The fact that (for now) the introductory Cataclysm area mobs have 2.5 times the health that the end zone Northrend mobs have?
I have never had trouble with Icecrown mobs, I could probably kill 2 or 3 of them at once on a brand new 80. So I think I could kill a Cataclysm mob with 2 to 3 times the HP.
That doesn't mean they're more difficult, it just means they take more time to die while they're gnawing on you for 10 damage per hit.
Well, except things actually hit a lot harder than that, and it's also a lot more dangerous if you get adds and you can't just plow through each one in five seconds.
Also, I didn't use the term "difficulty" myself, but let's just take the term loosely. Just the fact that it'll take, say, three times as long to do an equivalent kill quest when things have that much more health means things will feel slower and "harder" than they did 30 minutes ago when you were in Northrend.
The fact that (for now) the introductory Cataclysm area mobs have 2.5 times the health that the end zone Northrend mobs have?
I have never had trouble with Icecrown mobs, I could probably kill 2 or 3 of them at once on a brand new 80. So I think I could kill a Cataclysm mob with 2 to 3 times the HP.
Who said anything about not being able to kill them, or Icecrown mobs being troubling for that matter?
forty on
0
Options
reVerseAttack and Dethrone GodRegistered Userregular
That doesn't mean they're more difficult, it just means they take more time to die while they're gnawing on you for 10 damage per hit.
Well, except things actually hit a lot harder than that, and it's also a lot more dangerous if you get adds and you can't just plow through each one in five seconds.
Also, I didn't use the term "difficulty" myself, but let's just take the term loosely. Just the fact that it'll take, say, three times as long to do an equivalent kill quest when things have that much more health means things will feel slower and "harder" than they did 30 minutes ago when you were in Northrend.
That doesn't mean they're more difficult, it just means they take more time to die while they're gnawing on you for 10 damage per hit.
Well, except things actually hit a lot harder than that, and it's also a lot more dangerous if you get adds and you can't just plow through each one in five seconds.
Also, I didn't use the term "difficulty" myself, but let's just take the term loosely. Just the fact that it'll take, say, three times as long to do an equivalent kill quest when things have that much more health means things will feel slower and "harder" than they did 30 minutes ago when you were in Northrend.
Pointless semantics posts.
OK then.
forty on
0
Options
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
That doesn't mean they're more difficult, it just means they take more time to die while they're gnawing on you for 10 damage per hit.
Well, except things actually hit a lot harder than that, and it's also a lot more dangerous if you get adds and you can't just plow through each one in five seconds.
Also, I didn't use the term "difficulty" myself, but let's just take the term loosely. Just the fact that it'll take, say, three times as long to do an equivalent kill quest when things have that much more health means things will feel slower and "harder" than they did 30 minutes ago when you were in Northrend.
No, it'll just feel slower.
And this is good...how?
Blizzard seems to falling in to that MMO-trap of "slower = better". With the amount of XP it's going to take per level in Cata, now having to fight mobs that take three times as long to kill until you've built up decent gear.
That doesn't mean they're more difficult, it just means they take more time to die while they're gnawing on you for 10 damage per hit.
Well, except things actually hit a lot harder than that, and it's also a lot more dangerous if you get adds and you can't just plow through each one in five seconds.
Also, I didn't use the term "difficulty" myself, but let's just take the term loosely. Just the fact that it'll take, say, three times as long to do an equivalent kill quest when things have that much more health means things will feel slower and "harder" than they did 30 minutes ago when you were in Northrend.
That doesn't mean they're more difficult, it just means they take more time to die while they're gnawing on you for 10 damage per hit.
Well, except things actually hit a lot harder than that, and it's also a lot more dangerous if you get adds and you can't just plow through each one in five seconds.
Also, I didn't use the term "difficulty" myself, but let's just take the term loosely. Just the fact that it'll take, say, three times as long to do an equivalent kill quest when things have that much more health means things will feel slower and "harder" than they did 30 minutes ago when you were in Northrend.
This is exactly the same thing that happens at level 58 and Burning crusade. Each levels also requires mountains more XP.
Again I think the transition from wotlk 80 to cataclysm 81 will feel a lot like how vanilla 58 or 60 to BC 61 feels like.
Mobs have more health than their pre-expansion equals but Wotlk gear is miles ahead of Vanilla gear.
factor in that Cata dungeon and quest rewards are ilvl 270 or so and its going to be fine.
format on
You don't know if I am joking or not.
0
Options
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
That doesn't mean they're more difficult, it just means they take more time to die while they're gnawing on you for 10 damage per hit.
Well, except things actually hit a lot harder than that, and it's also a lot more dangerous if you get adds and you can't just plow through each one in five seconds.
Also, I didn't use the term "difficulty" myself, but let's just take the term loosely. Just the fact that it'll take, say, three times as long to do an equivalent kill quest when things have that much more health means things will feel slower and "harder" than they did 30 minutes ago when you were in Northrend.
This is exactly the same thing that happens at level 58 and Burning crusade. Each levels also requires mountains more XP.
Again I think the transition from wotlk 80 to cataclysm 81 will feel a lot like how vanilla 58 or 60 to BC 61 feels like.
Mobs have more health than their pre-expansion equals but Wotlk gear is miles ahead of Vanilla gear.
factor in that Cata dungeon and quest rewards are ilvl 270 or so and its going to be fine.
Except that in no previous expansion did the mobs gain 2.5x the HP between "tiers" like they will in Cata. Yes, we all agree it will be "fine" once players complete 15 or 20 quests in Cata and start stacking ilvl270 gear. Our point is that those first quests are going to feel like killers, especially if you're a fresh 80 that isn't loaded down with high ilvl Wrath gear.
(Also, people keep talking like going in to Outlands at 58 is some big deal, it's not. The different between level 60 Azeroth mobs and level 60 Outlands mobs is like 20%, not 250% as Blizzard is going with Wrath -> Cata).
That doesn't mean they're more difficult, it just means they take more time to die while they're gnawing on you for 10 damage per hit.
Well, except things actually hit a lot harder than that, and it's also a lot more dangerous if you get adds and you can't just plow through each one in five seconds.
Also, I didn't use the term "difficulty" myself, but let's just take the term loosely. Just the fact that it'll take, say, three times as long to do an equivalent kill quest when things have that much more health means things will feel slower and "harder" than they did 30 minutes ago when you were in Northrend.
This is exactly the same thing that happens at level 58 and Burning crusade. Each levels also requires mountains more XP.
Again I think the transition from wotlk 80 to cataclysm 81 will feel a lot like how vanilla 58 or 60 to BC 61 feels like.
Mobs have more health than their pre-expansion equals but Wotlk gear is miles ahead of Vanilla gear.
factor in that Cata dungeon and quest rewards are ilvl 270 or so and its going to be fine.
I didn't say anything about the levels or XP curves. All I have talked about is how long it takes to kill individual mobs, which has remained largely consistent from, say, 20-80.
And, no, mobs do not have significantly more health than their pre-expansion equals. For equal level mobs, the increase is on the order of 10-20%. 250% is a completely different kind of jump.
Edit: Way to make the same post as GnomeTank but slower, me!
It's not that big a deal. Things die slower, but that's really the only change that's been made, and it doesn't translate into drastically more difficult content. It's perhaps more difficult in the sense that you can no longer breeze through normal mobs literally without breaking stride, but that's a good change anyway.
Javen on
0
Options
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
It's not that big a deal. Things die slower, but that's really the only change that's been made, and it doesn't translate into drastically more difficult content. It's perhaps more difficult in the sense that you can no longer breeze through normal mobs literally without breaking stride, but that's a good change anyway.
A good change for whom? I quite like feeling like a bad ass when I am out soloing. If I want to feel minuscule and weak, I'll go run dungeons or raid, or go solo elites. No one said it's more difficult, we said it's slower and more boring.
And, no, mobs do not have significantly more health than their pre-expansion equals. For equal level mobs, the increase is on the order of 10-20%. 250% is a completely different kind of jump.
Edit: Way to make the same post as GnomeTank but slower, me!
I think level 80 (even quest reward) gear makes up some of that 250% jump, in terms of damage output and HP levels.
A level 80 in quest blues will do what, just under 3k sustained dps. with a much higher burst dps. so with a 250% hp jump we are talking of a difference from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.
It's not that big a deal. Things die slower, but that's really the only change that's been made, and it doesn't translate into drastically more difficult content. It's perhaps more difficult in the sense that you can no longer breeze through normal mobs literally without breaking stride, but that's a good change anyway.
If you play WoW for some sort of "challenge" in grinding solo quest content, then I don't know what to say.
And again, the main effect this has is adding an awkward transition stage for fresh 80s vs. the assorted epiced out 80s who will just be getting subtle upgrades from early Cataclysm rewards. If the design intent is for your average leveling character to feel like a total gimp for a while when going back to Azeroth, then OK, so be it.
forty on
0
Options
GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
Feeling badass is one thing. Trust me, if cata quests are good at one thing, it's making you feel like a badass. Feeling invincible is quite another.
And how is higher mob health more boring? More boring than pulling half a dozen mobs and spamming a single aoe attack? More boring than that?
Actually AE grinding as my mage was one of the more fun and exciting things I could so solo as a mage. If you're pulling things close to your level, it's actually quite a rush to keep them all away from you and taking damage, knowing if enough get close and start dazing you, and lowering your cast bar, you could get overwhelmed pretty fast.
Probably this means getting dazed a lot more for me. I hate daze so much.
Edit: anyway, for geared mains not a huge deal I think, but for a green 78-80, I'm sort of curious if we'll still see the same trend of rushing to the next expansion's content.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
Probably this means getting dazed a lot more for me. I hate daze so much.
Edit: anyway, for geared mains not a huge deal I think, but for a green 78-80, I'm sort of curious if we'll still see the same trend of rushing to the next expansion's content.
I bet you shout "Don't daze me bro!" when chain dotting, don't ya?
It's not that big a deal. Things die slower, but that's really the only change that's been made, and it doesn't translate into drastically more difficult content. It's perhaps more difficult in the sense that you can no longer breeze through normal mobs literally without breaking stride, but that's a good change anyway.
If you play WoW for some sort of "challenge" in grinding solo quest content, then I don't know what to say.
And again, the main effect this has is adding an awkward transition stage for fresh 80s vs. the assorted epiced out 80s who will just be getting subtle upgrades from early Cataclysm rewards. If the design intent is for your average leveling character to feel like a total gimp for a while when going back to Azeroth, then OK, so be it.
and then you do 20 quests and a dungeon to get caught up again. not a big deal.
Probably this means getting dazed a lot more for me. I hate daze so much.
Edit: anyway, for geared mains not a huge deal I think, but for a green 78-80, I'm sort of curious if we'll still see the same trend of rushing to the next expansion's content.
Well, a 78-79 apparently won't be able to go to the next expansion's content. And an 80 still will want to, just to start getting the 270+ gear ASAP, he'll just have to slog through more tedium than he's used to.
It's not that big a deal. Things die slower, but that's really the only change that's been made, and it doesn't translate into drastically more difficult content. It's perhaps more difficult in the sense that you can no longer breeze through normal mobs literally without breaking stride, but that's a good change anyway.
If you play WoW for some sort of "challenge" in grinding solo quest content, then I don't know what to say.
And again, the main effect this has is adding an awkward transition stage for fresh 80s vs. the assorted epiced out 80s who will just be getting subtle upgrades from early Cataclysm rewards. If the design intent is for your average leveling character to feel like a total gimp for a while when going back to Azeroth, then OK, so be it.
Well, I don't NOW, because everything dies far too quickly. But solo content BECOMING sort of challenging is a very good thing.
Well, a 78-79 apparently won't be able to go to the next expansion's content. And an 80 still will want to, just to start getting the 270+ gear ASAP, he'll just have to slog through more tedium than he's used to.
Oh? I thought they were just restricting when you could enter dungeons.
That's very interesting.
End on
I wish that someway, somehow, that I could save every one of us
It's not that big a deal. Things die slower, but that's really the only change that's been made, and it doesn't translate into drastically more difficult content. It's perhaps more difficult in the sense that you can no longer breeze through normal mobs literally without breaking stride, but that's a good change anyway.
If you play WoW for some sort of "challenge" in grinding solo quest content, then I don't know what to say.
And again, the main effect this has is adding an awkward transition stage for fresh 80s vs. the assorted epiced out 80s who will just be getting subtle upgrades from early Cataclysm rewards. If the design intent is for your average leveling character to feel like a total gimp for a while when going back to Azeroth, then OK, so be it.
and then you do 20 quests and a dungeon to get caught up again. not a big deal.
Well, a 78-79 apparently won't be able to go to the next expansion's content. And an 80 still will want to, just to start getting the 270+ gear ASAP, he'll just have to slog through more tedium than he's used to.
Oh? I thought they were just restricting when you could enter dungeons.
That's very interesting.
Well, according to the post the minimum level is being changed from 78 80. Perhaps they're just making it so that you can't get quests until 80, since I don't know if they really have the mechanics to keep a level 78 from just flying into the zone. But I guess that would be enough to have about the same effect. It's not going to be worth grinding high health mobs in shit gear and not getting any loot for it beyond occasional BoEs that usually aren't for your spec.
But solo content BECOMING sort of challenging is a very good thing.
When will this happen?
Around Deepholm. Many quest chains and named mobs utilize one or several abilities that wouldn't seem out of place in a 5 man dungeon encounter that really can't be brute forced while levelling, if at all. The final battle in Hyjal is legitimately difficult unless you bring ten people along (it's set up like the Battle for Undercity where there's a timer and as many people can join without having to be grouped.)
That would have been pertinent information to have in the Blizzard post. That's still about double health, but that's less bad, assuming level 79s don't have much more and that there aren't level 80 things in the intro areas.
The average jump in health per level seems to be about 5k. 78 has a little over 21k, 80 with about 30.5, 83 having almost 49k. Named, non elite mobs also get a boost in health to seemingly fill the gap between normal thralls and elite "kick your ass" mobs. I can't remember what they were in hyjal, but elite mobs in deepholm had about 300k, while "named" mobs had about half that.
Posts
I have never had trouble with Icecrown mobs, I could probably kill 2 or 3 of them at once on a brand new 80. So I think I could kill a Cataclysm mob with 2 to 3 times the HP.
Also, I didn't use the term "difficulty" myself, but let's just take the term loosely. Just the fact that it'll take, say, three times as long to do an equivalent kill quest when things have that much more health means things will feel slower and "harder" than they did 30 minutes ago when you were in Northrend.
No, it'll just feel slower.
Edit: Although, I guess experience is one of the last things to get finalized.
And this is good...how?
Blizzard seems to falling in to that MMO-trap of "slower = better". With the amount of XP it's going to take per level in Cata, now having to fight mobs that take three times as long to kill until you've built up decent gear.
It's not.
This is exactly the same thing that happens at level 58 and Burning crusade. Each levels also requires mountains more XP.
Again I think the transition from wotlk 80 to cataclysm 81 will feel a lot like how vanilla 58 or 60 to BC 61 feels like.
Mobs have more health than their pre-expansion equals but Wotlk gear is miles ahead of Vanilla gear.
factor in that Cata dungeon and quest rewards are ilvl 270 or so and its going to be fine.
Except that in no previous expansion did the mobs gain 2.5x the HP between "tiers" like they will in Cata. Yes, we all agree it will be "fine" once players complete 15 or 20 quests in Cata and start stacking ilvl270 gear. Our point is that those first quests are going to feel like killers, especially if you're a fresh 80 that isn't loaded down with high ilvl Wrath gear.
(Also, people keep talking like going in to Outlands at 58 is some big deal, it's not. The different between level 60 Azeroth mobs and level 60 Outlands mobs is like 20%, not 250% as Blizzard is going with Wrath -> Cata).
And, no, mobs do not have significantly more health than their pre-expansion equals. For equal level mobs, the increase is on the order of 10-20%. 250% is a completely different kind of jump.
Edit: Way to make the same post as GnomeTank but slower, me!
A good change for whom? I quite like feeling like a bad ass when I am out soloing. If I want to feel minuscule and weak, I'll go run dungeons or raid, or go solo elites. No one said it's more difficult, we said it's slower and more boring.
I think level 80 (even quest reward) gear makes up some of that 250% jump, in terms of damage output and HP levels.
A level 80 in quest blues will do what, just under 3k sustained dps. with a much higher burst dps. so with a 250% hp jump we are talking of a difference from 5 seconds to 10 seconds.
And how is higher mob health more boring? More boring than pulling half a dozen mobs and spamming a single aoe attack? More boring than that?
And again, the main effect this has is adding an awkward transition stage for fresh 80s vs. the assorted epiced out 80s who will just be getting subtle upgrades from early Cataclysm rewards. If the design intent is for your average leveling character to feel like a total gimp for a while when going back to Azeroth, then OK, so be it.
Actually AE grinding as my mage was one of the more fun and exciting things I could so solo as a mage. If you're pulling things close to your level, it's actually quite a rush to keep them all away from you and taking damage, knowing if enough get close and start dazing you, and lowering your cast bar, you could get overwhelmed pretty fast.
Probably this means getting dazed a lot more for me. I hate daze so much.
Edit: anyway, for geared mains not a huge deal I think, but for a green 78-80, I'm sort of curious if we'll still see the same trend of rushing to the next expansion's content.
Ps4 : Gigawatt666
Steam I.D. : Gigawatt666
LoL : GiG4W4TT
I bet you shout "Don't daze me bro!" when chain dotting, don't ya?
and then you do 20 quests and a dungeon to get caught up again. not a big deal.
Well, I don't NOW, because everything dies far too quickly. But solo content BECOMING sort of challenging is a very good thing.
Oh? I thought they were just restricting when you could enter dungeons.
That's very interesting.
Around Deepholm. Many quest chains and named mobs utilize one or several abilities that wouldn't seem out of place in a 5 man dungeon encounter that really can't be brute forced while levelling, if at all. The final battle in Hyjal is legitimately difficult unless you bring ten people along (it's set up like the Battle for Undercity where there's a timer and as many people can join without having to be grouped.)
I can't imagine a fresh 80 having much trouble with em.