Apple TV: Does anyone care?

starkruzr · January 2008

I've been thinking of getting a machine just for my television, for streaming from various other sources around the house.

It occurs to me that the AppleTV would be perfect for this, and at $199 for a refurb it seems like a pretty good deal. However, I'm really not happy with Apple's restrictions on the device, so I would definitely hack it upon getting it.

My question is: do you think it's worth getting just for hacking it (for arbitrary file playback, etc.), or are there better choices out there at this price-point if I'm not married to an Apple solution?

The Reverend Dr Galactus · January 2008

While feature-wise there's no contest against a Windows MC, MythTV or XBMC box, the superior UI and tiny footprint are pretty nice if you don't need to do DVR stuff. The problem is that making it do things other than play back iTunes content does require a bit of non-trivial hacking depending on which hack you're pursuing. You can actually get it to run desktop OS X though!

EggyToast · January 2008

With the update, it's still not "open" but it's definitely much better. As for having stuff around the house, it basically syncs to an available iTunes and will play and update based on that computer. Previously, you had to copy stuff over to it, which was pretty dumb.

For instance, I like having music in other rooms, but I have some playlists set up that are modified by how recently things are played. I can play my iPod around the house, and when I plug it into my computer it updates iTunes and itself. The Apple TV is essentially like that now, only it updates on the fly, as you're using it.

Similarly, instead of only syncing itself to another computer using iTunes, you can use it as a device to buy/rent shit. But it's more of a perk.

If you've already got a lot of your own content, see about getting it into iTunes. If iTunes will play it, the Apple TV will stream it. That's basically all it comes down to. I've dropped ripped DVDs into iTunes, converted to .avi files of some sort, and it'll play them just fine. It even offers to convert them to an iPod friendly format. I mean, it's a media library much more than a store. But getting them into iTunes is the biggie -- if you can't do that easily, or it doesn't fit with how you have all your shit, I don't think hacking will make it any easier.

xgalaxy · January 2008

EggyToast wrote: »

With the update, it's still not "open" but it's definitely much better. As for having stuff around the house, it basically syncs to an available iTunes and will play and update based on that computer. Previously, you had to copy stuff over to it, which was pretty dumb.

For instance, I like having music in other rooms, but I have some playlists set up that are modified by how recently things are played. I can play my iPod around the house, and when I plug it into my computer it updates iTunes and itself. The Apple TV is essentially like that now, only it updates on the fly, as you're using it.

Similarly, instead of only syncing itself to another computer using iTunes, you can use it as a device to buy/rent shit. But it's more of a perk.

If you've already got a lot of your own content, see about getting it into iTunes. If iTunes will play it, the Apple TV will stream it. That's basically all it comes down to. I've dropped ripped DVDs into iTunes, converted to .avi files of some sort, and it'll play them just fine. It even offers to convert them to an iPod friendly format. I mean, it's a media library much more than a store. But getting them into iTunes is the biggie -- if you can't do that easily, or it doesn't fit with how you have all your shit, I don't think hacking will make it any easier.

My biggest issue with it right now is that I have a NAS with my iTunes library on it and I can't use the AppleTV to just stream stuff off of it. It wants to sync with it instead. I don't want to store my stuff on the AppleTV, thats what I have a NAS for. I just don't understand why they limited the device like this.

Lewisham · January 2008

I think the clever money is getting a Mac Mini and hooking that up instead.

Azio · January 2008

Up until recently Apple TV was basically a $400 AV cable for your computer. It has some independent usefulness now, but only if you're cool with paying for shows and movies on iTunes, and never being able to watch those videos on another device, and having to constantly buy expensive Apple products from that day forth, and not being compatible with various leading formats like xvid.

The best thing to hook up to your TV is a plain old computer. You can do all kinds of awesome home theatre shit with even a cheap small-formfactor rig. Not to mention it would be endlessly more useful and compatible than what is essentially a gimped Mac.

Ronen · January 2008

Lewisham wrote: »

I think the clever money is getting a Mac Mini and hooking that up instead.

That's what I did. Couldn't be happier. I can watch upscaled DVDs, every format and filetype I want, stream music from any of my multiple computers and networked HDDs... next step is looking into DVR options (probably vial the HDHomeRun from Elgato). Sure, it's a little expensive, but it can do so much more. If you're not interested in the movie rentals (which it sounds like you're not) then a Mini is a pretty good option so long as you max out the RAM.

Another option is to go with a SFF PC... if Vista does one feature really well, it's the Media Center. If I wasn't running all Apple machines at home, I'd consider a small Vista Home Premium box as a HTPC.

mastman · January 2008

the problem with Apple TV is that you have to have an AppleTV from this day forth to ever play shit on your AppleTV.

I'm just so jaded by vendor format lock-ins

and watching movies on an iPod just never appealed to me so I've never considered downloading movies from iTunes.

starkruzr · January 2008

Azio wrote: »

Up until recently Apple TV was basically a $400 AV cable for your computer. It has some independent usefulness now, but only if you're cool with paying for shows and movies on iTunes, and never being able to watch those videos on another device, and having to constantly buy expensive Apple products from that day forth, and not being compatible with various leading formats like xvid.

The best thing to hook up to your TV is a plain old computer. You can do all kinds of awesome home theatre shit with even a cheap small-formfactor rig. Not to mention it would be endlessly more useful and compatible than what is essentially a gimped Mac.

Since I'm planning to hack it, I figured that the iTunes-lockin wasn't all that big of a deal, but I see where you're coming from there.

One of my other requirements that I forgot to mention is that the machine be extremely low-power, especially while it's not being used but is still available on the network. I thought that the Apple TV would fit this description well. I was also considering a mini-ATX machine with one of those super low-power desktop dual-core chips that Intel makes, but by the time you get into mini-ATX I think that might even be more expensive.

Thoughts?

Azio · January 2008

starkruzr wrote: »

Azio wrote: »

Up until recently Apple TV was basically a $400 AV cable for your computer. It has some independent usefulness now, but only if you're cool with paying for shows and movies on iTunes, and never being able to watch those videos on another device, and having to constantly buy expensive Apple products from that day forth, and not being compatible with various leading formats like xvid.

The best thing to hook up to your TV is a plain old computer. You can do all kinds of awesome home theatre shit with even a cheap small-formfactor rig. Not to mention it would be endlessly more useful and compatible than what is essentially a gimped Mac.

Since I'm planning to hack it, I figured that the iTunes-lockin wasn't all that big of a deal, but I see where you're coming from there.

One of my other requirements that I forgot to mention is that the machine be extremely low-power, especially while it's not being used but is still available on the network. I thought that the Apple TV would fit this description well. I was also considering a mini-ATX machine with one of those super low-power desktop dual-core chips that Intel makes, but by the time you get into mini-ATX I think that might even be more expensive.

Thoughts?

I think SFF PCs are pretty cheap, unless you're trying to game on it.

TheSonicRetard · January 2008

I'd recommend an old xbox honestly. Xbox MCE is pretty awesome.

Building a media PC is the absolute best option, however. I love mine.

tachyon · January 2008

I second the mini. Front Row 2 plays VIDEO_TS files withing the very slick interface (used to take a few tweaks to get that) The dvd player in Leopard is a big improvement, and I have a bluetooth keyboard for when I want to do a quick internet search, etc.

Problem is you pay 2x the money of the appletv, but for what you want, it seems like the mini or something from these guys for around $329 http://www.mvixusa.com/

bash · January 2008

The "vendor lock-in" on the AppleTV is pretty lightweight. The AppleTV plays MPEG-4 content, either stuff you've ripped yourself or protected content from the iTS. It's trivial to use an app like Handbrake to rip DVDs to MPEG-4 to play on the AppleTV. As is it has multiple modes, you can sync a library to it like an iPod or stream content from an iTunes library. I have iTunes with a ton of Handbrake-ripped content and it plays great on the AppleTV streaming over my 802.11g network. If most of your movies are DivX AVIs you'll have to transcode them to a real MPEG-4 file before playing them on the AppleTV (without hacking). With the forthcoming update you'll be able to buy content from iTS directly on the unit and then sync it back to iTunes (except rentals).

For the price you get pretty nice connectivity. The AppleTV supports component video, HDMI, analog stereo, and optical audio output. I have mine hooked up to my 32" HDTV via HDMI and it looks awesome.

I got mine about a year ago and it's served me pretty well. It's easy to set up even with it streaming from an iTunes library. I've bought some TV shows on iTunes but also have a lot of content I've ripped from my own DVDs and it all works fine. My iTunes library sits on an external drive and the AppleTV doesn't care. Since it's just streaming content from the iTunes library it doesn't matter where the actual files are located as long as iTunes can find them.

While the AppleTV does not fit everyone's ideals it's not some locked down box that can't do anything. I did have a Mac mini hooked up to my TV before the AppleTV but it was a pain in the ass since mine was a G4 and lacked a remote port. While you might say "a BT keyboard and mouse will be fine!" that will quickly pass. That problem might go away if you've got an Intel mini which does have a remote control.

xgalaxy · January 2008

How loud is the Mac mini and once setup how easy is it to operate with just the remote for doing things like listening to music and streaming movies off of a NAS?

EggyToast · January 2008

xgalaxy wrote: »

How loud is the Mac mini and once setup how easy is it to operate with just the remote for doing things like listening to music and streaming movies off of a NAS?

Mac mini is essentially silent. My wife has a G4 one and even though it's older, I can't imagine that aspect would change in the newer ones, since they haven't changed the fundamentals (slower HDD, cooler video card, etc.).

bash · January 2008

The newer Mac minis aren't really much louder than the G4 minis. The loudest thing on my G4 mini is the external hard drive spinning up. They use laptop hard drives which are a bit quieter than the typical 3.5" desktop drive.

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