Pretty sure the Fed's annual audits are run internally. Now I'm not a Paulite or anything or even against the Fed, but the notion of using solely internal audits is a little off putting.
Self-control is fine in Paul's books for everyone else, why not the Fed?
I'm not going to argue for libertarians carrot.
0
Options
Captain Marcusnow arrives the hour of actionRegistered Userregular
Paul was critical of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, arguing that it sanctioned federal interference in the labor market and did not improve race relations. He once remarked: "The Civil Rights Act of 1964 not only violated the Constitution and reduced individual liberty; it also failed to achieve its stated goals of promoting racial harmony and a color-blind society".
Dude is crazy
As much good as that did, he may be right in saying that it didn't promote racial harmony. What it DID provide is just law.
Anyways Obama's speech was pretty good. We need to be better at moving the onus on jobs from Obummer to the Republicans, though. Because as of right now they are not getting blamed for anything, and they've held/blocked Congress for a year now.
Paul was critical of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, arguing that it sanctioned federal interference in the labor market and did not improve race relations. He once remarked: "The Civil Rights Act of 1964 not only violated the Constitution and reduced individual liberty; it also failed to achieve its stated goals of promoting racial harmony and a color-blind society".
Dude is crazy
As much good as that did, he may be right in saying that it didn't promote racial harmony. What it DID provide is just law.
Anyways Obama's speech was pretty good. We need to be better at moving the onus on jobs from Obummer to the Republicans, though. Because as of right now they are not getting blamed for anything, and they've held/blocked Congress for a year now.
If you read the website, it says they like him because he's against war as a foreign policy and isn't corrupt. I don't think that's a particularly fascist position. What I'm saying is, they support him for reasons which don't really relate to the fascist-specific platform, according to this website anyway.
Pretty sure the Fed's annual audits are run internally. Now I'm not a Paulite or anything or even against the Fed, but the notion of using solely internal audits is a little off putting.
Self-control is fine in Paul's books for everyone else, why not the Fed?
I'm not going to argue for libertarians carrot.
You can always argue for the sake of communication. If we are wrong, which you seem to think so, then at least educate us as to why we are wrong, so that maybe I can make better voting next fall.
Pretty sure the Fed's annual audits are run internally. Now I'm not a Paulite or anything or even against the Fed, but the notion of using solely internal audits is a little off putting.
Self-control is fine in Paul's books for everyone else, why not the Fed?
I'm not going to argue for libertarians carrot.
You can always argue for the sake of communication. If we are wrong, which you seem to think so, then at least educate us as to why we are wrong, so that maybe I can make better voting next fall.
No, what I wasn't interested in doing was making libertarians argument's for them. I'm not a libertarian.
However, government corruption is a thing and transparency is a great tool. So sure the Fed has a legitimate need for secrecy, but the occasional outside audit wouldn't really a bad idea.
I simply don't trust any group, benign or not, private or public to be able to police itself.
I don't trust any group to audit the fed when whatever they say, regardless of validity, has the power to move global markets as much as it would. What if S&P, who downgraded the US' credit at a time of negative interest treasuries audited the fed and gave it a negative rating just because it aligned with their politics?
In any case, Ron Paul doesn't want to audit the fed, he wants to end the fed and the concept of fiat currency.
It's looney toons of the highest order, either the economy would need to contract by something like 95% (and given that the recession was only a few % of GDP loss, take a guess at that effect), or gold would need to go up to millions of dollars an ounce. It's nonsensical gibberish, not economic policy.
I might buy that, except that their whole website is riddled with errors, and I don't think the "American Fascist Party" would be big on using French spellings.
What isn't fascist about the Tea Party? The way they want to keep certain voting blocs from voting? Or the way they want to shut down free speech if they disagree with it?
I'm just tying this tangent together with the thread topic.
Or trying to at least.
By spouting nonsense? Before your post, nobody had called anybody fascist who hadn't already proudly claimed the label. Summarizing that as "selecting fringe groups and calling them fascists" is patently absurd.
What isn't fascist about the Tea Party? The way they want to keep certain voting blocs from voting? Or the way they want to shut down free speech if they disagree with it?
This tactic is a winner in 2012. Thanatos, you should def. put it on the list of Electoral Strategies.
Pretty sure the Fed's annual audits are run internally. Now I'm not a Paulite or anything or even against the Fed, but the notion of using solely internal audits is a little off putting.
Okay, when people say Audit the Fed what they mean is that currently when a bank asks the Fed for a loan to bail it out, that isn't subject to the GAO or made public. This is because we consider runs on the banks to be bad things in general, and that is what can happen if the public were to immediately find out an institution might've been insolvent. But the Fed is otherwise completely audited and its books are all open. Congress and the GAO just don't have the ability to review or have any say over which banks the Fed makes its loans to.
If the best you can come up with against someone who's patently ignorant is to yell back at him, "Yeah? Well there's BOOKS, and they say you're WRONG!"
Then honestly you're not coming out of this looking great either.
0
Options
No-QuarterNothing To FearBut Fear ItselfRegistered Userregular
What isn't fascist about the Tea Party? The way they want to keep certain voting blocs from voting? Or the way they want to shut down free speech if they disagree with it?
This tactic is a winner in 2012. Thanatos, you should def. put it on the list of Electoral Strategies.
I love how you always respond to the messages that *don't* completely destroy whatever nonsensical crap you've just spewed.
What isn't fascist about the Tea Party? The way they want to keep certain voting blocs from voting? Or the way they want to shut down free speech if they disagree with it?
This tactic is a winner in 2012. Thanatos, you should def. put it on the list of Electoral Strategies.
I love how you always respond to the messages that *don't* completely destroy whatever nonsensical crap you've just spewed.
I'm not trying to be funny. The "I love how you do bad thing x" rhetorical construction is super goosey, so I always mock it. And the main point here is that the thread topic has been forgotten in tangents about how Ronpaul is supported by fascists and how terrible the Tea Party is. It's been so thoroughly forgotten that some people didn't even catch the sarcastic reference to the thread title in that first comment I made.
And if you hadn't been trying to be a clever goose and actually steered the conversation back on topic instead of hamfistedly combining the tangent with the main topic of the thread, we would actually be talking about Democratic electoral strategies now.
I'm not trying to be funny. The "I love how you do bad thing x" rhetorical construction is super goosey, so I always mock it. And the main point here is that the thread topic has been forgotten in tangents about how Ronpaul is supported by fascists and how terrible the Tea Party is. It's been so thoroughly forgotten that some people didn't even catch the sarcastic reference to the thread title in that first comment I made.
I capitalized it and everything!
That's fair.
I find it reprehensible, intellectually lazy, and insulting when you cherry-pick the thread for the few responses of many that don't completely destroy whatever nonsense you've just spewed.
EDIT: Doubly so if all it really is a transparent attempt to derail the thread instead of posting anything constructive.
So back to Obama's speech and deficit plan. It felt like a good step in the right direction.
He suffered negative fallout from the debt ceiling debate issue, but the more radical members of Congress suffered considerably WORSE fallout. Unfavorable views of the TEA party jumped 20 points while favorable views fell slightly: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/05/us/politics/05teaparty.html
Now is a really good time to start with more hardline rhetoric, as the pendulum of public opinion may sway with him, not against him.
I'm not trying to be funny. The "I love how you do bad thing x" rhetorical construction is super goosey, so I always mock it. And the main point here is that the thread topic has been forgotten in tangents about how Ronpaul is supported by fascists and how terrible the Tea Party is. It's been so thoroughly forgotten that some people didn't even catch the sarcastic reference to the thread title in that first comment I made.
I capitalized it and everything!
That's fair.
I find it reprehensible, intellectually lazy, and insulting when you cherry-pick the thread for the few responses of many that don't completely destroy whatever nonsense you've just spewed.
EDIT: Doubly so if all it really is a transparent attempt to derail the thread instead of posting anything constructive.
OK, since we're so stubbornly committed to keeping this thread on topic I'll bite.
Where in this thread did Spool get completely destroyed?
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
If the best you can come up with against someone who's patently ignorant is to yell back at him, "Yeah? Well there's BOOKS, and they say you're WRONG!"
Then honestly you're not coming out of this looking great either.
0
Options
No-QuarterNothing To FearBut Fear ItselfRegistered Userregular
edited September 2011
"OK, since we're so stubbornly committed to keeping this thread on topic I'll bite.
Where in this thread did Spool get completely destroyed?"
Really dude?
Captaincarrot
spool32 wrote:
I'm just tying this tangent together with the thread topic.
Or trying to at least.
By spouting nonsense? Before your post, nobody had called anybody fascist who hadn't already proudly claimed the label. Summarizing that as "selecting fringe groups and calling them fascists" is patently absurd.
Pretty sure the Fed's annual audits are run internally. Now I'm not a Paulite or anything or even against the Fed, but the notion of using solely internal audits is a little off putting.
I'm not trying to be funny. The "I love how you do bad thing x" rhetorical construction is super goosey, so I always mock it. And the main point here is that the thread topic has been forgotten in tangents about how Ronpaul is supported by fascists and how terrible the Tea Party is. It's been so thoroughly forgotten that some people didn't even catch the sarcastic reference to the thread title in that first comment I made.
I capitalized it and everything!
That's fair.
I find it reprehensible, intellectually lazy, and insulting when you cherry-pick the thread for the few responses of many that don't completely destroy whatever nonsense you've just spewed.
EDIT: Doubly so if all it really is a transparent attempt to derail the thread instead of posting anything constructive.
OK, since we're so stubbornly committed to keeping this thread on topic I'll bite.
Where in this thread did Spool get completely destroyed?
About 10 posts up where he complained about us calling the American Fascist Society fascists.
0
Options
Sir Landsharkresting shark faceRegistered Userregular
So...let me understand this.
Thread goes way OT about Ron Paul and fascists. Spool sarcastically tries to connect it to the thread title and someone incorrectly assumes Spool is making commentary on calling a fascist group fascists instead of pointing out how off topic the discussion has gone.
Yeah still don't see it, sorry. That strawman sure got owned though.
Please consider the environment before printing this post.
It'd sure have been nice if we'd agreed to actually do something. I still think that turning the vitriol up too high is a bad move.
Something very worth remembering, people get defensive when you reveal their hypocrisy, if you want to work around that you need to make something that leads them to support your conclusion in a way that lets them twist themselves into believing they were good people all along. Namely calling out congress and blaming them for misleading the people versus criticizing the electorate for not doing their own research. Whether or not it's right that people don't it still won't change the fact that they don't.
We need a strategy that's right, that works, and is viable over the long-term. I seriously think if we tried to make primarily funny videos, but instead based that comedy around revealing the stupid things congress is trying to pull over on us, that we might have a chance of engaging people in the process. You need to implicitly talk up the American people and dress down congress, because if someone believes something, even if it's an extraordinarily dangerous belief "I.E. cutting taxes always raises revenues/creates jobs because...CAPITALISM!" if you make them uncomfortable more often than not that'll just cause them to shut you out.
But if instead, there were a way to make people laugh about it. Point at their TVs and say "Oh you goosey congresscritter, there is no evidence that tax rates on the wealthy even effect job creation!" by illustrating the situation in a funny way that makes people realize the SITUATION is ridiculous but without evoking a lot of the personal attachment/projection people have with things they might believe. You do that so long as you do it subtly, portray the ideas being discussed as ridiculous without necessarily associating them to specific parties, congressman, etc, create a good appearance of fairness by keeping up with D criticisms and trying to maintain as much parity as possible in reporting on ridiculousness and I think it could happen.
Instead of making a youtube-based ad, which let's be frank, as political ads go it might've been a good one but without the ability to air that nationally that brings us absolutely zero gain. If we want to make our own videos and be effective we have to make something that people will WANT TO WATCH entirely on their own and you're just not going to catch that many viewers serving up nothing but fiery vitriol 24/7.
If the best you can come up with against someone who's patently ignorant is to yell back at him, "Yeah? Well there's BOOKS, and they say you're WRONG!"
Then honestly you're not coming out of this looking great either.
What isn't fascist about the Tea Party? The way they want to keep certain voting blocs from voting? Or the way they want to shut down free speech if they disagree with it?
I have yet to hear either of those things come from Ron Paul, a supposed representative of the Tea Party. (I have actually yet to hear those things said at all).
(Sorry for continuing this tangent, I find this interesting)
What isn't fascist about the Tea Party? The way they want to keep certain voting blocs from voting? Or the way they want to shut down free speech if they disagree with it?
I have yet to hear either of those things come from Ron Paul, a supposed representative of the Tea Party. (I have actually yet to hear those things said at all).
(Sorry for continuing this tangent, I find this interesting)
What isn't fascist about the Tea Party? The way they want to keep certain voting blocs from voting? Or the way they want to shut down free speech if they disagree with it?
When has the Tea Party ever supported either of these things?
Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
Rigorous Scholarship
I checked the link. It implies, without any evidence, that DMV closings in an era of government budget cuts are evidence of a conspiracy to disenfranchise Democratic voters. Sure.
Aetian Jupiter - 41 Gunslinger - The Old Republic
Rigorous Scholarship
Posts
I'm not going to argue for libertarians carrot.
You know who supports Ron Paul?
The fascists.
Anyways Obama's speech was pretty good. We need to be better at moving the onus on jobs from Obummer to the Republicans, though. Because as of right now they are not getting blamed for anything, and they've held/blocked Congress for a year now.
If you read the website, it says they like him because he's against war as a foreign policy and isn't corrupt. I don't think that's a particularly fascist position. What I'm saying is, they support him for reasons which don't really relate to the fascist-specific platform, according to this website anyway.
You can always argue for the sake of communication. If we are wrong, which you seem to think so, then at least educate us as to why we are wrong, so that maybe I can make better voting next fall.
No, what I wasn't interested in doing was making libertarians argument's for them. I'm not a libertarian.
However, government corruption is a thing and transparency is a great tool. So sure the Fed has a legitimate need for secrecy, but the occasional outside audit wouldn't really a bad idea.
I simply don't trust any group, benign or not, private or public to be able to police itself.
In any case, Ron Paul doesn't want to audit the fed, he wants to end the fed and the concept of fiat currency.
It's looney toons of the highest order, either the economy would need to contract by something like 95% (and given that the recession was only a few % of GDP loss, take a guess at that effect), or gold would need to go up to millions of dollars an ounce. It's nonsensical gibberish, not economic policy.
....
...
It's unfair that we're calling the American Fascist Party fascists?
I don't think it's the democrats who are applying the label here....
Or trying to at least.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
PAC-PAC
EDIT: Of course I'm not serious regarding the name...
This tactic is a winner in 2012. Thanatos, you should def. put it on the list of Electoral Strategies.
Okay, when people say Audit the Fed what they mean is that currently when a bank asks the Fed for a loan to bail it out, that isn't subject to the GAO or made public. This is because we consider runs on the banks to be bad things in general, and that is what can happen if the public were to immediately find out an institution might've been insolvent. But the Fed is otherwise completely audited and its books are all open. Congress and the GAO just don't have the ability to review or have any say over which banks the Fed makes its loans to.
I love how you always respond to the messages that *don't* completely destroy whatever nonsensical crap you've just spewed.
I don't think you really love that.
I'm not trying to be funny. The "I love how you do bad thing x" rhetorical construction is super goosey, so I always mock it. And the main point here is that the thread topic has been forgotten in tangents about how Ronpaul is supported by fascists and how terrible the Tea Party is. It's been so thoroughly forgotten that some people didn't even catch the sarcastic reference to the thread title in that first comment I made.
I capitalized it and everything!
That's fair.
I find it reprehensible, intellectually lazy, and insulting when you cherry-pick the thread for the few responses of many that don't completely destroy whatever nonsense you've just spewed.
EDIT: Doubly so if all it really is a transparent attempt to derail the thread instead of posting anything constructive.
He suffered negative fallout from the debt ceiling debate issue, but the more radical members of Congress suffered considerably WORSE fallout. Unfavorable views of the TEA party jumped 20 points while favorable views fell slightly: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/05/us/politics/05teaparty.html
Now is a really good time to start with more hardline rhetoric, as the pendulum of public opinion may sway with him, not against him.
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
OK, since we're so stubbornly committed to keeping this thread on topic I'll bite.
Where in this thread did Spool get completely destroyed?
If we form a pac, its name should be PAC-MAN. Penny Arcade Community - Mobilizing Against Nonsense. ;p
Where in this thread did Spool get completely destroyed?"
Really dude?
Captaincarrot
It's also a notion which is apparently inaccurate
About 10 posts up where he complained about us calling the American Fascist Society fascists.
Thread goes way OT about Ron Paul and fascists. Spool sarcastically tries to connect it to the thread title and someone incorrectly assumes Spool is making commentary on calling a fascist group fascists instead of pointing out how off topic the discussion has gone.
Yeah still don't see it, sorry. That strawman sure got owned though.
It'd sure have been nice if we'd agreed to actually do something. I still think that turning the vitriol up too high is a bad move.
Something very worth remembering, people get defensive when you reveal their hypocrisy, if you want to work around that you need to make something that leads them to support your conclusion in a way that lets them twist themselves into believing they were good people all along. Namely calling out congress and blaming them for misleading the people versus criticizing the electorate for not doing their own research. Whether or not it's right that people don't it still won't change the fact that they don't.
We need a strategy that's right, that works, and is viable over the long-term. I seriously think if we tried to make primarily funny videos, but instead based that comedy around revealing the stupid things congress is trying to pull over on us, that we might have a chance of engaging people in the process. You need to implicitly talk up the American people and dress down congress, because if someone believes something, even if it's an extraordinarily dangerous belief "I.E. cutting taxes always raises revenues/creates jobs because...CAPITALISM!" if you make them uncomfortable more often than not that'll just cause them to shut you out.
But if instead, there were a way to make people laugh about it. Point at their TVs and say "Oh you goosey congresscritter, there is no evidence that tax rates on the wealthy even effect job creation!" by illustrating the situation in a funny way that makes people realize the SITUATION is ridiculous but without evoking a lot of the personal attachment/projection people have with things they might believe. You do that so long as you do it subtly, portray the ideas being discussed as ridiculous without necessarily associating them to specific parties, congressman, etc, create a good appearance of fairness by keeping up with D criticisms and trying to maintain as much parity as possible in reporting on ridiculousness and I think it could happen.
Instead of making a youtube-based ad, which let's be frank, as political ads go it might've been a good one but without the ability to air that nationally that brings us absolutely zero gain. If we want to make our own videos and be effective we have to make something that people will WANT TO WATCH entirely on their own and you're just not going to catch that many viewers serving up nothing but fiery vitriol 24/7.
I have yet to hear either of those things come from Ron Paul, a supposed representative of the Tea Party. (I have actually yet to hear those things said at all).
(Sorry for continuing this tangent, I find this interesting)
Actions speak louder than words.
Steam: pazython
Rigorous Scholarship
Voter suppression and caging have been long time tactics of the GOP to remove votes from demographics that traditionally lean democratic.
The Tea Party is nothing more than an astroturfed rebranding of the arch conservative wing of the GOP who have never repudiated those tactics.
Rigorous Scholarship