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Given a post-doc offer, would like some perspective
Post-doc scientist
Registered User new member
Registered User new member
I was offered a post-doc position at a good university and it sounds like the work would be something I am interested in. However, this offer came much sooner than I was expecting and they want to know my acceptance soon. I am a bit torn because this was not a part of the US was aiming to move to and I am finishing up my materials to reach out to other labs that would be in a more desirable part of the country for me. My goal with any post-doc is to go there for a year, do some good work, and then go into industry in my field after getting some more experience and building a larger network. My questions are as follows:
1. Is it typical to be given an offer without any indicating of stipend, benefits, or an outline of funding (such as being a TA or teaching a class)? I feel like this is something I should know before accepting.
2. Would asking for a few weeks between my Ph.D. and post-doc be acceptable? Right now I am pretty burnt out finishing everything and I would like to visit some family members who I have not seen in years due to my studies.
3. If I were to accept this position and given a more desirable offer, how egregious would it be to back out of my first offer? I would obviously let them know as soon as possible and and be professional, but I know this would not be viewed well. On the other hand, I feel that I need to put myself and my wants first.
If anyone has any experience with a post-doc position I would appreciate hearing your stories.
1. Is it typical to be given an offer without any indicating of stipend, benefits, or an outline of funding (such as being a TA or teaching a class)? I feel like this is something I should know before accepting.
2. Would asking for a few weeks between my Ph.D. and post-doc be acceptable? Right now I am pretty burnt out finishing everything and I would like to visit some family members who I have not seen in years due to my studies.
3. If I were to accept this position and given a more desirable offer, how egregious would it be to back out of my first offer? I would obviously let them know as soon as possible and and be professional, but I know this would not be viewed well. On the other hand, I feel that I need to put myself and my wants first.
If anyone has any experience with a post-doc position I would appreciate hearing your stories.
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1. No, that's very unusual. It'd be like being given a job offer and being expected to sign on it without knowing how much the salary is. In fact, in many ways a post-doc is closer to a job than an academic program, so definitely you should know how much it pays.
2. That's acceptable. Hell, the last post-doc I hired asked for a few months. But like I said, I didn't have any other applicants, so he could negotiate what he wanted.
3. Much like quitting a job, if you give notice ahead of time and wrap all the work up, it's fine.
1. I get that as a tentative hey I want you to come work for me type offer but would expect a formal offer letter with salary etc before requiring acceptance. I can see if its a hot shot type thing where space is limited and if you want to work with me you must accept as is. but still weird
2. totally fine to set start date after a bit of time, especially if you have to move or do other things. don't be like I need a year but weeks to month is probably fine. will vary based on funding though so keep that in mind.
3. I think as long as you don't actually start then quit it is fine. But I think if you are up front and say you are waiiting for a final offer from other places you interviewed for it should be ok. but again, if funding has to start at a certain point, time is crunched.
also keep in mind, this is someone you want to build a relationship with, if they are weird about hiring and not flexible about things, that raises a lot of flags imo.
As a current post-doc -- if they're pressuring you to hurry up and accept their offer now without exploring other options or knowing the details, that probably says a lot about the way the lab is run day to day. Consider if you want to deal with that.
I think you'd be best served by pushing back now and asking for the time off and a clear, formal offer. I think you're well within bounds to ask for that. On the other hand, accepting an offer with the concious intention of bailing if you get something that looks better kind of cedes the moral high ground.
Be vigilant and ensure your own self-care and interest in cases like this. No matter where you go, you are likely to get worked into the ground, so be absolutely sure that you do everything you can to preserve yourself. Know what your compensation is going to be. Look into the University/Institute's medical coverage, too (When I did my post-doc, the university played some shady games with my employment classification, calling me a contractor, so I basically had no medical coverage for three years).
Absolutely take some time to recover before starting your post-doc. You deserve it, you've earned it, and after all you've likely gone through, you need it.
A final note about this, too: If your plan is to do a post-doc for a year, and then go to industry, be very careful about that. In my field professors expect two, if not three, years of work out of a post-doc. If a professor expects more from you than a year, that might limit your ability to get into a lab, but more importantly it might limit your ability to leave a lab. Never underestimate the ability of a prof to dangle the rec letter over your head as a carrot, and threaten to write a bad one in order to keep you in limbo longer.
This isn't meant to scare you, but just to say that you should be careful about accepting a position rashly. It's not something you want to rush into, or else you might wind up miserable for three or more years. I know I did.
In my opinion, you want to look for two things: 1.) A lab doing the kind of research you are passionate about. Somewhere that the work is going to keep you motivated outside of any other factor because it's what you're keenly interested in, even if the results are frustrating. And 2.) A lab with people you appreciate and can work with. Look for a lab culture that fits your style, including a professor's style that's compatible with you.
I STONGLY recommend visiting labs before accepting a post-doc, if you can. It's rare, but if you have the opportunity to reach out to a lab and give them a "job talk", basically giving them a presentation of your graduate work, you're not only going to have the opportunity to impress the lab, you're also going to have a chance to actually see what the lab is like. That can be tricky, given scheduling and travel, but it can very much be worth it as opposed to accepting the position sight-unseen. At the very least, see if you can't reach out to some of the current grad students via email to ask their experiences and set your expectations.
Those are some asshole profs you met. My last post-doc quit 6 months into a 3-year position, and I wrote him a glowing reference letter. It never even occurred to me to write him a bad reference letter. If he gets a position elsewhere, it's still one of my post-docs going up in the world.
A bit more about my situation, I have been applying for industry jobs since about August and I have not had much luck so far, so now I have been looking at post-doc positions to try and build more experience and wait for my papers to get published. One factor that has made my job search more difficult is that I want to stay in a certain portion of the country as my only parent's health is poor and I do not get much support from other family members to help them. At my current location, it is not feasible for me to make a weekend trip to help them or visit during the week, so I was hoping to be within at least a 4-5 hour drive for my job, preferably closer. This post-doc offer I have been given is on the other side of the country, so part of me feels that I could maybe do a year then try and find a job closer, but I would much rather pursue a job or post-doc that is closer to home, hence the waffling on accepting or not. If this post-doc offer were in the area of the country I would want to live in, I would take it in a heartbeat and be willing to stay for a few years if everything goes well, but hearing they may screw me over has me concerned.
I have a friend who is in another lab that is in an ideal location and he likes it there, but I have not heard back from that professor in the past week. If this professor were to make me a post-doc offer I would probably take it over my first offer.
So yeah, a lot on my plate at the moment. I have told my advisor about my situation, but I think they have other concerns and may not be putting my goals first. I have been talking to a therapist and trying to take care of myself, I am just frustrated with the whole situation.
Edit: I am in the hard sciences for reference in the materials field. There are companies in the area I am looking at, but I have not had much luck.
Like I said, it's not always the case, but it's something to be aware of, and something to prepare for the possibility of.
And yeah, most professors in my field are just down and out passive-aggressive assholes. I've seen too many people get hurt.