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When do you leave a job?
darqness
KCMORegistered User regular
KCMORegistered User regular
Background: I've worked for a company for the past 11 years starting from the bottom as a store clerk to managing the entire business for the past five years. I've always exceede my goals and received positive reviews with a salary increase for those past 5 years.
Recently my boss took a 2 week vacation which he just arrived from this Monday. While he was gone two items were mistakenly listed by his newly hired son-in-law for ridiculously low prices (a few dollars) and both sold this afternoon on eBay. It was completely my fault for not reviewing them before he launched them and I explained that all of this should ONLY be on me. He then started swearing and literally threw everything off of his desk onto the ground, broke a walking stick, threw his chair, and threw a stapler in my direction which landed at my feet after stepping back. The straw that broke the camel's back however was when he then started calling me "assh*le, idiot, motherf*cker, etc. every name in the book. I promptly went into my office, grabbed my personal belongings, walked out the door and drove home.
On the drive home he called several times and I picked up the fourth time. He explained that he was mad, that he had a right to be mad, and then said if I were to quite he would be out thousands of dollars which he just put down on a vacation home, and several more because of future vacations that he had already planned that he now couldn't take if I were to leave. He ended that statement by saying all of that would be on me. I told him he had every right to be mad, but I won't be abused or insulted like that, which he then tried to equate my mistake that cost him thousands to him taking away my house. I told him I needed to take the day and we could discuss this tomorrow when I come in, and if he couldn't give me that then I would be quitting.
Come to find out (through his son-in-law and daughter) neither of these items had been shipped yet, and he's already successfully cancelled one of them with no repercussions.
Right now I've been preparing my resume along with hitting job search sites as well. I've worked this job from when I was 15 to 26 and it's been the only job I've had. It has paid well so far, however where do I draw the line at? No amount of money is worth that kind of abuse and my wife agrees. My plan is to cool down and tomorrow go in with an ultimatum that I will return, however THIS cannot happen again. No doubt I made a mistake, however if that is how it's going to be handled then I cannot stick around.
Advice?
Recently my boss took a 2 week vacation which he just arrived from this Monday. While he was gone two items were mistakenly listed by his newly hired son-in-law for ridiculously low prices (a few dollars) and both sold this afternoon on eBay. It was completely my fault for not reviewing them before he launched them and I explained that all of this should ONLY be on me. He then started swearing and literally threw everything off of his desk onto the ground, broke a walking stick, threw his chair, and threw a stapler in my direction which landed at my feet after stepping back. The straw that broke the camel's back however was when he then started calling me "assh*le, idiot, motherf*cker, etc. every name in the book. I promptly went into my office, grabbed my personal belongings, walked out the door and drove home.
On the drive home he called several times and I picked up the fourth time. He explained that he was mad, that he had a right to be mad, and then said if I were to quite he would be out thousands of dollars which he just put down on a vacation home, and several more because of future vacations that he had already planned that he now couldn't take if I were to leave. He ended that statement by saying all of that would be on me. I told him he had every right to be mad, but I won't be abused or insulted like that, which he then tried to equate my mistake that cost him thousands to him taking away my house. I told him I needed to take the day and we could discuss this tomorrow when I come in, and if he couldn't give me that then I would be quitting.
Come to find out (through his son-in-law and daughter) neither of these items had been shipped yet, and he's already successfully cancelled one of them with no repercussions.
Right now I've been preparing my resume along with hitting job search sites as well. I've worked this job from when I was 15 to 26 and it's been the only job I've had. It has paid well so far, however where do I draw the line at? No amount of money is worth that kind of abuse and my wife agrees. My plan is to cool down and tomorrow go in with an ultimatum that I will return, however THIS cannot happen again. No doubt I made a mistake, however if that is how it's going to be handled then I cannot stick around.
Advice?
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Don't tell your boss squat about your job search. Don't tell your coworkers. Don't tell anyone who might talk to a coworker. Don't post stuff up on Facebook. Only talk to family, close non-work friends, recruiters, and potential new employers as you send them your resume.
Get that new job first.
And keep looking for other opportunities on the side.
Okay, that said, you're absolutely right, you did not deserve that and no one deserves to be treated like that. Return to work, issue the ultimatum (if you're willing to), and keep your head down and triple check your work.
Prepare your resume, start looking for a new job. Decide from that point on if you'd like to take it or stay where you are. Don't quit until you have another job. That's the biggest advice.
If you're willing to be extra assholey, you may want to refer back to the guilt trips (possibly blackmail?) as not very good ways to get someone on your side after you act like a jerk to them. You'll probably burn your bridge if you use that line, but hey, that's up to you man.
Just remember, you were not in the wrong here, you deserve to be treated with respect, and in some jurisdictions, that's assault.
Sure, you should have caught it. Of course, if it was as gross a misprice as you say the guy never, ever, should have let it happen in the first place. While saying you are completely to blame is a stand up thing I wouldn't suggest believing it.
Second, it really comes down to this question "Does my employer think it's appropriate to abuse me?" and I'd add a secondary bonus question of "If you stay, what does your advancement path look like?" From what you said the answers strongly look like "Yes" and "Nothing."
Have your talk, stress the inappropriateness of the way he treated you and see where it goes. If you get that same self-entitled attitude I would suggest looking for another job or get comfortable being this guys indentured servant until such time as son in law is given the business and placed over you. Then maybe if you're lucky you can be his indentured servant.
It's great they gave you the opportunity to advance up the ranks and (from me) it'd buy some loyalty. Being abused like that would cause the loyalty to evaporate if it wasn't followed by an acknowledgement that it was wrong.
But boy does it feel good.
don't let anything he said to you (like if you quit he will not get a vacation) influence you to stay
That said, from a rational standpoint, I concur with DevoutlyApathetic and DivideByZero.
To be perfectly honest, if it was just one incident of yelling and swearing I'd be tempted to put it on a bad day, him coming home from vacation to find his dog dead, something. But he threw something at you. It got physical. Then he called to tell you it was your fault but please don't leave and if you leave everything bad that happens because he yelled and threw things will be your fault too. Fuck that with a sideways 2x4.
At any rate, I wouldn't tolerate that sort of behavior from anyone, let alone someone in a position of authority over me. I would continue to take their money while looking for a different place to give me money, however.
The breaking point for me isn't that somebody got angry, it'd be when they are no longer angry and don't admit they were acting inappropriately. That is a very bad sign to me.
That the guy seems to be selfish to the point of being unable to persuade somebody doesn't help matters long term.
Normally I'd call that leverage and advise you to run with it, but I'll just echo Bowen here. Keep your head down and triple check your work. It's entirely possible that your boss is going to realize that his behavior may utterly fuck him over in the near term and apologize tomorrow, but then again he might just dig in his heels and try to see how far you'll bend. Find another job while he's redecorating his office and then bounce at the earliest opportunity. Bonus points if he tries to counter-offer you and you politely decline.
There's no doubt in my mind that he won't fire me. It was a large mistake that was fixed without repercussion. I've also been in this position for so long that really he wouldn't know how some things work if it came down to just him running the place. I'm thinking of taking everyone's advice and keeping the job while looking fervently for others. As @bowen said though, I've now challenged the status quo and with his personality I'm sure he'll become edgy and this will amplify any other mistakes made. My biggest obstacle is if I go in and tell him that what he did was inappropriate and he shows no sign of remorse or acknowledgment that what he did was wrong. THAT would be when I would think I have to leave, or do I? Frankly I wish he would fire me so I could claim unemployment.
In my first job I worked, the guy who owned the place had a very short temper and would lose it quite often. It wasn't really a surprise whenever it happened. In your case, you've know this dude for at least 11 years.
What the hell? Did he have a bipolar episode out of nowhere? Hasn't anyone screwed something up before?
And yes, definitely line up another job and then high-tail it out of there. If you take it once, he'll do it again, especially since he's not owning up to how inappropriate his behavior was.
"You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should."
I would've left a long time ago if I wasn't planning on going back to school. Everything is all set and I just need to find a place to live near campus before I give notice and see what happens.
I'd leave as soon as you can.
I'd like to see some of you guys offer tips on how to manage job hunting while working at another job where you may not have the privacy to answer phone calls or where the business is so small that you're chastised for taking time off or sick days. If darqness's situation is as similar to mine as it sounds, it could be very difficult to take calls and set interviews when you're expected to have nearly perfect attendance and you're always on call.
And of course, if you give notice you can expect to be walked right out the door immediately.
It's not complicated really. Don't give out your work number, only your cell phone as a contact. Return voicemails on your lunchbreak; outside the building if you can't get any privacy. Find someone there that you can trust and put them down as your employment reference. And although it really shouldn't have to be said:
Don't use your work email in a job search
Don't browse job sites from your work computer
Don't give out your work phone
If it's the kind of place that gives you shit for taking PTO, then that's one more reason to GTFO sooner rather than later.
I switched jobs and went on multiple interviews while I was working at a two-room office with seven employees, and my boss didn't have a clue until I gave my notice. Everything was conducted by email from home, and when I went on interviews during work hours I lied about it right to her face and gave precisely zero fucks. Oh noes my car had a massive puddle of oil under it in the driveway this morning, sorry I'm going to be late!
Like already said, your cellphone and personal email are the only forms of communication you should use. Employers likely won't be asking for full day interviews or anything overly complicated. Slowly start taking more and more lunches where you either go out to eat, take walks, whatever you can do to get out the office. That way, when you do start needing to take calls, it is part of an accepted pattern that you are leaving for lunch.
On the job hunting side while I may have a lot of experience, unfortunately I can't use this job as a reference and seeing as how it's been my only job I would think that might be frowned upon, or only grant me access to low level jobs that won't pay the bills. In laymen terms I could very well be SOL.
"I'm not going to ask for an apology, and I'm not going to ask you to admit anything. What I will say is that if this ever happens again, I cannot guarantee that I will stick around."
That will at least let him know with a formal warning that this bullshit won't fly, and it will at least let me gauge what he's thinking with his response or reaction. Meanwhile I'll be sending out resumes.
My place offers no PTO at all, no paid sick days, and we work 6 full, 9-hour days each week. Once every month or two, we do a full 7 day week.
It's also in a pretty remote township, so driving distance would make it difficult to get to and from an interview on a lunch.
Is there a point where it's just a better decision to quit first? As you could imagine, we've had a revolving door of people, and many of them have left because they weren't able to take interviews.
Gussy up your resume with every single skill you have, even minor stuff.
Are there other people there you can use as references? Potentially outside consultants?
What is your PTO like? Do you have full weekends?
What is your overall skillset like? If you were reviewing pricing spreadsheets, I'm betting there's a lot you have that hasn't been stated here yet.
I get weekends off and just earned 2 weeks vacation. Basically I've managed everything that requires supervision with the business. From shipping and receiving, to pricing products correctly so that we maximize profit, to hiring and firing. This week I'll be taking notes on absolutely everything I do so that I can accurately list my most important skills.
I can sympathize with this. Since we're an internet business we bought a warehouse that was big and cheap which means it's 45 minutes South of the city.
After 11 fucking years of exemplary service.
This owner guy has some sort of serious problem, dude. I'm not a mental health professional so I'm not going to start suggesting things that could be wrong, but there definitely is something wrong in there somewhere.
He tried to guilt you that he would lose vacations and the relevant deposits if he had to replace you? What world is he living in that that is even relevant to what happened, and even if it was, why on Earth would you give a shit?
That's the kind of thing a spoilt toddler does when it throws a tantrum, not a grown successful businessman when an employee doesn't catch another employees mistake.
I've known he was somewhat unstable in the way he's acted on a few occasions in the past, however I told myself if it was ever directed at me in a personal attack that I would draw the line there.
According to his daughter both she and her mother told him he was an idiot for overreacting and he in turn cussed them out as well.
This only relayed to me that he was grasping and feeling desperate; thinking that he could guilt me into coming back. This has just been a revelation for me and while I've still got a job I'm going to find another that pays just as well or slightly less with an HR department I could report instances like this to.
Jesus. Do they pay you in company scrip too, or is it straight-up sharecropping? That sounds completely awful, and from your description it seems like they are used to maintaining a tremendous churn of employees. In which case fuck them, there's no point trying to hide the fact that you're looking for work elsewhere; they likely suspect you already are since everybody probably is. So unless you're living paycheck to paycheck, line up an interview and take the day. They'll dock you but it'll be worth it once you get the hell out of there.
Just don't quit first. Never quit first. Make them fire you. By which I mean, do your job, and do it well, don't give them an excuse to fire you with cause, but don't give them the satisfaction of quitting. If they want you gone they're going to have to pay Unemployment.
Tell him that shit was unacceptable, yeah. Expedite your job search because fuck this place. But in between those two steps ask him how much those vacations are worth to him. Ask that the value he assigns them be added to your regularly scheduled paycheck. Then after racking sweet vacation blackmail money quit in blaze of glory for your newly secured job.
I wouldn't worry too much about references. You've been there long enough it's a reference into itself.
Even in most jurisdictions this is not enough to prevent unemployment unless it's a gross mistake, like, assaulting someone.
Still, I'm actively job searching because he has a history of this and I'm not waiting for him to pull this again. Seriously, screw this place.
He really said it's your fault you made him angry?
Wow.
This guy isn't like 3, right?
I would get on that job search pronto.
I also got a hair trim and shaved hoping that he would notice and maybe interpret that as a sign. He did.
Instead, spin that you have progressed as high as you can go in your current job, and need new challenges and responsibilities, which is quite true. To give this the ring of truth, apply for jobs that are better than your current one. If you apply for jobs that are just a move sideways, employers may be suspicious. As a bonus, this means you should come out of this mess with a better job.
Pretty much this. You wouldn't accept this treatment from someone you love, let alone from someone who merely givesyou a paycheck.
I wonder what kind of response that would bring.
"Enjoy your holiday!"
I hit agree on this but mostly for the second part. I've been fired twice in two years for incredibly bullshit highly technical (as in job related information security) reasons and I'm generally pretty upfront about it and have gotten almost entirely positive responses back. I'm sure some people that would have followed up initially don't, but I figure that shit's probably gonna come up sooner or later and better to get in front of it and explain what happened than waste everyone's time if that's a dealbreaker. I'm currently interviewing with two of the biggest technology companies in the world and it hasn't shaken either of them yet.
I'm not saying go out of your way to be all "YEAH FUCK THIS PLACE/THAT GUY." in an interview but I don't see any harm in presenting a brief explanation of what went down. People leaving jobs because of terrible management is not uncommon.
On the other hand I'll readily admit my situation is a little bit unique, I got a gigantic raise last time this happened and it's looking like I'll be doubling if not tripling what I was making two years ago when I find a new position this time. This is probably not true for all industries.
S'what I'm saying. Blackmail the fucker.