Vanilla Forums has been nominated for a second time in the CMS Critic "Critic's Choice" awards, and we need your vote! Read more here, and then do the thing (please).
Our new Indie Games subforum is now open for business in G&T. Go and check it out, you might land a code for a free game. If you're developing an indie game and want to post about it, follow these directions. If you don't, he'll break your legs! Hahaha! Seriously though.
Our rules have been updated and given their own forum. Go and look at them! They are nice, and there may be new ones that you didn't know about! Hooray for rules! Hooray for The System! Hooray for Conforming!

Closing Gitmo: Delays and Repercussions

DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
edited October 2009 in Debate and/or Discourse
"I think it has proven more complicated than anticipated," Gates said in an interview broadcast Sunday on CNN's "State of the Union."

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/09/27/cuba.guantanamo.closure/index.html

Gitmo's days are numbered, but exactly how close we are to an end to a national embarrassment is hard to say. What challenges are facing our government in closing this facility?

The first one that pops into my mind is the prison culture we have in America, if we're shipping those prisoners here to be detained. I'm certain that shipping them in with the general populace of maximum security inmates is a death sentence. So, special precautions would have to be taken. They'd have to remain out of general and have added security, etc. I don't see that going over well with conservative types. Even myself, as a moderate liberal, I think that would be a bit much. However, you've got 220 prisoners now to account for, and if they each to a different facility then MAYBE it would possible (if a pain in the ass) to do this. I don't see it possible if they're all sent to the same prison. I see most of them dying.

Another possibility is that some die, while others thrive. There's a not insignificant portion of inmates who are part of the black muslim movement. I wonder how that would give a charismatic muslim terrorist potential influence and power, in and out of prison?

And lastly, what if there simply isn't enough evidence to convict? Are we ready to accept the losses of American lives if we DO release terrorists (whether they were or not before they got there. I know with some of the shit that went down I'd be harboring some anti-American sentiment myself.) back into a warzone?

Derrick on
"The welfare of each of us is dependent fundamentally upon the welfare of all of us."
Spoiler:
-Theodore Roosevelt

Posts

  • JHunzJHunz Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Derrick wrote: »
    And lastly, what if there simply isn't enough evidence to convict? Are we ready to accept the losses of American lives if we DO release terrorists (whether they were or not before they got there. I know with some of the shit that went down I'd be harboring some anti-American sentiment myself.) back into a warzone?
    Fuck, this part of your post is scary. You'd really be okay with imprisoning people forever because we arrested them without sufficient evidence and then tortured them?

    bunny.gif Gamertag: JHunz. R.I.P. Mygamercard.net bunny.gif
  • Bionic MonkeyBionic Monkey Registered User, ClubPA
    edited September 2009
    There are several communities that are lobbing to have the entire population moved to where they are, where a special facility would be built just for them. This would keep them away from not only general populations, but other prisons entirely, and provide a robust job opportunity for these communities.

    As for the possibility of us not having enough evidence... Well, we're a country of laws. We follow those laws, or they're not worth respecting. If we don't have enough evidence to convict, then we try with what we do have, and if they go free, so be it. We live with the consequences of our actions, and letting our country act like tyrants locking people away forever without trial is going to have some pretty big consequences.

    sig_megas_armed.jpg
  • DerrickDerrick Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    JHunz wrote: »
    Derrick wrote: »
    And lastly, what if there simply isn't enough evidence to convict? Are we ready to accept the losses of American lives if we DO release terrorists (whether they were or not before they got there. I know with some of the shit that went down I'd be harboring some anti-American sentiment myself.) back into a warzone?
    Fuck, this part of your post is scary. You'd really be okay with imprisoning people forever because we arrested them without sufficient evidence and then tortured them?

    Me personally? No. Also it's important to note that I doubt any torturing (or waterboarding, if you differentiate the terms) is going on at Gitmo currently. What I'm saying is that the risk is real. How do we deal with it?

    "The welfare of each of us is dependent fundamentally upon the welfare of all of us."
    Spoiler:
    -Theodore Roosevelt
  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    JHunz wrote: »
    Derrick wrote: »
    And lastly, what if there simply isn't enough evidence to convict? Are we ready to accept the losses of American lives if we DO release terrorists (whether they were or not before they got there. I know with some of the shit that went down I'd be harboring some anti-American sentiment myself.) back into a warzone?
    Fuck, this part of your post is scary. You'd really be okay with imprisoning people forever because we arrested them without sufficient evidence and then tortured them?
    The alternative, right or wrong, is the possibility that some of these innocent men relate the story or a story of their imprisonment 'in America' and become living martyrs. I don't know how well known it is, but people are semi-regularly released from prison for crimes they were wrongly convicted of. Some people may end up in prison when they should not, and we're ok with this as a society. As horrible as it sounds, I don't think too many people will lose sleep over these men, unless they photograph well.

    14271f3c-c765-4e74-92b1-49d7612675f2.jpg
  • QuidQuid The Fifth Horseman Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Derrick wrote: »
    What I'm saying is that the risk is real. How do we deal with it?

    The same way we do with the rest of our suspected criminals. Accept that the system isn't perfect.

    PSN: allenquid
  • CervetusCervetus Registered User regular
    edited September 2009
    Derrick wrote: »
    JHunz wrote: »
    Derrick wrote: »
    And lastly, what if there simply isn't enough evidence to convict? Are we ready to accept the losses of American lives if we DO release terrorists (whether they were or not before they got there. I know with some of the shit that went down I'd be harboring some anti-American sentiment myself.) back into a warzone?
    Fuck, this part of your post is scary. You'd really be okay with imprisoning people forever because we arrested them without sufficient evidence and then tortured them?

    Me personally? No. Also it's important to note that I doubt any torturing (or waterboarding, if you differentiate the terms) is going on at Gitmo currently. What I'm saying is that the risk is real. How do we deal with it?

    It's a pretty big decision to become a terrorist. I'd say there's an extremely high risk of falsely-detained people harboring anti-American sentiment for the rest of their lives and railing against the country whenever they can, but that's a far cry from detonating fertilizer bombs in civilian areas.

    The libertarian response to anything is, "Sure, that works fine in practice, but it doesn't fly in theory."
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Quid wrote: »
    Derrick wrote: »
    What I'm saying is that the risk is real. How do we deal with it?

    The same way we do with the rest of our suspected criminals. Accept that the system isn't perfect.

    Also presumably return them to their country of origin, since they aren't american citizens

    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    stand up! It was the smallest on the list but
    pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    My favorite ruckus from when this came up was states declaring they didn't want to take people from Gitmo into their prisons. As if the Gitmo prisoners were super villains that would break out and blow up the local government.

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • electricitylikesmeelectricitylikesme Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Henroid wrote: »
    My favorite ruckus from when this came up was states declaring they didn't want to take people from Gitmo into their prisons. As if the Gitmo prisoners were super villains that would break out and blow up the local government.

    Was that the actual reason, or was it for something more benign such as "they'd need protective custody".

  • HenroidHenroid Nobody Nowhere fastRegistered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Henroid wrote: »
    My favorite ruckus from when this came up was states declaring they didn't want to take people from Gitmo into their prisons. As if the Gitmo prisoners were super villains that would break out and blow up the local government.

    Was that the actual reason, or was it for something more benign such as "they'd need protective custody".

    You mean protection from other prisoners? It makes more sense.

    "Ultima Online Pre-Trammel is the perfect example of why libertarians are full of shit."
    - @Ludious
    PA Lets Play Archive - Twitter - Blog (6/15/14)
  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    edited October 2009
    Henroid wrote: »
    Henroid wrote: »
    My favorite ruckus from when this came up was states declaring they didn't want to take people from Gitmo into their prisons. As if the Gitmo prisoners were super villains that would break out and blow up the local government.

    Was that the actual reason, or was it for something more benign such as "they'd need protective custody".

    You mean protection from other prisoners? It makes more sense.

    The phrase "stealth jihad" gets thrown around a lot these days.

    14271f3c-c765-4e74-92b1-49d7612675f2.jpg
Sign In or Register to comment.