As was foretold, we've added advertisements to the forums! If you have questions, or if you encounter any bugs, please visit this thread: https://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/240191/forum-advertisement-faq-and-reports-thread/
Options

The second PSN down thread... yes, there's a new one. Go post there.

1356762

Posts

  • Options
    JAEFJAEF Unstoppably Bald Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I put 3D Dot Game Heroes in, and there was an update for it. I downloaded it, and now I can play as Sackboy! Neato! I didn't realize I could download an update without psn.
    PSN isn't down because of server failures. The ability to access it is just shut off. Update servers are all still running and delivering content.

    JAEF on
  • Options
    SmokeStacksSmokeStacks Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I put 3D Dot Game Heroes in, and there was an update for it. I downloaded it, and now I can play as Sackboy! Neato! I didn't realize I could download an update without psn.

    The update servers are unrelated to the PSN.

    SmokeStacks on
  • Options
    TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Turkey wrote: »
    So the thread is back in paranoia mode?

    I'm not trying to spread paranoia. I'm just trying to share best practices, from my perspective.

    I guess it's just in my nature to sound paranoid, though. I believe it was Synthesis who once compared me to Dustin Hoffman in Outbreak, but with computers instead of monkeys. I cannot find fault in that comparison.

    TetraNitroCubane on
  • Options
    JAEFJAEF Unstoppably Bald Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    JAEF on
  • Options
    SpaceKoburaSpaceKobura Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Here is an article written back in January explaining how PS3's security was in tatters.

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-security-in-tatters

    Sony should have acted. It was only a matter of time until there would be a big data breach.

    It kind of makes you wonder who the heck anyone was being paid for such a shoddy job. Microsoft, Google, Apple, Amazon etc haven't be victims of data breaches at this scale.

    SpaceKobura on
    Stuck on a videogame or looking for cheat codes and tips? TipNinjas is a gaming question and answer site run by gamers.

    http://www.tipninjas.com
  • Options
    RainbowDespairRainbowDespair Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Last time I checked, you could only get a PSN+ membership if you had a PS3. Has anything changed or are PSP owners being ignored as usual?

    RainbowDespair on
  • Options
    plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I'd guess nothing has changed.

    There is going to also be some sort of software gift though, right? PSP owners will probably get that, right?

    plufim on
    3DS 0302-0029-3193 NNID plufim steam plufim PSN plufim
    steam_sig.png
  • Options
    JAEFJAEF Unstoppably Bald Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    It's in the OP. The month of PSN+ is supplemental, there will be other compensation, the specifics of it are not yet announced.

    JAEF on
  • Options
    chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Why do I trust Amazon over Sony? Because Amazon secures my password in SHA-2 salted hashes. Not in cleartext files. I assume they use similar or higher encryption for the more sensitive of my data.

    Sony admits the server vulnerability was a known exploit. Again, they were incompetent in keeping their server software and security up to date.

    While you can get your info stolen anywhere, its a more sound decision to trust the companies which have shown an ability to perform simple security measures vs a company that thinks its okay to leave my login password unhashed. Or to store my CC# in probably unsalted hash. Hell, I expect to hear they use md5. Just to add insult to injury.

    chocobolicious on
    steam_sig.png
  • Options
    EggPuppetEggPuppet Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Here is an article written back in January explaining how PS3's security was in tatters.

    http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-ps3-security-in-tatters

    Sony should have acted. It was only a matter of time until there would be a big data breach.

    That explains why the console was open to running pirated games, but it doesn't say anything about Sony having insecure servers.

    EggPuppet on
  • Options
    exisexis Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Why do I trust Amazon over Sony? Because Amazon secures my password in SHA-2 salted hashes. Not in cleartext files. I assume they use similar or higher encryption for the more sensitive of my data.

    Sony admits the server vulnerability was a known exploit. Again, they were incompetent in keeping their server software and security up to date.

    While you can get your info stolen anywhere, its a more sound decision to trust the companies which have shown an ability to perform simple security measures vs a company that thinks its okay to leave my login password unhashed. Or to store my CC# in probably unsalted hash. Hell, I expect to hear they use md5. Just to add insult to injury.

    Wait, what? Did Sony actually announce that they haven't been hashing at all? In the last thread this was all lols, but you seem a lot more certain all of a sudden.

    exis on
  • Options
    MovitzMovitz Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I've missed out on the last few days of this thread. Are there any confirmed cases of hijacked cards yet?

    Movitz on
  • Options
    The AnonymousThe Anonymous Uh, uh, uhhhhhh... Uh, uh.Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    There have been a few reports on this very forum about credit card hijinks (all PSN users to boot), but none of us know for certain because of how vague Sony is being.

    The Anonymous on
  • Options
    chocoboliciouschocobolicious Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    exis wrote: »
    Why do I trust Amazon over Sony? Because Amazon secures my password in SHA-2 salted hashes. Not in cleartext files. I assume they use similar or higher encryption for the more sensitive of my data.

    Sony admits the server vulnerability was a known exploit. Again, they were incompetent in keeping their server software and security up to date.

    While you can get your info stolen anywhere, its a more sound decision to trust the companies which have shown an ability to perform simple security measures vs a company that thinks its okay to leave my login password unhashed. Or to store my CC# in probably unsalted hash. Hell, I expect to hear they use md5. Just to add insult to injury.

    Wait, what? Did Sony actually announce that they haven't been hashing at all? In the last thread this was all lols, but you seem a lot more certain all of a sudden.

    In regards to PSN passwords, and all your user info, Sony has said that none of it was encrypted. The only thing they said was encrypted was the CC info, which was on a different part of the server.

    chocobolicious on
    steam_sig.png
  • Options
    SeolSeol Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    We're not going to get confirmed cases of cards being hijacked from PSN: in any individual case, the breach could potentially have happened anywhere, and we're only going to get anecdotal evidence here. Lack of confirmed cases means nothing: whether it's happening or not, anecdotal is all we'll get, so it would be imprudent to act only on confirmed reports.

    Seol on
  • Options
    MichaelLCMichaelLC In what furnace was thy brain? ChicagoRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Yeah, it's very likely PSN related, but until someone says they had a PSN-only card that they used for nothing else and keep in a block of ice in their freezer, it's just assumptions.

    Since I personally was dumb and used my debit, I decided the risk was too high. Had it been a regular CC, it may have been different.

    MichaelLC on
  • Options
    JAEFJAEF Unstoppably Bald Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Yeah if I had a debit card attached to PSN I'd have replaced it so fast.

    JAEF on
  • Options
    Sorcha RavenlockSorcha Ravenlock Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Sony has taken all SOE games down with the message:
    We have had to take the SOE service down temporarily. In the course of our investigation into the intrusion into our systems we have discovered an issue that warrants enough concern for us to take the service down effective immediately. We will provide an update later today (Monday).

    I got this message when trying to acces Free Realms, and the main EQ2 site gives the same.
    Link: http://maintenance.station.sony.com/

    Does anyone know what's going on with this?

    Sorcha Ravenlock on
  • Options
    MechMantisMechMantis Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Jesus Christ it's metastasizing.

    What in the hell is going on over there?

    MechMantis on
  • Options
    adytumadytum The Inevitable Rise And FallRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Sony should definitely publish a list of all the compromised CC information, so we can match the stolen information against those who have had fraudulent activity on their cards.

    adytum on
  • Options
    LarsLars Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Hmmm...give Sony the benefit of the doubt and assume they took down all the SoE stuff to update it's security, or assume fuckmuppetry and that it took Sony two weeks to realize all the Everquest users' credit cards were compromised as well?

    Lars on
  • Options
    TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    In the wake of the PSN attack, SOE did claim that all of their customer data was perfectly safe.
    SOE wrote:
    We have been conducting a thorough investigation and, to the best of our knowledge, no customer personal information got out to any unauthorized person or persons.

    There's a possibility that they found an urgent issue they needed to patch, it couldn't wait, and they brought the system down to fix it before another attack occurred. Then again, I suppose they could've been mistaken when they first made that statement, or an actual second attack has transpired. Only time will tell, unfortunately.

    TetraNitroCubane on
  • Options
    Magic PinkMagic Pink Tur-Boner-Fed Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Lars wrote: »
    Hmmm...give Sony the benefit of the doubt and assume they took down all the SoE stuff to update it's security, or assume fuckmuppetry and that it took Sony two weeks to realize all the Everquest users' credit cards were compromised as well?

    Ha ha you pretend there's a choice. Yer funny.

    Magic Pink on
  • Options
    The DermThe Derm Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I wonder if this is how they got to bin Laden...

    The Derm on
    Overwhelmed as one would be, placed in my position
    Such a heavy burden now to be the one
    Born to bare and read to all the details of our ending
    To write it down for all the world to see
    But I forgot my pen...
  • Options
    BEAST!BEAST! Adventurer Adventure!!!!!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    exis wrote: »
    Why do I trust Amazon over Sony? Because Amazon secures my password in SHA-2 salted hashes. Not in cleartext files. I assume they use similar or higher encryption for the more sensitive of my data.

    Sony admits the server vulnerability was a known exploit. Again, they were incompetent in keeping their server software and security up to date.

    While you can get your info stolen anywhere, its a more sound decision to trust the companies which have shown an ability to perform simple security measures vs a company that thinks its okay to leave my login password unhashed. Or to store my CC# in probably unsalted hash. Hell, I expect to hear they use md5. Just to add insult to injury.

    Wait, what? Did Sony actually announce that they haven't been hashing at all? In the last thread this was all lols, but you seem a lot more certain all of a sudden.

    In regards to PSN passwords, and all your user info, Sony has said that none of it was encrypted. The only thing they said was encrypted was the CC info, which was on a different part of the server.
    sony said that passwords weren't encrypted, they were HASHED.....encryption can be reversed, hashing cannot (although you can still brute force hashing)

    BEAST! on
    dfzn9elrnajf.png
  • Options
    urahonkyurahonky Resident FF7R hater Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Hashing can be reverse engineered. If the guy was smart enough to get into the PSN security, I'm sure he's smart enough to get through the hash.

    e: depending on the hash, of course, but stuff like: http://www.tmto.org/pages/passwordtools/hashcracker/ exists.

    urahonky on
  • Options
    TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Hashing can be useless if you're using an outdated hash. If it was DES or MD5, then your passwords may have just as well been in clear text.

    Additionally, why the hell weren't they salting the hashes? That's standard practice.

    TetraNitroCubane on
  • Options
    plufimplufim Dr Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    OT, but as someone who has no idea what that means, "salting the hashes" sounds hilarious.

    plufim on
    3DS 0302-0029-3193 NNID plufim steam plufim PSN plufim
    steam_sig.png
  • Options
    IcemopperIcemopper Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    plufim wrote: »
    OT, but as someone who has no idea what that means, "salting the hashes" sounds hilarious.

    I just got really hungry and started thinking about how to serve it with eggs.

    Icemopper on
  • Options
    RizziRizzi Sydney, Australia.Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I do love me some nice crispy hashes with bacon and eggs.

    Rizzi on
  • Options
    TetraNitroCubaneTetraNitroCubane The Djinnerator At the bottom of a bottleRegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Icemopper wrote: »
    plufim wrote: »
    OT, but as someone who has no idea what that means, "salting the hashes" sounds hilarious.

    I just got really hungry and started thinking about how to serve it with eggs.

    I imagine this was also Sony's reaction.

    TetraNitroCubane on
  • Options
    DiarmuidDiarmuid Amazing Meatball Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    http://blog.us.playstation.com/2011/05/02/playstation-network-security-update/
    On Tuesday, April 26 we shared that some information that was compromised in connection with an illegal and unauthorized intrusion into our network. Once again, we’d like to apologize to the many users who were inconvenienced and worried abut this situation.

    We want to state this again given the increase in speculation about credit card information being used fraudulently. One report indicated that a group tried to sell millions of credit card numbers back to Sony. To my knowledge there is no truth to this report of a list, or that Sony was offered an opportunity to purchase the list.

    One other point to clarify is from this weekend’s press conference. While the passwords that were stored were not “encrypted,” they were transformed using a cryptographic hash function. There is a difference between these two types of security measures which is why we said the passwords had not been encrypted. But I want to be very clear that the passwords were not stored in our database in cleartext form. For a description of the difference between encryption and hashing, follow this link.

    To reiterate a few other security measures for your information: Sony will not contact you in any way, including by email, asking for your credit card number, social security number or other personally identifiable information. If you are asked for this information, you can be confident Sony is not the entity asking. When the PlayStation Network and Qriocity services are fully restored, we strongly recommend that you log on and change your password. Additionally, if you use your PlayStation Network or Qriocity user name or password for other unrelated services or accounts, we strongly recommend that you change them, as well. To protect against possible identity theft or other financial loss, we encourage you to remain vigilant, to review your account statements and to monitor your credit reports.

    We continue to work with law enforcement and forensic experts to identify the criminals behind the attack. Once again, we apologize for causing users concern over this matter.

    Our objective is to increase security so our customers can safely and confidently play games and use our network and media services. We will continue to provide updates as we have them.

    Take that however you want.

    edit: No mention of which hash function was used, but I'd imagine Sony regard that as a security issue and would never disclose it.

    Diarmuid on
  • Options
    BEAST!BEAST! Adventurer Adventure!!!!!Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Hashing can be useless if you're using an outdated hash. If it was DES or MD5, then your passwords may have just as well been in clear text.

    Additionally, why the hell weren't they salting the hashes? That's standard practice.
    nobody said they weren't salted

    as for what urahonky said, no they can't be reverse engineered...you can have a huge database of results that a person can test against, but if your password is even slightly complicated there's no chance it will be in the database....all this "cracker" is doing is a search on passwords they have md5'd and put in their database

    BEAST! on
    dfzn9elrnajf.png
  • Options
    NackmatholnNackmatholn Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    BEAST! wrote: »
    Hashing can be useless if you're using an outdated hash. If it was DES or MD5, then your passwords may have just as well been in clear text.

    Additionally, why the hell weren't they salting the hashes? That's standard practice.
    nobody said they weren't salted

    as for what urahonky said, no they can't be reverse engineered...you can have a huge database of results that a person can test against, but if your password is even slightly complicated there's no chance it will be in the database....all this "cracker" is doing is a search on passwords they have md5'd and put in their database

    Yes, but if you have the hash list, and the hash algorithm you can brute force against the hash list, rather than pinging the nonexistent auth servers. I think that ability would speed up the brute forcing substantially, especially once you start getting a pre-hashed dictionary built up. but that's assuming that the hash algorithm was acquired before everything fell apart too. Anyone remember if there was a character limit for the passwords? Looks like no upper limit, min was 8 characters. letters and numbers only, so that gives 62 possibilities per character, minimum of 8 characters, no repeated characters beyond 2 in sequence. "Average" people will go with the minimum requirement of 8 characters so that gives about 2.18340106 × 10^14 possible hashes. That is a <i>massive</i> number, but combine standard pass cracking dictionaries to the hash algorithm and you will probably unlock a good 30-50% of the "low hanging fruit"

    So, possible that they can get de-hashed, but if your smart about your password, not really all that probable.

    I need to stay off of forums when I have bouts of insomnia!

    Nackmatholn on
    camo_sig2.png PSN - Nackmatholn
  • Options
    never dienever die Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Just canceled my card. New one should be in by ten days. finally decided it wasn't worth waiting on Sony to make a definitive statement.

    never die on
  • Options
    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    I'm really hoping the SOE fuckup wasn't the result of the same shit.

    Couscous on
  • Options
    DecoyDecoy Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Couscous wrote: »
    I'm really hoping the SOE fuckup wasn't the result of the same shit.

    Good lord. I just saw SOE was taken down to. This should be fun. /sigh

    Decoy on
  • Options
    cloudeaglecloudeagle Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    Couscous wrote: »
    I'm really hoping the SOE fuckup wasn't the result of the same shit.

    They'd better pray not, or else it's going to make them look downright incompetent. Especially since they swore SOE was in the clear earlier.

    cloudeagle on
    Switch: 3947-4890-9293
  • Options
    CouscousCouscous Registered User regular
    edited May 2011
    http://www.bgr.com/2011/05/02/sony-suffers-another-major-security-breach/
    Nikkei.com on Monday reported that an online Sony gaming network has once again fallen victim to a cyberattack. This time, the attack may have exposed the credit card numbers of thousands of Sony customers from around the world. According to the report, over 12,700 customer credit card numbers were stolen during a breach of Sony’s online gaming network, Sony Online Entertainment. According to Nikkei.com, Sony discovered the possible attack on Sunday. Sony recently suffered a similar attack on its PlayStation Network, which was offline for days as a result of the breach. Though Sony has yet to confirm this new incident publicly, the Sony Online Entertainment portal has been taken offline while Sony investigates the matter.
    Lolsony?
    Edit: Can't tell if it is accurate because I don't have a Nikkei account.

    Couscous on
  • Options
    Triple BTriple B Bastard of the North MARegistered User regular
    edited May 2011
    man, hash is already salty enough

    why would you put more salt on it

    Triple B on
    Steam/XBL/PSN: FiveAgainst1
Sign In or Register to comment.