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Help Me Buy A Car
CyBeRDeMoN23
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
What I have: 2000 Nissan Sentra with a broken A/C. Some scratches from the previous owner. Bluebooks for
2-3k.
What I want: 2008 Toyota Camry. Estimated price for a model that contains me desired features: $25,135. Would like to keep the payment at $400 or less.
My situation: Decent paying job, fresh out of college, and never purchased a car before. I really don't like salesmen and not sure how well I can negotiate prices for things. Any help and tips are appreciated.
2-3k.
What I want: 2008 Toyota Camry. Estimated price for a model that contains me desired features: $25,135. Would like to keep the payment at $400 or less.
My situation: Decent paying job, fresh out of college, and never purchased a car before. I really don't like salesmen and not sure how well I can negotiate prices for things. Any help and tips are appreciated.
CyBeRDeMoN23 on
0
Posts
How is your savings? How is your credit? How long have you had your job?
Good.
Excellent.
6 months.
I don't mean that in a "Toyota Camrys" suck way, they're excellent cars (just boring as hell) - but look at something cheaper.
Try a used Accord, Acura TL, BMW 3 Series, Audi A4, or used Camry. Aim for 20k, your loan will be much easier to target 400/month and you can get a hell of a lot more car, and a more FUN car, for the money.
Seconded. I bought a new car shortly after getting my first "real world job," and there has not been a day that has gone by that I haven't regretted the decision. The monthly payment is horrendous ($338/month for a car that costed ~14k), and the insurance cost is nearly triple what I was paying on my old car (a point that is often forgotten when you go to buy a new car). And now, a year later, I have really nothing to show for paying more money. My wife wanted to buy new, and I got caught up in her excitement about it... it is a lesson learned the hard way. Never again.
Getting a car that is even one year - ONE YEAR - older than the new model can save you as much as 50% of the price of the car. Many of these used cars still have factory warranties and other goodies. And you'll see a much more reasonable sticker price. And you'll generally also see a significant reduction in the cost of your car insurance as well.
If you insist on getting a new car, don't buy the following:
* Extended Warranty offers (you can always get them later if desired)
* "Special" insurances (Gap insurance, etc... These are basically schemes to get them to pull more money from you)
* Additional components (such as stereos, floor mats, etc... these generally cost MUCH less if you buy them from an actual store instead of from the dealership).
Also, don't let them make you pay a dollar over MSRP. If they tell you that they need to charge you above MSRP for ANY reason (no matter what excuse they make about things like product rarity, high demand, or other nonsense), walk away immediately. They think you're an idiot, and they're hoping to fuck you over. Go to another dealership, and tell them that you just walked away from a dealer that wouldn't offer the car at MSRP.
In truth, if you're skilled at bartering you can get it for well below MSRP... but you have to play a difficult dance when you do that. If you at least get it for MSRP, you're not getting totally fucked.
Also, shop around for the best car loan APR, and bring that figure in with you when you go to negotiate with the dealer for the car loan. If you can get them to beat it, take it. If they refuse to beat or match the APR you found, get the car loan you found with the best APR and come to them with a check from that loan company. Don't let them fool you into thinking you HAVE to use their loan program.
Luckily, I did the above (not paying over MSRP, walking away from dealerships if needed, and shopping for the best APR I could get), or I'd have been even more screwed over than I ended up being. Most car dealerships are full of sharks, and if they smell blood in the water they're going to tear you to pieces. Always be willing to walk away, and do consider a used car if at all possible. Don't fall for the new car fallacy like I did.
Sorry, didn't mean to scare you. =( But it is definitively better to get even a slightly used car. If you don't mind it having a few thousand miles, you can save so much money and headaches. Every time I get in my stupid little Scion it reminds me of how much of an easily swayed idiot I was to buy the car new instead of just getting last year's model for half price. I've made some irrational decisions in my life (as most people do, especially when they're young), but I consider the purchase of that car to be the single most irrational thing I've done up to this point in my life. When all's said and done I'm paying ~600 bucks a month in insurance and loan payments for a car that, had I the foresight to get the prior years' model, I'd likely be paying less than 300 a month for. And now that the car's a year and a half old anyways, it's kind of like paying a 300 dollar a month premium for five years to have the privilege of having a new car for a single year. (kicks self repeatedly)
Hopefully all this info helps.
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showpost.php?p=1144910&postcount=4
http://forums.slickdeals.net/showpost.php?p=1327104&postcount=66
The 'Holdback' thing that they mention is what makes me suggest going with a Japanese car company, as Toyota and Honda have a 0% Holdback.
Also, to defeat the cyberdemon, shoot at it until it dies!
If you're still considering new, I would definitely get internet quotes - EVERY single one I got was so far below the initial quote you get in the dealership it's not even funny. In my case, they were basically right around the numbers you get if you're a COSTCO member and go through them, or something like that.
But yeah, your price will likely drop a good 5k going a year or two used... I'm paying ~500/month on a 2 year loan (0% financing), which is really only doable because my parents are helping
*edit
My insurance rates on a new car aren't too bad, considering that I'm still 24... though I have a few discount kind of things (like everyone does I'm sure)
1) Don't buy a new car. This is something I firmly believe in after making all kinds of financial mistakes in this department. Rule of thumb is, if you can't afford the payments on a 4 year term, you can't afford it.
2) The Camry is not as reliable as it used to be. Consumer Reports has downgraded it over the last couple of years. Toyota got cocky.
3) Do all negotiations that you can over the phone and the internet. Keep out of their court for as LONG as possible.
Have someone sitting by a computer at home.
If they give you a quote, call them, have them give you the KBB value for the car, and then haggle down from there.
"Sorry, but that's still pretty high. Knock off 2k if you want to talk," said as you get up to leave.
Also, get a Subaru.
CarMax is good if you don't want to haggle. They don't pressure you, and even though they say you don't haggle, you can sometimes knock another 500-1,000 off the price.
As for cars, usual rules apply. Don't buy the VW Jetta or Rabbit in the US because they're made poorly in Mexico, Hondas and Toyotas are most reliable, Subarus are just as good but more expensive and better suited for the north due to AWD and snow.
Don't discount the American cars now, though. 85% of the vehicles aren't as bulletproof as japanese models, but they aren't going to crap out on you like in the '90s. Except Pontiacs. Poor, poor Pontiac.
I disagree with the VW comment above - VW's have been made in Mexico for the American market for the last twenty years and while they have their problems, they're inherent of the model and not the plant. I've seen people drive Jetta's into the ground at 300,000 miles and Fords fall to pieces at 130,000. And the other way around, for that matter.
I'd say just find a model you'd like to get into and start keeping your eyes peeled. I'm not going to say it's the best car you can buy, but I decided on a 2000+ A4 six months ago and nabbed a 2001 for 11,500 with 22,000 miles on it. Loan works out to about 210/month .. no warranty, but at that price, I'm more than happy to spring for $500 in repairs every couple of months.
Does it have expenses? Sure. Does it give you trouble sometimes? Sure.
But you save a lot of time. You don't have to schedule your life around bus schedules, or other people (who drive you around, or you carpool with). It gives you a lot of freedom. You can go anywhere you want any time you want. Personally it's great, and it's worth the money.
The only times when I fucking hate having a car is when I'm looking for parking, which is in short supply in Seattle (ask Thanatos, he knows).
Well, one (and probably the main) argument would be if you find you want something that's undergone a major (and much better) revision in the last year or two, at which point you probably won't get a good deal unless the car's been driven a lot...
I dunno, you always hear people throw around that "value depreciates 50% when you drive it off the lot" number, but when I was actually looking around it was more like a 2k difference on a last-model year used model, which while nice is not exactly so huge that it's worth the extra hassle of buying a used car (notably, if you have good credit you probably won't get the 0%/huge cash back kinds of financing discounts that a new car dealer will do for you).
I mean, there's a level of money-spending between "i'm a piss-poor collage student and I want a used corolla for $6,000" and "I want a spanking new BMW" where I'm not crying myself to sleep that I spent 21.5k on a new mazda 3 hatchback
I can't imagine spending 25k on a Camry
Don't get me wrong; Camrys are good and reliable cars
But Camrys are the plain vanilla of the car universe
If your existing Nissan is running OK, stick with that for the time being
A honda is 20k new, 18k 1 yr old 16k 2 yrs old, etc. in my experience.
Seriously, I found Nissan to be pretty reliable overall. The new Altimas I think look really great. I bought a Sentra SER just a couple of months ago brand new and have no regrets about the purchase. To me, the knowledge that my car won't break down and won't need a mechanic every three months is enough to balance out the cost.
I don't know of any car that loses that much value that quickly, not even the shittiest domestic.
Car payments are not worth it. Keep your current car now. Save your money then sell your current car and buy a nice used car with cash.
Fully owning your own used car is more satisfying than overpaying every month for a quickly depreciating new car.
Top 10 Brands: Best Resale Value 2008
1. VW 48.1
2. BMW 45.6
3. Acura 45.4
4. Honda 45.2
5. Porsche 44.9
6. Subaru 44.4
7. Lexus 43.2
8. Infiniti 43.1
9. Audi 42.6
10. Toyota 41.4
Bottom 10 Brands: Worst Resale Value 2008
1. Suzuki 27.6
2. Kia 30.4
3. GMC 32.5
4. Mercury 32.5
5. Dodge 32.5
6. Chrysler 32.5
7. Lincoln 33.3
8. Jeep 33.3
9. Ford 33.8
10. Jaguar 34.1
Source
See, while I generally agree with this sentiment, when you juxtapose it with the post directly above it you get a slightly different feel, which fed into my decision - yeah, new cars depreciate (like anything else in life), but I get a sense now that the pendulum has swung the other way now - people have realized that buying used cars is better, so now a GOOD 1 year old used car (i.e., most likely a reliable popular Japanese model) has so much demand that you wind up saving practically nothing, and losing some of the ancillary benefits of buying a new car (probably most specifically that you can get better financing and better (free or purchased) warranties)
I mean, if it were true that you could easily find a used 2005/6/7 model for half off because someone drove it a thousand miles in 6 months, no-one would ever buy a new car at all; for a couple thousand dollars, I (personally) would rather have a totally new car that has no risk the idiot previous owner lit it on fire or hid a dead rat in the seat or some stupid thing (yeah, ok, those were idiotic and unrealistic extremes, but you get the point)
Whatever you decide to do, good luck... the one thing I do recommend is that you find a car that you really enjoy having (especially if you're going to buy and keep it for years) - I really was tempted to save a couple thousand and get a Civic or Corolla, but the truth is that when I drove the Mazda 3 I immediately knew it wasn't worth begrudgingly saving some money to be less happy for 5 years... I'm not saying to get a Ferrari, but in every price range there are (reliable & good) cars that just fit an individual a lot better than others
*edit
That table's pretty interesting, but if it's really FIVE years, that's a little less of a big deal - hell, compared to stuff like PC/TV's/etc, being able to sell it after 5 years for 50% is not bad at all
Yeah, that's definitely very true; I was just speaking from my perspective as someone who knows jack shit about cars, so I would be buying a used car from a dealership anyway, which is like buying used games for $5 cheaper than new at gamestop
The engines for these cars are French. Well, actually French and Japanese. For the newest generations, it's an inline five cylinder sourced from Renault, and is no longer the 2 liter monstrosity that used to power them. VW is coming back around and is making improvements so they are worth a look. I for one plan on checking out the new TDI cars 4 or 5 years from now.
Mmm, diesel.
They were udder shit. Like Volvo 850 shit.