L. Ron Hubbard said "If you want to get rich, you start a religion"; the modern-day equivalent is "If you want to get rich, you make a Kickstarter targeting nerds with poor impulse-control".
(Editor's Note: Not actually accurate, but let me have my fun.)
No one wishes Exalted actually worked more than the publisher, I'm sure. Maybe it just doesn't work. It didn't for either 1st or 2nd Edition. The Storyteller System may just be a poor framework for the over-the-top action the game is trying to convey. You can try to shoehorn it as much as you like, you might not going to end up with something neat and tidy.
I doubt anyone would disagree with you on that. It was my understanding that Onyx Path is pretty bad at communication right around up to a few months from publishing. Thought apparently Awakening 2 has been better?
Awakening 2 has been great in that sense and the regular dev blogs and presence of DaveB on their forums has made everyone feel very informed, I think. And OP have made good with their Trinity/Scion system preview, put up a full Dark Ages preview etc. Exalted is an aberration in many ways.
The mage playerbase is also less mental than the exalted playerbase which helps a lot. But the exalted playerbase has also been whipped up by the constant delays, lack if information, often caustic dev attitudes towards any Exalted which is not their way and so on.
Does anybody know if any of the others (Changeling, Hunter, Geist, Mummy) are gearing up for 2.0 rules any time soon?
I don't have an answer for this but is 2.0 rules this V20 stuff or is it updated rules for the NWoD?
"...20" refers to the 20th anniversary edition release of old/original world of darkness stuff. V20 refers to Vampire: the Masquerade 20th anniversary, for example. nWoD 2.0 is a reference to the Vampire: the Requiem rules that were updated after the God Machine Chronicle was developed.
Shame the Ex3 KS has been such a charlie foxtrot, really
What happened with it? I know the Mage20 has been....slow. But the book was over +600 pages
Where to start, holy crap.
Keep in mind, I backed the damn thing for $370, and I've given up any hope of ever using it, or any interest in supporting the game line that follows. So I'm not exactly an impartial observer.
- August 2010, "Return of the Scarlet Empress", was almost the final Exalted book. It was a major undertaking, but poorly received, and White Wolf was already on the fence about keeping the line going. Exalted had been drifting without a lead developer for some time, and because this book featured similar content to the various End Times books that killed off the Classic World of Darkness, it's easy to see how the publisher would have thought it was a fitting wreath to lay on Exalted's coffin, rather than struggle to revamp it. RotSE was the final Exalted product with a physical copy as the default version (with a switch to digital/print-on-demand for everything after), and therefore the last to have any shelf presence in Game Stores.
- The Ink Monkey's Blog, run by several unpaid freelancers, managed to keep the game on life support. Ink Monkeys was made of a mix of material that hadn't made the editing cut for old books, brand new material, and aggressive errata triage for a 2nd Edition rule system that was widely seen as deeply flawed. Three major post-RotSE releases were managed by the Ink Monkeys, and all three received very favorable reviews. The current development team and core freelancer group is largely drawn from former Ink Monkeys, who had a lot of fan goodwill stored up, despite the delays. Ink Monkeys was discontinued when 3E work began in earnest however, so it's not still around to sustain interest.
- July 2012 - Shards of the Exalted Dream was released, the last Exalted book. It's been almost three years since then.
- When the possibility of a 3rd Edition came to light around the time that Shards was released, they started drumming up support for the Kickstarter immediately... and then took almost another year to actually launch it. So even before the whole thing went live a lot of fans were already pretty fatigued of the whole process.
- May 9th through June 8th 2013, the Exalted Kickstarter's funding period.
- October through December 2013, the Kickstarter's listed estimates for rewards shipping.
- At some point during this period, it was announced that Michael Goodwin, one of the last freelancers whose work stretched all the way back to 1st Edition, had left the project due to creative differences.
- May 2014, the Backer Survey was sent out. They had repeatedly told us that would be one of the final steps before it was just about ready to ship, to avoid having to correct too many shipping addresses. More than a year later, they're probably going to have to wrangle a second survey somehow.
- June 2014, one of the playtesters leaked the testing documents. I haven't personally examined the leak, because I have stern moral opinions about that sort of thing, but what I can gather from public discussion is that it wasn't as innovative and awe-inspiring as everyone had built it up to be in their imaginations.
- John Morke, lead developer, entered a period of major and chronic health problems. "Tabletop RPG developer" isn't exactly a lucrative career path any more, and he had to resort extensively to crowdfunding to cover his medical bills. This caused several months of delays, but all but a handful of critics seemed willing to give the poor guy a break. There are some who continue to assert that it was an elaborate hoax to milk us of more funds, however. Having those kinds of lunatics defining the furthest ends of an argument shifts the "middle ground" into much nastier territory, I'm afraid.
- January 2015, the book's text was completed and submitted for layout and art. About three months into layout is when I personally gave up hope on the project, just a couple months ago. I fully expect to get the book some day, but my Exalted players are long gone, and I don't care enough any more to make the effort to replace them.
- A gradually-building surge of frustration finally boiled over, and the Onyx Path forums experienced a wave of mass bans. Rich Thomas reacted by threatening to shut off all communication. The Kickstarter comments have been pretty hostile since then.
- The Developers have retreated entirely from the official forums, and only freelancers Robert Vance and Stephen Lea Shepard still seem to post. This is probably for the best, though. Lead Developer John Morke had a tendency to be abrupt and enigmatic, and Co-Developer Holden Shearer famously began his association with White Wolf as an aggressive troll on the official forums, and still has some lessons to learn about communication. They're both very skilled game writers, but both very poor at community interaction. Other Co-Developer Geoffrey Grabowski has avoided the spotlight entirely. While it was a fairly major source of excitement that he was back on board, since he was the celebrated Lead Developer of the 1st Edition, at this point it's unclear if he's still involved.
- Since then, weekly updates have typically consisted of a single sentence that could be summarized as "still working on it", and they've forgotten to include even that much several times.
Desert Leviathan on
Realizing lately that I don't really trust or respect basically any of the moderators here. So, good luck with life, friends! Hit me up on Twitter @DesertLeviathan
As an addendum, there was a second leak earlier in 2015, of what was ostensibly supposed to be considerably closer to the completed text.
May 2015, rpg.net updates its rules to relax bans on discussed leaked RPG material due to the massive elephant in the room in every Exalted discussion of the site. Multiple threads spring up reviewing the leaked documents, a long-running (eighty odd pages I think?) thread also exists filled with people who have essentially given up on the game and don't care for Ex3, the devs, their vision and so on.
Ex3 is certainly the most controversial RPG release that I've ever heard of. Lots of drama!
So those pdfs from the Beast kickstarter are the first editions. I thought maybe they'd be the updated versions or something. The main WoD book is, but the rest are the originals. Still a great deal, just less attractive to me personally.
The Data Principle is a rival to Zero-Point Correspondence Theory introduced in the 2012 NWO book. It is to information as Correspondence is to location. The NWO can now feasibly surveil every single Technocrat, Sympathizer, and Extraordinary Citizen in the developed world. Except those with Cloaking. :cool: :crackle: :tell_me_more:
Dimension Science and its availability, like most Technocracy stuff, depends on metaplot. Primal Econ is proprietary, but the NWO teaches Data to its friends.
So those pdfs from the Beast kickstarter are the first editions. I thought maybe they'd be the updated versions or something. The main WoD book is, but the rest are the originals. Still a great deal, just less attractive to me personally.
It is whichever version is being sold in stores as of when they issue the rewards, per Richard Thomas.
So Demon, Beast, Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, and Promethean will definitely be "2.0" rules. I'm guessing Changeling may also be by then.
The Data Principle is a rival to Zero-Point Correspondence Theory introduced in the 2012 NWO book. It is to information as Correspondence is to location. The NWO can now feasibly surveil every single Technocrat, Sympathizer, and Extraordinary Citizen in the developed world. Except those with Cloaking. :cool: :crackle: :tell_me_more:
Dimension Science and its availability, like most Technocracy stuff, depends on metaplot. Primal Econ is proprietary, but the NWO teaches Data to its friends.
Yeah Data seems pretty damn cool. And new Prime makes sense but mostly I just want the Syndicate to be revealed as completely responsible for the nephandi infection.
From the Syndicate's perspective, Pentex is a company that makes shit people want, and the Special Projects Division was a big Amalgam/baby Methodology that makes cool toys. That's it.
It's picking up from Gehenna? That should be interesting.
And set in the modern-day. You thought the Masqurade before was hard, let's jump to our very connected, YouTube crazed, Big Brother's got cameras everywhere world and see how the old heads keep up the charade.
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It's picking up from Gehenna? That should be interesting.
And set in the modern-day. You thought the Masqurade before was hard, let's jump to our very connected, YouTube crazed, Big Brother's got cameras everywhere world and see how the old heads keep up the charade.
Hunter was the very first WoD game I was introduced to, and I have a huge soft spot for it. I'd love to see it get a dose of "20th Anniversary" polish.
Honestly they could probably do Hunter and Demon in the same book, since those two books only got one edition each, and also they were somewhat related to each other, were they not?
Hell, maybe even through Wraith in there? Dunno about Mummy.
Honestly they could probably do Hunter and Demon in the same book, since those two books only got one edition each, and also they were somewhat related to each other, were they not?
Hell, maybe even through Wraith in there? Dunno about Mummy.
Yeah, Wraith came out before Changeling so they kind of had to do that first if they had any hope of maintaining the "20th Anniversary" pretense. (Although it came out in 1994, so it's already a year late, and will be two by the time it comes out)
And while Demon and Hunter were related on a metaplot level
Oh hey, I didn't know that! I only ever read a couple of the Hunter source/splatbooks, and they were all from early on in the game's publishing cycle, so the metaplot was still more on the mysterious side. Is there some online resource that describes the metaplot, and maybe lists the connections to the other games? I remember sinking a lot of time into the Unofficial White Wolf wiki, but although all of the VtM articles on there are super-detailed, the ones related to the other games tend to be more spartan.
Posts
But a print edition is so tempting.
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Hmmm
(Editor's Note: Not actually accurate, but let me have my fun.)
Percentage of goal raised - Exalted got 1141%; Mage20 got 961%
Total amount pledged - Exalted got $684,755; Mage20 got $672,899
Total backers - Exalted got 4368; Mage20 got 3926
Average amount pledged per backer - Mage20 got $171; Exalted got $156
In all categories but the last those are the first and second most. Werewolf20 got the actual highest average pledged per backer with $180.
What happened with it? I know the Mage20 has been....slow. But the book was over +600 pages
I'm more just aggravated by the KS handling, fuck all previews, crap backer and fanbase communications etc.
The mage playerbase is also less mental than the exalted playerbase which helps a lot. But the exalted playerbase has also been whipped up by the constant delays, lack if information, often caustic dev attitudes towards any Exalted which is not their way and so on.
I don't have an answer for this but is 2.0 rules this V20 stuff or is it updated rules for the NWoD?
"...20" refers to the 20th anniversary edition release of old/original world of darkness stuff. V20 refers to Vampire: the Masquerade 20th anniversary, for example. nWoD 2.0 is a reference to the Vampire: the Requiem rules that were updated after the God Machine Chronicle was developed.
Where to start, holy crap.
Keep in mind, I backed the damn thing for $370, and I've given up any hope of ever using it, or any interest in supporting the game line that follows. So I'm not exactly an impartial observer.
- The Ink Monkey's Blog, run by several unpaid freelancers, managed to keep the game on life support. Ink Monkeys was made of a mix of material that hadn't made the editing cut for old books, brand new material, and aggressive errata triage for a 2nd Edition rule system that was widely seen as deeply flawed. Three major post-RotSE releases were managed by the Ink Monkeys, and all three received very favorable reviews. The current development team and core freelancer group is largely drawn from former Ink Monkeys, who had a lot of fan goodwill stored up, despite the delays. Ink Monkeys was discontinued when 3E work began in earnest however, so it's not still around to sustain interest.
- July 2012 - Shards of the Exalted Dream was released, the last Exalted book. It's been almost three years since then.
- When the possibility of a 3rd Edition came to light around the time that Shards was released, they started drumming up support for the Kickstarter immediately... and then took almost another year to actually launch it. So even before the whole thing went live a lot of fans were already pretty fatigued of the whole process.
- May 9th through June 8th 2013, the Exalted Kickstarter's funding period.
- October through December 2013, the Kickstarter's listed estimates for rewards shipping.
- At some point during this period, it was announced that Michael Goodwin, one of the last freelancers whose work stretched all the way back to 1st Edition, had left the project due to creative differences.
- May 2014, the Backer Survey was sent out. They had repeatedly told us that would be one of the final steps before it was just about ready to ship, to avoid having to correct too many shipping addresses. More than a year later, they're probably going to have to wrangle a second survey somehow.
- June 2014, one of the playtesters leaked the testing documents. I haven't personally examined the leak, because I have stern moral opinions about that sort of thing, but what I can gather from public discussion is that it wasn't as innovative and awe-inspiring as everyone had built it up to be in their imaginations.
- John Morke, lead developer, entered a period of major and chronic health problems. "Tabletop RPG developer" isn't exactly a lucrative career path any more, and he had to resort extensively to crowdfunding to cover his medical bills. This caused several months of delays, but all but a handful of critics seemed willing to give the poor guy a break. There are some who continue to assert that it was an elaborate hoax to milk us of more funds, however. Having those kinds of lunatics defining the furthest ends of an argument shifts the "middle ground" into much nastier territory, I'm afraid.
- January 2015, the book's text was completed and submitted for layout and art. About three months into layout is when I personally gave up hope on the project, just a couple months ago. I fully expect to get the book some day, but my Exalted players are long gone, and I don't care enough any more to make the effort to replace them.
- A gradually-building surge of frustration finally boiled over, and the Onyx Path forums experienced a wave of mass bans. Rich Thomas reacted by threatening to shut off all communication. The Kickstarter comments have been pretty hostile since then.
- The Developers have retreated entirely from the official forums, and only freelancers Robert Vance and Stephen Lea Shepard still seem to post. This is probably for the best, though. Lead Developer John Morke had a tendency to be abrupt and enigmatic, and Co-Developer Holden Shearer famously began his association with White Wolf as an aggressive troll on the official forums, and still has some lessons to learn about communication. They're both very skilled game writers, but both very poor at community interaction. Other Co-Developer Geoffrey Grabowski has avoided the spotlight entirely. While it was a fairly major source of excitement that he was back on board, since he was the celebrated Lead Developer of the 1st Edition, at this point it's unclear if he's still involved.
- Since then, weekly updates have typically consisted of a single sentence that could be summarized as "still working on it", and they've forgotten to include even that much several times.
May 2015, rpg.net updates its rules to relax bans on discussed leaked RPG material due to the massive elephant in the room in every Exalted discussion of the site. Multiple threads spring up reviewing the leaked documents, a long-running (eighty odd pages I think?) thread also exists filled with people who have essentially given up on the game and don't care for Ex3, the devs, their vision and so on.
Ex3 is certainly the most controversial RPG release that I've ever heard of. Lots of drama!
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
Dimension Science and its availability, like most Technocracy stuff, depends on metaplot. Primal Econ is proprietary, but the NWO teaches Data to its friends.
It is whichever version is being sold in stores as of when they issue the rewards, per Richard Thomas.
So Demon, Beast, Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, and Promethean will definitely be "2.0" rules. I'm guessing Changeling may also be by then.
Yeah Data seems pretty damn cool. And new Prime makes sense but mostly I just want the Syndicate to be revealed as completely responsible for the nephandi infection.
I really hope Technocracy Reloaded has mission parameters and the fiddly bits of Conditioning.
From my point of view the Jedi are evil!
They tried to bury us. They didn't know that we were seeds. 2018 Midterms. Get your shit together.
I mean we're talking about Mage. Objective is, like, the name of a Paradox Spirit.
http://theonyxpath.com/vampire-the-masquerade-4th-edition-announced-at-gen-con/
And set in the modern-day. You thought the Masqurade before was hard, let's jump to our very connected, YouTube crazed, Big Brother's got cameras everywhere world and see how the old heads keep up the charade.
Can't wait.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/10/29/paradox-white-wolf/
http://www.white-wolf.com
http://theonyxpath.com/shattered-smothered-covered-chunked-diced-peppered-capped-and-topped-monday-meeting-notes/
Nice to see that at least the big 5 will be getting the 20th treatment. I wonder if, Paradox permitting, they'll get into Hunter, Mummy and Demon.
Hell, maybe even through Wraith in there? Dunno about Mummy.
Wraith already got it's 20th anniversary kickstarter.
And while Demon and Hunter were related on a metaplot level, they're really their own separate lines with their own power sets, themes and playstyles.