They are so easy anybody can do them. The issue is that nobody wants to do the tanking part, and to a lesser extent the healing part.
I don't do the healing thing because I don't think it's fair to make others suffer like that. I'm not great at it and trying to heal a Cata instance is very challenging to me.
I've gotten more comfortable with tanking but some fights are still a challenge. I'm not always in the mood to tank though.
You talk about tanking and healing as though it's some exalted role that lots of people "have no business" filling, then get mad when there aren't enough tanks. Fucking please. There isn't more responsibility on the shoulders of the tank. On lots of fights, the tank is actually responsible for much less than the DPS (or the healer) are.
The dps that queue up as tanks, in their dps spec and gear, DON'T have any business filling that role. Neither do the ones using non-plate and/or caster gear. Gotta have the right tools for the job. It's just not going to work very well otherwise. The ones who didn't come prepared are just wasting other people's time.
New to tanking/healing? I can be patient. Hoping to have your ass carried(or even better...someone quit in frustration so a real tank/healer comes in).....die in a fire.
It's not so much which role is more necessary or has more responsibility as it is people needing to pull their own weight.
Healing isn't too bad, it's just you're dependent on the rest of the group in terms of the gear you and everyone has, and if people are going to ignore mechanics or play properly.
In an ideal world, groups would CC stuff, interupt spells, not stand in harmful things. If a group did all those things, then you as a healer, would have a relatively easy time.
However, due to an attitude of faster is better, CC is pointless if you have the gear and paying attention to mechanics in boss fights just makes the fight last longer (I assume people are trying to find a cure for cancer), then you, as a healer, are in for a rough time in the pug system, especially if you're gearing up. There is also so very little tolerance if a wipe occurs.
I've healed heroics where the tank had 200k health, and I had to spam heal the guy to keep him up, because he couldn't be bothered to wait for CC. I've been on runs where I've asked "can't we use CC?" and just gotten replies "we don't need it" (alright, the group is alive at the end of the pull, but why they don't mark up some CC's while they wait for me to drink, as opposed to just standing there, I don't know).
It's very easy for the group to blame the healer for a wipe; after all, if you're dead, you obviously didn't get healed.
I'm not super fussed about most of this rewards for the most needed class (ie tanks) although I don't think it will achieve much. But what doesn't sit right is the mounts/pets. At the moment I'm trying to get the white hawkstrider from Magister's Terrace. Every day for months (I'm on about 60-70 kills, hard to be exact since I've done some on normal) I go in there, kill the bosses and see if it drops. And it hasn't. But I don't mind, because one day it will, and then I'll have it because I jumped through the hoops. And anyone I see with it, I know they went through the same process.
Once this change comes in 4.1, the mount won't feel the same to me. Not because other people have it, good luck to them. But because whenever I see it I won't think "hey, that guy did the grind, same as me". What I'll think is "hey, there's that mount lots of people have who just ran a random heroic and got it in a bag". GG immersiveness. It sucks some of the soul out of collecting - I like collecting
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GrobianWhat's on sale?Pliers!Registered Userregular
edited April 2011
The chance in the bag might be even less than the chance to drop. We know nothing about the drop rates right now.
At this point it's starting to feel like the theme of 4.1 is band aid attempts to fix larger underlying problems with the game. Seems like everything in it is some form of hastily cobbled together stop gap.
Firelands better be Karazhan/Ulduar level fucking amazing.
I honestly don't understand the love for Karazhan beyond the atmosphere of the place. There were so many things wrong with it when it first came out, and some things remained "annoying" even with all the fixes.
I think most of the hate for karazhan just comes from the fact that people ran it so. many. times, for loot and then for alts and then eventually for badges and because it was the only 10 man instance forever. As a raid there's a lot to like about it, aside from too much trash at some parts.
t this point it's starting to feel like the theme of 4.1 is band aid attempts to fix larger underlying problems with the game. Seems like everything in it is some form of hastily cobbled together stop gap.
Yeah, this is my only issue with the whole tank/healer incentive thing. It's like, hmm, rather than try to figure out why nobody wants to play a tank and adjust game design accordingly, let's just pay people to do it. Wonderful.
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
I honestly don't understand the love for Karazhan beyond the atmosphere of the place. There were so many things wrong with it when it first came out, and some things remained "annoying" even with all the fixes.
Atmosphere goes a LONG way, especially when going back for that full clear for the tenth time or learning heroic boss X
I honestly don't understand the love for Karazhan beyond the atmosphere of the place. There were so many things wrong with it when it first came out, and some things remained "annoying" even with all the fixes.
Horribly designed place. Worst raid in BC, hands freaking down.
The trash was a pain in terms of the amount there was between certain bosses in addition to the spawn rate.
The worst examples include
The Ushers ice-blocking tanks, and being Taunt immune
The trash from the Curator, to the Shade. There was so much of it, even if you skipped a fair chunk of it, it still took a while; what made it even worse, that trash was tied to the Shade, who was tightly tuned when the raid initially came out. You'd have 4-5 goes trying to learn the guy, and then you were faced with another 30 mins of clearing trash to have another go.
Then some fights completely borked certain specs (eg a paladin tank on the Maiden).
The general range bias that was present in all heroics in TBC as well (I was initially a rogue in TBC, and heroics and Kara was an exercise in pain). Raids were nearly always better having range.
When the place came out originally, the loot was rubbish. Then they buffed it, but it was still all over the place.
It's mentioned that hate might stem from having to run it so often, but considering alot of upgrades were only in the latter half, and you had to wade you way through the first half all the time, I'll blame Kara for the fact I dragged dozens of tanks through the place gearing them up, and then seeing them quit for whatever reason, and having to drag another tank through the place again.
Then the Prince! Yeah, you could negate some of the bad luck (or use the exploit) of whether your tank and melee could end up boxed by infernals, or just bust out all the cooldowns in attempt to get p2 over so quickly that you didn't see your tank in 10 man gear get obliterated by an unfortunate windfury hit, but the fight still sucked.
Yeah, this is my only issue with the whole tank/healer incentive thing. It's like, hmm, rather than try to figure out why nobody wants to play a tank and adjust game design accordingly, let's just pay people to do it. Wonderful.
Nobody wants to tank because it does come with more responsibility than other roles. People expect the tanks to lead, and all the crap that comes with it like knowing what to pull, what to CC, how bosses work, etc. The actual act of tanking is probably the dirt ass easiest thing in the game to do. Relatively simple rotations, super easy itemization that is hard to really fuck up, and usually the most complex bullshit that might ever get foisted off onto you is a tank swap or maybe kite something. But nobody wants to do it because knowing all that shit is "hard." I.e. requires more game awareness and sense than most casual players are willing or able to muster.
So they queue as dps and faceroll their keys and do 8k damage as I just sit there, quietly weeping when I am on my tank or healer, or sighing when I am on my dps.
Sure, as a paladin. In wrath, I'd chain queue heroics for easy points on my paladin tank.
Tanking as a warrior has like 50 billion abilities and pulling is a chore because of the rage mechanic. Way too much effort for a bunch of people I don't know and probably don't like. If I have to pug, I'd rather sit in queue for 20 minutes while playing windowed games or reading than expend that much effort.
I'm sorry but this was a pet peeve of mine in the day. I would help out so many raids who'd tank him in a spot, then get an infernal to one side of the tank or the ranged group. "Cool, it's not hitting us, keep going." Then get another one on their opposite side. "Whew, didn't hit us, keep going." Then get a third one right on top of them, die, and spend the run back whining about how random the fight is.
Maybe if you'd moved a little bit when the first infernal landed near you, you'd never have been in position to get "unlucky."
Eat it You Nasty Pig. on
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
The fact is, though, you could definitely get "unlucky" in the phase where he'd go to town on the tank. He could string crushing blows together in unfortunate sequences.
I distinctly remember healing that fight with tanks in overwhelmingly heroic quality gear.
Now, Shade of Aran. That fight was all about incompetent players. Worst rogues I have ever seen, I swear to god....
I haven't read all of the past 2 pages, but I saw where the Announcement of Dungeon Finder: Call To Arms was made. And I see a lot of people whining about "Tanks and healers getting free loot" and "This will bring a bunch of noobs that don't have the gear queing as a tank." I will be slowly catching up over the course of today, so if things have subsided a little please excuse me. I just wanted to post my thoughts before the servers become too busy and I cannot do so.
I am a Tank. I am fully Raid equipped minus 1 trinket. I have been so for 6 weeks now. I haven't needed an Item out of Heroic Dungeons or Valor Points in almost 10 weeks. I have ran maybe 4 Heroic Dungeons in as many weeks. I had no intention of running ZG/ZA more than a couple times just to see the encounters.
With this Call to Arms, I will be queuing up to tank for people much more often. Instead of spending all of my time farming Herbs for Flasks, or Fishing or doing Archeology I will now run Heroic Dungeons to get Flasks, a little extra cash and a chance at a Mount that I don't care about. They are small rewards, but interesting enough to make me consider queing up, where as right now you would have to pay me 200g to get me to Queue for an instance.
For every terrible Tank you get, you will get someone like me. Someone that knows every fight, and has the gear that will allow him to practicly solo the instance for you. DPS queue times WILL go down. Yes, you will get terrible tanks, but I think you will see more Tanks like myself queueing instead of terrible undergeared Tanks.
I think it is a fine idea. I will go from never wanting to do a heroic ever again to "Sure, I've got a while before my raid lemme queue up" and so will a lot of other Raid Tanks.
The call to arms buff is a good thing if it actually reduces que times.
The underlying problem is apparently most people don't like tanking for some reason (those being responsbility, the class abilities, whatever).
So I think this actually a very reasonable solution to encourage people to tank heroics to help alleviate the 40+ dps que timers. Do you really care if this drops your wait time for a heroic down to like 15 min as dps, but the tank gets an extra 80 gold and the chance at a farmable mount? If so, you are a much more patient man than I am.
However, there will be alot of growing pains from Noob tanks, but barring a few specific fights (Ozurk, 2nd boss in Throne of Tides, etc) most of the mechanics for those fights you learn as a DPS, so even a noob tank should be familiar with the mechanics. Threat is a whole different story.
Yeah, this is my only issue with the whole tank/healer incentive thing. It's like, hmm, rather than try to figure out why nobody wants to play a tank and adjust game design accordingly, let's just pay people to do it. Wonderful.
Surely the reason why nobody wants to play a tank in the dungeon finder is *exactly* that the rewards aren't worth the cost?
Solving that either involves increasing the rewards or reducing the cost. They increased the rewards.
Is there any kind of Mechanic they could add to Tanking that would make you want to try it out?
I came back to WoW from a 3-4 year break a year ago. I started a Priest to heal. Turns out I should have talked to my friends to find out what people were playing, because 2 of my friends were already playing Holy Priests. So I went Shadow. One night we were doing Heroic Halls of Stone, and we got a Warrior Tank in full Tier 10.25 I think. After that run, I decided to make a Warrior to Tank with. And to be honest, it was all because of how this guy played.
He was all over the place, and it looked like so much damn fun. He would Charge one group TC, Intercept another group and Shockwave then Intervene back to one of us, moving 70+ Yards in 3-4 seconds. He would Zoom down hallways by charging/intercepting mobs and critters. I simply said "I want to be able to do that!" so I made my Warrior and never looked back. It is the greatest fun in the game to me.
Then they gave Warriors Heroic Leap. Man, am I fucking awesome. My favorite pull in the game are the 2 pulls right before Cho'gall. We don't CC Anything. My Off Tank is also a Warrior. I love that pull because It feels like we are at 4 places at once. Charging that, Intercepting That, Intervening that healer, Heroic Leaping over to the caster, Charging back to the Twilight guy, Intercepting the dude summoning a portal, Heroic Leaping to the group of 4 minions. I wish I could get a recording of it from one of the DPSes view. Just two warriors flying all over the damn screen. That pull makes up for anything I've ever disliked about the game.
Well I got a low level druid I was going to tank with, but then it didn't go too well when I went full pug. It's not like I use any of those tanking abilities when I'm going around solo, or know how effective things are straight off the bat.
TBH, it's more the player base, and the collective attitude and abuse if you aren't geared enough or going quick enough, or if you cause a wipe. I see plenty of that anyway on my healer so why would I want to double the fun by rolling a tank?
Honestly, it's the effort I have to go to get a grop of idiots through a dungeon that puts me off tanking. If the group is good then it's fine. But after a couple of weeks or so at the level cap doing pugs, I just can't see the point in carrying on so I hop on my dps and sit back and relax.
I've levelled plenty of tanks though, so don't think I don't enjoy it when I get a good group or a nice set of guildies to raid with.
I've considered levelling a tank, but when I think about it I'd only ever want to play it in full guild groups. Pug tanking full randoms seems like the opposite of fun to me. I don't want to be the default leader of a random group of probably terrible people I've never met.
I've considered levelling a tank, but when I think about it I'd only ever want to play it in full guild groups. Pug tanking full randoms seems like the opposite of fun to me. I don't want to be the default leader of a random group of probably terrible people I've never met.
Oh yes, you do. Because the alternative is being not the leader of a random group of probably terrible people you've never met. And that means one of them is. That's even less fun.
Queuing as a healer or DPS is really painful after queuing as a tank mostly because your ability to pull the gibbering retards you may get through the instance no matter how bad they are is severely reduced.
As for tanking I have not really done it since Wrath the same goes for healing since I did do it a lot in the close of wrath on my paladin and seeing a lot of suicidal people in heroics really bothered me
I believe so. My main for this expansion is a Hunter. Last expansion I switched up between a Prot Warrior, Feral Tank / Resto Druid, and finally a rogue.
This expansion I am maining a Hunter and my main alt is a Blood DK. The reason I love tanking Heroics is that fact that I am not an asshat. I know what to do on all the encounters, I execute the proper strategies, and I tell people what to do if they don't know. I don't lose threat, I pop my cooldowns when the need arises, and I can save a bad pull by using the right abilities at the right time.
Compared to my Hunter, heroics are so much harder. I get pissed off because I am doing over 45% of the damage, people break my CC's, people don't listen to my advice, and I have no control over the encounter.
I play a tank because I feel that I am responsible, skilled, and geared enough to carry the burden of a bad group. I improve the playing experience of everyone around me when I am playing a Tank. As a DPS, I can only make the pain end faster.
The reason for the rewards being solo que only are pretty obvious. If someone from my guild is on, I get them to tag along with me. If no one is on, I spam trade chat with messages like "PST me why I should give you an insta que" or "PST with Heroic Dungeon Cheev for a insta que". It's worth the effort to find the diamonds in the rough.
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
edited April 2011
Throw me in with the group that hates DF Call to Arms because it completely excludes me as a pure DPS.
Are they fucking kidding with this new system? Tanks and healers get instant queues and free items, pets and mounts.
Sounds totally fair.
Tanks or healers, since at any given time, only the lowest representation will get the call to arms bonus. Also, are DPS enjoying the 40-minute queues? Would they prefer nothing be done about it?
Also, I'm not really sure how other players getting non-combat pets and on rare occasions, mounts, hurts you.
^^^ I'm with (the conveniently named) Warlock.
I will likely never get a chance at any of this shit because I play a Mage.
Forty: I'd prefer if they fixed the problem rather than just throwing free shit at tanks and healers.
Yeah 40 minute queues suck, but you know what's gonna happen now? Healers and tanks will both refuse to queue because they're waiting for their Call to Arms to pop so they can get free shit.
And don't tell me that won't happen. Tanks had people pay them to get into queues and then dropped, and they'd drop group or ignore the queue if they weren't halfway through the dungeon already. That just SCREAMS "entitled douchebag". Of course they're gonna act like they DESERVE that fucking mount and wait until it gives it to them.
Yeah, this is my only issue with the whole tank/healer incentive thing. It's like, hmm, rather than try to figure out why nobody wants to play a tank and adjust game design accordingly, let's just pay people to do it. Wonderful.
Nobody wants to tank because it does come with more responsibility than other roles. People expect the tanks to lead, and all the crap that comes with it like knowing what to pull, what to CC, how bosses work, etc. The actual act of tanking is probably the dirt ass easiest thing in the game to do. Relatively simple rotations, super easy itemization that is hard to really fuck up, and usually the most complex bullshit that might ever get foisted off onto you is a tank swap or maybe kite something. But nobody wants to do it because knowing all that shit is "hard." I.e. requires more game awareness and sense than most casual players are willing or able to muster.
So they queue as dps and faceroll their keys and do 8k damage as I just sit there, quietly weeping when I am on my tank or healer, or sighing when I am on my dps.
This all comes with it never being your fault and no one ever being allowed to talk back under penalty of hissy fit.
But the worst is doing my job and losing aggro because some asshole isn't watching their fucking threat.
"lol tank better"
No, dick. I'm tanking fine. But I'm level 83 and you're running your friend through at level 85 in gear suited for Heroics. I'm not doing bad. You just aren't taking into account that I'm 2 levels lower and a lot worse geared.
The Muffin Man on
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Warlock82Never pet a burning dogRegistered Userregular
Are they fucking kidding with this new system? Tanks and healers get instant queues and free items, pets and mounts.
Sounds totally fair.
Tanks or healers, since at any given time, only the lowest representation will get the call to arms bonus. Also, are DPS enjoying the 40-minute queues? Would they prefer nothing be done about it?
Also, I'm not really sure how other players getting non-combat pets and on rare occasions, mounts, hurts you.
It's not that others get them. It's that we will never, ever even have the OPTION to get them.
To put it another way - DPS get screwed either way. It's a "pick your poison" type of thing. That's not a good solution.
Are they fucking kidding with this new system? Tanks and healers get instant queues and free items, pets and mounts.
Sounds totally fair.
Tanks or healers, since at any given time, only the lowest representation will get the call to arms bonus. Also, are DPS enjoying the 40-minute queues? Would they prefer nothing be done about it?
Also, I'm not really sure how other players getting non-combat pets and on rare occasions, mounts, hurts you.
This so hard. This is their solution to getting Tanks to que, lowering the DPS times. What's the issue exactly? You get less free stuff, but faster que times. How can you possibly hate that?
I honestly don't know, i just found it funny they went back to the old system...
Considering their overcompensation "solution" in WotLK ruined PvP, I can kind of see why they went back to an older philosophy that doesn't really hurt anything very much.
One way to solve this is put 359 Daggers on the VP vendor? taking out some of the 'randomness' of raids, but would leave them only open to people raiding, and wouldn't really make people stop getting the conquest daggers, so truthfully don't know.
They don't like to give primary weapons away on PvE vendors, though. They pretty much never have. At best you can sometimes get an off hand, but that's about it. I guess they could change their philosophy there, but being on the VP vendor doesn't exactly "leave them only open to people raiding," since everyone doing heroics would hoard up their VPs and always buy a weapon first.
And if you're saying only putting daggers on the VP vendor, that's a huge "fuck you" to everyone who isn't playing a rogue.
Are they fucking kidding with this new system? Tanks and healers get instant queues and free items, pets and mounts.
Sounds totally fair.
Tanks or healers, since at any given time, only the lowest representation will get the call to arms bonus. Also, are DPS enjoying the 40-minute queues? Would they prefer nothing be done about it?
Also, I'm not really sure how other players getting non-combat pets and on rare occasions, mounts, hurts you.
It's not that others get them. It's that we will never, ever even have the OPTION to get them.
To put it another way - DPS get screwed either way. It's a "pick your poison" type of thing. That's not a good solution.
This, too.
It's either "Wait 40 minutes for a dungeon or queue with friends" or "Don't ever get anything extra."
On top of that, the ones who queue with friends? Now our healers and tanks are literally doing a thankless job. Because Blizzard won't even give them loot if they don't go without their friends.
So not only do people get screwed over for rolling Mage, Hunter, Warlock, and Rogue, but they get screwed over for liking their guild enough to run dungeons with them. Fantastic!
If they gave everyone an offhand / relic / wand / shield option the only people being left out would be Hunters. I wouldn't have a problem with that, and they did add in a Ranged epic from points late BC IIRC. Maybe make them ilvl353?
Tanks DO solo que. The issue at hand is that they que less regularly by themselves then other roles. This is why solo DPS ques are so high.
This is supposed to increase the number of tanks that are solo queing by offering them an incentive for doing so.
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I don't do the healing thing because I don't think it's fair to make others suffer like that. I'm not great at it and trying to heal a Cata instance is very challenging to me.
I've gotten more comfortable with tanking but some fights are still a challenge. I'm not always in the mood to tank though.
The dps that queue up as tanks, in their dps spec and gear, DON'T have any business filling that role. Neither do the ones using non-plate and/or caster gear. Gotta have the right tools for the job. It's just not going to work very well otherwise. The ones who didn't come prepared are just wasting other people's time.
New to tanking/healing? I can be patient. Hoping to have your ass carried(or even better...someone quit in frustration so a real tank/healer comes in).....die in a fire.
It's not so much which role is more necessary or has more responsibility as it is people needing to pull their own weight.
In an ideal world, groups would CC stuff, interupt spells, not stand in harmful things. If a group did all those things, then you as a healer, would have a relatively easy time.
However, due to an attitude of faster is better, CC is pointless if you have the gear and paying attention to mechanics in boss fights just makes the fight last longer (I assume people are trying to find a cure for cancer), then you, as a healer, are in for a rough time in the pug system, especially if you're gearing up. There is also so very little tolerance if a wipe occurs.
I've healed heroics where the tank had 200k health, and I had to spam heal the guy to keep him up, because he couldn't be bothered to wait for CC. I've been on runs where I've asked "can't we use CC?" and just gotten replies "we don't need it" (alright, the group is alive at the end of the pull, but why they don't mark up some CC's while they wait for me to drink, as opposed to just standing there, I don't know).
It's very easy for the group to blame the healer for a wipe; after all, if you're dead, you obviously didn't get healed.
Once this change comes in 4.1, the mount won't feel the same to me. Not because other people have it, good luck to them. But because whenever I see it I won't think "hey, that guy did the grind, same as me". What I'll think is "hey, there's that mount lots of people have who just ran a random heroic and got it in a bag". GG immersiveness. It sucks some of the soul out of collecting - I like collecting
Firelands better be Karazhan/Ulduar level fucking amazing.
Yeah, this is my only issue with the whole tank/healer incentive thing. It's like, hmm, rather than try to figure out why nobody wants to play a tank and adjust game design accordingly, let's just pay people to do it. Wonderful.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Atmosphere goes a LONG way, especially when going back for that full clear for the tenth time or learning heroic boss X
Horribly designed place. Worst raid in BC, hands freaking down.
Currently playing: GW2 and TSW
The worst examples include
The Ushers ice-blocking tanks, and being Taunt immune
The trash from the Curator, to the Shade. There was so much of it, even if you skipped a fair chunk of it, it still took a while; what made it even worse, that trash was tied to the Shade, who was tightly tuned when the raid initially came out. You'd have 4-5 goes trying to learn the guy, and then you were faced with another 30 mins of clearing trash to have another go.
Then some fights completely borked certain specs (eg a paladin tank on the Maiden).
The general range bias that was present in all heroics in TBC as well (I was initially a rogue in TBC, and heroics and Kara was an exercise in pain). Raids were nearly always better having range.
When the place came out originally, the loot was rubbish. Then they buffed it, but it was still all over the place.
It's mentioned that hate might stem from having to run it so often, but considering alot of upgrades were only in the latter half, and you had to wade you way through the first half all the time, I'll blame Kara for the fact I dragged dozens of tanks through the place gearing them up, and then seeing them quit for whatever reason, and having to drag another tank through the place again.
Then the Prince! Yeah, you could negate some of the bad luck (or use the exploit) of whether your tank and melee could end up boxed by infernals, or just bust out all the cooldowns in attempt to get p2 over so quickly that you didn't see your tank in 10 man gear get obliterated by an unfortunate windfury hit, but the fight still sucked.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
I take it all back then; Kara was not horrible.
Nobody wants to tank because it does come with more responsibility than other roles. People expect the tanks to lead, and all the crap that comes with it like knowing what to pull, what to CC, how bosses work, etc. The actual act of tanking is probably the dirt ass easiest thing in the game to do. Relatively simple rotations, super easy itemization that is hard to really fuck up, and usually the most complex bullshit that might ever get foisted off onto you is a tank swap or maybe kite something. But nobody wants to do it because knowing all that shit is "hard." I.e. requires more game awareness and sense than most casual players are willing or able to muster.
So they queue as dps and faceroll their keys and do 8k damage as I just sit there, quietly weeping when I am on my tank or healer, or sighing when I am on my dps.
LoL: failboattootoot
Tanking as a warrior has like 50 billion abilities and pulling is a chore because of the rage mechanic. Way too much effort for a bunch of people I don't know and probably don't like. If I have to pug, I'd rather sit in queue for 20 minutes while playing windowed games or reading than expend that much effort.
I'm sorry but this was a pet peeve of mine in the day. I would help out so many raids who'd tank him in a spot, then get an infernal to one side of the tank or the ranged group. "Cool, it's not hitting us, keep going." Then get another one on their opposite side. "Whew, didn't hit us, keep going." Then get a third one right on top of them, die, and spend the run back whining about how random the fight is.
Maybe if you'd moved a little bit when the first infernal landed near you, you'd never have been in position to get "unlucky."
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
I distinctly remember healing that fight with tanks in overwhelmingly heroic quality gear.
Now, Shade of Aran. That fight was all about incompetent players. Worst rogues I have ever seen, I swear to god....
I am a Tank. I am fully Raid equipped minus 1 trinket. I have been so for 6 weeks now. I haven't needed an Item out of Heroic Dungeons or Valor Points in almost 10 weeks. I have ran maybe 4 Heroic Dungeons in as many weeks. I had no intention of running ZG/ZA more than a couple times just to see the encounters.
With this Call to Arms, I will be queuing up to tank for people much more often. Instead of spending all of my time farming Herbs for Flasks, or Fishing or doing Archeology I will now run Heroic Dungeons to get Flasks, a little extra cash and a chance at a Mount that I don't care about. They are small rewards, but interesting enough to make me consider queing up, where as right now you would have to pay me 200g to get me to Queue for an instance.
For every terrible Tank you get, you will get someone like me. Someone that knows every fight, and has the gear that will allow him to practicly solo the instance for you. DPS queue times WILL go down. Yes, you will get terrible tanks, but I think you will see more Tanks like myself queueing instead of terrible undergeared Tanks.
I think it is a fine idea. I will go from never wanting to do a heroic ever again to "Sure, I've got a while before my raid lemme queue up" and so will a lot of other Raid Tanks.
The underlying problem is apparently most people don't like tanking for some reason (those being responsbility, the class abilities, whatever).
So I think this actually a very reasonable solution to encourage people to tank heroics to help alleviate the 40+ dps que timers. Do you really care if this drops your wait time for a heroic down to like 15 min as dps, but the tank gets an extra 80 gold and the chance at a farmable mount? If so, you are a much more patient man than I am.
However, there will be alot of growing pains from Noob tanks, but barring a few specific fights (Ozurk, 2nd boss in Throne of Tides, etc) most of the mechanics for those fights you learn as a DPS, so even a noob tank should be familiar with the mechanics. Threat is a whole different story.
Surely the reason why nobody wants to play a tank in the dungeon finder is *exactly* that the rewards aren't worth the cost?
Solving that either involves increasing the rewards or reducing the cost. They increased the rewards.
Either that or use quicker queue times to gear up my mage.
The only thing I dont like is
The queueing solo thing is a bit silly.
I suspect that's to ensure that the people on the recieving end are guaranteed to be able to kick the tanks they get if it's necessary.
Is there any kind of Mechanic they could add to Tanking that would make you want to try it out?
I came back to WoW from a 3-4 year break a year ago. I started a Priest to heal. Turns out I should have talked to my friends to find out what people were playing, because 2 of my friends were already playing Holy Priests. So I went Shadow. One night we were doing Heroic Halls of Stone, and we got a Warrior Tank in full Tier 10.25 I think. After that run, I decided to make a Warrior to Tank with. And to be honest, it was all because of how this guy played.
He was all over the place, and it looked like so much damn fun. He would Charge one group TC, Intercept another group and Shockwave then Intervene back to one of us, moving 70+ Yards in 3-4 seconds. He would Zoom down hallways by charging/intercepting mobs and critters. I simply said "I want to be able to do that!" so I made my Warrior and never looked back. It is the greatest fun in the game to me.
Then they gave Warriors Heroic Leap. Man, am I fucking awesome. My favorite pull in the game are the 2 pulls right before Cho'gall. We don't CC Anything. My Off Tank is also a Warrior. I love that pull because It feels like we are at 4 places at once. Charging that, Intercepting That, Intervening that healer, Heroic Leaping over to the caster, Charging back to the Twilight guy, Intercepting the dude summoning a portal, Heroic Leaping to the group of 4 minions. I wish I could get a recording of it from one of the DPSes view. Just two warriors flying all over the damn screen. That pull makes up for anything I've ever disliked about the game.
What makes the class you play fun to you?
TBH, it's more the player base, and the collective attitude and abuse if you aren't geared enough or going quick enough, or if you cause a wipe. I see plenty of that anyway on my healer so why would I want to double the fun by rolling a tank?
I've levelled plenty of tanks though, so don't think I don't enjoy it when I get a good group or a nice set of guildies to raid with.
Oh yes, you do. Because the alternative is being not the leader of a random group of probably terrible people you've never met. And that means one of them is. That's even less fun.
Queuing as a healer or DPS is really painful after queuing as a tank mostly because your ability to pull the gibbering retards you may get through the instance no matter how bad they are is severely reduced.
As for tanking I have not really done it since Wrath the same goes for healing since I did do it a lot in the close of wrath on my paladin and seeing a lot of suicidal people in heroics really bothered me
This expansion I am maining a Hunter and my main alt is a Blood DK. The reason I love tanking Heroics is that fact that I am not an asshat. I know what to do on all the encounters, I execute the proper strategies, and I tell people what to do if they don't know. I don't lose threat, I pop my cooldowns when the need arises, and I can save a bad pull by using the right abilities at the right time.
Compared to my Hunter, heroics are so much harder. I get pissed off because I am doing over 45% of the damage, people break my CC's, people don't listen to my advice, and I have no control over the encounter.
I play a tank because I feel that I am responsible, skilled, and geared enough to carry the burden of a bad group. I improve the playing experience of everyone around me when I am playing a Tank. As a DPS, I can only make the pain end faster.
The reason for the rewards being solo que only are pretty obvious. If someone from my guild is on, I get them to tag along with me. If no one is on, I spam trade chat with messages like "PST me why I should give you an insta que" or "PST with Heroic Dungeon Cheev for a insta que". It's worth the effort to find the diamonds in the rough.
Also, I'm not really sure how other players getting non-combat pets and on rare occasions, mounts, hurts you.
I will likely never get a chance at any of this shit because I play a Mage.
Forty: I'd prefer if they fixed the problem rather than just throwing free shit at tanks and healers.
Yeah 40 minute queues suck, but you know what's gonna happen now? Healers and tanks will both refuse to queue because they're waiting for their Call to Arms to pop so they can get free shit.
And don't tell me that won't happen. Tanks had people pay them to get into queues and then dropped, and they'd drop group or ignore the queue if they weren't halfway through the dungeon already. That just SCREAMS "entitled douchebag". Of course they're gonna act like they DESERVE that fucking mount and wait until it gives it to them.
This all comes with it never being your fault and no one ever being allowed to talk back under penalty of hissy fit.
But the worst is doing my job and losing aggro because some asshole isn't watching their fucking threat.
"lol tank better"
No, dick. I'm tanking fine. But I'm level 83 and you're running your friend through at level 85 in gear suited for Heroics. I'm not doing bad. You just aren't taking into account that I'm 2 levels lower and a lot worse geared.
It's not that others get them. It's that we will never, ever even have the OPTION to get them.
To put it another way - DPS get screwed either way. It's a "pick your poison" type of thing. That's not a good solution.
This so hard. This is their solution to getting Tanks to que, lowering the DPS times. What's the issue exactly? You get less free stuff, but faster que times. How can you possibly hate that?
What is your solution to this ongoing problem?
They don't like to give primary weapons away on PvE vendors, though. They pretty much never have. At best you can sometimes get an off hand, but that's about it. I guess they could change their philosophy there, but being on the VP vendor doesn't exactly "leave them only open to people raiding," since everyone doing heroics would hoard up their VPs and always buy a weapon first.
And if you're saying only putting daggers on the VP vendor, that's a huge "fuck you" to everyone who isn't playing a rogue.
This, too.
It's either "Wait 40 minutes for a dungeon or queue with friends" or "Don't ever get anything extra."
On top of that, the ones who queue with friends? Now our healers and tanks are literally doing a thankless job. Because Blizzard won't even give them loot if they don't go without their friends.
So not only do people get screwed over for rolling Mage, Hunter, Warlock, and Rogue, but they get screwed over for liking their guild enough to run dungeons with them.
Fantastic!
Tanks DO solo que. The issue at hand is that they que less regularly by themselves then other roles. This is why solo DPS ques are so high.
This is supposed to increase the number of tanks that are solo queing by offering them an incentive for doing so.
My Wand is basically another stat stick. A Hunters bow or gun is literally their primary weapon. It's not really a fair comparison.
Edit; I meant ilvl 353 relics / offhands / shields.
Everything on offer is available from another source, is it not? I'd agree completely with you if the bonus was something exclusive.