Duos Lancea, a fantasy webcomic.

Heartlash · May 2008

I was kidding about the whole video games thing, couldn't resist.

I did start a web comic though, and would love to hear some feedback from you guys (particularly those of you who are much better at this than I am, you know who you are).

For starters, a little background: It's a fantasy set in a world of my creation losely oriented around the dark ages. This is also my first time trying anything like this, so don't expect it to be fantastic, though I have been working very hard and studying ways in which to improve. The comic/story is rooted in a website, which I hope you'll take a look at as well since I've attempted to integrate a few cool flash features into the presentation (right now there are a few places you can click on certain pages that will pull up short stories, historical fiction, and the like). Here are a few static pages:

Page 1:

Page 7 (most recent):

I'm really pretty proud of where it is right now, considering the first thing I ever did regarding it looked like, well, this:

Also, please tell me about any bad habits I have, as I have no real formal art training (just a few courses as electives, etc).

Thanks.

Mustang · May 2008

I don't have the time right now to provide you with a detailed critique so I'll just jump on the main points. Draw life studies, draw a LOT of life studies, your anatomy and sense of form need work, in turn your charachters appear flat, static and lifeless. Your colouring completely ignores the use of values. Formal training or not, you do need to study art, it doesn't just come naturally, otherwise cave painting would be the pinacle of our artistic endevours.

To be honest, I think you've bitten off more than you can chew with this one. You've gone gung-ho into a full blown comic without getting a grip on the basics and I think you'll find at the end of the day that you would've been better off investing your time in life studies and the like before jumping into this.

I can appreciate that may sting a bit, as I can tell you have invested a lot of time in this comic. But remember we're all here to help you and with the subject matter you're covering the quality of the art really needs to be spectacular.

Heartlash · May 2008

That's entirely fair. I have been doing life studies and will continue to do so. I enjoy working on the comic, though, so I probably won't scrap it (especially since the story involves a lot of traditional prose, a medium in which my skills are more developed).

In all honesty, though, I've learned a lot by doing this purely BECAUSE it's unreferenced (as in, I'm not simply drawing what I see directly in front of me, even though I'm using references for objects/forms such as the skulls on page 4). I tend to do pretty well at live model drawing, but I have a lot of trouble with dynamic stuff, etc. As I progress with this I hope to push those boundaries more and more.

Plus I've learned a shit ton about coloring just because this is the first opportunity I've given myself to really work on it.

That said, I think my next step will be to pick up some books by Bammes and Hogarth and try to integrate what I learn into future pages.

Oh, and here's a quick example of how my life drawing stuff usually turns out (note, this is actually from a photo ref, most of my life drawing is on a 24" pad which I can't fit on to my scanner):

Mustang · May 2008

I tend to do pretty well at live model drawing, but I have a lot of trouble with dynamic stuff, etc.

http://www.posemaniacs.com/

^Awesome practice, I try to do 2-3 quick sketches a day.

Heartlash · May 2008

Ooooo, tyty. I've been trying to remember the url for that site since it came up here a few months ago.

Druhim · May 2008

As far as the writing, you're relying heavily on purple prose. You're basically using far too many words to say very little of any significance. It's like you're trying to make what you're saying much more important and interesting by dressing it up with supposedly significant details that we really don't care much about and you could instead express much more concisely. Looking over your writing in chapter 1, you do the same thing but you also display a lack of understanding about how people actually interact. You spend a whole paragraph telling us Edgar is stupid, but strong. Then supposedly based on his strength alone he becomes a lieutenant and guardian of the queen just because he won a tournament? News flash, people don't get promoted in armies just because they're big and strong, they get promoted because they display leadership skills. Because they need to lead men. Also the rank of lieutenant is typically a junior command position, which seems an odd rank for someone who is directly responsible for guarding the royalty and answers to no one except the royalty.

So your writing is very boring and unbelievable because stuff like this displays a very naive view of how the world actually works. On top of that you're using far too many words to tell us something that really isn't that interesting to begin with. A deadly combination.

Heartlash · May 2008

Druhim wrote: »

Then supposedly based on his strength alone he becomes a lieutenant and guardian of the queen just because he won a tournament?

It's meant to be a ceremonial position. The tournament victory grants public favor and fame to whoever inherits the post. It involves little to no leadership and exists pretty much to a: intimidate anyone who'd try to mess with the Queen and b: look pretty.

As for your other comments, they are noted, but I disagree with a few things. The second paragraph tells us much more about Edgar than him being "stupid, but strong." It gives brief scope to his life and introduces setting (i.e. he's been in the military, been educated by a tutor, and was raised by his mother, all of whom were crappy to him). It also introduces Claustrum, and allows the reader to learn a little about the society through Edgar.

That said, I will try to be less superfluous with future writing.

Druhim · May 2008

Heartlash wrote: »

Druhim wrote: »

Then supposedly based on his strength alone he becomes a lieutenant and guardian of the queen just because he won a tournament?

It's meant to be a ceremonial position. The tournament victory grants public favor and fame to whoever inherits the post. It involves little to no leadership and exists pretty much to a: intimidate anyone who'd try to mess with the Queen and b: look pretty.

As for your other comments, they are noted, but I disagree with a few things. The second paragraph tells us much more about Edgar than him being "stupid, but strong." It gives brief scope to his life and introduces setting (i.e. he's been in the military, been educated by a tutor, and was raised by his mother, all of whom were crappy to him). It also introduces Claustrum, and allows the reader to learn a little about the society through Edgar.

That said, I will try to be less superfluous with future writing.

It's still not believable that simply winning a tourney would get him such a position. Also, the background on his life that you provide is pretty boring. You've provided little to nothing to hook most readers into continuing to read, even if you write more concisely. So you've told us that a bunch of people in his life were mean to him and think he's stupid but you've failed to give me a reason to care that this happened to him apart from all the other people who have grown up being mistreated by those around them. At the core, what you're trying to say just doesn't seem compelling at all. It comes across as trite.

Out of curiosity, what are your reading habits?

Heartlash · May 2008

Druhim wrote: »

Heartlash wrote: »

Druhim wrote: »

Then supposedly based on his strength alone he becomes a lieutenant and guardian of the queen just because he won a tournament?

It's meant to be a ceremonial position. The tournament victory grants public favor and fame to whoever inherits the post. It involves little to no leadership and exists pretty much to a: intimidate anyone who'd try to mess with the Queen and b: look pretty.

As for your other comments, they are noted, but I disagree with a few things. The second paragraph tells us much more about Edgar than him being "stupid, but strong." It gives brief scope to his life and introduces setting (i.e. he's been in the military, been educated by a tutor, and was raised by his mother, all of whom were crappy to him). It also introduces Claustrum, and allows the reader to learn a little about the society through Edgar.

That said, I will try to be less superfluous with future writing.

It's still not believable that simply winning a tourney would get him such a position. Also, the background on his life that you provide is pretty boring. You've provided little to nothing to hook most readers into continuing to read, even if you write more concisely. So you've told us that a bunch of people in his life were mean to him and think he's stupid but you've failed to give me a reason to care that this happened to him apart from all the other people who have grown up being mistreated by those around them. At the core, what you're trying to say just doesn't seem compelling at all. It comes across as trite.

Out of curiosity, what are your reading habits?

With regards to this sort of thing, a heavy dose of George RR Martin.

Also, I still don't see how a tournament of palace guards (people who've already been trained and deemed qualified to defend the palace) deciding who gets to guard the Queen (again, a largely ceremonial position) is hard to swallow. You're entitled to your opinion, though.

Druhim · May 2008

If you weren't writing a comic with an ongoing narrative it wouldn't really matter. However since you are, I would strongly recommend you branch out in your reading significantly. This is more of a long term investment, but your writing reflects what is apparently a pretty narrow reading range. Don't just read fantasy, in fact reading more non-fiction would be a good idea as well. Get some historical perspective. I maintain that what you're saying (not just how you say it which also needs work), comes across as very naive. Granted, you probably are quite young but you're also choosing to put your work out there for others to read. Why do so if you don't have anything interesting to say?

Reading a broader range of material than just fantasy will give you more perspective on how good writers say what they want to say. George Martin may be entertaining to read, but I wouldn't consider him someone to study in terms of how to write. Stephen King is in a similar vein. He has great story ideas but is pretty weak as a writer. It's the strength of his ideas that carries him through his often clumsy prose, but he could be so much better if he tightened it up.

Mykonos · May 2008

I agree with druhim that you should definitely branch out more on your reading. Your writing seems very derivative of Frank Miller's pithy frame-to-frame narrative.

It's meant to be a ceremonial position. The tournament victory grants public favor and fame to whoever inherits the post. It involves little to no leadership and exists pretty much to a: intimidate anyone who'd try to mess with the Queen and b: look pretty.

In other words He's a glorified private escort with minimal leadership experience whom legitimate officers wouldn't take seriously. This doesn't paint a pretty picture in a time of crisis. Now you can say he's already proven himself, but proving your strength in some tournemant is a stark contrast from doing so on the battlefield. Why do you think mustangs are far more respected amongst the enlisted then officers who just hopped out of rotc at some state school?

This all may seem trivial to you, but you need have some authentic interaction and not force actions for the sake of the story. You need to look into basic psychology, read up on stories of comrardre - non-fiction military novels are fantastic sources of expanding your horizons.

You can have the extraordinary, but its the realistic reaction to it all that makes it a hit or miss. Case in point, Battle Star Galactica, which became a hit practically solely on this principle alone.

Heartlash · May 2008

Mykonos wrote: »

I agree with druhim that you should definitely branch out more on your reading. Your writing seems very derivative of Frank Miller's pithy frame-to-frame narrative.

It's meant to be a ceremonial position. The tournament victory grants public favor and fame to whoever inherits the post. It involves little to no leadership and exists pretty much to a: intimidate anyone who'd try to mess with the Queen and b: look pretty.

In other words He's a glorified private escort with minimal leadership experience whom legitimate officers wouldn't take seriously. This doesn't paint a pretty picture in a time of crisis. Now you can say he's already proven himself, but proving your strength in some tournemant is a stark contrast from doing so on the battlefield. Why do you think mustangs are far more respected amongst the enlisted then officers who just hopped out of rotc at some state school?

Sorry to dig this thread up again, I just saw your edit. This is not me trying to say I don't need to read or research more, this is a discussion of the specific subject at hand (Edgar).

I think you need some perspective here. He's guarding the Queen (Note, Queen, not King or Senators or Military officials of any kind) in the capital city of a Parliamentary Monarchy that's been at peace for 10 years. He's not commanding troops into battle; and the entire palace guard has the shared responsibility of defending the royal family, not just him (he serves as a face for the Queen's guard).

This would essentially be like a guard at the Naval Observatory (home of the Vice President) or the ceremonial guards at Buckingham Palace. While they are trained and serve a generic purpose, they largely exist as figureheads and/or spectacle. He needs the respect of the people, not the brass. I really just completely disagree with your perception.

Additionally, I can also think of numerous fictional examples involving large, oafish characters serving similar roles.

Again, you are entitled to your opinion, I just don't agree with it in this case.

EDIT: Also, the fact that Edgar dies and the Queen is kidnapped at the end of Chapter 1 should imply that the system isn't exactly, you know, perfect.

Druhim · May 2008

If he's just a ceremonial guard he definitely would have a commanding officer instead of reporting directly to the royalty. What you're saying now also contradicts how you portray his position in the start of that first chapter. What you're saying about the respect of the people also doesn't make any sense. The public doesn't know or care who the individual guards at Buckingham Palace are. The whole point is that they're essentially iconic and interchangeable. That's not to say there aren't standards for the position, but it's silly to suggest that such a role would be filled via a tournament. It also isn't credible that royalty would deign to talk to them in any familiar sense.

You have an incredibly naive view of how military institutions work.

Heartlash · May 2008

Druhim wrote: »

If he's just a ceremonial guard he definitely would have a commanding officer instead of reporting directly to the royalty. What you're saying now also contradicts how you portray his position in the start of that first chapter. What you're saying about the respect of the people also doesn't make any sense. The public doesn't know or care who the individual guards at Buckingham Palace are. The whole point is that they're essentially iconic and interchangeable. That's not to say there aren't standards for the position, but it's silly to suggest that such a role would be filled via a tournament. It also isn't credible that royalty would deign to talk to them in any familiar sense.

You have an incredibly naive view of how military institutions work.

You misinterpret. The analogy to the guards at Buckingham has nothing to do with him as an individual or the specifics of his position, and everything to do with his position's nature (as in, the symbolic nature of the Queen's bodyguard in my world is akin to the symbolic nature of the guards at Buckingham). It is also an individual position, he reports to the Royal family and that's it.

I think you're also taking this fantasy project too seriously and harping over a minor detail non of the dozens of people I've shown this to (including various professors, workshops, etc) have ever bothered pointing out. I doubt I'll change anything about it specifically, but thanks for your input.

Mustang · May 2008

Can I just say, I'm rather fond of your site. I understand it's still a WIP but the presentation so far is fantastic. Just need to get your art up to scratch and this thing could really zing.

Penny Arcade

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Duos Lancea, a fantasy webcomic.

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