Yeah, I always assumed it was a reaper from the start and I didn't know it was supposed to be a reveal at all!
Well I don't think it was ever intended to be a surprise to the player, but the point was that up until the suicide mission, Shepard might suspect, but had no way of actually knowing for sure that Harby was a reaper. And as long as Harby had a puppet to wear he was never going to show his face; he's not a dumbass like Sovy.
Hey that's not nice. Sovy was way cooler than Harbinger.
You know...playing through Arrival again and something really bugs me...
So...you guys want to let the Reapers into the galaxy...start the invasion that cool.
So...why in the hell do you take Shepard, probably the only person who can stop you...right to your base?
Because...
They're indoctrinated, not genuinely loyal to the Reapers. Hence they're subsconsciously working against themselves, using the same loose rationalizations that justified pro-Reaper behavior. Why not kill Shepherd? Because he should see the glory of the Reapers/we can convert him into a powerful ally! (And maybe he'll break free and stop us, not that we want that to happen...)
This is why they never just deleted the preset targeting for the Mass Relay. The indoctrination has enough control to stop them from pushing the button, but they have enough self-control to leave the button there to be pushed.
You know...playing through Arrival again and something really bugs me...
So...you guys want to let the Reapers into the galaxy...start the invasion that cool.
So...why in the hell do you take Shepard, probably the only person who can stop you...right to your base?
Because...
They're indoctrinated, not genuinely loyal to the Reapers. Hence they're subsconsciously working against themselves, using the same loose rationalizations that justified pro-Reaper behavior. Why not kill Shepherd? Because he should see the glory of the Reapers/we can convert him into a powerful ally! (And maybe he'll break free and stop us, not that we want that to happen...)
This is why they never just deleted the preset targeting for the Mass Relay. The indoctrination has enough control to stop them from pushing the button, but they have enough self-control to leave the button there to be pushed.
i like this explanation. it's why saren could be convinced to off himself at the end of all my playthroughs. >:D
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
Face it, Shepard is a suave bitch.
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
If you're going to have a hand wave, make it a good one. :P
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Hmm...one more thing I thought about.
At the end of Arrival...the soldiers trying to stop you from getting to the communication tower are left by an escape pod. If that escape pod managed to get to the mass relay that means that the Reapers have indoctrinated sleeper agents walking about. That can't be good.
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
At the end of Arrival...the soldiers trying to stop you from getting to the communication tower are left by an escape pod. If that escape pod managed to get to the mass relay that means that the Reapers have indoctrinated sleeper agents walking about. That can't be good.
Eh, they surely aren't the only ones. I'm willing to bet there are more than a few indoctrinated persons in various governments. Though I'm not specifically pointing to the Council, since I am one of the few who actually think it's reasonable of them to doubt that mythical creatures actually exist and are planning to despoil the entire galaxy.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
I finally understood why they named themselves Cerberus - because of the Charon relay. Jeepers I'm slow.
Though that makes it seem like they're suggesting our solar system is Hades...
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
I finally understood why they named themselves Cerberus - because of the Charon relay. Jeepers I'm slow.
Though that makes it seem like they're suggesting our solar system is Hades...
Pluto = Hades
Yes, I know, but the codex about the cerberus manifesto specifically makes the analogy of needing a cerberus to keep people from entering the Charon relay - they're not just talking about astronomical bodies, they're calling up the image of Charon, the ferryman of the river styx, and Cerberus, the three-headed dog acting as a guard - though kind of a weird choice, since Cerberus was ostensibly there to keep people in, not keep enemies out. But now that I think about it like that, maybe Cerberus is suggesting that the rest of the galaxy is Hades, and Cerberus is guarding the gate to make sure they don't leave.
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
I finally understood why they named themselves Cerberus - because of the Charon relay. Jeepers I'm slow.
Though that makes it seem like they're suggesting our solar system is Hades...
Pluto = Hades
Yes, I know, but the codex about the cerberus manifesto specifically makes the analogy of needing a cerberus to keep people from entering the Charon relay - they're not just talking about astronomical bodies, they're calling up the image of Charon, the ferryman of the river styx, and Cerberus, the three-headed dog acting as a guard - though kind of a weird choice, since Cerberus was ostensibly there to keep people in, not keep enemies out. But now that I think about it like that, maybe Cerberus is suggesting that the rest of the galaxy is Hades, and Cerberus is guarding the gate to make sure they don't leave.
so our solar system is basically Outside the Asylum. where TIM the Sane lives. :^:
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
So...I guess the next book will have more Kai Leng in it.
Can't wait til the game comes out so I can shoot him in the face. And if LotSB is any indication I'm thinking the boss battles in ME3 will be a lot more dynamic.
At the end of Arrival...the soldiers trying to stop you from getting to the communication tower are left by an escape pod. If that escape pod managed to get to the mass relay that means that the Reapers have indoctrinated sleeper agents walking about. That can't be good.
Eh, they surely aren't the only ones. I'm willing to bet there are more than a few indoctrinated persons in various governments. Though I'm not specifically pointing to the Council, since I am one of the few who actually think it's reasonable of them to doubt that mythical creatures actually exist and are planning to despoil the entire galaxy.
It is not unreasonable per se to disbelieve in the Reapers. However, the Council is doing so because they're useless stubborn cowardly fools who refuse to admit that a real challenge to the existence of galactic civilization can exist because they like things the way they are and have convinced themselves that it can't change.
I hold that the Council knows all about the reapers but for political and social reasons choose to pretend they don't. It makes sense I suppose. From their perspective it would seem like there's nothing that can be done about it, we're all fucked; might as well keep the peace until then and let folks go quickly instead of having mass panic leading up to it.
I mean, Shepards information aside, they have too many operatives, too many spectres, too many places, to not put it together.
the thing you have to understand about the council is that they already saw a reaper and its leg even landed right in their chambers, so they are either mortally stupid or they're hiding something
but it doesn't matter, because they're still jerks
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
edited August 2011
Ok, so they might be able to buy that the ship Saren was using was ultra advanced technology. That doesn't mean that they are 'stupid' if they don't believe that that superadvanced ship is a mythological being from a race of mythological beings. If Shepard came before the council claiming that Saren was riding around in Zeus himself and that the entire galactic community was about to get a lightning bolt up the ass, would anyone be surprised at the Council's skepticism?
Cambiata on
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
Pretty much every squadmate flat out says that the council knows but is lying. I suppose it makes sense not to tell the person who 'resurrected' after two years of death and only checks in when passing by after associating with a terrorist group.
Ok, so they might be able to buy that the ship Saren was using was ultra advanced technology. That doesn't mean that they are 'stupid' if they don't believe that that superadvanced ship is a mythological being from a race of mythological beings. If Shepard came before the council claiming that Saren was riding around in Zeus himself and that the entire galactic community was about to get a lightning bolt up the ass, would anyone be surprised at the Council's skepticism?
I see you have fallen for Saren's charisma which led him to trick the geth and plant an elaborate ruse about machine gods to throw off Shepard
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CambiataCommander ShepardThe likes of which even GAWD has never seenRegistered Userregular
Ok, so they might be able to buy that the ship Saren was using was ultra advanced technology. That doesn't mean that they are 'stupid' if they don't believe that that superadvanced ship is a mythological being from a race of mythological beings. If Shepard came before the council claiming that Saren was riding around in Zeus himself and that the entire galactic community was about to get a lightning bolt up the ass, would anyone be surprised at the Council's skepticism?
I see you have fallen for Saren's charisma which led him to trick the geth and plant an elaborate ruse about machine gods to throw off Shepard
Well they're obviously lying about the Geth. They know Sovereign wasn't a Geth creation, but they don't think Sovereign was Zeus, either. They may suspect that there might be more of whatever Sovereign was out there, but they don't believe in mythical beings out to rape the universe. So it's a mix of unbelief and lying to keep the populace calm.
Cambiata on
"If you divide the whole world into just enemies and friends, you'll end up destroying everything" --Nausicaa of the Valley of Wind
Ok, so they might be able to buy that the ship Saren was using was ultra advanced technology. That doesn't mean that they are 'stupid' if they don't believe that that superadvanced ship is a mythological being from a race of mythological beings. If Shepard came before the council claiming that Saren was riding around in Zeus himself and that the entire galactic community was about to get a lightning bolt up the ass, would anyone be surprised at the Council's skepticism?
I see you have fallen for Saren's charisma which led him to trick the geth and plant an elaborate ruse about machine gods to throw off Shepard
Well they're obviously lying about the Geth. They know Sovereign wasn't a Geth creation, but they don't think Sovereign was Zeus, either. They may suspect that there might be more of whatever Sovereign was out there, but they don't believe in mythical beings out to rape the universe. So it's a mix of unbelief and lying to keep the populace calm.
The Council reaction is nothing worse than elected officials right now. There were signs of the debt bubble blowing up in 2006, but they were ignored. The Fed switched from telling Congress it was sustainable price growth, to a stall with a soft landing, to Congress really needs to pass TARP because the economy will collapse otherwise when the bubble burst in the Fall of 2008.
To counter the Reaper threat would require a total war approach, in a time when there is no large and present danger. It would be nice if the Council has been acting like FDR prior to WW2, but I doubt it.
Ok, so they might be able to buy that the ship Saren was using was ultra advanced technology. That doesn't mean that they are 'stupid' if they don't believe that that superadvanced ship is a mythological being from a race of mythological beings. If Shepard came before the council claiming that Saren was riding around in Zeus himself and that the entire galactic community was about to get a lightning bolt up the ass, would anyone be surprised at the Council's skepticism?
I see you have fallen for Saren's charisma which led him to trick the geth and plant an elaborate ruse about machine gods to throw off Shepard
Well they're obviously lying about the Geth. They know Sovereign wasn't a Geth creation, but they don't think Sovereign was Zeus, either. They may suspect that there might be more of whatever Sovereign was out there, but they don't believe in mythical beings out to rape the universe. So it's a mix of unbelief and lying to keep the populace calm.
what is Saren's motivation for attacking the Citadel?
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
He's jealous of their freedom.
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chiasaur11Never doubt a raccoon.Do you think it's trademarked?Registered Userregular
Ok, so they might be able to buy that the ship Saren was using was ultra advanced technology. That doesn't mean that they are 'stupid' if they don't believe that that superadvanced ship is a mythological being from a race of mythological beings. If Shepard came before the council claiming that Saren was riding around in Zeus himself and that the entire galactic community was about to get a lightning bolt up the ass, would anyone be surprised at the Council's skepticism?
I see you have fallen for Saren's charisma which led him to trick the geth and plant an elaborate ruse about machine gods to throw off Shepard
Well they're obviously lying about the Geth. They know Sovereign wasn't a Geth creation, but they don't think Sovereign was Zeus, either. They may suspect that there might be more of whatever Sovereign was out there, but they don't believe in mythical beings out to rape the universe. So it's a mix of unbelief and lying to keep the populace calm.
what is Saren's motivation for attacking the Citadel?
Killing the council.
Do you think Shepard is the only Spectre who hates the Turian councilor? Half of Blasto's cases are rogue agents going after the guy for the air quotes.
From what we've seen, much of Citadel Space is literally a shot of tequilla and a dare away from total anarchy. And not just "Anarchy in the UK" anarchy either--murder and genocide upon eachother anarchy. Literally. Frankly, I'm shocked such a thing exists in the first place.
The mere news of the Reapers would be more than enough to do this. It's not an idle solution they're practicing, but I can see why they're doing it.
EDIT: Or maybe it'll actually unite the galaxy. Who knows?
EDIT EDIT: Or maybe it'll be like China when Japan invaded, when it turned out, "Ha ha ha, we're not actually united against the foreign invader, we're going to keep killing eachother, no matter how horrible the outside invader is."
According to the council the Geth followed Saren because he was a charismatic leader with an advanced ship like Sovvie and he pulled the wool over their eyes. Just like he did you Shepard.
They also say the Geth built Sovvie.
If this is 'wink wink nudge nudge' they REALLY suck at it.
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DragkoniasThat Guy Who Does StuffYou Know, There. Registered Userregular
Well...Saren did have a lot of CHARISMA! that's why it takes like 10+ bars to persuade him.
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Thank you. Now I know what will be in my nightmares tonight.
Hey that's not nice. Sovy was way cooler than Harbinger.
Because...
This is why they never just deleted the preset targeting for the Mass Relay. The indoctrination has enough control to stop them from pushing the button, but they have enough self-control to leave the button there to be pushed.
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
/nod
Though that makes it seem like they're suggesting our solar system is Hades...
edit: Weren't they going to name that new Pluto moon Cerberus?
Yes, I know, but the codex about the cerberus manifesto specifically makes the analogy of needing a cerberus to keep people from entering the Charon relay - they're not just talking about astronomical bodies, they're calling up the image of Charon, the ferryman of the river styx, and Cerberus, the three-headed dog acting as a guard - though kind of a weird choice, since Cerberus was ostensibly there to keep people in, not keep enemies out. But now that I think about it like that, maybe Cerberus is suggesting that the rest of the galaxy is Hades, and Cerberus is guarding the gate to make sure they don't leave.
lrn 2 read, Skull
so our solar system is basically Outside the Asylum. where TIM the Sane lives. :^:
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
So...I guess the next book will have more Kai Leng in it.
Can't wait til the game comes out so I can shoot him in the face. And if LotSB is any indication I'm thinking the boss battles in ME3 will be a lot more dynamic.
...yeah, I'm not too fond of the Council.
I mean, Shepards information aside, they have too many operatives, too many spectres, too many places, to not put it together.
Origin: Galedrid - Nintendo: Galedrid/3222-6858-1045
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but it doesn't matter, because they're still jerks
Pretty much every squadmate flat out says that the council knows but is lying. I suppose it makes sense not to tell the person who 'resurrected' after two years of death and only checks in when passing by after associating with a terrorist group.
I see you have fallen for Saren's charisma which led him to trick the geth and plant an elaborate ruse about machine gods to throw off Shepard
Well they're obviously lying about the Geth. They know Sovereign wasn't a Geth creation, but they don't think Sovereign was Zeus, either. They may suspect that there might be more of whatever Sovereign was out there, but they don't believe in mythical beings out to rape the universe. So it's a mix of unbelief and lying to keep the populace calm.
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
Someone's getting coal for Christmas.
Why I fear the ocean.
The Council reaction is nothing worse than elected officials right now. There were signs of the debt bubble blowing up in 2006, but they were ignored. The Fed switched from telling Congress it was sustainable price growth, to a stall with a soft landing, to Congress really needs to pass TARP because the economy will collapse otherwise when the bubble burst in the Fall of 2008.
To counter the Reaper threat would require a total war approach, in a time when there is no large and present danger. It would be nice if the Council has been acting like FDR prior to WW2, but I doubt it.
what is Saren's motivation for attacking the Citadel?
Killing the council.
Do you think Shepard is the only Spectre who hates the Turian councilor? Half of Blasto's cases are rogue agents going after the guy for the air quotes.
Why I fear the ocean.
"You will get presents because we allow it. And you will leave cookies out because we demand it"
Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
The mere news of the Reapers would be more than enough to do this. It's not an idle solution they're practicing, but I can see why they're doing it.
EDIT: Or maybe it'll actually unite the galaxy. Who knows?
EDIT EDIT: Or maybe it'll be like China when Japan invaded, when it turned out, "Ha ha ha, we're not actually united against the foreign invader, we're going to keep killing eachother, no matter how horrible the outside invader is."
Registered just for the Mass Effect threads | Steam: click ^^^ | Origin: curlyhairedboy
They also say the Geth built Sovvie.
If this is 'wink wink nudge nudge' they REALLY suck at it.