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[Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition] PC version ETA Nov 30

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Posts

  • BigityBigity Lubbock, TXRegistered User regular
    Instead of 2-3 generated chars, I just decided to make a halfling thief evil protagonist and use NPCs. At least the banter is funny sometimes.

    And he levels so stinking fast, I didn't do a kit so I could hopefully get enough skill points to be good at traps/locks and sneaking and PP

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  • korodullinkorodullin What. Registered User regular
    Word to the wise: be kind of careful about mixing Web with Ice Storm. It's extremely powerful and potent, but the hold that Web applies has a tendency to make damage "build up" instead of triggering the NPC's death animation, causing damage to continue to accumulate even though the tooltip status for the enemy reads "Dead". When the hold dissipates from the enemy, the stored-up damage releases all at once, guaranteeing the enemy gets "chunked" into gibs. Normally this isn't a bad thing, but if an enemy gets gibbed while affected by Ice Storm's freezing effects, it destroys any and all loot on the target.

    I had to reload the Mae'Var fight four times before I finally got him down without chunking.

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  • korodullinkorodullin What. Registered User regular
    God damn Lavok, the Necromancer controlling the Planar Sphere, is a complete and utter pain in SCS 2. Impossible to dispel, so many extra castings of Stoneskin, three castings of Horrid Wilting (one of them in a fucking contingency!), Time Stop (which he will happily use to cast both sets of Horrid Wiltings to instakill your party), Absolute Immunity, Spell Trap, and so many other incredibly annoying spells. I tried to do this fight fair and square but I just couldn't do it. Even with Jan and Xan dedicated solely to spewing out Remove Magic, Spell Thrust, Breach, Pierce Magic, and Secret Word I could not keep his protections down.

    So I cheated instead. Had Callic pre-cast Harm, Jan Improved Invis him, walked up, and proceeded to one-shot Lavok with it. In Spell Revisions, Harm no longer does 90% of a target's health in damage - it does 150 damage, save for half. A huge nerf against dragons, Irenicus, and various ToB stuff... but not against a human necromancer with 98 HP.

    I honestly do not know how this fight is remotely possible at a lower level in order to obtain the stronghold.

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  • RedOneRedOne Registered User regular
    Caved and installed

    Patched, put in the fixpack and added shadowkeeper so I can be a min/maxing piece of scum

    I can't decide on my class.

    Right now I'm trying to decided between Kensai/mage (or thief)

    mage/sorcerer

    or thief/mage

    what are some of the benefits and downsides of these classes? (I know that anything with a kensai in it is supposed to eventually become broken to all hell and that pure mages are ridiculous endgame as well)

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  • korodullinkorodullin What. Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Kensai/Mage: Really nice in melee and can buff yourself up to do even nicer. The equipment restrictions are harsh enough that I'd suggest something else instead of Kensai that can wear actual armor, like Berserker. Though, if you manage to get 17-18 DEX you can get by with the Mage Armor spell. Kensai/Mage is not nearly as broken as many claim though - by the end of Throne of Bhaal you're going to essentially be more of a standard pure mage who can't wear any robes and sticking around in melee is suicide. If the thought of a spellsword appeals to you, roll a Fighter/Mage instead.

    Kensai/Thief: A backstabber without the THAC0 problems of an Assassin. When you get Use Any Item you become ungodly powerful. Any permutation of Fighter/Thief works too, including multiclasses.

    Mage is always nice. A Conjurer or a Gnome Illusionist are your best bets if you don't go Wild Mage.

    Sorcerers I don't care much for in BG. Can't dual class without mods and your spell list is too inflexible in a game that really demands flexibility. If you pair an offense-oriented Sorc with a more support/debuff Mage, it might work out okay.

    Thief/Mage is alright. For dual-classing I'd go Swashbuckler/Mage with no points spent in stealth skills so you can actually be competent at physically attacking when not casting. I couldn't honestly see myself rolling a Thief/Mage considering there are three of them in BG2 alone.

    Edit: If you want to do the magey thing, I'd even suggest giving Cleric/Mage (or a Gnomish Cleric/Illusionist) with 18 INT and 18 WIS a try.

    korodullin on
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  • Rhan9Rhan9 Registered User regular
    The idea about a kensai/mage is that since Kensai don't wear armor, it pairs up nicely with the Mage, as making a fighter/mage and wearing armor interferes with spellcasting, with a few exceptions. Then again, I might be misremembering things, it's been years since I played any of the BG games.

    Wild Mage is the choice of champions.

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  • DockenDocken Registered User regular
    I've used level1npc to make Jan a wild Mage for bg2... Can't wait to see how it works!

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  • Vi MonksVi Monks Registered User regular
    Kensai/Mage works in SoA, but is HIGHLY overrated in ToB (as is anything with a Kensai in it, in my opinion). Fighter/mage multi is the way to go for ToB. HLAs make multi-classes much more powerful than duals in most cases. The only dual class I would really consider is Wizard Slayer (13) dual to Thief because it's 100% broken. Sorcerer is also the go-to crazy class, but only if you're familiar with the spell selection. If you're not, stick with a wizard of some kind for the strategic flexibility (at the cost of tactical flexibility) that korodullin mentioned.

  • MyiagrosMyiagros Registered User regular
    I might give this game another go, never got very far through it before and the remake will get me back into it for sure. Can someone direct me to the must-have mods for the originals? I'm going to start with BG and work my way through both games and I only know about Tutu. Maybe the OP can be updated with mod suggestions as well?

    iRevert wrote: »
    Because if you're going to attempt to squeeze that big black monster into your slot you will need to be able to take at least 12 inches or else you're going to have a bad time...
    Steam: MyiagrosX27
  • korodullinkorodullin What. Registered User regular
    If you haven't gotten very far into the game before, I recommend going fairly mod-light with no huge radically-changing mods or massive difficulty increasers. Here are a few that I consider a must-have for any install I do, no matter what.

    BG2 Fix Pack: Probably the most essential. Fixes a bunch of bugs, issues, and lets you make a lot of nice quality-of-life changes to the game, though usually nothing really drastic. Despite its name, it works for both BG1 (through Tutu or BGT) as well as BG2.

    Banter Pack: Gives BG2 a lot more companion banters with each other and yourself. Most I've found to be quite well-written and occasionally very funny. Nothing major, but worth it.

    BG1 NPC Project: Absolutely essential in Baldur's Gate 1. Normally BG1 NPCs are almost entirely silent, with little to no interaction with either you or each other. This fixes that in a big way, giving every recruitable BG1 NPC similar levels of inter-party dialogue to Baldur's Gate 2's characters, including a few romances for both genders. It even has fun, short, and fairly rewarding personal quests for a fair number of characters.

    Spell Revisions: Does a complete pass on all spells in the game, tweaking, rebalancing and in a few cases outright replacing spells. Unlike a difficulty-boosting mod, this actually tends to work out to give spells an overall buff, such as Sleep actually working on enemies beyond midway through BG1.

    Tweak Pack: A huge list of tweaks and changes you can make to both BG1 and BG2 to help shape it to your personal taste. Be sure to read the readme pretty thoroughly.

    Widescreen Mod: Does what it says on the tin. If you use a widescreen monitor (or just want to run it at windowed at a 4:3 resolution it doesn't support) this is the thing for you.

    Load orders are pretty important, and you have to install mods separately for both BG1 and BG2 if you use Tutu. For BG1 via Tutu, the order would be:
    Spoiler:

    And for BG2, you do:
    Spoiler:

    Make sure to read every mod's readme very carefully and thoroughly, since they generally explain what each component does in detail. If you want to use the mods that are compatible with both games, it's probably a good idea to either consult the weidu.log that is made after installing all your mods or make a small Notepad file detailing what components you installed for each mod that affects both games so you get a more consistent experience.

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  • MyiagrosMyiagros Registered User regular
    Excellent info, might get it installed tonight if I find the time.

    iRevert wrote: »
    Because if you're going to attempt to squeeze that big black monster into your slot you will need to be able to take at least 12 inches or else you're going to have a bad time...
    Steam: MyiagrosX27
  • korodullinkorodullin What. Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Normally I wouldn't give commentary on what to install within each component outside of compatibility reasons since most of that is largely personal preference, but one of the components in Spell Revisions reduces the strength of the Dispel Magic that the Inquisitor kit for the Paladin has. Don't install this. It completely neuters one of the only reasons the Inquisitor is worth a damn, as the only enemies it will end up working on are complete fodder that you don't need to dispel anyway.

    Also I just discovered this wiki last night, thanks to the bigass Baldur's Gate thread on SomethingAwful. It's a pretty good resource for things Baldur's Gate-related and an excellent tool to use in conjunction with Dan Simpson's FAQs on GameFAQs.

    korodullin on
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  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    there isn't really any reason to play a regular mage when you can be a sorcerer. skull trap, greater malasion, horrid wilting, time stop and wish and you are set to destroy all.

  • korodullinkorodullin What. Registered User regular
    Sorcerers are fine and dandy if you have another regular Mage backing you up with a wide variety of spells; you really shouldn't have one as your sole arcane spellcaster. Their inflexibility really hurts them in the long run, I feel.

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  • Gigazombie CybermageGigazombie Cybermage Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    Never played any of the old school PC RPGs... No Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, Planescape, Arcanum... etc. I at least have The Fallout series though. ;P

    "Come on guy I just recruited in the first town, let's go massacre the Khans for their shit! Good thing I found this SMG!"

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  • Vi MonksVi Monks Registered User regular
    As a counterargument, I feel that sorcerers are actually more flexible than wizards with the right spell selection. As a wizard, you have potential access to the perfect tool for every possible scenario. Sorcerers don't have that. No argument there. But a sorcerer can easily get a spellbook that has a pretty darn good tool for every possible scenario (if not the perfect tool), and you have the added advantage of tactical flexibility. You don't have to plan for every contingency. A wizard can set up a perfect spell selection for fighting casters and then get in trouble in a fight with a bunch of fodder and melee. Alternatively, a wizard can set up a spell selection that dabbles in both, sacrificing power for flexibility. A sorcerer doesn't have to make that decision beforehand.

    Either way, solo or in a group, either arcane caster is a powerhouse, and it can be fun to play with some of the more eclectic spells that a wizard can pick up. As a sorcerer, your toolbox is necessarily smaller. But they're both great.

  • korodullinkorodullin What. Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    Yeah, I'm not denying that a Sorcerer is a powerhouse. I guess Sorcerers and Mages are both flexible, but in opposite ways: Sorcerers gain tactical flexibility in exchange for overall strategic flexibility, and Mages have the opposite.

    I should probably also do a progress update some time, considering I've completed two major side quests and am about to finish a third.

    korodullin on
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  • Vi MonksVi Monks Registered User regular
    korodullin wrote: »
    Sorcerers gain tactical flexibility in exchange for overall strategic flexibility, and Mages have the opposite.

    This is it in a nutshell, in my opinion. Really, they're both extremely strong, so I suggest playing whichever one you find most interesting.

  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds is pumped-up. Registered User regular
    Sorcs do have one advantage: not having to hunt down rare scrolls.

    // FF14: Phyress Traydor, Spoony Bard @ Sargatanas //
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  • FrozenzenFrozenzen Registered User regular
    I am incredibly tempted to reinstall this game, find some mods and start another playtrough.

    But Enhance edition is coming "soon".

    Someone get me over the edge either way, even have the discs for bg1+2+expansions lying here :P.

    SC2EU/US: Frozenzen.437 Steam: Frozenzen
  • Vi MonksVi Monks Registered User regular
    Frozenzen wrote: »
    I am incredibly tempted to reinstall this game, find some mods and start another playtrough.

    But Enhance edition is coming "soon".

    Someone get me over the edge either way, even have the discs for bg1+2+expansions lying here :P.

    I'm in the same boat. Decided to wait though. I think when the enhanced edition comes out, I'll do a solo run with the SCS mods korodullin is using. I've played through Tactics a hundred times but never used SCS, so it could be a fun change of pace. Might try a class I've never run solo too. Maybe a druid or a bounty hunter. I'm getting excited just thinking about it!

  • RamiRami Registered User regular
    Playing through with full SCS installed as a solo druid?

    Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549 AC:NL Trading List
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  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds is pumped-up. Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    I would like to point out an often overlooked, but stupidly good frontline class, both in unmodded and modded play: Blades. Modded through RR only makes them even more rediculous at the cost of Time Stop/other Theif HLA traps in exchange for new Bard HLA (though there's still Time Stop scrolls they can cast) and improves all bard spell casting and gives Blades an extra ability. But lets talk unmodded at least and just note they only get better. Oh, and there's some really good bard-only items in the game.

    Offensive Spin: +2 hit, +2 damage, +1 attack, stacks with haste/improved haste, and all attacks to maximum damage. It's Kai (the Kensai ability) on steroids. Add in Tenser's Transformation for maximum attacks and THACO for maximum lethalaty. Use in time-stop for just silly results.

    Defensive Spin: +10 AC, non-dispellable effects of Improved Invisibility versus casters (can't be targeted by single target spells), can stack with Stoneskin and laugh, and Free Action removes the rooting-to-the-spot penalty. Turns the Blade into a super-tank for any fight that's not stupidly heavy on AoE damage. It throws the effects of so many defensive spell buffs into one single instant ability and improves them.

    As a side note for non-PC Blades, Haer'dalis gets normally "illegal" extra points in both Short Swords and Long Swords through the game as an approximation of his bonuses for being a former member of The Doomguard. It should by P&P give him a bonus point with -all- swords, but the game just gives him those (probably for balance reasons). He also gets a +1 THAC0 bonus that doesn't display as a bonus on his character stat page, but it's there.

    Oh, and one minor note for another class. Barbarian's rage will set their Con so high they naturally generate HP, will have the highest damage resistance in the game to non-magic attacks, and the highest level Hide armors are lacking in armor class compared to the best plate/leather but have the best secondary bonuses or added resistances in the game.

    Oh, and korodullin: I don't consider Harm + Invisibility/Hide in Shadows cheating at all. Harm's entire purpose is supposed to be to instagib people not prepared for it. Same logic for preemptive backstab kills.

    vagrant_winds on
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  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    Sorcs do have one advantage: not having to hunt down rare scrolls.

    Also IIRC they don't care about Intelligence.

  • DunxcoDunxco Should get a suit Never skips breakfastRegistered User regular
    Sorcs are supposed to care about Charisma, traditionally speaking. But I guess it wasn't coded in so yeah, Sorcs don't really have a stat they should pursue to help their spellcasting outside of possibly Wisdom so you don't screw up with your Wish/Limited Wish.

  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    blades are kind of useless. thief thaco, never gains any attacks per round, spin made irrelevant by improved haste. a fighter/mage is going to dish out significantly more damage and lose... uh nothing really. improved bard song.

    swashbucklers also kind of get neutered by the never gains any attacks per round thing. a fighter/thief can do crazy amounts of damage with assassinate and improved haste

    Jars on
  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds is pumped-up. Registered User regular
    Jars wrote: »
    blades are kind of useless. thief thaco, never gains any attacks per round, spin made irrelevant by improved haste. a fighter/mage is going to dish out significantly more damage and lose... uh nothing really. improved bard song.

    swashbucklers also kind of get neutered by the never gains any attacks per round thing. a fighter/thief can do crazy amounts of damage with assassinate and improved haste

    You didn't read the post did you?

    I agree with you on Fighter/Thief > Swashbucklers though.

    // FF14: Phyress Traydor, Spoony Bard @ Sargatanas //
    // PSN: vagrant_winds // 3DS: 4682-8868-5037 //
    // Steam, LoL, & WiiU: VWinds // Livestream //
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    edited April 2012
    your post doesn't say anything. bards need time stop scrolls to do that, fighter/mages don't. so they are hacking away at people with 9 attacks per round in a time stop with black blade of disaster and your bard is wishing he was doing that.

    it very specifically says that offensive spin does not stack with haste

    Jars on
  • korodullinkorodullin What. Registered User regular
    Swashbucklers are still pretty fun on their own though and arguably the best to dual-class with.

    Right now my biggest problem with my party's full-time Assassin, Shapiro, is his horrible Thief THAC0. He'll be fine come the end of SoA when I can get the Item Revisions-modified Cloak of Bravery though. It's kind of infuriating that Valygar is a more effective overall backstabber than a fucking Assassin right now.

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  • vagrant_windsvagrant_winds is pumped-up. Registered User regular
    korodullin wrote: »
    Swashbucklers are still pretty fun on their own though and arguably the best to dual-class with.

    True. Swash --> Mage or Cleric duel at lvl10/11 is pretty boss. But I wouldn't play them as a solo-class over a Fighter/Thief.

    // FF14: Phyress Traydor, Spoony Bard @ Sargatanas //
    // PSN: vagrant_winds // 3DS: 4682-8868-5037 //
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  • RedOneRedOne Registered User regular
    I decided on an arcane spellcaster for now (sort of trying to decide between sorcerer and wild mage... leaning towards wild mage)

    Mostly because of Reckless Dweomer

    Also made a Kensai that I will dual to Thief at some point depending on how I feel after my first playthrough

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  • DunxcoDunxco Should get a suit Never skips breakfastRegistered User regular
    edited April 2012
    korodullin wrote: »
    Swashbucklers are still pretty fun on their own though and arguably the best to dual-class with.

    Right now my biggest problem with my party's full-time Assassin, Shapiro, is his horrible Thief THAC0. He'll be fine come the end of SoA when I can get the Item Revisions-modified Cloak of Bravery though. It's kind of infuriating that Valygar is a more effective overall backstabber than a fucking Assassin right now.

    Really in BG2 there's absolutely no reason to play a Thief. Just go with a multi-class or dual-class a Swashbuckler at level 9 or 11 into a Cleric or Mage.

    Assassins are kinda fun though. If only for hilarious backstab gibbing.

    Dunxco on
  • KalTorakKalTorak Registered User regular
    Dunxco wrote: »
    korodullin wrote: »
    Swashbucklers are still pretty fun on their own though and arguably the best to dual-class with.

    Right now my biggest problem with my party's full-time Assassin, Shapiro, is his horrible Thief THAC0. He'll be fine come the end of SoA when I can get the Item Revisions-modified Cloak of Bravery though. It's kind of infuriating that Valygar is a more effective overall backstabber than a fucking Assassin right now.

    Really in BG2 there's absolutely no reason to play a Thief. Just go with a multi-class or dual-class a Swashbuckler at level 9 or 11 into a Cleric or Mage.

    Assassins are kinda fun though. If only for hilarious backstab gibbing.

    Especially once you get Use Any Item. x7 backstab with something like a +6 Carsomyr? Oh my.

  • korodullinkorodullin What. Registered User regular
    Staff of the Ram will do far more damage backstab-wise than Carsomyr would.

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  • SchadenfreudeSchadenfreude The DreadfortRegistered User regular
    Do you even get Backstab bonuses with Greatswords? I thought you could only backstab with weapons that single-class Thieves can be proficient in.

    Jaime Lannister sends his regards.
  • Vi MonksVi Monks Registered User regular
    korodullin wrote: »
    Staff of the Ram will do far more damage backstab-wise than Carsomyr would.

    Primarily because you can't backstab with Carsomyr, even with UAI. :P

  • korodullinkorodullin What. Registered User regular
    Vi Monks wrote: »
    korodullin wrote: »
    Staff of the Ram will do far more damage backstab-wise than Carsomyr would.

    Primarily because you can't backstab with Carsomyr, even with UAI. :P

    thatsthejokeq.jpg

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  • SummaryJudgmentSummaryJudgment Meeseeks were not born into this world fumbling for meaning, Jerry! Registered User regular
    So somebody earlier in the thread was adamant about the superiority of Wizard Slayer (15) / Thief. As someone who's thinking about playing through BG2 again, and possibly BG1 as well with Tutu or whatever mods allow for that kind of chicanery: Break it down for me a bit?

    "Class (x) / Class", like mentioned above, means that you take the first class to X level and then dual immediately upon reaching that level? So, I'm guessing you take your Wizard Slayer to level 15, get the proficiency point, and then immediately into thief. How many levels of thief will the game allow you to reach within the BG2+TOB xp cap? Is there any benefit to dualclassing earlier?

    I'm also understanding that the Wizard Slayer gets a lot of that awesomeness from (1) magic resist + Carsomyr and (2) thief class backstabbing. I know you need Use Any Item from your Thief levels in order to use Carsomyr. I take it from the post above that you can't backstab with it, though... Given that the Wizard Slayer CAN use magic weapons and armor though, would you be better off rocking the Flail of Ages / Crom Faeyr? You CAN backstab with those, right?

    Also: Do the tweak pack / fix pack / item revisions kill this class? I know you need the tweak pack to have ranged weapons apply the spell failure affect. Does item revisions kills the 50% Carsomyr magic resist?

    Another possibility: Archer/Cleric? I've seen a lot of people rave about it. Tell me about it?

    Another thing: While I've never played with Mazzy before, I did enjoy having Keldorn in my party the first time. I'd be kind of bummed about taking Carsomyr away from him? Is he viable with the Mace of Destruction (I forget the name, the undead-slaying one) or something else? Should I just grab Mazzy?

    Which brings up: Party concerns. Who should I take, for a generally good-aligned party? I'm thinking about the above Wizard Slayer / Thief as my PC, or an Archer / Cleric. I'd like to bring Imoen (as my mage), too, considering how central she is to the plot of the game. Keldorn is awesome, or Mazzy if people tell me I'm really missing out. That's three people - what about the other three?

    I've heard Jan is fun, although the slapstick is a bit odd to me. Jaheira is grating, so I don't want to bother. I've played with Minsc before, and I just wound up leaving him for Sarevok once I got to TOB. Who should I grab?

  • Vi MonksVi Monks Registered User regular
    So somebody earlier in the thread was adamant about the superiority of Wizard Slayer (15) / Thief. As someone who's thinking about playing through BG2 again, and possibly BG1 as well with Tutu or whatever mods allow for that kind of chicanery: Break it down for me a bit?

    "Class (x) / Class", like mentioned above, means that you take the first class to X level and then dual immediately upon reaching that level? So, I'm guessing you take your Wizard Slayer to level 15, get the proficiency point, and then immediately into thief. How many levels of thief will the game allow you to reach within the BG2+TOB xp cap? Is there any benefit to dualclassing earlier?

    I'm also understanding that the Wizard Slayer gets a lot of that awesomeness from (1) magic resist + Carsomyr and (2) thief class backstabbing. I know you need Use Any Item from your Thief levels in order to use Carsomyr. I take it from the post above that you can't backstab with it, though... Given that the Wizard Slayer CAN use magic weapons and armor though, would you be better off rocking the Flail of Ages / Crom Faeyr? You CAN backstab with those, right?

    Also: Do the tweak pack / fix pack / item revisions kill this class? I know you need the tweak pack to have ranged weapons apply the spell failure affect. Does item revisions kills the 50% Carsomyr magic resist?

    Another possibility: Archer/Cleric? I've seen a lot of people rave about it. Tell me about it?

    Another thing: While I've never played with Mazzy before, I did enjoy having Keldorn in my party the first time. I'd be kind of bummed about taking Carsomyr away from him? Is he viable with the Mace of Destruction (I forget the name, the undead-slaying one) or something else? Should I just grab Mazzy?

    Which brings up: Party concerns. Who should I take, for a generally good-aligned party? I'm thinking about the above Wizard Slayer / Thief as my PC, or an Archer / Cleric. I'd like to bring Imoen (as my mage), too, considering how central she is to the plot of the game. Keldorn is awesome, or Mazzy if people tell me I'm really missing out. That's three people - what about the other three?

    I've heard Jan is fun, although the slapstick is a bit odd to me. Jaheira is grating, so I don't want to bother. I've played with Minsc before, and I just wound up leaving him for Sarevok once I got to TOB. Who should I grab?

    I was the one espousing the Wizard Slayer dual Thief, and I rarely see it recommended -- which is a shame, because it's an amazing class. Dualing at 15 lets you hit level 39 thief, whereas a single class thief could hit 40, so you don't really lose out on anything. As far as weapon choice, it really depends what you're fighting. Carsomyr is great for avoiding magic damage, but it's largely unnecessary most of the time, and there are better weapons for damage. The Flail of Ages is one of the highest damage SoA weapons, so I highly recommend it in general, though you can't backstab with it. I don't know how item revision affects Carsomyr, as I don't use that mod.

    What makes the WS/Thief so strong is the cumulative spell failure. Roll a hit on a target ten times, even if you don't do any damage due to stoneskin or whatever, and that target can't use spells anymore, as well as a bunch of other abilities. And once you have UAI, any downside to rolling a wizard slayer is negated. Honestly, just a straight up wizard slayer, no dual class, is an absurdly good fighter and trivializes a ton of content. Pretty much the only class that can stand up to a WS/Thief dual for sheer powergaming strength is a sorcerer or maybe a wild mage.

    As far as Archer/Cleric, you're much better off going ranger/cleric multi so you get fighter HLAs. In the BG2 engine, a ranger/cleric dual or multiclass gets unrestricted access to druid spells. It's arguably a bug, but it makes for a very strong character. You're pretty much a fighter/druid/cleric.

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