I get the stalemate issue, and when I started the game I thought that's what happened to. What breaks it at high level play, besides a 45 minute time limit, is recognizing when to attack and when to defend. For example, if your opponent swings his entire army in to take one province, or has to because he can't split his attack, and you can take two of his provinces with the defenders he gets; that ends games. Knowing that you can't win a fight (e.g. they have more actions on the field than you can deal with in your hand), don't defend and take the time to build up your army and hand.
One issue that exists even at high level play is that decks that go second against military Crab are pretty much always on the back foot. Crab have really strong and well-costed personalities backed up by pretty good strongholds. I would recommend The Shadow's Lair as the stronghold to run against Crab, as it can blow out a lot of attacks (and it can blow out defenders in certain cases too!).
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NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
Thorne, spoiler this if you need to, what's up with Spider Clan narrative-wise?
I know that they were originally a kinda of subtle "In" by the Shadowlands to establish legitimacy in the Empire, but did they recently break from Daigotsu or is it still "Upper management knows, troopers don't" type deal?
The Spider Clan was originally comprised of the Lost from the City of the Lost and several ronin. Daigotsu's plan was to, instead of using the Shadowlands to crush the Empire, to use the Empire's structures to infiltrate and eventually take it over. There's some other motivations there, like Daigotsu was pissed that Fu Leng wasn't getting his due as a kami and he wanted his son to rule over a thriving empire and not a blasted wasteland.
Originally, the Spider appeared much like Toturi's Army to outside observers; ronin and monks who would sweep in to save villages. They competed in the Race for the Throne seeking legitimacy, but when Kitsuki Iweko ascended the true nature of the Spider was revealed to her. The Imperial Legions burned down the Shadowlands Marsh of the Shinomen, killing several Spider leaders and obliterating their strongholds there and the Spider were known by most to be tainted at that point.
Daigotsu himself, however, lived on through the purge and restructured the Spider to better accommodate the infiltration goal. Untainted monks, members of the Order of the Spider, were sent out to aid people throughout Rokugan and teach the various virtues of Shourido. Tainted samurai swore fealty to Daigotsu himself, all the while Daigotsu took great pains to keep his son Kanpeki free of the Shadowlands Taint. Their story arc through Celestial Edition was rebuilding their power and restructuring their Clan. Up until the Goddesses series, that is.
Goddesses was the climax of Celestial Edition and depicted the Empire's struggles against the hordes of Kali-Ma. A group of Great Clan samurai, traveling with a mysterious monk known as Furumaro, had been guarding the Black Scroll that contained the essence of Kali-Ma. As Kali-Ma attacked near them, the monk revealed himself to be Fu Leng, opening the Black Scroll and taking Kali-Ma's essence into himself in order to regain godlike powers and battle the gaijin Destroyer. As Fu Leng entered the battle in dragon form (as depicted in the art of The Deciding Moment), the legions of the Spider appeared. The Imperial Legions, Crab Clan, Lion Clan, and Unicorn Clan armies that had been fighting the Destroyers didn't know whom to fight. As that happened, Daigotsu appeared in front of the Empress Iweko seeking to have his Clan recognized in order to give them leave to fight the armies of Kali-Ma. Iweko, divine Empress of Rokugan, agreed on one condition: the Spider would become a Great Clan only if their lord Daigotsu committed seppukku for his many crimes against the Empire. Daigotsu, knowing his son's future was on the line, agreed to the deal.
As that went down, Shahai (Daigotsu's wife and mother of Kanpeki) found the Black Scroll and the bewildered samurai protecting it. She gathered the Taint and magic in the area, using the souls of some of the samurai involved, intending to feed it to Fu Leng who was struggling against Kali-Ma. Hiruma Akio, the Crab member of the group, crushed Shahai's skull with a tetsubo before the ritual was completed, and Fu Leng was killed by Kali-Ma. At the same time, Daigotsu finished his seppukku.
Kali-Ma roaring in triumph, the gaijin god was surprised when a Festering Pit opened near her. An enormous, humanlike figure emerged from it; the new Dark Lord of the Shadowlands. Daigotsu had assumed control of Jigoku, stripping Kali-Ma of power, and drug her into the depths of Jigoku. With Kali-Ma defeated, the Spider aided the Imperials and Clan armies in destroying her army and routing them from Rokugan. Daigotsu remained to renegotiate the deal with the Empress. The Spider would live, and Kanpeki's son would be raised alongside Iweko's own heirs. In fact, Iweko's second son would be raised among the Spider Clan and learn their ways. In exchange, Daigotsu removed the Shadowlands Taint. It would no longer affect humans unwillingly, nor would it be spread by Shadowlands creatures though those who wished its power could call on it still. Finally, with the gaijin hordes defeated and the Clans wondering what would happen next, Iweko spoke to the assembled legions one phrase. When asked what the Spider would do, she answered "Go forth, and conquer in my name."
Fast forward 25 years. Tainted samurai are allowed to swear fealty to the Spider Clan. The Spider, alongside the Mantis, are conquering the wilds of the former Ivory Kingdoms. The Spider in particular are sent into the most dangerous places, the unexplored places, and spend resources fighting the remnants of the Cult of Rumahl which seek the resurrection of Kali-Ma. Daigotsu Kanpeki, son of the Dark Lord, now leads the Spider Clan and still bears no Taint. The Susumu family comprises the Spider courtiers, while untainted members of the Spider and the monk orders are allowed in Rokugan.
Note that Spider infiltration of other clans still continues, and the Spider have all but claimed the Sparrow Clan. They even got Kyuden Suzume as a stronghold. Infiltrators like Yoritomo Aranai are still present in other clans as well.
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NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
Target an enemy card without attachments, or an enemy unit, with a lower total Gold Cost than Hiromi's unit: Hiromi strikes with the power of Thunder. Destroy the target.
I see your Kanpeki and raise you a Mantis Clan Champion.
I've tried playing this more and I'm just not having any fun. The combat is so incredibly complicated. Every fucking guy has 20 activated abilities in combat. Then every player has 8 zero gold combat tricks on top of that. Its such a fucking mess. I just don't understand how this game is popular. Every ability is written in a horrible fashion. Examples:
"Before the first straightening each battle of a Personality whose enemy leader is a Crab Clan player: Negate that straightening"
"After the first time each phase another player's action targets Bofana: If the action was not performed by a card with (current) Force equal to or higher than Bofana's base Force, the player discards a card."
Why do I need a law degree to understand what a card does? Are there any removal spells, board wipes, or counterspells? I don't understand how you can catch up in this game? Besides combat, the rest of the game is incredibly uninteractive. Also, these intro products are some of the worst products I've ever seen. The Learn to Play set has you go through a combat step that goes through 20+ battle abilities, spells, and tactics during ONE combat step. What kind of fucking intro product is this??? Does every guy in the intro product need 20 battle abilities? LOL, what happened to intro products that have mostly vanilla guys, and the more complicated stuff on your uncommons and rare bombs? If this product was designed to ease people into the game then its a complete failure.
I'm pissed because this game seemed really cool initially, even though I didn't get it. Except, the more I try to get it the less fun it is becoming.
Good points @Mugaaz and the answer is that, paradoxically, the starters are not fantastic at teaching the game. When I started the game in Celestial Edition, for example, they didn't even come with rulebooks! The truism when it comes to L5R is that the best way to learn L5R is to have someone who already knows the game teach you.
It sounds like what you're looking for is the Honor and Treachery learn to play set. It consists of two pre-made decks, the Scorpion and the Phoenix, and is built with lots of blank guys and simple effects. They cut out, IIRC, traits and reactions entirely to make it easier to understand.
There are counterspells, but they don't operate like Magic does. They are Reactions with specific triggers, like Yasuki Ikke and Inexorable. There are also delay effects like the Halls of the Forgotten which I'm sure you're familiar with. There are no board wipe abilities currently, but there are tons and tons of removal cards. Looming Danger is just the most recent in an arc full of cards that are capable of killing units.
Honestly, when I was faced with the wall of the L5R rules, I knew I was interested enough in the game to learn them. I went straight to reading the L5R Rules Wiki until I understood complexities of timing, targeting, and whatnot. Magic loads all of its complexity onto cards, L5R loads its complexity into the rules. Once you understand the admittedly high wall, the game is fairly intuitive in how it works.
In Ivory Edition, the upcoming edition, they are simplifying card text a lot. So, instead of something like War Encampment you get Colonial Temple. Instead of a dude like Hida Yamadera you'll get Hiruma Nikaru XP2. The aim is, of course, to fix the problem that you seem to be running into without removing the complexity that many L5R players enjoy.
The origins of the Mad Dragon P'an Ku are (kind of, sort of) explained in this week's fiction The Shape of a Soul. Also, the Phoenix are really handy when you need to exposit some information.
I had a very similar experience to Mugaaz, several years ago. My friends and I all picked up some starter packs, and I had some ancient cards from back in the day.
Whenever we got to combat, we kind of stumbled around trying to figure out WTF was going on. I think the last time we played was when it seemed like my Crane champion could, at any time, just duel and murder anyone on the board, effectively rendering everyone else's army completely useless.
Were we doing it wrong? Probably absolutely. But we couldn't figure out WHAT we were doing wrong, and it turned into a total buzzkill.
That being said, the lore can be a lot of fun, and the fact that the tournaments influence the game's design and history is just a fantastic idea. I've also always wanted to run an L5R RPG campaign.
I had a very similar experience to Mugaaz, several years ago. My friends and I all picked up some starter packs, and I had some ancient cards from back in the day.
Whenever we got to combat, we kind of stumbled around trying to figure out WTF was going on. I think the last time we played was when it seemed like my Crane champion could, at any time, just duel and murder anyone on the board, effectively rendering everyone else's army completely useless.
Were we doing it wrong? Probably absolutely. But we couldn't figure out WHAT we were doing wrong, and it turned into a total buzzkill.
That being said, the lore can be a lot of fun, and the fact that the tournaments influence the game's design and history is just a fantastic idea. I've also always wanted to run an L5R RPG campaign.
I get what you're saying there. Hrmm, might it be better if I posted the sort of typical stumbling points I see new players have? Sort of an L5R FAQ, if you will.
The game takes time to learn, especially certain ins and outs (I just learned that reprint personalities were allowed in on Legacy format and not the other just a couple days ago ), but it really is worth the effort.
Did it still have that stupid samurai only restriction that crippled it in Diamond? I mean, yeah, I managed to make a strong finish with it but that's cause I built that deck the night before Kotei specifically to beat the meta.
I had a very similar experience to Mugaaz, several years ago. My friends and I all picked up some starter packs, and I had some ancient cards from back in the day.
Whenever we got to combat, we kind of stumbled around trying to figure out WTF was going on. I think the last time we played was when it seemed like my Crane champion could, at any time, just duel and murder anyone on the board, effectively rendering everyone else's army completely useless.
Were we doing it wrong? Probably absolutely. But we couldn't figure out WHAT we were doing wrong, and it turned into a total buzzkill.
That being said, the lore can be a lot of fun, and the fact that the tournaments influence the game's design and history is just a fantastic idea. I've also always wanted to run an L5R RPG campaign.
I get what you're saying there. Hrmm, might it be better if I posted the sort of typical stumbling points I see new players have? Sort of an L5R FAQ, if you will.
The game takes time to learn, especially certain ins and outs (I just learned that reprint personalities were allowed in on Legacy format and not the other just a couple days ago ), but it really is worth the effort.
I don't mind a game being complex, but why is the complexity pushed into the ability to understand how to play at a basic level? It should be loaded into picking the best lines, determining the best play, determining the highest EV choice. It should not be "I can't understand what this guy's ability does?"
Then there is some stuff I just don't fucking understand period. Why are 80%+ of the spells and tactics zero gold? That makes the game strategically LESS complex, while making the process of analyzing basic combat insanely more complex! Why does the winner of combat not lose any units? What good purpose can that serve? Everytime I enter combat I feel like the entire game is on the line and even if its turn 3 if I get into combat the winner will be decided right there.
Other random things that I find stupid -
Multiple cards with "Once per turn" effects that have no way to visually indicate they've been used. They don't bow, they don't get a token, nothing.
WAY WAY WAY too many activated abilities during combat. Why?????? This makes combat impossible to figure out. There are so many way to give cards unique abilities without making them activated.
Little to no way to interact with opponents during the event, action, or dynasty phase. Where are the non combat step cards with effects like Doom Blade, Flame Slash, Oblivion Ring, and Cancel in MTG?
Things I really like -
Two deck system
The "feel" of building up my economy
The "feel" of the political cards and dueling give the feeling of each game having a narrative
The cool art, characters, setting, and lore
The personality / unit system
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NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
edited June 2013
It might be a good idea to have an outline of the turn order.
Phases, and then available actions during those phases.
During combat, which actions occur first; naval, range, magic, abilities.
As well as any "open rules". (Did they change that rule that if the Imperial Favor was free, any personality could via for it?)
@Nocren Sort of. Lobbying can now only be done by the player with the highest honor, and in order to Lobby they have to bow an honorable personality with one or more honor.
Dragon got shut out in Detroit, and were only able to pick up three votes in the Philippines.... which wasn't enough to close the five point gap that Aranai had on her, and she amazingly survived the weekend.
We have ourselves a Mantis Warlord, kids.
BOOSH!
PMAvers on
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
I miss my introverted little country...
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
So I went on a little mini-wikiwalk on L5R yesterday, and I'm actually sorry I missed most of the Daigotsu era; a lot of that looks like it was a lot of fun. May have to see if there's any kind of scene in the NYC area. You'd think there would be, but we lost our big M:tG locale years ago and the whole city's never quite gelled since. Brooklyn, I hear, has some stuff going on, but I'm not at all near them.
The Four Winds era (AKA Gold Edition, AKA the introduction of Daigotsu up through his first death) is considered one of the game's greatest storylines so far. I'm also partial to The Khan's March, the opening storyline of Samurai Edition, where Unicorn Clan Champion and Khan Moto Chagatai attempted conquest of the Empire using all the strength of the Unicorn. Along the way, he killed or took out no less than three Lion Clan Champions, laid waste to much of the Empire, and was ultimately undone in a very Unicorn fashion.
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NocrenLt Futz, Back in ActionNorth CarolinaRegistered Userregular
Every time I read a l5r topic, I am just reminded of how much I despise the story after the introduction of the spider "clan". And also railroady do this or your character commits seppuku in shame, but that is just bad GMing and can be avoided.
I mean, I get the Spider Clan as a narrative conceit. There's only so many "Shadowlands RAR!" plots you can do and it's very easy to overuse their big bads (see: Iuchiban, Daigotsu, the Oni Lords). The Spider Clan makes for a more interesting conflict on a lot of levels' by granting these Lost some societal standing and responsibilities you shackle them but at the same time make it so every clan, not just the Crab, has to deal with them. Could it have been handled a lot better? Absolutely, and Daigotsu smacked far too much of a self insert at points in his story arc. However, in Emperor, they actually present a somewhat compelling story point.
As to the seppuku thing, yeah find another GM. Whomever would do that to their players shouldn't be running L5R.
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AuralynxDarkness is a perspectiveWatching the ego workRegistered Userregular
Every time I read a l5r topic, I am just reminded of how much I despise the story after the introduction of the spider "clan". And also railroady do this or your character commits seppuku in shame, but that is just bad GMing and can be avoided.
See, I get where you're coming from, but the previous option was "Turn into a zombie NPC or your character commits seppuku in shame," if we assume the same DM. The idea that your character can hang on to some of their personal agency like Yajinden, Rekai, Kuroda, or Kokujin is a lot more interesting, even if Daigotsu himself was something of a Mary Sue.
I'll just run through the game in a way that I think is helpful based on my observations.
SETUP:
Separate your Fate (green backed cards) and Dynasty (black backed cards) decks, placing the Dynasty deck on your left. Also have out your clan's Stronghold (e.g. The Shadow's Lair and the Border Keep holding. At this point, you determine who's going first based on the starting honor (the number in the square) printed on each player's stronghold. Whichever player has higher honor goes first If you're going second, have Bamboo Harvesters out.
Now, take the top 4 cards of your Dynasty deck and lay them out horizontally and face down (you should only see the card backs). You also draw a hand of 6 Fate cards. Play begins at this point.
THE TURN Events Phase:
From right to left, the starting player reveals his Dynasty cards by flipping them over.
CARDS THAT RESOLVE IN THIS PHASE: Celestials (like Yoritomo's Guidance XP), Regions (like Shinden Shorai), Events (like Boastful Proclamation), some Reactions (like Forging Destiny)
ENDING THE GAME NOTE: If you start the Events phase with 40 or more honor, you win the game. If you start the events phase with all five elemental rings put into play by their own traits, you win the game. If you start the events phase at -20 honor, you lose the game.
After a card enters play in this phase, the province is refilled by a facedown Dynasty card from the top of your deck. This is all that happens in the Events Phase, from there we move straight into the
Posts
I get the stalemate issue, and when I started the game I thought that's what happened to. What breaks it at high level play, besides a 45 minute time limit, is recognizing when to attack and when to defend. For example, if your opponent swings his entire army in to take one province, or has to because he can't split his attack, and you can take two of his provinces with the defenders he gets; that ends games. Knowing that you can't win a fight (e.g. they have more actions on the field than you can deal with in your hand), don't defend and take the time to build up your army and hand.
One issue that exists even at high level play is that decks that go second against military Crab are pretty much always on the back foot. Crab have really strong and well-costed personalities backed up by pretty good strongholds. I would recommend The Shadow's Lair as the stronghold to run against Crab, as it can blow out a lot of attacks (and it can blow out defenders in certain cases too!).
Originally, the Spider appeared much like Toturi's Army to outside observers; ronin and monks who would sweep in to save villages. They competed in the Race for the Throne seeking legitimacy, but when Kitsuki Iweko ascended the true nature of the Spider was revealed to her. The Imperial Legions burned down the Shadowlands Marsh of the Shinomen, killing several Spider leaders and obliterating their strongholds there and the Spider were known by most to be tainted at that point.
Daigotsu himself, however, lived on through the purge and restructured the Spider to better accommodate the infiltration goal. Untainted monks, members of the Order of the Spider, were sent out to aid people throughout Rokugan and teach the various virtues of Shourido. Tainted samurai swore fealty to Daigotsu himself, all the while Daigotsu took great pains to keep his son Kanpeki free of the Shadowlands Taint. Their story arc through Celestial Edition was rebuilding their power and restructuring their Clan. Up until the Goddesses series, that is.
Goddesses was the climax of Celestial Edition and depicted the Empire's struggles against the hordes of Kali-Ma. A group of Great Clan samurai, traveling with a mysterious monk known as Furumaro, had been guarding the Black Scroll that contained the essence of Kali-Ma. As Kali-Ma attacked near them, the monk revealed himself to be Fu Leng, opening the Black Scroll and taking Kali-Ma's essence into himself in order to regain godlike powers and battle the gaijin Destroyer. As Fu Leng entered the battle in dragon form (as depicted in the art of The Deciding Moment), the legions of the Spider appeared. The Imperial Legions, Crab Clan, Lion Clan, and Unicorn Clan armies that had been fighting the Destroyers didn't know whom to fight. As that happened, Daigotsu appeared in front of the Empress Iweko seeking to have his Clan recognized in order to give them leave to fight the armies of Kali-Ma. Iweko, divine Empress of Rokugan, agreed on one condition: the Spider would become a Great Clan only if their lord Daigotsu committed seppukku for his many crimes against the Empire. Daigotsu, knowing his son's future was on the line, agreed to the deal.
As that went down, Shahai (Daigotsu's wife and mother of Kanpeki) found the Black Scroll and the bewildered samurai protecting it. She gathered the Taint and magic in the area, using the souls of some of the samurai involved, intending to feed it to Fu Leng who was struggling against Kali-Ma. Hiruma Akio, the Crab member of the group, crushed Shahai's skull with a tetsubo before the ritual was completed, and Fu Leng was killed by Kali-Ma. At the same time, Daigotsu finished his seppukku.
Kali-Ma roaring in triumph, the gaijin god was surprised when a Festering Pit opened near her. An enormous, humanlike figure emerged from it; the new Dark Lord of the Shadowlands. Daigotsu had assumed control of Jigoku, stripping Kali-Ma of power, and drug her into the depths of Jigoku. With Kali-Ma defeated, the Spider aided the Imperials and Clan armies in destroying her army and routing them from Rokugan. Daigotsu remained to renegotiate the deal with the Empress. The Spider would live, and Kanpeki's son would be raised alongside Iweko's own heirs. In fact, Iweko's second son would be raised among the Spider Clan and learn their ways. In exchange, Daigotsu removed the Shadowlands Taint. It would no longer affect humans unwillingly, nor would it be spread by Shadowlands creatures though those who wished its power could call on it still. Finally, with the gaijin hordes defeated and the Clans wondering what would happen next, Iweko spoke to the assembled legions one phrase. When asked what the Spider would do, she answered "Go forth, and conquer in my name."
Fast forward 25 years. Tainted samurai are allowed to swear fealty to the Spider Clan. The Spider, alongside the Mantis, are conquering the wilds of the former Ivory Kingdoms. The Spider in particular are sent into the most dangerous places, the unexplored places, and spend resources fighting the remnants of the Cult of Rumahl which seek the resurrection of Kali-Ma. Daigotsu Kanpeki, son of the Dark Lord, now leads the Spider Clan and still bears no Taint. The Susumu family comprises the Spider courtiers, while untainted members of the Spider and the monk orders are allowed in Rokugan.
Note that Spider infiltration of other clans still continues, and the Spider have all but claimed the Sparrow Clan. They even got Kyuden Suzume as a stronghold. Infiltrators like Yoritomo Aranai are still present in other clans as well.
I miss the narrative of this game.
I'd love to see my character canonized in the fiction (minor Crane duelist, Kakita Hotta) either in a story or as a card (unlikely).
Kanpeki is badass. Even his rule descriptions are badass!
I see your Kanpeki and raise you a Mantis Clan Champion.
"Before the first straightening each battle of a Personality whose enemy leader is a Crab Clan player: Negate that straightening"
"After the first time each phase another player's action targets Bofana: If the action was not performed by a card with (current) Force equal to or higher than Bofana's base Force, the player discards a card."
Why do I need a law degree to understand what a card does? Are there any removal spells, board wipes, or counterspells? I don't understand how you can catch up in this game? Besides combat, the rest of the game is incredibly uninteractive. Also, these intro products are some of the worst products I've ever seen. The Learn to Play set has you go through a combat step that goes through 20+ battle abilities, spells, and tactics during ONE combat step. What kind of fucking intro product is this??? Does every guy in the intro product need 20 battle abilities? LOL, what happened to intro products that have mostly vanilla guys, and the more complicated stuff on your uncommons and rare bombs? If this product was designed to ease people into the game then its a complete failure.
I'm pissed because this game seemed really cool initially, even though I didn't get it. Except, the more I try to get it the less fun it is becoming.
It sounds like what you're looking for is the Honor and Treachery learn to play set. It consists of two pre-made decks, the Scorpion and the Phoenix, and is built with lots of blank guys and simple effects. They cut out, IIRC, traits and reactions entirely to make it easier to understand.
There are counterspells, but they don't operate like Magic does. They are Reactions with specific triggers, like Yasuki Ikke and Inexorable. There are also delay effects like the Halls of the Forgotten which I'm sure you're familiar with. There are no board wipe abilities currently, but there are tons and tons of removal cards. Looming Danger is just the most recent in an arc full of cards that are capable of killing units.
Honestly, when I was faced with the wall of the L5R rules, I knew I was interested enough in the game to learn them. I went straight to reading the L5R Rules Wiki until I understood complexities of timing, targeting, and whatnot. Magic loads all of its complexity onto cards, L5R loads its complexity into the rules. Once you understand the admittedly high wall, the game is fairly intuitive in how it works.
In Ivory Edition, the upcoming edition, they are simplifying card text a lot. So, instead of something like War Encampment you get Colonial Temple. Instead of a dude like Hida Yamadera you'll get Hiruma Nikaru XP2. The aim is, of course, to fix the problem that you seem to be running into without removing the complexity that many L5R players enjoy.
Especially since we might now have a new front-runner for the Warlord position out of nowhere, if the math works out correctly.
Just gotta keep her alive and picking up votes for this last week, and The Tag Team of Doom Alliance might pull off Yoritomo Aranai becoming Warlord.
Really wish I was able to get this weekend off so I could go to Detroit.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Whenever we got to combat, we kind of stumbled around trying to figure out WTF was going on. I think the last time we played was when it seemed like my Crane champion could, at any time, just duel and murder anyone on the board, effectively rendering everyone else's army completely useless.
Were we doing it wrong? Probably absolutely. But we couldn't figure out WHAT we were doing wrong, and it turned into a total buzzkill.
That being said, the lore can be a lot of fun, and the fact that the tournaments influence the game's design and history is just a fantastic idea. I've also always wanted to run an L5R RPG campaign.
that is all
I get what you're saying there. Hrmm, might it be better if I posted the sort of typical stumbling points I see new players have? Sort of an L5R FAQ, if you will.
The game takes time to learn, especially certain ins and outs (I just learned that reprint personalities were allowed in on Legacy format and not the other just a couple days ago
EDIT: Though a FAQ should start with questions, so if you have any feel free to ask them and I'll work them in.
I don't mind a game being complex, but why is the complexity pushed into the ability to understand how to play at a basic level? It should be loaded into picking the best lines, determining the best play, determining the highest EV choice. It should not be "I can't understand what this guy's ability does?"
Then there is some stuff I just don't fucking understand period. Why are 80%+ of the spells and tactics zero gold? That makes the game strategically LESS complex, while making the process of analyzing basic combat insanely more complex! Why does the winner of combat not lose any units? What good purpose can that serve? Everytime I enter combat I feel like the entire game is on the line and even if its turn 3 if I get into combat the winner will be decided right there.
Other random things that I find stupid -
Multiple cards with "Once per turn" effects that have no way to visually indicate they've been used. They don't bow, they don't get a token, nothing.
WAY WAY WAY too many activated abilities during combat. Why?????? This makes combat impossible to figure out. There are so many way to give cards unique abilities without making them activated.
Little to no way to interact with opponents during the event, action, or dynasty phase. Where are the non combat step cards with effects like Doom Blade, Flame Slash, Oblivion Ring, and Cancel in MTG?
Things I really like -
Two deck system
The "feel" of building up my economy
The "feel" of the political cards and dueling give the feeling of each game having a narrative
The cool art, characters, setting, and lore
The personality / unit system
Phases, and then available actions during those phases.
During combat, which actions occur first; naval, range, magic, abilities.
As well as any "open rules". (Did they change that rule that if the Imperial Favor was free, any personality could via for it?)
Dragon got shut out in Detroit, and were only able to pick up three votes in the Philippines.... which wasn't enough to close the five point gap that Aranai had on her, and she amazingly survived the weekend.
We have ourselves a Mantis Warlord, kids.
BOOSH!
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Throne can I get a new Organizational chart please?
I know Emperor, Voice, Adviser, Shogun, Emerald/Jade/Topaz Champion, but not Warlord...
The only thing that could stop the Chags... was the banhammer.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
As to the seppuku thing, yeah find another GM. Whomever would do that to their players shouldn't be running L5R.
See, I get where you're coming from, but the previous option was "Turn into a zombie NPC or your character commits seppuku in shame," if we assume the same DM. The idea that your character can hang on to some of their personal agency like Yajinden, Rekai, Kuroda, or Kokujin is a lot more interesting, even if Daigotsu himself was something of a Mary Sue.
I'll just run through the game in a way that I think is helpful based on my observations.
SETUP:
Separate your Fate (green backed cards) and Dynasty (black backed cards) decks, placing the Dynasty deck on your left. Also have out your clan's Stronghold (e.g. The Shadow's Lair and the Border Keep holding. At this point, you determine who's going first based on the starting honor (the number in the square) printed on each player's stronghold. Whichever player has higher honor goes first If you're going second, have Bamboo Harvesters out.
Now, take the top 4 cards of your Dynasty deck and lay them out horizontally and face down (you should only see the card backs). You also draw a hand of 6 Fate cards. Play begins at this point.
Events Phase:
From right to left, the starting player reveals his Dynasty cards by flipping them over.
CARDS THAT RESOLVE IN THIS PHASE: Celestials (like Yoritomo's Guidance XP), Regions (like Shinden Shorai), Events (like Boastful Proclamation), some Reactions (like Forging Destiny)
ENDING THE GAME NOTE: If you start the Events phase with 40 or more honor, you win the game. If you start the events phase with all five elemental rings put into play by their own traits, you win the game. If you start the events phase at -20 honor, you lose the game.
After a card enters play in this phase, the province is refilled by a facedown Dynasty card from the top of your deck. This is all that happens in the Events Phase, from there we move straight into the