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TorrentSpy Meets The Gavel
AngelHedgie
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
As you may have heard, TorrentSpy just got smacked in court, as the judge ruled that they had willfully destroyed data.
So, what does this mean? Well, the big thing is that it better defines e-discovery responsibilities. A large part of what got TorrentSpy in trouble is that they constantly thought they could avoid the responsibilities of maintaining relevant information by too clever by half schemes, like claiming that they couldn't release IP logs because they only stored IPs in RAM. That got shot down by the judge.
One thing that you'll probably see is privacy policies getting reworded. This is because one argument that was forwarded in this case is what happens when you have a conflict between your privacy policy and your legal responsibilities. Expect to see codicils added to many to allow an exemption for e-discovery requirements.
What saddens me, however, is the fact that the TorrentSpy people don't seem to get exactly in how much hot water they're in:
So, what does this mean? Well, the big thing is that it better defines e-discovery responsibilities. A large part of what got TorrentSpy in trouble is that they constantly thought they could avoid the responsibilities of maintaining relevant information by too clever by half schemes, like claiming that they couldn't release IP logs because they only stored IPs in RAM. That got shot down by the judge.
One thing that you'll probably see is privacy policies getting reworded. This is because one argument that was forwarded in this case is what happens when you have a conflict between your privacy policy and your legal responsibilities. Expect to see codicils added to many to allow an exemption for e-discovery requirements.
What saddens me, however, is the fact that the TorrentSpy people don't seem to get exactly in how much hot water they're in:
He doesn't get that the judge just ruled that they can't prove their case because of TorrentSpy's misconduct. That all that's left is for the studios to prove damages. That in reality, there's no way the appeals court is going to touch this one. It's just something that makes me shake my head."It's not like they proved their case. It's not like they proved that TorrentSpy infringed copyright," said Justin Bunnell, founder of TorrentSpy. "I think we have a lot of grounds for appeal and we'll pursue it vigorously."
XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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Still, though, it's obvious that these guys are a public tracker.
Then any users caught after that point deserve whatever they get.
MWO: Adamski
This is the point that the judge made when she ordered them to begin IP logging - that they were bound by laws regarding discovery to do so. That's one of the reasons I laughed and cried at the geek outcry at that particular decision - what she had said is that being stored in RAM alone is not enough of a defense.
They would be get out squeeky clean, then once it was over start back up again. The RMCAA or whomever would be free to begin another suit, however at a certain point I'm pretty sure TorrentSpy could just start counter suing.
MWO: Adamski
Way to destroy any shred of credibility, guys.
If they had played it straight, and if they in fact had never logged ip addresses instead of simply pretending they didn't, they might've had a better chance at making the case that the ip addresses weren't easily discoverable.
If you could prove that you were doing it for performance reasons, and that just happened to leave you in an unloggable position, you're far more likely to get some leeway.
But judges HATE when you build a policy around destruction of something that any reasonable person would foresee as being evidence in a case.
Well, one thing that I'm seeing a lot of geeks not getting is that a LOT of material that would be considered "transitory" - memos, notes, etc. - can get caught up in discovery and need to be retained. And there's no difference with computers. TorrentSpy thought they could just say "Well, we only keep it in RAM", not getting that said argument, transplanted into any other type of scenario, would not fly.
Again, it's geeks thinking they're smarter than everyone else, then crying when they get smacked for it.
There are Some Geeks who are very much of the opinion that if you slash and burn quickly, the cops can't prove anything. Sadly, they seem unaware that the act of slashing and burning everything on purpose leaves you legally actionable under a completely different ruleset.
Log everything, understand any legal statutes on how long you need to retain it, and cover your own ass. It's pretty much IT's job in life, because if your management ever wants to block you or threatens you over a legally required retention period, they fully intend to throw you to the wolves for not following it later.
edit: I also have a problem with the lawyers telling people that email is discoverable, and you shouldn't talk about your illegal/shady dealings in email. Why is THAT the advice, when the logical legal advice lawyers publicly give should be Don't Do Anything Illegal And You Won't Have Discovery Issues, hard stop.
/incredibly stupid argument I saw in IRC