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[CAD] racist joke?

Victory63Victory63 Registered User regular
edited March 2014 in Debate and/or Discourse
Not sure if safe to talk about other webcomics on here but here I go.

Just recently, the infamous gaming related webcomic Ctrl+Alt+Del released a rather controversial comic. Although just taken down, it still can be viewed here:
http://v.cdn.cad-comic.com/comics/cad-20110415-9b32c.png
Notice the punchline has caused a bit of a stir and is considered racist. However due to complaints the author, Tim Buckley, rereleased it with few changes which can be found here:
http://v.cdn.cad-comic.com/comics/cad-20110415-c721d.png
He rereleased it AGAIN with one word changed but didn't really make a difference:
http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20110415

The comic has started a debate whether this is racist or just a harmless joke, mainly on gaming related discussion board /v/ on the infamous discussion site 4chan. In wake of the storm, forum registration has been disabled on the official forums.

The comic since its start has been about gaming however in recent years has started to include non-gaming related topics as well has started the infamous 'miscarriage' and 'B^U' jokes. This has caught the attention of other popular gaming webcomics such as Penny Arcade and VG Cats to comment and parody on the themes.

Victory63 on
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Posts

  • Silas BrownSilas Brown Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    All I know is it was tasteless and unfunny.

    CmgpQ.jpg
  • PonyPony Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I think it was less racist and more Tim Buckley is a talentless dipshit hack who can't fucking tell a funny joke to save his life and even his attempts to be edgy are terrible.

  • PataPata Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Hanlon's razor, as always, applies.

    SRWWSig.pngEpisode 5: Mecha-World, Mecha-nisim, Mecha-beasts
  • HonkHonk Honk is this poster. Registered User, __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2011
    I'd say it's as much racist as the latest episode of Family Guy.

    But less funny.

  • Victory63Victory63 Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Honk wrote: »
    I'd say it's as much racist as the latest episode of Family Guy.

    But less funny.

    I guess if Family Guy can get away with that sort of thing, Tim shouldn't having anything to worry about ...... apart from /v/ raiding his forums and posting about the various jokes and memes about him.

  • stevemarks44stevemarks44 Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I don't really think it's so offensively racist that it needs to be taken down as much as it is a glaringly racist joke because it is so stilted, inserted and unfunny that you have to stare at the racist sentiment to even begin to care about it.

    If the rest of the punchline, let alone the rest of the comic, was witty or showed some sign of logical characterization, it would have been a forgettably dated stereotypical joke. As Honk said, Family Guy throws these out week after week.

    And this isn't coming from a CAD hater, I've never really read it.

    I guess what I'm saying is that if I'd expect an apology for anything, it's putting zero effort into a strip and reaching into a grab-bag of stereotypical jokes and plugging it in. That, to me, is more offensive.

    1568lg9.jpg
    steam ID: stevemarks44
  • -SPI--SPI- Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Racist? Yes.

    Joke? Not so sure about that part. It's just plainly stating a stereotype, there's no punchline or humour.

    8t2qhu8l050f.jpg
  • Donkey KongDonkey Kong Once more into the breach Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Hahaha, the second change is funnier.

    He realized that mentioning race at all was unnecessary for the new punchline. Imagining that thought process is pretty great.

    Thousands of hot, local singles are waiting to play at bubbulon.com.
  • PwnanObrienPwnanObrien Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    The concept of robots in blackface seems like it would be an old shame of the steampunk era.

    WrIiiPW.png
  • Witch_Hunter_84Witch_Hunter_84 Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Jokes about the stereotype of blacks being noisy in movie theaters are a dime-a-dozen, so I don't think it's too racist. The fact that the strip is unfunny is just classic Ctrl+Alt+Del.

    If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten in your presence.
  • RikushixRikushix Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I don't want to say that the moral offensiveness of a joke depends on if its funny or not but it really doesn't even count as "stereotype humor". There's no true punchline - they recognized that a black character (kind of...) is behaving in a way that is atypically black.

    That being said, that's comedy and you gotta find the line. You can at least give credit to Buckley for quickly pulling it and saying "I thought about this one in advance, gave it a shot and as it turned out, it didn't work at all. Really sorry, here's an alternate."

    Not a huge deal in the grand scheme of things.

    StKbT.jpg
  • KageraKagera Imitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    All I know is it was tasteless and unfunny.

    So just like every other CAD strip ever?

    ZING!

    My neck, my back, my FUPA and my crack.
  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    As soon as you see in the second panel that the robot or whatever is disguised as a black guy, you know what's coming.

    Of course the joke is racist. "White people go to movies like this, black guys go to movies like this" and apparently it's funny because obviously it's the dudes' blackness that causes them to be loud in movies.

    Sometimes it's okay to tell a racist joke, but when shows like Family Guy "get away" with it, they get away with it because they just allude to the actual racism and let the audience make the jump themselves, rather than just baldly write it into the dialogue. Says more about buckley being a hack than anything else.

    (And because they have Cleveland, who's funny primarily because he spends all his time contradicting popular black stereotypes.)

    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    the youngsters who were programmed to continue fucking up woke up one night
    digging Paul Revere and Nat Turner as the good guys
  • CaptainNemoCaptainNemo Ascension. Ascension. Hallelujah. Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Misogynist, ephebophile, art thief, and now racist. Tim Buckley is truly a Renaissance Man of horribleness.

    PSN:CaptainNemo1138
  • Skoal CatSkoal Cat Registered User
    edited April 2011
    Rikushix wrote: »
    That being said, that's comedy and you gotta find the line. You can at least give credit to Buckley for quickly pulling it and saying "I thought about this one in advance, gave it a shot and as it turned out, it didn't work at all. Really sorry, here's an alternate."

    I'm not going to give credit to someone for pulling something that really offended people. That's insane. It's a normal, human response to backtrack. Now on the other hand, if Buckley were a Dickwolf things would be different.

    ceres wrote: »
    Skoal Cat is correct.
  • MimMim Status: Why You Always Lyin'? Stop fuckin' lyin'. Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    This joke is pretty old and has been told by numerous people of varying races.

    Yeah, the joke as racial tones to it, but I think for me (and this kind of is getting into OptimusZed's thread a bit back about entertainment), it doesn't hit racist, just unfunny. He could've told it in so many different ways and it would've come off funnier and people wouldn't be hinging on this one speech bubble. Unfortunately he failed at that attempt, and is now back tracking.

    I think if he was deliberately trying to be hurtful, this would obviously be a different story. It just seems like he was trying to do the same joke but with this new element to it of a robot, and failed. The only thing I can really say about his backtracking was that at least he pulled it down and replaced it with numerous comics because he wasn't quite sure and he listened to his audience. He could've instead become deliberately obtuse and stuck to his original comic no matter how many people it offended.

  • Eat it You Nasty Pig.Eat it You Nasty Pig. tell homeland security 'we are the bomb'Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    The damning part of the apology and followup comics is that he apparently doesn't understand or can't figure out why people would be offended by it. The followup panels are barely even jokes, anyway.

    gkcmatch_zps97480250.jpg
    the youngsters who were programmed to continue fucking up woke up one night
    digging Paul Revere and Nat Turner as the good guys
  • JustinSane07JustinSane07 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2011
    Mim posted everything I was going to. I hate Buckley for numerous reasons but this joke is tame as fuck. Many comedians (Chris Rock has a bit about this) and movies (Scary Movie has entire scene dedicated to this) have mentioned and made this joke before. It's nothing new.

    If anything, it just adds to Buckley's uncreativeness.

  • MimMim Status: Why You Always Lyin'? Stop fuckin' lyin'. Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    The damning part of the apology and followup comics is that he apparently doesn't understand or can't figure out why people would be offended by it. The followup panels are barely even jokes, anyway.

    I didn't get that from his explanation. He knew why people would be offended and said about as much in this:
    So some of you will have seen the original script for today's comic, and notice that it has now been changed.

    I agonized the entire day about what to do with the script for today's comic. On the one hand, I felt the joke was funny, and ultimately harmless. But on the other hand, clearly any jab at a racial stereotype, no matter how playfully intended, is going to be a touchy topic for many people.

    Allow me to first state that there was absolutely zero intention to offend anyone with today's comic. There was no ill-will, malicious agenda, or racism involved with arriving at the script for the comic. I am about as far from racist as a person can be.

    On the other hand, I will admit that I often laugh at jokes about racial stereotypes when they're told for comedic, light-hearted purpose (as opposed to coming from a place of anger or ignorance). A lot of standup comedians make jokes about stereotype humor. I think that racism is a serious matter, but I also think that stereotype humor can be funny, in the same way I think that real world violence is a terrible thing, but I find humor in cartoon/comic violence.

    I talked to a good number of people this afternoon while I was working on the comic, to get outside opinions and advice about whether or not I should proceed with the original script. I knew it was a big risk, to trust that it would be apparent that it was coming from a place of good-natured ribbing on a well-known stereotype, and not any place sinister.

    In the end I wrote three different versions of the comic and prepared them. I decided to launch with the original script, stay up late and monitor how it was received, and have the backup on hand in case it didn't go over well.

    I'm not out to offend anyone. My goal is to make people laugh. Not everyone has the same sense of humor. Some people are offended more easily than others. In hindsight, it may have been irresponsible of me to try and walk the admittedly very fine line that is racial stereotype humor in a medium where I have such a broad and varied audience that I cannot immediately see/guage.

    I tried something different, and I'll be the first to admit that it didn't work for me. Rather than keep the comic up and offend people, I decided to swap it out for one of the alternate scripts. Again, if you were offended by the original script, please accept my sincerest apologies. I certainly meant to no harm by it. Ideally we'd live in a world where we could all laugh together and tease and poke fun and nobody's feelings would get hurt. But until that day, I promise that if I'm on the fence about a potentially abrasive joke, I'll err on the side of caution.

    This doesn't say to me "Gosh, why are you so offended. Okay, shut up, I took it down." He seemed pretty aware that this could go badly and stayed up the night he put it up to watch how it was perceived in case the little voice in the back of his head was true. Maybe I'm reading too much sincerity into this, but to me it doesn't seem like he doesn't know why it would make people mad.

  • 815165815165 Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Meh, it's a stupid stereotype but it's no worse than some of the jokes on something like Scrubs.

    The original isn't funny at all, the second joke (told either way) is less not-funny.

  • urahonkyurahonky Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Kagera wrote: »
    All I know is it was tasteless and unfunny.

    So just like every other CAD strip ever?

    ZING!

    The ZING is made funnier by your avatar.

    But yeah this wasn't that racist, or funny. The new comic is even less funny, if that's possible.

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  • SageinaRageSageinaRage Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Mim wrote: »
    This joke is pretty old and has been told by numerous people of varying races.

    Though it's been said many times and many wayyyysss....:whistle:



    The thing that gets me is how much worse the new punchline is. The first one, despite the light racism, actually has the underpinings of a joke. The new one doesn't really.

  • ArchArch doctor of beetle bugs Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Hahaha, the second change is funnier.

    He realized that mentioning race at all was unnecessary for the new punchline. Imagining that thought process is pretty great.

    This is, to me, the best part as well.

  • DisrupterDisrupter Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    He should have kept the second change and had the other character raise an eyebrow and be all, "But white guys do?"

    Point out how it was silly to bring race into the second joke, for the joke...because otherwise there really isnt a joke there.

    I also love how with the change the entire premise of the whole too many mouth muscles gets made pointless because the LOL BLACK MAN NO TALK AT MOVIES ISNT REALISTIC! joke is gone...

    616610-1.png
  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic I've Done Worse Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    This is Buckley, he wouldn't go so far as to redraw something.

    Kinda racist in the ignorance way rather than the hateful way and anything close to humor is buried under a pile of words that don't need to be there.

    So....typical CAD.

    Nod. Get treat.

    PSN: QuipFilter
  • LadyMLadyM Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Wow. I don't know what I was expecting when I clicked, but it wasn't anything as blatantly racist as that. He might as well follow up with a comic about how Asian people can't drive straight because of their slanty eyes. HILARIOUS COMEDY.

  • DeebaserDeebaser on my way to work in a suit and a tie Ahhhh...come on fucking guyRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Is the joke that the dude in the middle has two streams of soft-serve shit on his head instead of hair?

    YOLO. Swag. Whatever. Fuck it. Lets do this.
  • MeeqeMeeqe Lord of the pants most fancy Someplace amazingRegistered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Obligatory "Tim Buckley is shit etc. etc." post.

    Used to be a longtime CAD reader, until I realized I was giving ad money to a complete waste of space. His treatment of his (full of fans) guild in WoW was enough to turn me off the guy.

    I like children. Provided they go home with their parents at the end of the day.
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Yeah... I think the problem is less the fact that it's racist (it is) and more the fact that it is unironically racist and not even slightly funny. I mean, it's just a tired stereotype which I know hacks need to rely on when creating this shit, but even for a stereotype this was lazy.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • JustinSane07JustinSane07 __BANNED USERS regular
    edited April 2011
    Sentry wrote: »
    Yeah... I think the problem is less the fact that it's racist (it is) and more the fact that it is unironically racist and not even slightly funny. I mean, it's just a tired stereotype which I know hacks need to rely on when creating this shit, but even for a stereotype this was lazy.

    chris_rock.jpg
    I really hate to bringing him up a second time but a hack he is not.

  • DevoutlyApatheticDevoutlyApathetic I've Done Worse Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Uh, 20 years is plenty of time for a topic to be considered hackneyed.

    Nevermind that his shtick was actually, ya know, funny.

    Nod. Get treat.

    PSN: QuipFilter
  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Wait... did I say Chris Rock was a hack? There's a difference between making a joke about stereotypes and having the stereotype be the joke.

    Did I really need to explain that?

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • ZomroZomro Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Is the strip in question not funny? In my opinion, yes. I'm not really bothered by it, though, it's a silly stereotype joke, and I've honestly never seen anyone be offended by that particular joke (especially when there's a lot of other hurtful stereotypes out there). But, what's bothering me is the amount of people who feel the need to label someone as a racist because of one stereotype joke. Is that what we're doing now? I hope some of you have never, ever made a racial / stereotype joke before because you'd be a hypocrite and a racist (apparantly). And since someone brought up Chris Rock already, why is he not considered a racist? How about Dave Chapelle? His show made racial jokes about whites, blacks, asians and hispanics. The comic strip in question is extremely tame in comparison to the Chapelle Show, and I love the Chapelle Show.

  • SyrdonSyrdon Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Yeah, the difference between being a hack and not is not what jokes you use, its your delivery. If you're (really) good, you should be able to deliver anything and have it be funny (ex: the aristocrats); if you're not funny it won't matter what your punchline is, you're going to kill it.

    On a side note, I think if you really want to preserve the blackface joke you can probably have Ethan introduce the robot in blackface, have him point out the problem, switch to whiteface with some variation on ethan claiming the problem is solved and just have lucas facepalm and keep the joke, the same quantity of humor and cut your word count and (I think) the level of offense that you give. I'm still not sure its funny enough to be worth the effort of inking though.

    edit: As far as the question of the joke crossing some sort of line, I'm going to steal a measuring stick from Carlos Mencia (who may have stolen it form someone else): If I can't tell that joke to someone of $offendedClass then I should not tell it to anyone. That joke doesn't come close to crossing that line. As far as the joke being racist? Yes, the joke does discriminate on the basis of race. Does that make Tim Buckley racist? I have no idea if he discriminates based on race or not and that joke doesn't give me any information for that.

  • MalyonsusMalyonsus Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Zomro wrote: »
    Is the strip in question not funny? In my opinion, yes. I'm not really bothered by it, though, it's a silly stereotype joke, and I've honestly never seen anyone be offended by that particular joke (especially when there's a lot of other hurtful stereotypes out there). But, what's bothering me is the amount of people who feel the need to label someone as a racist because of one stereotype joke. Is that what we're doing now? I hope some of you have never, ever made a racial / stereotype joke before because you'd be a hypocrite and a racist (apparantly). And since someone brought up Chris Rock already, why is he not considered a racist? How about Dave Chapelle? His show made racial jokes about whites, blacks, asians and hispanics. The comic strip in question is extremely tame in comparison to the Chapelle Show, and I love the Chapelle Show.

    What most people seem to be saying (or those who think the joke is at least a little racist, anyway) is that it is the joke that is racist, not necessarily Buckley himself. Which seems like a relevant distinction.

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  • ZomroZomro Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Malyonsus wrote: »
    Zomro wrote: »
    Is the strip in question not funny? In my opinion, yes. I'm not really bothered by it, though, it's a silly stereotype joke, and I've honestly never seen anyone be offended by that particular joke (especially when there's a lot of other hurtful stereotypes out there). But, what's bothering me is the amount of people who feel the need to label someone as a racist because of one stereotype joke. Is that what we're doing now? I hope some of you have never, ever made a racial / stereotype joke before because you'd be a hypocrite and a racist (apparantly). And since someone brought up Chris Rock already, why is he not considered a racist? How about Dave Chapelle? His show made racial jokes about whites, blacks, asians and hispanics. The comic strip in question is extremely tame in comparison to the Chapelle Show, and I love the Chapelle Show.

    What most people seem to be saying (or those who think the joke is at least a little racist, anyway) is that it is the joke that is racist, not necessarily Buckley himself. Which seems like a relevant distinction.

    I was more or less referring to this:
    Misogynist, ephebophile, art thief, and now racist. Tim Buckley is truly a Renaissance Man of horribleness.

    I probably should've quoted this from the get go.

  • SentrySentry Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I think people are less likely to be offended by racism if the joke is even slightly funny.

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    wrote:
    When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
    'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
  • ZomroZomro Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Sentry wrote: »
    I think people are less likely to be offended by racism if the joke is even slightly funny.

    That I agree with, I've always loved racial humor because it points out the absurdity of stereotypes, which I believe allows people to move past it. It might be because growing up and being of mixed race (white and hispanic), I've had to deal with some stupid shit from ignorant people.

    However, that wasn't what was bothering me, but I already went over that.

  • SammyFSammyF Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    I've seen iterations of jokes about the same stereotype a lot of places. When you've seen it on programs as benign as Scrubs, it stops raising your eyebrow as high as it might otherwise.

    The execution's just so lousy, though; the entire premise behind the punchline is that quiet black people inevitably draw a lot of attention, presumably more than loud black people draw. Alright, so, let's say you just can't help yourself and want, nay, need to make a joke about a racially-based stereotype. This is not how that particular stereotype works.

  • ExrielExriel Registered User regular
    edited April 2011
    Zomro wrote: »
    How about Dave Chapelle? His show made racial jokes about whites, blacks, asians and hispanics. The comic strip in question is extremely tame in comparison to the Chapelle Show, and I love the Chapelle Show.

    I think it's probably worth it to point out that among the many reasons Chapelle had for leaving his show, longs hours away from family, massive pressure/stress, little to no privacy, etc., one of them was that he feared that many of his jokes were simply re-enforcing harmful stereotypes, instead of destroying them, funny or not.

    That said, without the explanatory post, I don't think I would have even noticed the racial tones. I simply would have read, not laughed and moved on.

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