They still have brains with preserved functions shared by the entire human population. Even serial killers look the same as regular people because personal hygiene and compulsive murder aren't correlated characteristics. You shouldn't be surprised that it's hard to tell the difference between rapists and non-rapists because people don't have a counter of "Rapes I have performed:" on top of their heads, which is the only real definition that matters.
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
There's a difference between rape and violent rape. Violent rape is more likely to result in conviction due to the violence than the rape.
I wonder why Roman Polanski fled America, then?
His victim claims she was not violently attacked, and yet the state wanted to punish him to the full extent of the the law (and then some - they wanted to throw him into the same prison Manson currently resides in, and the two have something of a history).
You deny that there is inconvenience, victim blame and reluctance to report when it comes to robbery & assault?
There's a difference between "I don't want to report this robbery because it will be annoying" and "I don't want to report this rape because I'm afraid that no one will believe me, my rapist will probably go free and hurt me again to teach me a lesson, my reputation will be dragged through the mud, I'll be dehumanized and called a slut and told that I deserved it, and I'll be forced to constantly relive and scrutinize one of the most horrific and traumatic experiences of my life."
There's a difference between "You deserved to be robbed because you were walking alone at night with a hundred dollars in your pocket" and "You deserved to be raped because you were dressed like a skank and probably enjoyed it."
There's a difference between rape and violent rape. Violent rape is more likely to result in conviction due to the violence than the rape.
I wonder why Roman Polanski fled America, then?
His victim claims she was not violently attacked, and yet the state wanted to punish him to the full extent of the the law (and then some - they wanted to throw him into the same prison Manson currently resides in, and the two have something of a history).
You mean the paedophilia charges?
Again, a different circumstance to a regular rape of an adult capable of consent or non-consent. There is no possibility to `excuse' it.
Gosprey on
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KageraImitating the worst people. Since 2004Registered Userregular
There's a difference between rape and violent rape. Violent rape is more likely to result in conviction due to the violence than the rape.
I wonder why Roman Polanski fled America, then?
His victim claims she was not violently attacked, and yet the state wanted to punish him to the full extent of the the law (and then some - they wanted to throw him into the same prison Manson currently resides in, and the two have something of a history).
And can any women reading this (however unlikely ) please explain to me the appeal of 'slutty' clothes? (As defined by those wonderful 'Slut Walks' I heard so much about earlier this year) I guess I just don't understand the appeal of revealing so much skin.
-.-
...I know a lot of guys that enjoy wearing suits & ties (I'm not a big fan myself, though I do like a blazer/vest combination). Why? Because it's attractive, and they like looking attractive.
I won't speak for a woman, but my guess would be that they also enjoy looking attractive.
Nobody should have to justify why they chose to look sexy (or why they chose not to).
With Love and Courage
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FencingsaxIt is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understandingGNU Terry PratchettRegistered Userregular
There's a difference between rape and violent rape. Violent rape is more likely to result in conviction due to the violence than the rape.
I wonder why Roman Polanski fled America, then?
His victim claims she was not violently attacked, and yet the state wanted to punish him to the full extent of the the law (and then some - they wanted to throw him into the same prison Manson currently resides in, and the two have something of a history).
Well then this one scenario proves the rule!
Technically, the phrase "exception that proves the rule" is talking about an example that goers against it, that is testing, or "proving" it.
However I agree that the way we perceive rape as a whole is plenty screwed up.
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Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
There's a difference between "I don't want to report this robbery because it will be annoying" and "I don't want to report this rape because I'm afraid that no one will believe me, my rapist will probably go free and hurt me again to teach me a lesson, my reputation will be dragged through the mud, I'll be dehumanized and called a slut and told that I deserved it, and I'll be forced to constantly relive and scrutinize one of the most horrific and traumatic experiences of my life."
There's a difference between "You deserved to be robbed because you were walking alone at night with a hundred dollars in your pocket" and "You deserved to be raped because you were dressed like a skank and probably enjoyed it."
That's not why people choose not to report muggings or robberies, and frankly that's a pretty insulting & disgusting suggestion. There's a definite fear of reprisal (at least, in downtown cities there is), and while admittedly not a real sense that anyone will not believe you because of the volume of evidence at your disposal, your sense of self & confidence is most definitely impacted.
And you do think I deserved to be robbed, then, because I happened to walking through a park at night (I was working late, doing door to door canvassing, and my phone was out, which is what ultimately drew my attackers. I didn't have any cash on me at all - not that the thugs who jumped me would've known one way or another)?
- A world in which rapists are actually uniformly punished is not current and is a departure from most of law & history.
I disagree.
Can you name a violent rapist in the U.S. who was caught, and was not given the maximum penalty within their state (up to and including the death penalty)?
EDIT: Let's say within the past 30 years.
Here's the thing - violent sexual assault is only a very very tiny part of the problem. You know the whole ball of fail known as Herman Cain? Yeah, that's a much better demonstration with what the fuck is wrong.
And no, the OP is not just talking about violent rape - it's talking about how, in popular culture, the idea that women are just things for male sexual relief is highly prevalent.
And can any women reading this (however unlikely ) please explain to me the appeal of 'slutty' clothes? (As defined by those wonderful 'Slut Walks' I heard so much about earlier this year) I guess I just don't understand the appeal of revealing so much skin.
-.-
...I know a lot of guys that enjoy wearing suits & ties (I'm not a big fan myself, though I do like a blazer/vest combination). Why? Because it's attractive, and they like looking attractive.
I won't speak for a woman, but my guess would be that they also enjoy looking attractive.
Nobody should have to justify why they chose to look sexy (or why they chose not to).
Ditto on the ties, if not the suits.
I wasn't looking for justification, I honestly don't consider myself important enough in anyone's life to expect that, just trying to understand; which your answer helps so thanks.
But I guess I just feel like it's a shame that women feeling good about themselves has the effect of making people like me feel like shit. But eh, guess it can't be helped.
I think it is useful to have a minimum definition of `violent' being `leaves marks or injuries'. I imagine violent rape would be where there is enough violence that it would be felonous even without the rape.
And no, the OP is not just talking about violent rape - it's talking about how, in popular culture, the idea that women are just things for male sexual relief is highly prevalent.
Then Feral shouldn't have made the meat of the first post a quote block dealing with statements from violent predators?
I will say this about women wearing revealing clothing;
They have the option to wear it. I DON'T have the option of being aroused by it. It can be incredibly frustrating. Not to the point of rape of course, but still; ow.
Yeah, you do have the option to not be aroused by it. Or more to the point, you are not your fucking libido. If you can't control Mr. Happy, that's your problem.
And can any women reading this (however unlikely ) please explain to me the appeal of 'slutty' clothes? (As defined by those wonderful 'Slut Walks' I heard so much about earlier this year) I guess I just don't understand the appeal of revealing so much skin.
I'm not a woman, but SlutWalk is easy to explain. The women are working to reclaim the right to dress attractively and not be judged as a thing.
And no, the OP is not just talking about violent rape - it's talking about how, in popular culture, the idea that women are just things for male sexual relief is highly prevalent.
Then Feral shouldn't have made the meat of the first post a quote block dealing with statements from violent predators?
And no, the OP is not just talking about violent rape - it's talking about how, in popular culture, the idea that women are just things for male sexual relief is highly prevalent.
Then Feral shouldn't have made the meat of the first post a quote block dealing with statements from violent predators?
It actually just says they are convicted rapists. It is an interesting conclusion that because they have been convicted, their acts must have included violent assault.
Nononono. I don't get an erection. But I still feel an attraction, and...
No, you know what? Forget what I said. Forget it all. I'm not going to bother, i'm just mangling this whole thing. All I wanted to know was my initial question, ans thats it. But I shouldn't have started this a 6:30am on another insomnia episode
I'll get right into this tomorrow, if I get some decent sleep for once...
Here's the thing - violent sexual assault is only a very very tiny part of the problem. You know the whole ball of fail known as Herman Cain? Yeah, that's a much better demonstration with what the fuck is wrong.
The Cain issue also highlights why this is legitimately difficult to discuss, 'rape culture' or not: in that particular instance, I don't know whether to believe Cain or his 3 (I believe the number is still at 3? The woman who says Cain tried to force her to go into his apartment, the woman who says he attacked her in his car and the woman who says they had inappropriate contact, but will not further discuss it) accusers. I mean, can you tell me why I should automatically assume guilt on the part of the accused man, with no evidence presented to corroborate the allegations?
I have provided people in this forum with much better circumstantial evidence, for example, that Clinton raped a woman while he was governor - yet nobody believes that story, because most folks here are pro-democrat.
Nononono. I don't get an erection. But I still feel an attraction, and...
No, you know what? Forget what I said. Forget it all. I'm not going to bother, i'm just mangling this whole thing. All I wanted to know was my initial question, ans thats it. But I shouldn't have started this a 6:30am on another insomnia episode...
Here's the thing - you don't need a woman to complete you. And women aren't trophies or achievements. I know what society tells you, you should want the hottest woman out there. But society, especially American society, is in serious need of psychotherapy and probably the Worlds Largest Zoloft Pill.
Besides, here's an interesting fact - couples who have developed a true bond between them actually find their partner more attractive.
i am also curious why The Ender assumes that the convicted rapists in the OP are particularly violent rapists?
also, America's problem (for example) with assaults, murders, gun crime etc. is an enormous problem that is given plenty of weight - you could use the term "culture of violence" if you want, or you could talk about it in terms of poverty and class and economics and the other causes for violent crime and the way they support that culture. I don't see how bringing up non-sexual violence invalidates the idea that our culture implicitly excuses and occasionally reinforces the attitudes that lead to rape - not just the rare hyper-violent, anonymous assault, but also the much more common forms that are often referred to as "date rape" or similar.
Nononono. I don't get an erection. But I still feel an attraction, and...
No, you know what? Forget what I said. Forget it all. I'm not going to bother, i'm just mangling this whole thing. All I wanted to know was my initial question, ans thats it. But I shouldn't have started this a 6:30am on another insomnia episode...
Here's the thing - you don't need a woman to complete you. And women aren't trophies or achievements. I know what society tells you, you should want the hottest woman out there. But society, especially American society, is in serious need of psychotherapy and probably the Worlds Largest Zoloft Pill.
Besides, here's an interesting fact - couples who have developed a true bond between them actually find their partner more attractive.
Ok last post tonight (this is like civ5. One. more. poast.)
I don't want a fucking sex-doll! Where did I say anything like that? I would like a girlfriend to enjoy my time with. Sexual attraction isn't something I'm singling out for a partner either, but it compounds my loneliness when I see all these beautiful women who are unavailable but still nice looking.
Nononono. I don't get an erection. But I still feel an attraction, and...
No, you know what? Forget what I said. Forget it all. I'm not going to bother, i'm just mangling this whole thing. All I wanted to know was my initial question, ans thats it. But I shouldn't have started this a 6:30am on another insomnia episode
I'll get right into this tomorrow, if I get some decent sleep for once...
the key here is that if seeing an attractive woman dressed attractively makes you feel bad, that's your problem, because it comes from your own feelings of inadequacy, and any resentment you feel is completely unjustified.
that said, it's definitely not uncommon, and the important thing is to recognize and deal with it.
No, you're just a silly goose who bought into the cultural concept that somehow, men are not responsible for their sexuality.
I'm confused. Men are responsible for their sexuality but women aren't?
How you got that from that...
Man, what?
OK, I guess I should've quoted your whole post. Here's the other relevant part:
I'm not a woman, but SlutWalk is easy to explain. The women are working to reclaim the right to dress attractively and not be judged as a thing.
If in this new world it is the role of males to choke their sexual urges, is it reasonable that females have no role of not deliberately inflaming them? Why would only one gender be required to suppress their sexual urges to some extent?
How much more enlightened a view is this than that women bear the sole responsibility for not inflaming the urges of men?
Nononono. I don't get an erection. But I still feel an attraction, and...
No, you know what? Forget what I said. Forget it all. I'm not going to bother, i'm just mangling this whole thing. All I wanted to know was my initial question, ans thats it. But I shouldn't have started this a 6:30am on another insomnia episode
I'll get right into this tomorrow, if I get some decent sleep for once...
the key here is that if seeing an attractive woman dressed attractively makes you feel bad, that's your problem, because it comes from your own feelings of inadequacy, and any resentment you feel is completely unjustified.
that said, it's definitely not uncommon, and the important thing is to recognize and deal with it.
Oh for christ's sake.
I don't feel resentment. Just a mild bit of frustration. Nothing more, nothing more! I don't hate women, nor myself. I'm just a little lonely right now, it's been a rough year.
PLEASE get off my case now? I worded one or two things a little poorly and i'm sorry.
Now remember! Not a mysoginist!
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Apothe0sisHave you ever questioned the nature of your reality?Registered Userregular
No, you're just a silly goose who bought into the cultural concept that somehow, men are not responsible for their sexuality.
I'm confused. Men are responsible for their sexuality but women aren't?
How you got that from that...
Man, what?
OK, I guess I should've quoted your whole post. Here's the other relevant part:
I'm not a woman, but SlutWalk is easy to explain. The women are working to reclaim the right to dress attractively and not be judged as a thing.
If in this new world it is the role of males to choke their sexual urges, is it reasonable that females have no role of not deliberately inflaming them? Why would only one gender be required to suppress their sexual urges to some extent?
No, you're just a silly goose who bought into the cultural concept that somehow, men are not responsible for their sexuality.
I'm confused. Men are responsible for their sexuality but women aren't?
How you got that from that...
Man, what?
OK, I guess I should've quoted your whole post. Here's the other relevant part:
I'm not a woman, but SlutWalk is easy to explain. The women are working to reclaim the right to dress attractively and not be judged as a thing.
If in this new world it is the role of males to choke their sexual urges, is it reasonable that females have no role of not deliberately inflaming them? Why would only one gender be required to suppress their sexual urges to some extent?
It's amazing that you honestly think that's equal.
No, you're just a silly goose who bought into the cultural concept that somehow, men are not responsible for their sexuality.
I'm confused. Men are responsible for their sexuality but women aren't?
How you got that from that...
Man, what?
OK, I guess I should've quoted your whole post. Here's the other relevant part:
I'm not a woman, but SlutWalk is easy to explain. The women are working to reclaim the right to dress attractively and not be judged as a thing.
If in this new world it is the role of males to choke their sexual urges, is it reasonable that females have no role of not deliberately inflaming them? Why would only one gender be required to suppress their sexual urges to some extent?
i think this is a very silly interpretation
it isn't "the role of males to choke off their sexual urges". men are allowed and encouraged to have sexual urges, obviously.
the point is to say that it's not alright for men to act as though they can't control their actions, to blame rape on the way women dress, to say that a woman can't dress any way she pleases without provoking some kind of sexual action - to displace the responsibility for how a man acts onto the woman because they are being "provocative."
it isn't "the role of males to choke off their sexual urges". men are allowed and encouraged to have sexual urges, obviously.
the point is to say that it's not alright for men to act as though they can't control their actions, to blame rape on the way women dress, to say that a woman can't dress any way she pleases without provoking some kind of sexual action - to displace the responsibility for how a man acts onto the woman because they are being "provocative."
I totally agree its not all right for men to act as though they can't control their actions. I also think that its not accurate for women to act as though their actions cannot contribute to a weakening of that control.
No, you're just a silly goose who bought into the cultural concept that somehow, men are not responsible for their sexuality.
I'm confused. Men are responsible for their sexuality but women aren't?
How you got that from that...
Man, what?
OK, I guess I should've quoted your whole post. Here's the other relevant part:
I'm not a woman, but SlutWalk is easy to explain. The women are working to reclaim the right to dress attractively and not be judged as a thing.
If in this new world it is the role of males to choke their sexual urges, is it reasonable that females have no role of not deliberately inflaming them? Why would only one gender be required to suppress their sexual urges to some extent?
How much more enlightened a view is this than that women bear the sole responsibility for not inflaming the urges of men?
...seriously? If a woman wants to dress attractively, that's HER decision. And how you react to it is YOURS. She's not "deliberately inflaming" you, and to think so is incredibly goosey.
it isn't "the role of males to choke off their sexual urges". men are allowed and encouraged to have sexual urges, obviously.
the point is to say that it's not alright for men to act as though they can't control their actions, to blame rape on the way women dress, to say that a woman can't dress any way she pleases without provoking some kind of sexual action - to displace the responsibility for how a man acts onto the woman because they are being "provocative."
I totally agree its not all right for men to act as though they can't control their actions. I also think that its not accurate for women to act as though their actions cannot contribute to a weakening of that control.
If that weakens your control, that's a failing on YOUR PART. Stop making excuses for your shortcomings.
Posts
They still have brains with preserved functions shared by the entire human population. Even serial killers look the same as regular people because personal hygiene and compulsive murder aren't correlated characteristics. You shouldn't be surprised that it's hard to tell the difference between rapists and non-rapists because people don't have a counter of "Rapes I have performed:" on top of their heads, which is the only real definition that matters.
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
I wonder why Roman Polanski fled America, then?
His victim claims she was not violently attacked, and yet the state wanted to punish him to the full extent of the the law (and then some - they wanted to throw him into the same prison Manson currently resides in, and the two have something of a history).
There's a difference between "I don't want to report this robbery because it will be annoying" and "I don't want to report this rape because I'm afraid that no one will believe me, my rapist will probably go free and hurt me again to teach me a lesson, my reputation will be dragged through the mud, I'll be dehumanized and called a slut and told that I deserved it, and I'll be forced to constantly relive and scrutinize one of the most horrific and traumatic experiences of my life."
There's a difference between "You deserved to be robbed because you were walking alone at night with a hundred dollars in your pocket" and "You deserved to be raped because you were dressed like a skank and probably enjoyed it."
You mean the paedophilia charges?
Again, a different circumstance to a regular rape of an adult capable of consent or non-consent. There is no possibility to `excuse' it.
Well then this one scenario proves the rule!
-.-
...I know a lot of guys that enjoy wearing suits & ties (I'm not a big fan myself, though I do like a blazer/vest combination). Why? Because it's attractive, and they like looking attractive.
I won't speak for a woman, but my guess would be that they also enjoy looking attractive.
Nobody should have to justify why they chose to look sexy (or why they chose not to).
Technically, the phrase "exception that proves the rule" is talking about an example that goers against it, that is testing, or "proving" it.
However I agree that the way we perceive rape as a whole is plenty screwed up.
That's not why people choose not to report muggings or robberies, and frankly that's a pretty insulting & disgusting suggestion. There's a definite fear of reprisal (at least, in downtown cities there is), and while admittedly not a real sense that anyone will not believe you because of the volume of evidence at your disposal, your sense of self & confidence is most definitely impacted.
And you do think I deserved to be robbed, then, because I happened to walking through a park at night (I was working late, doing door to door canvassing, and my phone was out, which is what ultimately drew my attackers. I didn't have any cash on me at all - not that the thugs who jumped me would've known one way or another)?
Here's the thing - violent sexual assault is only a very very tiny part of the problem. You know the whole ball of fail known as Herman Cain? Yeah, that's a much better demonstration with what the fuck is wrong.
And no, the OP is not just talking about violent rape - it's talking about how, in popular culture, the idea that women are just things for male sexual relief is highly prevalent.
Ditto on the ties, if not the suits.
I wasn't looking for justification, I honestly don't consider myself important enough in anyone's life to expect that, just trying to understand; which your answer helps so thanks.
But I guess I just feel like it's a shame that women feeling good about themselves has the effect of making people like me feel like shit. But eh, guess it can't be helped.
Why does it make you feel like shit. I see attractive women all the time and I don't really understand your problem.
Then Feral shouldn't have made the meat of the first post a quote block dealing with statements from violent predators?
Yeah, you do have the option to not be aroused by it. Or more to the point, you are not your fucking libido. If you can't control Mr. Happy, that's your problem.
I'm not a woman, but SlutWalk is easy to explain. The women are working to reclaim the right to dress attractively and not be judged as a thing.
No, you're just a silly goose who bought into the cultural concept that somehow, men are not responsible for their sexuality.
Protip: You are in control of your trouser snake. Not the other way around.
It's not his fault you misunderstood.
No, you know what? Forget what I said. Forget it all. I'm not going to bother, i'm just mangling this whole thing. All I wanted to know was my initial question, ans thats it. But I shouldn't have started this a 6:30am on another insomnia episode
I'll get right into this tomorrow, if I get some decent sleep for once...
...
Bot men and women are responsible for their own sexuality. Which means if you see an attractive woman and it arouses you, it's your fucking problem.
Man, what?
The Cain issue also highlights why this is legitimately difficult to discuss, 'rape culture' or not: in that particular instance, I don't know whether to believe Cain or his 3 (I believe the number is still at 3? The woman who says Cain tried to force her to go into his apartment, the woman who says he attacked her in his car and the woman who says they had inappropriate contact, but will not further discuss it) accusers. I mean, can you tell me why I should automatically assume guilt on the part of the accused man, with no evidence presented to corroborate the allegations?
I have provided people in this forum with much better circumstantial evidence, for example, that Clinton raped a woman while he was governor - yet nobody believes that story, because most folks here are pro-democrat.
Here's the thing - you don't need a woman to complete you. And women aren't trophies or achievements. I know what society tells you, you should want the hottest woman out there. But society, especially American society, is in serious need of psychotherapy and probably the Worlds Largest Zoloft Pill.
Besides, here's an interesting fact - couples who have developed a true bond between them actually find their partner more attractive.
What does this have to do with how a woman is dressed? A woman is not necessarily more attractive because she is wearing a miniskirt.
also, America's problem (for example) with assaults, murders, gun crime etc. is an enormous problem that is given plenty of weight - you could use the term "culture of violence" if you want, or you could talk about it in terms of poverty and class and economics and the other causes for violent crime and the way they support that culture. I don't see how bringing up non-sexual violence invalidates the idea that our culture implicitly excuses and occasionally reinforces the attitudes that lead to rape - not just the rare hyper-violent, anonymous assault, but also the much more common forms that are often referred to as "date rape" or similar.
Ok last post tonight (this is like civ5. One. more. poast.)
I don't want a fucking sex-doll! Where did I say anything like that? I would like a girlfriend to enjoy my time with. Sexual attraction isn't something I'm singling out for a partner either, but it compounds my loneliness when I see all these beautiful women who are unavailable but still nice looking.
Excuse the fuck out of me for feeling lonely.
Goodnight...
the key here is that if seeing an attractive woman dressed attractively makes you feel bad, that's your problem, because it comes from your own feelings of inadequacy, and any resentment you feel is completely unjustified.
that said, it's definitely not uncommon, and the important thing is to recognize and deal with it.
How much more enlightened a view is this than that women bear the sole responsibility for not inflaming the urges of men?
Oh for christ's sake.
I don't feel resentment. Just a mild bit of frustration. Nothing more, nothing more! I don't hate women, nor myself. I'm just a little lonely right now, it's been a rough year.
PLEASE get off my case now? I worded one or two things a little poorly and i'm sorry.
What do you mean "choke their sexual urges."?
i think this is a very silly interpretation
it isn't "the role of males to choke off their sexual urges". men are allowed and encouraged to have sexual urges, obviously.
the point is to say that it's not alright for men to act as though they can't control their actions, to blame rape on the way women dress, to say that a woman can't dress any way she pleases without provoking some kind of sexual action - to displace the responsibility for how a man acts onto the woman because they are being "provocative."
It's amazing that you think Men raping women is equivalent to Women wearing attractive clothing
...seriously? If a woman wants to dress attractively, that's HER decision. And how you react to it is YOURS. She's not "deliberately inflaming" you, and to think so is incredibly goosey.
If that weakens your control, that's a failing on YOUR PART. Stop making excuses for your shortcomings.