There is no way for a dress code that allows jeans and t shirts to be consistent.
You're going to have to explain that one for me.
You're going to have to explain how that is not self evident, I'm lacking in words to make my statement more plain.
How would "and thou shalt wear blue jeans, a plain black tee (or a company supplied GS tee), and a lanyard with your badge on it" not be consistent?
Just because a dress code is less than suit & tie does not make it impossible to enforce.
Alternatively, what would be so wrong with "and thou salt wear blue jeans or khakis (must be clean and no holes), a plain t-shirt or polo (must also be clean and no holes), and a lanyard with your badge on it"? Employees are easily recognized by a) standing behind the counter, b) organizing shelves, c) running the vacuum cleaner, and d) greeting you upon entry.
Someone needs to explain this witches thing to me. I don't get it.
Witches are those gross things that you really don't like and whose powers you fear but who you need and make use of but secretly you'd like to just burn them at the stake so you make them live in little hovels in the woods but occasionally have to give them your first born child or some other horrible sacrifice.
I do business in jeans all the time so I guess we are at an impasse.
We've already covered that business appropriate is not always a suit, but that it is the overall iconic default.
I agree that suits are the norm, but I don't expect the kid pulling down $7.00/hr at GameStop to show up in in a shirt and tie. I'm there to buy video games. He can ring up my purchase in jeans, and I will not think less of him or the company he works for. A uniform is unimportant. It's a small enough store that I can pick out the kid behind the counter as an employee.
Gamestop is catering to their clients. Many of whom are expected to be intimidated by business wear, which would decrease profits.
If they thought it would increase profits, they would all be wearing slacks and polos and funny little hats.
It's not about your needs it's about the company's profits.
I figured they were catering to what's easy since most people don't give a rat's ass if the high school kid behind the register is wearing Dickies or not.
I figured they were catering to what's easy since most people don't give a rat's ass if the high school kid behind the register is wearing Dickies or not.
I figured they were catering to what's easy since most people don't give a rat's ass if the high school kid behind the register is wearing Dickies or not.
Highly unlikely.
Having worked fast food, dress codes are more assigned on what you think you can get the employees to wear. When you pay someone min wage, you don't expect that they'll show up in anything nice. You are just glad they washed within the last 2 days.
Preacher on
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
I do business in jeans all the time so I guess we are at an impasse.
We've already covered that business appropriate is not always a suit, but that it is the overall iconic default.
I agree that suits are the norm, but I don't expect the kid pulling down $7.00/hr at GameStop to show up in in a shirt and tie. I'm there to buy video games. He can ring up my purchase in jeans, and I will not think less of him or the company he works for. A uniform is unimportant. It's a small enough store that I can pick out the kid behind the counter as an employee.
On the other hand, dressing up and standing behind that counter would probably be a good way to trick customers into think you're more important than you are.
On the other hand, dressing up and standing behind that counter would probably be a good way to trick customers into think you're more important than you are.
It's not uncommon for people to assume I work somewhere simply because I'm wearing a dress shirt.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
I gotta say, it's easier to find people in big-box stores when they're wearing uniforms, even if it's just a certain style or color.
Basically, the uniform needs to fit the function of the job. If a coder is locked in a cubicle all day and never interacts with clients face-to-face, let 'em wear their fucking pajamas for all I care. My wife does IT and frequently heads to work in sweatpants and a UT jersey, because it's equally a functional as anything else for a job that only requires a telephone headset for interaction.
If you're selling fashions, you need to look like you understand what fashion is. If you're selling financial services, you need to look like someone who isn't broke and lazy. Et cetera, et cetera . . . .
Certainly if you're a coder and you don't ever want to be anything more than Coder #376b for the rest of your life there's no reason to dress other than in what's comfortable and not causing a distraction at the work place.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
The only people I really feel sorry for are people who have to wear very expensive clothing but don't make a lot of money. Like bank tellers. Or my buddy who was a buyer for Macy's.
Yeah I don't necessarily think that forcing employees to dress well necessarily leads to a successful business or vice-versa, though my experiences with casual-dress companies does give some credence to the "code monkey ghetto" or "creative ghetto" theory. I prefer to work in companies in which people take some care in their appearance when they come to work, because I think it connotes a little more seriousness and professionalism. It's just my preference though.
I dress well when I go to work because I think it's respectful and appropriate. It doesn't really change the way I do my job, but it has absolutely changed the way a good number of my coworkers react to me.
What is the code monkey ghetto theory? That we all dress horribly for work?
It really does depend on the situation you are in. I could dress nicely and no one would care because I interact with other coworkers maybe 15 minutes a day the rest of the time I'm holed up in my cubicle. (I only have 2 meetings a week). I have been mocked for dressing nicely. Alternatively when I do go on business trips to give a presentation about our product I do dress up in a suit because that's appropriate. My computer certainly doesn't care that I wear jeans and tshirt to work nor do the people on aim/email.
Edit: So I would argue that it is appropriate to dress casually in many coding environments. Just as long as people shower and don't wear pajamas to work.
I forget who's post it was, but the theory was that casual dress was encouraged among the tech people and coders because it puts them in an easily identifiable different class than management.
Pretty sure it was one of the people arguing for the side of always dress nicely camp.
Nice thing about a casual dress code is you can dress up or dress down however you feel like that day. So someone wearing a geek t-shirt one day might be in a nice button down shirt and so on the next.
Certainly if you're a coder and you don't ever want to be anything more than Coder #376b for the rest of your life there's no reason to dress other than in what's comfortable and not causing a distraction at the work place.
There we go, here's the guy we're talking about. Except for the fact that the execs at work also dress in jeans sometimes and the coders sometimes wear nice clothes.
Yeah, the amount of professionalism you're expected to show for $10.50/hr is pretty absurd.
Which is why they have a lot of overturn.
My friend actually made a decent wage, but his job expected him to be immaculately (and recognizably) dressed at all times, meaning he had to wear name-brand fashions on a regular and revolving basis. I never saw anyone who had more pairs of slightly-varying black Kenneth Cole shoes than that poor guy.
He's a buyer for Academy now. Traded Manhattan for Houston and Steve Madden for Sketchers. He's a lot happier and keeps more money in his pocket, too.
On the other hand, dressing up and standing behind that counter would probably be a good way to trick customers into think you're more important than you are.
It's not uncommon for people to assume I work somewhere simply because I'm wearing a dress shirt.
I forget who's post it was, but the theory was that casual dress was encouraged among the tech people and coders because it puts them in an easily identifiable different class than management.
Pretty sure it was one of the people arguing for the side of always dress nicely camp.
Nice thing about a casual dress code is you can dress up or dress down however you feel like that day. So someone wearing a geek t-shirt one day might be in a nice button down shirt and so on the next.
Certainly if you're a coder and you don't ever want to be anything more than Coder #376b for the rest of your life there's no reason to dress other than in what's comfortable and not causing a distraction at the work place.
There we go, here's the guy we're talking about. Except for the fact that the execs at work also dress in jeans sometimes and the coders sometimes wear nice clothes.
Oh shit sometimes.
Well that changes everything.
Yeah, because there's no such thing as a happy medium.
Edit: Restoring some of the quote tree for context.
Clearly casual Friday negates the importance of appropriate dress.
See, we don't have to depend on arbitrary days to decide whether we're allowed to dress up or down. Every day is Casual Friday or Formal Friday.
And that's perfectly fine for a minority company who wishes to take on that challenge.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
I wear the same exact thing every day, but I'm a nurse. Navy scrubs. But I don't mind because it's comfortable and it lets patients differentiate me from other professional designations that also wear scrubs (i.e., doctors in light green, techs in tan, respiratory therapists in red, et al).
What I do hate is when some bitchy nurse moans and complains about the dress code. "So what am I supposed to do with my five pairs of kitten-themed scrubs? Just throw them the hell out?"
Clearly casual Friday negates the importance of appropriate dress.
See, we don't have to depend on arbitrary days to decide whether we're allowed to dress up or down. Every day is Casual Friday or Formal Friday.
And that's perfectly fine for a minority company who wishes to take on that challenge.
What challenge? Minority company? Because you happily edited out someone else's example which was pretty much the same thing?
I like how you're trying to pretend we're a minority that doesn't matter. We're technically still a startup, but we've been around for a while and most PAers probably use our product.
I like how you're trying to pretend we're a minority that doesn't matter. We're technically still a startup, but we've been around for a while and most PAers probably use our product.
Most PAers have also eaten at McDonald's.
I mean that's awesome that your company works out for you and all, but it doesn't mean anything for the world at large.
I like how you're trying to pretend we're a minority that doesn't matter. We're technically still a startup, but we've been around for a while and most PAers probably use our product.
Most PAers have also eaten at McDonald's.
I'll give you that. But most PAers probably like our product. And McDonald's isn't a startup either. Most people having used a MNC's product isn't really saying much.
Are you trying to actually make a point or just getting cartoonishly defensive about your company being anti- dress code which really doesn't mean shitall?
And hint: Startups are kind of known for having looser standards.
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AtomikaLive fast and get fucked or whateverRegistered Userregular
I mean I guess if you're working with extremely young children MAYBE.
The only themed scrubs I've ever even remotely thought were okay where some of the college-themed ones that are one solid color with the school's logo on the pocket or sleeve. A friend of mine has a pair of burnt-orange scrubs with a longhorn on the shirt pocket, and that's kinda alright.
But most of the themed scrubs are hideous, and don't really make a lot of sense. They seemed designed for the same person who buys white cotton tees with airbrushed or puffpainted kittens on them.
Are you trying to actually make a point or just getting cartoonishly defensive about your company being anti- dress code which really doesn't mean shitall?
And hint: Startups are kind of known for having looser standards.
The point is the reason I restored the quote tree. Might want to read what Irond Will and Communist Cow was asking.
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How would "and thou shalt wear blue jeans, a plain black tee (or a company supplied GS tee), and a lanyard with your badge on it" not be consistent?
Just because a dress code is less than suit & tie does not make it impossible to enforce.
Alternatively, what would be so wrong with "and thou salt wear blue jeans or khakis (must be clean and no holes), a plain t-shirt or polo (must also be clean and no holes), and a lanyard with your badge on it"? Employees are easily recognized by a) standing behind the counter, b) organizing shelves, c) running the vacuum cleaner, and d) greeting you upon entry.
khakis and polos or better are clothes to do business in.
I can make a thousand different arguments to this effect, but unless you agree on those two points we'll never reach consensus.
I do business in jeans all the time so I guess we are at an impasse.
We've already covered that business appropriate is not always a suit, but that it is the overall iconic default.
Witches are those gross things that you really don't like and whose powers you fear but who you need and make use of but secretly you'd like to just burn them at the stake so you make them live in little hovels in the woods but occasionally have to give them your first born child or some other horrible sacrifice.
Like IT guys.
I agree that suits are the norm, but I don't expect the kid pulling down $7.00/hr at GameStop to show up in in a shirt and tie. I'm there to buy video games. He can ring up my purchase in jeans, and I will not think less of him or the company he works for. A uniform is unimportant. It's a small enough store that I can pick out the kid behind the counter as an employee.
If they thought it would increase profits, they would all be wearing slacks and polos and funny little hats.
It's not about your needs it's about the company's profits.
If you show up to a construction site in slacks and flip flops you will be sent home.
I figured they were catering to what's easy since most people don't give a rat's ass if the high school kid behind the register is wearing Dickies or not.
Highly unlikely.
Having worked fast food, dress codes are more assigned on what you think you can get the employees to wear. When you pay someone min wage, you don't expect that they'll show up in anything nice. You are just glad they washed within the last 2 days.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Because drug stores are havens for little old people.
On the other hand, dressing up and standing behind that counter would probably be a good way to trick customers into think you're more important than you are.
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It's not uncommon for people to assume I work somewhere simply because I'm wearing a dress shirt.
Basically, the uniform needs to fit the function of the job. If a coder is locked in a cubicle all day and never interacts with clients face-to-face, let 'em wear their fucking pajamas for all I care. My wife does IT and frequently heads to work in sweatpants and a UT jersey, because it's equally a functional as anything else for a job that only requires a telephone headset for interaction.
If you're selling fashions, you need to look like you understand what fashion is. If you're selling financial services, you need to look like someone who isn't broke and lazy. Et cetera, et cetera . . . .
Which is why they have a lot of overturn.
There we go, here's the guy we're talking about. Except for the fact that the execs at work also dress in jeans sometimes and the coders sometimes wear nice clothes.
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Oh shit sometimes.
Well that changes everything.
My friend actually made a decent wage, but his job expected him to be immaculately (and recognizably) dressed at all times, meaning he had to wear name-brand fashions on a regular and revolving basis. I never saw anyone who had more pairs of slightly-varying black Kenneth Cole shoes than that poor guy.
He's a buyer for Academy now. Traded Manhattan for Houston and Steve Madden for Sketchers. He's a lot happier and keeps more money in his pocket, too.
http://improveverywhere.com/2006/04/23/best-buy/
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Yeah, because there's no such thing as a happy medium.
Edit: Restoring some of the quote tree for context.
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I love that very last part, where that manager is obviously getting really worked up and tattling to her supervisor.
"OMG! Those guys are totally wearing blue and looking helpful! Call the police or something!"
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And that's perfectly fine for a minority company who wishes to take on that challenge.
What I do hate is when some bitchy nurse moans and complains about the dress code. "So what am I supposed to do with my five pairs of kitten-themed scrubs? Just throw them the hell out?"
. . . . yes, please?
I mean I guess if you're working with extremely young children MAYBE.
What challenge? Minority company? Because you happily edited out someone else's example which was pretty much the same thing?
I like how you're trying to pretend we're a minority that doesn't matter. We're technically still a startup, but we've been around for a while and most PAers probably use our product.
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Most PAers have also eaten at McDonald's.
I mean that's awesome that your company works out for you and all, but it doesn't mean anything for the world at large.
I'll give you that. But most PAers probably like our product. And McDonald's isn't a startup either. Most people having used a MNC's product isn't really saying much.
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And hint: Startups are kind of known for having looser standards.
The only themed scrubs I've ever even remotely thought were okay where some of the college-themed ones that are one solid color with the school's logo on the pocket or sleeve. A friend of mine has a pair of burnt-orange scrubs with a longhorn on the shirt pocket, and that's kinda alright.
But most of the themed scrubs are hideous, and don't really make a lot of sense. They seemed designed for the same person who buys white cotton tees with airbrushed or puffpainted kittens on them.
The point is the reason I restored the quote tree. Might want to read what Irond Will and Communist Cow was asking.
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Yay for conforming to stereotype?
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Try again.