Oh and hey you called him a faggot, because gay people are definitely negative things, and it is hurtful to insinuate someone is gay, because of how bad gay people are.
But no no feel free to get your panties in a bunch over someone telling people who don't believe in demons that there is a demon near them it's basically almost like he did something that could barely be considered not being a great person.
You can't be arrested for attempted murder for "stabbing" someone with a mashmellow
So in essence you're saying that you can't be charged with attempting an act if your attempt in no way will accomplish that act, right?
That's not all that different from what happened here. We might as well make it illegal to eat unicorns.
Well, no, you'll still go down for attempted murder if you try to hire a dude to do the job and he turns you in or turns out to be a cop, and you can still go down if you try to kill someone with something soft and fluffy. Like a pillow!
But that's not really the crux of the issue; demons aren't real and only stupid people think they're either a legitimate threat or a weapon. Nobody's going to get arrested for calling up Azazel on their ex-wife, but they might get medicated.
You can't be arrested for attempted murder for "stabbing" someone with a mashmellow
So in essence you're saying that you can't be charged with attempting an act if your attempt in no way will accomplish that act, right?
That's not all that different from what happened here. We might as well make it illegal to eat unicorns.
Technically, trying to kill someone by stabbing them with a marshmallow meets the legal requirements of attempted murder in that it involves a guilty thought (or mens rea) and a bad action. Being an incompetent murderer isn't a defense to a charge of attempted murder.
Though, if you really thought you could kill someone by stabbing them with a marshmallow, you probably have a pretty good insanity defense. And, realistically, I doubt any prosecutor would bother filing charges.
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The Black HunterThe key is a minimum of compromise, and a simple,unimpeachable reason to existRegistered Userregular
Oh and hey you called him a faggot, because gay people are definitely negative things, and it is hurtful to insinuate someone is gay, because of how bad gay people are.
But no no feel free to get your panties in a bunch over someone telling people who don't believe in demons that there is a demon near them it's basically almost like he did something that could barely be considered not being a great person.
No don't talk down to me
homosexuality is only sacred to homosexuals
I didn't do anything wrong
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Burden of ProofYou three boys picked a beautiful hill to die on.Registered Userregular
edited October 2009
So, I'm assuming some guy walks into the church during service and doesn't do anything particularly remarkable to draw attention to himself. Later on he claims to have summoned a demon. o_O
I don't really see the issue here. I don't even think there's enough information to call him a jerk or what he did mean-spirited. Nuts maybe.
Oh and hey you called him a faggot, because gay people are definitely negative things, and it is hurtful to insinuate someone is gay, because of how bad gay people are.
But no no feel free to get your panties in a bunch over someone telling people who don't believe in demons that there is a demon near them it's basically almost like he did something that could barely be considered not being a great person.
No don't talk down to me
homosexuality is only sacred to homosexuals
I didn't do anything wrong
Right. You did not do anything legally wrong, you were just a bit of a cock. Which is okay for people to be, really. So, how about no one calls up the police on you, the same way no sane person would call on the police for someone who "summoned" a "demon" at "people he never even directly addressed"?
Edit: I'd really go with "probably mentally ill" but whatever I guess.
Exactly, his religion dictates he must to do this to create a den for his evil demon magics. Sure it might be crazier than most religions, but it's still sounds like pretty standard religious mumbo-jumbo to me.
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ElldrenIs a woman dammitceterum censeoRegistered Userregular
Exactly, his religion dictates he must to do this to create a den for his evil demon magics. Sure it might be crazier than most religions, but it's still sounds like pretty standard religious mumbo-jumbo to me.
Most religions don't say you need to do it in order to cause people to commit suicide.
You can't be arrested for attempted murder for "stabbing" someone with a mashmellow
So in essence you're saying that you can't be charged with attempting an act if your attempt in no way will accomplish that act, right?
That's not all that different from what happened here. We might as well make it illegal to eat unicorns.
Technically, trying to kill someone by stabbing them with a marshmallow meets the legal requirements of attempted murder in that it involves a guilty thought (or mens rea) and a bad action. Being an incompetent murderer isn't a defense to a charge of attempted murder.
Though, if you really thought you could kill someone by stabbing them with a marshmallow, you probably have a pretty good insanity defense. And, realistically, I doubt any prosecutor would bother filing charges.
This is what I came here to say.
But really, charges should be filed - this fellow needs some help. It's not that he believes he can summon demons, good for him. It's that he chose to express his faith by summoning a demon to cause the congregation of a church to commit suicide. That there is pretty sick.
It's not about the apparent strangeness of his beliefs, it's not about angry antitheists ranting against religion, it's about this one dude's intent to kill off his local church by a method he thought potent.
Oh and hey you called him a faggot, because gay people are definitely negative things, and it is hurtful to insinuate someone is gay, because of how bad gay people are.
But no no feel free to get your panties in a bunch over someone telling people who don't believe in demons that there is a demon near them it's basically almost like he did something that could barely be considered not being a great person.
No don't talk down to me
homosexuality is only sacred to homosexuals
I didn't do anything wrong
Right. You did not do anything legally wrong, you were just a bit of a cock. Which is okay for people to be, really. So, how about no one calls up the police on you, the same way no sane person would call on the police for someone who "summoned" a "demon" at "people he never even directly addressed"?
Edit: I'd really go with "probably mentally ill" but whatever I guess.
If I plant a bomb filled with play-doh, and I genuinely think it will explode and kill people, I am guilty of attempted murder.
If I "summon a demon" and I genuinely think it will make people commit suicide, I am guilty of attempted murder.
Oh and hey you called him a faggot, because gay people are definitely negative things, and it is hurtful to insinuate someone is gay, because of how bad gay people are.
But no no feel free to get your panties in a bunch over someone telling people who don't believe in demons that there is a demon near them it's basically almost like he did something that could barely be considered not being a great person.
No don't talk down to me
homosexuality is only sacred to homosexuals
I didn't do anything wrong
Right. You did not do anything legally wrong, you were just a bit of a cock. Which is okay for people to be, really. So, how about no one calls up the police on you, the same way no sane person would call on the police for someone who "summoned" a "demon" at "people he never even directly addressed"?
Edit: I'd really go with "probably mentally ill" but whatever I guess.
If I plant a bomb filled with play-doh, and I genuinely think it will explode and kill people, I am guilty of attempted murder.
If I "summon a demon" and I genuinely think it will make people commit suicide, I am guilty of attempted murder.
no you're really not. that's fucking retarded
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
Oh and hey you called him a faggot, because gay people are definitely negative things, and it is hurtful to insinuate someone is gay, because of how bad gay people are.
But no no feel free to get your panties in a bunch over someone telling people who don't believe in demons that there is a demon near them it's basically almost like he did something that could barely be considered not being a great person.
No don't talk down to me
homosexuality is only sacred to homosexuals
I didn't do anything wrong
Right. You did not do anything legally wrong, you were just a bit of a cock. Which is okay for people to be, really. So, how about no one calls up the police on you, the same way no sane person would call on the police for someone who "summoned" a "demon" at "people he never even directly addressed"?
Edit: I'd really go with "probably mentally ill" but whatever I guess.
If I plant a bomb filled with play-doh, and I genuinely think it will explode and kill people, I am guilty of attempted murder.
If I "summon a demon" and I genuinely think it will make people commit suicide, I am guilty of attempted murder.
In either of those cases you're not really guilty of attempted murder seeing how you're certifiably insane. Well, maybe you're guilty of it, but instead of going to prison you'll be going to a fun house until you stop thinking that play-doh is lethal or that you can summon demons.
This is hilarious, every party involved is fucking retarded; the 'witch king', the bible bashers, and the police. Farcical stories such as these make one check whether the date is actually the 1st of April.
In either of those cases you're not really guilty of attempted murder seeing how you're certifiably insane. Well, maybe you're guilty of it, but instead of going to prison you'll be going to a fun house until you stop thinking that play-doh is lethal or that you can summon demons.
The M'Naghten Rules (1843) 10 C & F 200, state, inter alia, that a person may be "insane" if "...at the time of the committing of the act, the party accused was laboring under such a defect of reason, arising from a disease of the mind, as not to know the nature and quality of the act he was doing, or, if he did know it, that he did not know what he was doing was wrong." During the mid- 20th century the M'Naghten Rules were gradually replaced in most jurisdictions in the United States by other tests listed below. Following the attempted assassination of another prominent political figure (president Ronald Reagan), however, the M'Naghten Rules underwent a major revival such that they apply in the majority of states.
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reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
edited October 2009
Believing that you can summon demons that can kill a person doesn't make you legally insane?
That's just idiotic. Whoever's in charge of that stuff is an idiot and should be fired.
In either of those cases you're not really guilty of attempted murder seeing how you're certifiably insane. Well, maybe you're guilty of it, but instead of going to prison you'll be going to a fun house until you stop thinking that play-doh is lethal or that you can summon demons.
The M'Naghten Rules (1843) 10 C & F 200, state, inter alia, that a person may be "insane" if "...at the time of the committing of the act, the party accused was laboring under such a defect of reason, arising from a disease of the mind, as not to know the nature and quality of the act he was doing, or, if he did know it, that he did not know what he was doing was wrong." During the mid- 20th century the M'Naghten Rules were gradually replaced in most jurisdictions in the United States by other tests listed below. Following the attempted assassination of another prominent political figure (president Ronald Reagan), however, the M'Naghten Rules underwent a major revival such that they apply in the majority of states.
I think anyone who thinks they could murder someone by summoning a demon or using a play-doh bomb is very likely to have mental issues that might well qualify them as being legally insane.
It would probably be pretty tough to be so out of touch with reality and remain legally sane. Anyway, I don't see any prosecutor actually filing attempted murder charges against such a person.
This case is like a bad law school criminal law hypothetical.
Modern Man on
Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
Rigorous Scholarship
Oh and hey you called him a faggot, because gay people are definitely negative things, and it is hurtful to insinuate someone is gay, because of how bad gay people are.
But no no feel free to get your panties in a bunch over someone telling people who don't believe in demons that there is a demon near them it's basically almost like he did something that could barely be considered not being a great person.
No don't talk down to me
homosexuality is only sacred to homosexuals
I didn't do anything wrong
Right. You did not do anything legally wrong, you were just a bit of a cock. Which is okay for people to be, really. So, how about no one calls up the police on you, the same way no sane person would call on the police for someone who "summoned" a "demon" at "people he never even directly addressed"?
Edit: I'd really go with "probably mentally ill" but whatever I guess.
If I plant a bomb filled with play-doh, and I genuinely think it will explode and kill people, I am guilty of attempted murder.
If I "summon a demon" and I genuinely think it will make people commit suicide, I am guilty of attempted murder.
In either of those cases you're not really guilty of attempted murder seeing how you're certifiably insane. Well, maybe you're guilty of it, but instead of going to prison you'll be going to a fun house until you stop thinking that play-doh is lethal or that you can summon demons.
The M'Naghten Rules (1843) 10 C & F 200, state, inter alia, that a person may be "insane" if "...at the time of the committing of the act, the party accused was laboring under such a defect of reason, arising from a disease of the mind, as not to know the nature and quality of the act he was doing, or, if he did know it, that he did not know what he was doing was wrong." During the mid- 20th century the M'Naghten Rules were gradually replaced in most jurisdictions in the United States by other tests listed below. Following the attempted assassination of another prominent political figure (president Ronald Reagan), however, the M'Naghten Rules underwent a major revival such that they apply in the majority of states.
I think anyone who thinks they could murder someone by summoning a demon or using a play-doh bomb is very likely to have mental issues that might well qualify them as being legally insane.
It would probably be pretty tough to be so out of touch with reality and remain legally sane. Anyway, I don't see any prosecutor actually filing attempted murder charges against such a person.
This case is like a bad law school criminal law hypothetical.
Being found not criminally liable by reason of insanity is not the same as being found innocent. You're forcibly confined to an insane asylum until the doctors there judge you fit to integrate back into society. In some ways, it's worse then prison. In other ways, hey, the person is getting the help they need.
Well, it's open and shut then. All they'll need to do now is furnish the demon they were assaulted with so it can be admitted into evidence.
Oh gosh aren't you clever!
This is an interesting case - this person is clearly mentally disturbed, and wishes death on the church goers. But I see we're all caught up in the oh ho ho god and demons! aspect of it. I guess we should turn this fellow loose and see how far he is willing to go with his deadly intentions! Maybe if he blows up a church, we can get a real laugh because, well, they were a bunch of misguided Christians anyways and the world is better off without them! Ha ha ha!
Well, it's open and shut then. All they'll need to do now is furnish the demon they were assaulted with so it can be admitted into evidence.
Oh gosh aren't you clever!
This is an interesting case - this person is clearly mentally disturbed, and wishes death on the church goers. But I see we're all caught up in the oh ho ho god and demons! aspect of it. I guess we should turn this fellow loose and see how far he is willing to go with his deadly intentions! Maybe if he blows up a church, we can get a real laugh because, well, they were a bunch of misguided Christians anyways and the world is better off without them! Ha ha ha!
Could he possibly just be an idiotic dick? Like he just said that to scare/piss off Christians, and has no real urge to do violence? That's what I'm leaning toward,some dumb kid who's simply doing it wrong.
Well, it's open and shut then. All they'll need to do now is furnish the demon they were assaulted with so it can be admitted into evidence.
Oh gosh aren't you clever!
This is an interesting case - this person is clearly mentally disturbed, and wishes death on the church goers. But I see we're all caught up in the oh ho ho god and demons! aspect of it. I guess we should turn this fellow loose and see how far he is willing to go with his deadly intentions! Maybe if he blows up a church, we can get a real laugh because, well, they were a bunch of misguided Christians anyways and the world is better off without them! Ha ha ha!
Maybe we should arrest everybody who doesn't believe in Christianity, just to be safe.
Well, it's open and shut then. All they'll need to do now is furnish the demon they were assaulted with so it can be admitted into evidence.
Oh gosh aren't you clever!
This is an interesting case - this person is clearly mentally disturbed, and wishes death on the church goers. But I see we're all caught up in the oh ho ho god and demons! aspect of it. I guess we should turn this fellow loose and see how far he is willing to go with his deadly intentions! Maybe if he blows up a church, we can get a real laugh because, well, they were a bunch of misguided Christians anyways and the world is better off without them! Ha ha ha!
Could he possibly just be an idiotic dick? Like he just said that to scare/piss off Christians, and has no real urge to do violence? That's what I'm leaning toward,some dumb kid who's simply doing it wrong.
If he's just being a dick, sitting him down across from an Inspector to discuss whether he wants to be charged with harassment or attempted murder might be the sort of "welcome to society, we don't accept this sort of thing" message he needs to get his head straight.
If he honestly believes that he was summoning a demon to kill the church goers, then he really needs some help. An assessment isn't unjustified - mass murder intentions aren't something to take lightly.
Posts
Oh and hey you called him a faggot, because gay people are definitely negative things, and it is hurtful to insinuate someone is gay, because of how bad gay people are.
But no no feel free to get your panties in a bunch over someone telling people who don't believe in demons that there is a demon near them it's basically almost like he did something that could barely be considered not being a great person.
But that's not really the crux of the issue; demons aren't real and only stupid people think they're either a legitimate threat or a weapon. Nobody's going to get arrested for calling up Azazel on their ex-wife, but they might get medicated.
Though, if you really thought you could kill someone by stabbing them with a marshmallow, you probably have a pretty good insanity defense. And, realistically, I doubt any prosecutor would bother filing charges.
Rigorous Scholarship
No don't talk down to me
homosexuality is only sacred to homosexuals
I didn't do anything wrong
I don't really see the issue here. I don't even think there's enough information to call him a jerk or what he did mean-spirited. Nuts maybe.
Right. You did not do anything legally wrong, you were just a bit of a cock. Which is okay for people to be, really. So, how about no one calls up the police on you, the same way no sane person would call on the police for someone who "summoned" a "demon" at "people he never even directly addressed"?
Edit: I'd really go with "probably mentally ill" but whatever I guess.
...
All of them.
and it is obvious where the line is drawn
Um. No.
All of them all of them.
It's the definition of the word.
Exactly, his religion dictates he must to do this to create a den for his evil demon magics. Sure it might be crazier than most religions, but it's still sounds like pretty standard religious mumbo-jumbo to me.
It's sacred to him, innit?
Most religions don't say you need to do it in order to cause people to commit suicide.
Make sure you are summoning a pre-existing demon, not creating one out of spite+fear+rage+insubstantial mist; otherwise you'll have to pay VAT on it.
Holy shit! Well, I guess it figures old Beelzebub would have some scam going to keep seniority. Will do.
I would really like to see this line.
This is what I came here to say.
But really, charges should be filed - this fellow needs some help. It's not that he believes he can summon demons, good for him. It's that he chose to express his faith by summoning a demon to cause the congregation of a church to commit suicide. That there is pretty sick.
It's not about the apparent strangeness of his beliefs, it's not about angry antitheists ranting against religion, it's about this one dude's intent to kill off his local church by a method he thought potent.
If I plant a bomb filled with play-doh, and I genuinely think it will explode and kill people, I am guilty of attempted murder.
If I "summon a demon" and I genuinely think it will make people commit suicide, I am guilty of attempted murder.
In either of those cases you're not really guilty of attempted murder seeing how you're certifiably insane. Well, maybe you're guilty of it, but instead of going to prison you'll be going to a fun house until you stop thinking that play-doh is lethal or that you can summon demons.
My guess is that it's Islam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insanity_defense#Rules_of_appreciation
That's just idiotic. Whoever's in charge of that stuff is an idiot and should be fired.
It would probably be pretty tough to be so out of touch with reality and remain legally sane. Anyway, I don't see any prosecutor actually filing attempted murder charges against such a person.
This case is like a bad law school criminal law hypothetical.
Rigorous Scholarship
Here you go sire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea
There's a good starting place before you dismiss one of the founding principles of law as "fucking retarded"
Being found not criminally liable by reason of insanity is not the same as being found innocent. You're forcibly confined to an insane asylum until the doctors there judge you fit to integrate back into society. In some ways, it's worse then prison. In other ways, hey, the person is getting the help they need.
Oh gosh aren't you clever!
This is an interesting case - this person is clearly mentally disturbed, and wishes death on the church goers. But I see we're all caught up in the oh ho ho god and demons! aspect of it. I guess we should turn this fellow loose and see how far he is willing to go with his deadly intentions! Maybe if he blows up a church, we can get a real laugh because, well, they were a bunch of misguided Christians anyways and the world is better off without them! Ha ha ha!
Could he possibly just be an idiotic dick? Like he just said that to scare/piss off Christians, and has no real urge to do violence? That's what I'm leaning toward,some dumb kid who's simply doing it wrong.
Maybe we should arrest everybody who doesn't believe in Christianity, just to be safe.
If he's just being a dick, sitting him down across from an Inspector to discuss whether he wants to be charged with harassment or attempted murder might be the sort of "welcome to society, we don't accept this sort of thing" message he needs to get his head straight.
If he honestly believes that he was summoning a demon to kill the church goers, then he really needs some help. An assessment isn't unjustified - mass murder intentions aren't something to take lightly.