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Let's talk HDTVs and gaming consoles
Lunker
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I'm surprised not to see a thread about this, seeing as how this is one of the most frequently asked questions I saw in G&T.
Anyway: I'm one of the teeming masses of people looking to pitch my SDTV for an HDTV this fall. I own a Wii and 360, and while I understand the difference between 480p/720p/1080i/1080p my knowledge goes little further beyond that. Ultimately I'm going to poke around this weekend and eyeball a lot of sets, but I also know that store displays are very poorly set up, too.
So I have a whole bunch of questions, and I know a bunch of other people will, too.
1) I'm looking at the 37" to 42" inch range. Should I remotely care about going up for a 1080p set? Note that I play my 360 on an SD set and I still think it looks beautiful, and my existing TV doesn't even do component. I've been rocking S-video for about 6 years now.
2) I know that 720p versus 1080i is kind of a big debate, but if a TV description says the set is "720p native" and doesn't mention 1080i at all, does that mean it can't handle a 1080i signal? Or that it just converts the signal and displays it in 720?
3) Contrast ratio: Is this something I should honestly care about, or is this delving into nitpick territory?
4) I know this is kind of a YMMV question, but: What brands should I be looking for/avoiding? I know that the Olevia LCDs ets a lot of love for being a good budget option; on the flip side, I've heard a lot of people say the Samsung LCDs are excellent, and Sony Bravia LCDs are top-notch but pricey as hell. Are these generally correct?
Anyway: I'm one of the teeming masses of people looking to pitch my SDTV for an HDTV this fall. I own a Wii and 360, and while I understand the difference between 480p/720p/1080i/1080p my knowledge goes little further beyond that. Ultimately I'm going to poke around this weekend and eyeball a lot of sets, but I also know that store displays are very poorly set up, too.
So I have a whole bunch of questions, and I know a bunch of other people will, too.
1) I'm looking at the 37" to 42" inch range. Should I remotely care about going up for a 1080p set? Note that I play my 360 on an SD set and I still think it looks beautiful, and my existing TV doesn't even do component. I've been rocking S-video for about 6 years now.
2) I know that 720p versus 1080i is kind of a big debate, but if a TV description says the set is "720p native" and doesn't mention 1080i at all, does that mean it can't handle a 1080i signal? Or that it just converts the signal and displays it in 720?
3) Contrast ratio: Is this something I should honestly care about, or is this delving into nitpick territory?
4) I know this is kind of a YMMV question, but: What brands should I be looking for/avoiding? I know that the Olevia LCDs ets a lot of love for being a good budget option; on the flip side, I've heard a lot of people say the Samsung LCDs are excellent, and Sony Bravia LCDs are top-notch but pricey as hell. Are these generally correct?
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Granted, you will NOT see any useful change on the Wii, since it will only do max 480p iirc.
Either way, the jump from ye olde S-video to 720p, much less 1080p will blow your mind.
As to contrast ratio, I find many of their ratings to be complete and total bullshit. The only way to really check out a TV is to go 'audition' it, like you would a good pair of speakers. BB or CC are great places to check out TVs; go early on a Sat/Sun, and ask one of the salesdudes to change inputs on them for you, to get a wide variety of views.
Also: Check out teh Black Friday thread, there's a lot of different TV's up for sale on the day after Thanksgiving (US), and if you're looking for a new set, that is the day to pick it up.
On brands, Sony, Samsung and Panasonic are the three high end brands with Sharp and Toshiba being slightly below. The thing to see though is if you can actually see the difference and if it actually bothers between these brands and the lower quality ones.
Note that most of the displayed tvs are going to be eye level for a standing individual.
I cannot stress this enough. Your 360 will scale to whatever the TV's resolution is. Your Wii will not; it's only outputting 480p at most. So test it. Test some 480p stuff and some 480i stuff. Some HDTVs will have good scalers in them that will display a 480p signal on a 720p panel without fucking it up. Some do not, and will make your Wii look terrible and possibly even add input lag. Some HDTVs have good deinterlacers, to make 480i content look decent. Some do not, and might not display old 240p games (NeoGeo VC games, ICO, and anything on any system older than the Dreamcast) at all!
So test this stuff. This isn't anything you can find on a spec sheet.
I game on a 46 inch 1080i CRT with no lag and when I go to my cousin's house and her XBR2 it's quite a different experience.
I'm going through the same quandary as the OP, and am currently looking at this: Sony Bravia 40" LCD
My buddy got one last December, and it is fucking gorgeous with both the PS3 and the Wii.
For example, one set may be 720p native resolution and will scale a 1080i picture to that resolution, and many times it will actually look pretty good. However, another TV might not do as good a job. My TV is rear-projection CRT, and it actually has 3 native resolutions - 480i, 480p, and 1080i. Though it's a bit bigger and bulkier, the fact that it can display all three of these natively is a big plus for me, because I hate dealing with the "lag" issues in games and stuff that come from scaling. It also means I can play my Wii in 480p natively without worrying about scaling and stuff. One downside to my TV however is that, when it sees a 720p resolution, it downscales it to 480p instead of upscaling it to 1080i. Personally I can live with it, because the only 720p stuff I watch is on Satellite and my receiver upscales it to 1080i for me so it still looks pretty good, but ymmv. So basically, just figure out what your needs are and what matters most to you resolution-wise, and factor that into your decision.
As for the 720p vs 1080i debate, it's true that there isn't a whole lot of difference between the two. There are small pros and cons between the two you should take into consideration however. 1080i is very good at having an extremely high level of detail. When watching normal Television programs, I personally prefer 1080i because it just looks so nice. Discovery HD is very impressive. On the downside though, the fact that it is interlaced means that you will occasionally see interlacing artifacts, especially when there's a lot of motion on screen. 720p on the other hand, though it has a lower resolution, is progressive scan and therefore handles fast on-screen motion very well. This translates well to stuff like video games and sporting events (probably one reason ESPN uses 720p, although 1080i still looks fantastic for sporting events). Most people I've talked to who have played games natively in both 1080i and 720p prefer the latter because of how well it handles motion and stuff.
So basically, the bottom line is that which one you choose will depend on what you'll be using it more. If you'll be using it mostly for video games, a 720p set would be a wise choice. If you'll mostly just be watching TV on it, 1080i would probably be a good bet. However, all that said, the differences between the two are still very small, almost non-existant to many people. Whichever way you go, you'll probably be safe.
As for 1080p - well, I don't have much experience in that area, so someone else will have to chime in on that one. I personally don't see it being worth the money just yet, but I'm sure someone will have a different perspective.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
You, kind sir, are a God amongst men. Much thanks. Now I don't need to worry much since I know 720p and 1080i will not have that big an issue with my 360.
Oculus: TheBigDookie | XBL: Dook | NNID: BigDookie
And I wouldn't have it any other way, I loves my 55" RP-CRT Mitsubishi (WS-55513). The black levels on it are so much better than any LCD or Plasma I've looked at, although a couple of higher-end DLP's I've seen can beat it.
I don't have much to add to the discussion, at least when it comes to addressing Lunker's original post. One thing I would recommend though is to get your set professionally calibrated once you get it home.
Looking at a TV on the sales floor, odds are the contrast and brightness are almost all the way up and the color settings are way off, this is done to give the screen more pop under flourecent lighting and to draw the eye easier. However it tends to distort the picture, and the colors burn way too hot, meaning you aren't seeing things as you should. This can espeically play havoc with subtle flesh tones and makes most blacks look a little grey.
Getting a good ISF certified technician to come over and calibrate your set for the viewing enviornment can pay major dividends with a new HDTV, whether you're a gamer or just all around videophile (like I am). It can be a little expensive (2-400 dollars depending on the tech and TV), but it is very much worth it, IMO, if you want the most out of your new TV. I didn't have mine calibrate till I had it home for a couple of months, but there was a dramatic difference to the picture quality (especially black levels) after having it done. It's a must if you plan on doing much movie watching to go along with your gaming.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
Eh, that's generally not really too important. You can run test patterns from your computer and calibrate it pretty well on your own; $400 to have somebody come over and fuck around with your TV settings is a bit much.
I more or less had to, as my TV had some major geometry and overscan problems as well, which became apparent when I began doing some gaming on it. I wasn't about to mess with the technician's menus on a $2000+ TV.
Luckily the guy I had come out was covered by my warranty with Mitsubishi, so I only had to pay about 50 bucks to have it done (basically that was just to have him come out, the actual calibration was free, because of the severity of the problem out of the box.).
But you're right, for simple color and contrast adjustments, some basic test patterns or something like AVIA would work. Although black levels are a bit trickier, and normally require some fiddling with the programmers menus.
~ Buckaroo Banzai
Only one bad (could be good) thing about the TV. The glass is broke thanks to the magical spin my wife put on her bolling ball. Good, because if it was LCD/Plasma the fucker wouldn't even turn on (its really not that bad tho).
"Was cursing, in broken english at his team, and at our team. made fun of dead family members and mentioned he had sex with a dog."
"Hope he dies tbh but a ban would do."
Look at the sets in person, stand as far away as you expect to sit, and see for yourself.
Here's a tip for you on brands: Samsung makes great LCD HDTVs, but Emersons are cheaper and they get their LCD panels from Samsung. I very nearly bought an Emerson, but Wal-Mart jacked up the price at the last moment and I went with a comparable Westinghouse that was on sale at Best Buy.
If you don't mind standing in lines in the wee hours of the morning you might want to hit up some black friday deals.