In tangentially related fantasy news, Scott Lynch's The Republic of Thieves is finally out in eight days! Here's hoping it'll be worth the wait.
Holy shit, I had given this series up as lost due to Lynch's issues. That's great news. Preordered!
I read the first book and liked it but I haven't read the second yet.
Back to Sanderson, the only book of his I've read is War of Kings and while very long it got me interested enough in the world he built to check out the second book when/if it comes out in January.
Because we were jonesing for some more Harry Potter. It's a book series about a boy who discovers his magical powers and goes to a school for witches and wizards. Scratched that itch perfectly.
What is this I don't even.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
I can almost guarantee you that none of the creators are going to read that because they very, very rarely read the forums.
I can still vent god dammit...
I.e. using a public forum to SHOUT about how you dislike this comic?
Yes. Because that is what venting is, isn't it? Yelling at someone that probably doesn't deserve it for something that I should have just let go in the first place.
I have a bad habit using ALL CAPS as a form of deadpan emphasis instead of SHOUTING like everyone else uses it... My bad.
The joke literally has nothing to do with Sanderson's work. The joke is on the fan-base around it and two very cliche quotes they use to describe Sanderson's work. It doesn't even express an opinion for his work past 'some people don't like it'.
Seriously dude, chill.
Also Mist-trench coats are lame.
So what your saying is that I shouldn't be offended by the comic because they don't like the Sanderson but because they don't like me on principle because of the reasons I like Sanderson. And also most of their own work... Explain that one to me...
And how is "you read one or two pages and then threw up" not an opinion on the quality of the work?
Also, yes the mist-cloaks do look lame. So do the fantasied Boyscout uniforms in Lookouts, but that's part of the charm isn't it? It's not the cloths that make the man it's the little girl in the funny looking cloak that magically fling metal shrapnel at you like buckshot and rip you to shreds.
Right now I am chill. You want to see jackassed and opinionated, you should have read the review I wrote for Halo Legends that amazon.com refused to post because of the profanity. I made an ASS out of myself on that.
No I'm saying the actual joke actually has nothing to do with offending anyone or saying anyone is wrong. It's a joke on quotes used to describe his work constantly that are actually rather vague and uninformative (and therefore could just as easily come from someone who hasn't read the books). You're attributing malice and spite where there is none. It's just as easy to apply Poe's law to the comic if you want and read it as them actually taking the miccy out of people who genuinely think those sort of lines are super serious stuff or the summary of the books.
Implying that some people did not like the book is not expressing an opinion of the work. This is just like saying some people don't like Nutella. I can say some people don't like Nutella without in anyway imply whether I liked the product or not.
Mist-cloaks are awesome, Mist Trenchcoats from Alloy of Law are dumb.
I'm still seeing jackassed and annoyed that someone dared make a joke on the internet about an author you like.
EDIT: Accusing the PA guys of lying to your face before going on to tell them to never use something as the butt of a joke again might possibly count as respectful to some people. It certainly comes off as absurd if nothing else to me.
Ok... Let me clarify my stance. When I read the comic I understood it as Tycho, who refers to the books as stupid (plainly stated with no hint that he is referring to this as an opinion of held only by the reader) and how he wants to give advice to others who feel the same way as him on how to avoid dealing with overly fanatic fans of said Sandersan books (ie all fans of said books) by way of subterfuge. Gabe, who is known to be very picky on his fantasy reading choices, gives these examples as though he is trying to recite form a poorly memorized script (written by Tycho).
I'm sure that when I read Tycho's blog of the comic everything will become more clear to me and I will realize I was very wrong and VERY stupid.
I got to ask, what did I say that made you think I was "Accusing the PA guys of lying to my face before going on to tell them to never use something as the butt of a joke again". If you could tell me then I could better clarify what I originally meant. I want specific quotes and examples in order to avoid confusion on my part.
Charger347 on
They ask me, "why the cabbage?" I say, "The hell if I know."
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tuxkamenreally took this picture.Registered Userregular
Everyone! Please! Please!
In this time of strife, we must all come together. Don't focus on our differences; there is only hatred to be found in the space between our opinions.
Let us instead seek common ground. Let us find the one place where we can all agree, with no dissension and no argument:
Thus, the others all die before tuxkamen dies to the vote. Hence, tuxkamen survives, village victory.
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tuxkamenreally took this picture.Registered Userregular
Also I find Sanderson's work to be hit or miss. I really enjoyed the Mistborn Trilogy, but Tycho is right about Sanderson's 'thing'. It's good to have a well thought-out magic system in your book series, so that you are aware of what can and should and can't and shouldn't happen. When you do it for every single book, it feels out of place and forced. To me Warbreaker was a prime example of this because it went into excruciating detail on a system that feels patently ridiculous (at least to me).
Because we were jonesing for some more Harry Potter. It's a book series about a boy who discovers his magical powers and goes to a school for witches and wizards. Scratched that itch perfectly.
And also because the writing is superb and the story is epic.
I always love it when people shit on fantasy writers, but I don't know Tycho..pretty damn daring to drop this comic just as you start writing The Daughters novel.
Reading this comic feels like hanging out with a friend when someone you barely know walks in the room and your friend just randomly decides to spit on the guy.
It's like, wow, that seemed like a really crappy thing to do, why do you hate that guy so much?
I've only ever read Way of Kings when it comes to Sanderson, but I enjoyed it. I didn't think it was a masterwork, but I didn't think it was drivel either. (Mostly, I just liked Shallan and her story.) So I was taken aback by today's comic. Not offended, just confused, like something just went down and I'm lost as to why. I'm just wondering if there's some reason PA just went to Defcon 0 on Sanderson.
It seems especially strange to me given that Jerry has been talking about gearing up to write his own novel. As a writer, it seems to me a strange mindset to set out and attack other novelists. I know PA pokes fun at people regularly, but this didn't feel fun. It felt mean. Maybe I'm just missing the joke on this one. I kinda hope they recorded the session for it for the DLC podcast, so I can hear where this came from.
I can certainly see how someone who really likes Sanderson would feel disrespected. Tycho not only puts the books down as stupid directly and implies they might induce vomiting, he also says you can pass as a real fan by spouting simple platitudes. He sort of seems to be saying that Sanderson fans not only have objectively bad taste, but they are stupid with nothing to say.
I'm not usually hard pressed to find the comedy in some ball busting, and I'm not easy to offend, but this one's got me a bit shell shocked. I'm interested in what today's post has to say when it goes up.
I just think it's hilarious how many people here who have never read Sanderson's books are parroting how much he sucks just because of this strip. It's like... "Must... not... have own opinion. Must... close off... all possibilities... that I might enjoy books by this author..."
LOL. I also look forward to the epic fandom war.
I've only ever read Way of Kings when it comes to Sanderson, but I enjoyed it. I didn't think it was a masterwork, but I didn't think it was drivel either. (Mostly, I just liked Shallan and her story.)
Yep, and I'm glad that she's apparently the focus of the second book.
Because we were jonesing for some more Harry Potter. It's a book series about a boy who discovers his magical powers and goes to a school for witches and wizards. Scratched that itch perfectly.
On the other hand, I, as someone who's never given two shits about Harry Potter, found NotW a crashing bore.
Because we were jonesing for some more Harry Potter. It's a book series about a boy who discovers his magical powers and goes to a school for witches and wizards. Scratched that itch perfectly.
And also because the writing is superb and the story is epic.
Rothfuss' writing was good enough to keep me from just giving up midway through when he spent half the book telling us about the accrued interest on his protagonist's debts and the twists and turns of his petty rivalry with Draco Malfoy-analogue, but that is not the stuff of which epic stories are made.
Maybe he got to the epic stuff in the second book. I wouldn't know, I never bothered picking it up.
I think Shallan definitely needs her own book to flesh her out, because she came across as too... worldly? For someone who had supposedly had this kinda sheltered life, I remember something about a scene with some sailors or something where she came across as too clever by half. Also Sanderson does not understand how the human body works because being starved nearly to death does not give you whipcord muscles.
In this time of strife, we must all come together. Don't focus on our differences; there is only hatred to be found in the space between our opinions.
Let us instead seek common ground. Let us find the one place where we can all agree, with no dissension and no argument:
I love this one. It's funny, makes an amusing joke about the absurdity of some (perhaps most) "urban fantasy", and finishes with another good joke. The Sanderson strip is, IMO, missing the joke part. There's nothing clever or witty, and it just reads like someone saying "Haha, you like a thing that I find unworthy" followed by (again) a not-terribly-clever parody of what? Things people say they legitimately like about the author? I dunno, PA has done plenty of hilarious mocking and/or critiquing of works in 3 panels before, but I just don't think this one works on any level.
I think Shallan definitely needs her own book to flesh her out, because she came across as too... worldly? For someone who had supposedly had this kinda sheltered life, I remember something about a scene with some sailors or something where she came across as too clever by half. Also Sanderson does not understand how the human body works because being starved nearly to death does not give you whipcord muscles.
It's been awhile, but by the time we're introduced to her, hasn't she been running a charade that her father is still alive and her house is fine for some time? Also, she may be a noble of sorts, but she was of a lesser house, so I don't know how spoiled you should expect her to be. I didn't find her cleverness out of place at all. Being clever and tricky aren't merely traits of the poor.
As for being worldly... Is she? I didn't get a sense that she was exactly street smart. She's clever and a quick study, sure, but was she especially street wise? Again, it's been awhile so I don't remember specifics. I thought at some point she got jumped by a bunch of thieves in some dark alley, didn't she? That doesn't seem especially worldly. I could be wrong, though.
I just remember really liking her character. I liked her wide eyed willingness to learn mixed with her determined attitude and the conflict of interests between her responsibilities and her desires. I could take or leave the whole story of knights and armies and slaves out on the rocks, but I'd love to read more about Shallan.
When I read it I saw it as all his flaws being in his personality. No matter how great Kvothe was at everything he did he still couldn't overcome the fact that hes still a conniving little bastard that did horrible things to get what he wanted and was consumed with revenge for his family. He lived his entire life building mental walls around his heart to stop himself from being hurt again so he hurts others instead. He's built a complex around himself that because he is a victim and he is better than everyone else that means that he is right about everything no matter what he does or who he hurts in return. I'd say someone with that type of personality is severely flawed.
You know, I never really thought about it that way before. That actually gives me a new perspective on the whole thing and probably explains why I somewhat preferred the older version of the character telling the story. The older version seemed to have realized those things about himself and it made the character a bit more three dimensional for me. Approaching the character and book from the perspective that he's so emotionally damaged that he's built up this personality to protect himself makes sense and somewhat fixes things. I still think he succeeds far too often at times but I also think he's headed for a massive failure that will shake him hard. Although perhaps that's already been made clear. It's been a while since I read it.
Also, Wise Man's Fear was, as you put it, a "fantasy of a sexually repressed, nerdy teenage boy". Felurian is not subtle. Gabe and Tycho even made a comic on how not subtle it was. It involved sex with two ninjas. Still loved the book though.
Ah. I have Wise Man's Fear but have yet to read it. I kind of want to now.
And yes Wheel was a clusterfuck. It was ridiculously complex. How could a story about how the very fabric of the universe had a infinitely detailed plan spanning over millennia against its exact polar opposite force not be needlessly complex. But everything that he wrote had a purpose, everything he wrote fit, and everything he wrote came around back to itself in the end. Yes it was long, yes it was confusing, yes it was self gratifying, but what 15 book series from the 1990's isn't.
Oh, I don't mind clusterfucks, especially given what you said. There were just a lot of things that started to grind my nerves. They may have been resolved towards the end of the series but I guess I just couldn't make it through. Still, I do think it's a testament to Sanderson that he was able to take this incredibly complex series with all these threads, written by someone else, and not only tie them together and have it make sense but provide a satisfying conclusion.
I think Shallan definitely needs her own book to flesh her out, because she came across as too... worldly? For someone who had supposedly had this kinda sheltered life, I remember something about a scene with some sailors or something where she came across as too clever by half. Also Sanderson does not understand how the human body works because being starved nearly to death does not give you whipcord muscles.
It's been awhile, but by the time we're introduced to her, hasn't she been running a charade that her father is still alive and her house is fine for some time? Also, she may be a noble of sorts, but she was of a lesser house, so I don't know how spoiled you should expect her to be. I didn't find her cleverness out of place at all. Being clever and tricky aren't merely traits of the poor.
As for being worldly... Is she? I didn't get a sense that she was exactly street smart. She's clever and a quick study, sure, but was she especially street wise? Again, it's been awhile so I don't remember specifics. I thought at some point she got jumped by a bunch of thieves in some dark alley, didn't she? That doesn't seem especially worldly. I could be wrong, though.
I just remember really liking her character. I liked her wide eyed willingness to learn mixed with her determined attitude and the conflict of interests between her responsibilities and her desires. I could take or leave the whole story of knights and armies and slaves out on the rocks, but I'd love to read more about Shallan.
Shallan, the assassin and all the between section vignettes are the highlights of the book so far for me (I'm nearing the end of part 4 of 5 I think). Everything out at the shattered fields feels like its just biding time for a nice cliffhanger ending to lead into the next book. That said, there are a lot of neat characters in those chapters but the story is dragging. But that just might because I'm way too used to Sanderson's novel structure which seems like it always follows a general pattern of a slow build up to a huge conflagration at the end and a short, quiet or sometimes rushed feeling ending that settles the pieces for the next story/ties up some ends and leaves others open for sequels.
I think Shallan definitely needs her own book to flesh her out, because she came across as too... worldly? For someone who had supposedly had this kinda sheltered life, I remember something about a scene with some sailors or something where she came across as too clever by half. Also Sanderson does not understand how the human body works because being starved nearly to death does not give you whipcord muscles.
It's been awhile, but by the time we're introduced to her, hasn't she been running a charade that her father is still alive and her house is fine for some time? Also, she may be a noble of sorts, but she was of a lesser house, so I don't know how spoiled you should expect her to be. I didn't find her cleverness out of place at all. Being clever and tricky aren't merely traits of the poor.
As for being worldly... Is she? I didn't get a sense that she was exactly street smart. She's clever and a quick study, sure, but was she especially street wise? Again, it's been awhile so I don't remember specifics. I thought at some point she got jumped by a bunch of thieves in some dark alley, didn't she? That doesn't seem especially worldly. I could be wrong, though.
I just remember really liking her character. I liked her wide eyed willingness to learn mixed with her determined attitude and the conflict of interests between her responsibilities and her desires. I could take or leave the whole story of knights and armies and slaves out on the rocks, but I'd love to read more about Shallan.
Yeah, she's clever with words, but then she'd been traveling with those sailors for a while so was probably pretty comfortable around them.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
It seems especially strange to me given that Jerry has been talking about gearing up to write his own novel. As a writer, it seems to me a strange mindset to set out and attack other novelists. I know PA pokes fun at people regularly, but this didn't feel fun. It felt mean. Maybe I'm just missing the joke on this one. I kinda hope they recorded the session for it for the DLC podcast, so I can hear where this came from.
They did (it actually dropped a couple days before the comic). I think a couple people around the office or other friends of theirs like Sanderson.
Reading this comic feels like hanging out with a friend when someone you barely know walks in the room and your friend just randomly decides to spit on the guy.
It's like, wow, that seemed like a really crappy thing to do, why do you hate that guy so much?
I've only ever read Way of Kings when it comes to Sanderson, but I enjoyed it. I didn't think it was a masterwork, but I didn't think it was drivel either. (Mostly, I just liked Shallan and her story.) So I was taken aback by today's comic. Not offended, just confused, like something just went down and I'm lost as to why. I'm just wondering if there's some reason PA just went to Defcon 0 on Sanderson.
It seems especially strange to me given that Jerry has been talking about gearing up to write his own novel. As a writer, it seems to me a strange mindset to set out and attack other novelists. I know PA pokes fun at people regularly, but this didn't feel fun. It felt mean. Maybe I'm just missing the joke on this one. I kinda hope they recorded the session for it for the DLC podcast, so I can hear where this came from.
I can certainly see how someone who really likes Sanderson would feel disrespected. Tycho not only puts the books down as stupid directly and implies they might induce vomiting, he also says you can pass as a real fan by spouting simple platitudes. He sort of seems to be saying that Sanderson fans not only have objectively bad taste, but they are stupid with nothing to say.
I'm not usually hard pressed to find the comedy in some ball busting, and I'm not easy to offend, but this one's got me a bit shell shocked. I'm interested in what today's post has to say when it goes up.
You did a much better job describing my feelings toward the comic in one post than I did in ten. I have been humbled...
They ask me, "why the cabbage?" I say, "The hell if I know."
I think Shallan definitely needs her own book to flesh her out, because she came across as too... worldly? For someone who had supposedly had this kinda sheltered life, I remember something about a scene with some sailors or something where she came across as too clever by half. Also Sanderson does not understand how the human body works because being starved nearly to death does not give you whipcord muscles.
It's been awhile, but by the time we're introduced to her, hasn't she been running a charade that her father is still alive and her house is fine for some time? Also, she may be a noble of sorts, but she was of a lesser house, so I don't know how spoiled you should expect her to be. I didn't find her cleverness out of place at all. Being clever and tricky aren't merely traits of the poor.
As for being worldly... Is she? I didn't get a sense that she was exactly street smart. She's clever and a quick study, sure, but was she especially street wise? Again, it's been awhile so I don't remember specifics. I thought at some point she got jumped by a bunch of thieves in some dark alley, didn't she? That doesn't seem especially worldly. I could be wrong, though.
I just remember really liking her character. I liked her wide eyed willingness to learn mixed with her determined attitude and the conflict of interests between her responsibilities and her desires. I could take or leave the whole story of knights and armies and slaves out on the rocks, but I'd love to read more about Shallan.
Shallan, the assassin and all the between section vignettes are the highlights of the book so far for me (I'm nearing the end of part 4 of 5 I think). Everything out at the shattered fields feels like its just biding time for a nice cliffhanger ending to lead into the next book. That said, there are a lot of neat characters in those chapters but the story is dragging. But that just might because I'm way too used to Sanderson's novel structure which seems like it always follows a general pattern of a slow build up to a huge conflagration at the end and a short, quiet or sometimes rushed feeling ending that settles the pieces for the next story/ties up some ends and leaves others open for sequels.
A friend of mine and I talked about this once and settled on about 80%. It's right around that mark in damn near every one of his books where it goes from "Okay, this is kinda cool, I wonder where it's going?" to turn-this-one-to-11-type battles, crazy magic, etc. I don't mind it, and I like Sanderson for the most part, but it is quite predictable.
When I read it I saw it as all his flaws being in his personality. No matter how great Kvothe was at everything he did he still couldn't overcome the fact that hes still a conniving little bastard that did horrible things to get what he wanted and was consumed with revenge for his family. He lived his entire life building mental walls around his heart to stop himself from being hurt again so he hurts others instead. He's built a complex around himself that because he is a victim and he is better than everyone else that means that he is right about everything no matter what he does or who he hurts in return. I'd say someone with that type of personality is severely flawed.
You know, I never really thought about it that way before. That actually gives me a new perspective on the whole thing and probably explains why I somewhat preferred the older version of the character telling the story. The older version seemed to have realized those things about himself and it made the character a bit more three dimensional for me. Approaching the character and book from the perspective that he's so emotionally damaged that he's built up this personality to protect himself makes sense and somewhat fixes things. I still think he succeeds far too often at times but I also think he's headed for a massive failure that will shake him hard. Although perhaps that's already been made clear. It's been a while since I read it.
Also, Wise Man's Fear was, as you put it, a "fantasy of a sexually repressed, nerdy teenage boy". Felurian is not subtle. Gabe and Tycho even made a comic on how not subtle it was. It involved sex with two ninjas. Still loved the book though.
Ah. I have Wise Man's Fear but have yet to read it. I kind of want to now.
And yes Wheel was a clusterfuck. It was ridiculously complex. How could a story about how the very fabric of the universe had a infinitely detailed plan spanning over millennia against its exact polar opposite force not be needlessly complex. But everything that he wrote had a purpose, everything he wrote fit, and everything he wrote came around back to itself in the end. Yes it was long, yes it was confusing, yes it was self gratifying, but what 15 book series from the 1990's isn't.
Oh, I don't mind clusterfucks, especially given what you said. There were just a lot of things that started to grind my nerves. They may have been resolved towards the end of the series but I guess I just couldn't make it through. Still, I do think it's a testament to Sanderson that he was able to take this incredibly complex series with all these threads, written by someone else, and not only tie them together and have it make sense but provide a satisfying conclusion.
I read the first eleven books and the last three books both in two big chunks each so that definitely gave me the opportunity to see how everything tied together neatly. It got better for me the more I read, but I could definitely see why people got frustrated with it and gave up.
They ask me, "why the cabbage?" I say, "The hell if I know."
A friend of mine and I talked about this once and settled on about 80%. It's right around that mark in damn near every one of his books where it goes from "Okay, this is kinda cool, I wonder where it's going?" to turn-this-one-to-11-type battles, crazy magic, etc. I don't mind it, and I like Sanderson for the most part, but it is quite predictable.
Yeah I don't mind it that much. The only book that's really bad for this structure is Elantris. The ending is such a giant mess because of it.
The first Sanderson book I read was The Way of Kings, and the writing in that is a lot more sophisticated and less young adult-y than Mistborn or any of his others. I remember enjoying that book so much that I immediately grabbed all the other books he'd written I could lay my hands on, and then being massively bored and disappointed. Seriously, if you could see yourself liking Brandon Sanderson for the fantastic worldbuilding and the cool twists and whatnot, but want a bit more substance to your high fantasy, give Way of Kings a whirl.
Having said that, Tycho's trickery would totally work on me. I've pretty much said all that verbatim without being sarcastic, before
it's like no one's ever been joshed for being irrational fans of something before.
i'll tell these forums a secret: i'm a big anime nerd. like, i remember Gainax before they were Gainax anime nerd. like i prefer Go Lion in the original Japanese audio instead of the Voltron abomination kind of nerd. the popular thing nowadays is for people to shit on anime. i get that. much of it is weird, lots of it is problematic, but some of it can be and is outstanding. i'll just cling to my Cowboy Bebop dvds (or my Attack on Titan, uh, files) and smile blithely over here.
i've come to accept the notions that 1) people have different tastes, and 2) some fans can be overzealous about their fandom. for example, Homestuck. or Firefly. holy fuck. we get it. and while i actually do like those two particular things, fandom tends to take things like that and utterly ruin them forever with overreaction. i'm fairly sure the Internet is helping (or not helping) in that regard.
so, damn, everyone take a deep breath and recognize what the comic is doing here: making fun of terrible fandom, while also making fun of people (like Gabe) who have shallow critiques of said fandom.
and now i've done it. i've killed the joke. you've all made me kill. i hope you're proud of yourselves.
They did (it actually dropped a couple days before the comic). I think a couple people around the office or other friends of theirs like Sanderson.
Yeah, I am a big fan of Sanderson and tease Mike pretty relentlessly for thinking eating metal and coloring the world with your voice are bad magic systems.
Never read Sanderson, so I don't really get the comic in the way that those more familiar with his works must understand it. Still, this just seems more of an indictment of general fantasy fiction as a whole, with Sanderson thrown up as an easily-identifiable example. Let's face it - there's a lot of "bad" fantasy out there. Sure, it might be enjoyable and interesting and a good page-turner, but it sounds like Sanderson is the fantasy equivalent of your typical beach read authors like Danielle Steel, Nora Roberts, and James Patterson. Don't overreact to something. The books could be perfectly serviceable and enjoyable without being some groundbreaking piece of fiction.
Just go read Joe Abercrombie and enjoy yourself
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The first Sanderson book I read was The Way of Kings, and the writing in that is a lot more sophisticated and less young adult-y than Mistborn or any of his others. I remember enjoying that book so much that I immediately grabbed all the other books he'd written I could lay my hands on, and then being massively bored and disappointed. Seriously, if you could see yourself liking Brandon Sanderson for the fantastic worldbuilding and the cool twists and whatnot, but want a bit more substance to your high fantasy, give Way of Kings a whirl.
Having said that, Tycho's trickery would totally work on me. I've pretty much said all that verbatim without being sarcastic, before
I was told that WoK was the best Sanderson book for someone who's never read any of his previous work so long as you don't mind an overly long start up fantasy novel.
They did (it actually dropped a couple days before the comic). I think a couple people around the office or other friends of theirs like Sanderson.
Yeah, I am a big fan of Sanderson and tease Mike pretty relentlessly for thinking eating metal and coloring the world with your voice are bad magic systems.
mistborn's magic system is awesome and pretty straight forward. I tried to petition my DM to let me use it in our pathfinder campaign but he didn't want anybody too tied to reagents.
warbringer's was neat but felt like, overly complicated at times. I did enjoy the talking sword though
Just read that the sequel to WoK doesn't come out now till early March. Might read the second Gentleman Bastards book in the interim. Right now I'm trying to get through the Two Towers and RotK before my A Dance with Dragons paperback arrives on Halloween.
The first Sanderson book I read was The Way of Kings, and the writing in that is a lot more sophisticated and less young adult-y than Mistborn or any of his others. I remember enjoying that book so much that I immediately grabbed all the other books he'd written I could lay my hands on, and then being massively bored and disappointed. Seriously, if you could see yourself liking Brandon Sanderson for the fantastic worldbuilding and the cool twists and whatnot, but want a bit more substance to your high fantasy, give Way of Kings a whirl.
Having said that, Tycho's trickery would totally work on me. I've pretty much said all that verbatim without being sarcastic, before
I was told that WoK was the best Sanderson book for someone who's never read any of his previous work so long as you don't mind an overly long start up fantasy novel.
I'd honestly say try Mistborn first, but WoK isn't bad either but I haven't finished it yet for what its worth.
And for people who think Tycho should be more kind-hearted toward authors now that he's noveling:
Nothing will make you look at the writing of others more clearly or more savagely than the process of deconstructing your own. You love someone, you love them to death. You hate someone, well, you get it.
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KalTorakOne way or another, they all end up inthe Undercity.Registered Userregular
They did (it actually dropped a couple days before the comic). I think a couple people around the office or other friends of theirs like Sanderson.
Yeah, I am a big fan of Sanderson and tease Mike pretty relentlessly for thinking eating metal and coloring the world with your voice are bad magic systems.
The first Sanderson book I read was The Way of Kings, and the writing in that is a lot more sophisticated and less young adult-y than Mistborn or any of his others. I remember enjoying that book so much that I immediately grabbed all the other books he'd written I could lay my hands on, and then being massively bored and disappointed. Seriously, if you could see yourself liking Brandon Sanderson for the fantastic worldbuilding and the cool twists and whatnot, but want a bit more substance to your high fantasy, give Way of Kings a whirl.
Having said that, Tycho's trickery would totally work on me. I've pretty much said all that verbatim without being sarcastic, before
I was told that WoK was the best Sanderson book for someone who's never read any of his previous work so long as you don't mind an overly long start up fantasy novel.
I'd honestly say try Mistborn first, but WoK isn't bad either but I haven't finished it yet for what its worth.
A big reason I started with WoK was that it was the only novel released so far in a planned 10 book series so I wasn't tempted to get a bunch of them at once. Same reason I started reading the Gentlemen Bastard series.
And thanks to Darkewolfe I'm now aware of another fantasy series I might want to check out.
I'm convinced Tycho hasn't really read anything of Sanderson's. Otherwise, he could come up with better criticism than vomit and base mockery of common praises to his work. For example, try picking on Sanderson's hard-on for the word "tempest". Or better yet, don't bash decent authors, bash someone like Goodkind who takes a story with good potential and mutilates it with his braying of morals and habit of beating the reader over the head with every facet of the story for fear his readers are too dumb to make the connections themselves.
Personally, I don't see much hope for Tycho's writing anything longer than a blog post. The man is more interested in needless complexity of sentence structure and disconnected zigg-zagging content to inflate his own self image as a competent writer than he is interested in actually getting his point across. He's like those people who all know who intentionally use obscure words in public for the acclaim of getting to explain the meaning. It's sometimes a fun diversion to decipher his deceptively coherent writing, but I wouldn't want a whole novel worth.
Of course, that's just my opinion. I personally dislike the Sand and Tithe strips precisely because his vague and disconnected style is even more apparent in those strips.
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Adam CasalinoNew York (in my heart)Registered Userregular
I don't have much to say about Sanderson, except that what I did read of Mistborn was pretty interesting.
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Holy shit, I had given this series up as lost due to Lynch's issues. That's great news. Preordered!
I read the first book and liked it but I haven't read the second yet.
Back to Sanderson, the only book of his I've read is War of Kings and while very long it got me interested enough in the world he built to check out the second book when/if it comes out in January.
Because we were jonesing for some more Harry Potter. It's a book series about a boy who discovers his magical powers and goes to a school for witches and wizards. Scratched that itch perfectly.
whoosh
Ok... Let me clarify my stance. When I read the comic I understood it as Tycho, who refers to the books as stupid (plainly stated with no hint that he is referring to this as an opinion of held only by the reader) and how he wants to give advice to others who feel the same way as him on how to avoid dealing with overly fanatic fans of said Sandersan books (ie all fans of said books) by way of subterfuge. Gabe, who is known to be very picky on his fantasy reading choices, gives these examples as though he is trying to recite form a poorly memorized script (written by Tycho).
I'm sure that when I read Tycho's blog of the comic everything will become more clear to me and I will realize I was very wrong and VERY stupid.
I got to ask, what did I say that made you think I was "Accusing the PA guys of lying to my face before going on to tell them to never use something as the butt of a joke again". If you could tell me then I could better clarify what I originally meant. I want specific quotes and examples in order to avoid confusion on my part.
In this time of strife, we must all come together. Don't focus on our differences; there is only hatred to be found in the space between our opinions.
Let us instead seek common ground. Let us find the one place where we can all agree, with no dissension and no argument:
Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
Games: Ad Astra Per Phalla | Choose Your Own Phalla
And also because the writing is superb and the story is epic.
It's like, wow, that seemed like a really crappy thing to do, why do you hate that guy so much?
I've only ever read Way of Kings when it comes to Sanderson, but I enjoyed it. I didn't think it was a masterwork, but I didn't think it was drivel either. (Mostly, I just liked Shallan and her story.) So I was taken aback by today's comic. Not offended, just confused, like something just went down and I'm lost as to why. I'm just wondering if there's some reason PA just went to Defcon 0 on Sanderson.
It seems especially strange to me given that Jerry has been talking about gearing up to write his own novel. As a writer, it seems to me a strange mindset to set out and attack other novelists. I know PA pokes fun at people regularly, but this didn't feel fun. It felt mean. Maybe I'm just missing the joke on this one. I kinda hope they recorded the session for it for the DLC podcast, so I can hear where this came from.
I can certainly see how someone who really likes Sanderson would feel disrespected. Tycho not only puts the books down as stupid directly and implies they might induce vomiting, he also says you can pass as a real fan by spouting simple platitudes. He sort of seems to be saying that Sanderson fans not only have objectively bad taste, but they are stupid with nothing to say.
I'm not usually hard pressed to find the comedy in some ball busting, and I'm not easy to offend, but this one's got me a bit shell shocked. I'm interested in what today's post has to say when it goes up.
LOL. I also look forward to the epic fandom war.
Yep, and I'm glad that she's apparently the focus of the second book.
On the other hand, I, as someone who's never given two shits about Harry Potter, found NotW a crashing bore.
Rothfuss' writing was good enough to keep me from just giving up midway through when he spent half the book telling us about the accrued interest on his protagonist's debts and the twists and turns of his petty rivalry with Draco Malfoy-analogue, but that is not the stuff of which epic stories are made.
Maybe he got to the epic stuff in the second book. I wouldn't know, I never bothered picking it up.
I love this one. It's funny, makes an amusing joke about the absurdity of some (perhaps most) "urban fantasy", and finishes with another good joke. The Sanderson strip is, IMO, missing the joke part. There's nothing clever or witty, and it just reads like someone saying "Haha, you like a thing that I find unworthy" followed by (again) a not-terribly-clever parody of what? Things people say they legitimately like about the author? I dunno, PA has done plenty of hilarious mocking and/or critiquing of works in 3 panels before, but I just don't think this one works on any level.
It's been awhile, but by the time we're introduced to her, hasn't she been running a charade that her father is still alive and her house is fine for some time? Also, she may be a noble of sorts, but she was of a lesser house, so I don't know how spoiled you should expect her to be. I didn't find her cleverness out of place at all. Being clever and tricky aren't merely traits of the poor.
As for being worldly... Is she? I didn't get a sense that she was exactly street smart. She's clever and a quick study, sure, but was she especially street wise? Again, it's been awhile so I don't remember specifics. I thought at some point she got jumped by a bunch of thieves in some dark alley, didn't she? That doesn't seem especially worldly. I could be wrong, though.
I just remember really liking her character. I liked her wide eyed willingness to learn mixed with her determined attitude and the conflict of interests between her responsibilities and her desires. I could take or leave the whole story of knights and armies and slaves out on the rocks, but I'd love to read more about Shallan.
You know, I never really thought about it that way before. That actually gives me a new perspective on the whole thing and probably explains why I somewhat preferred the older version of the character telling the story. The older version seemed to have realized those things about himself and it made the character a bit more three dimensional for me. Approaching the character and book from the perspective that he's so emotionally damaged that he's built up this personality to protect himself makes sense and somewhat fixes things. I still think he succeeds far too often at times but I also think he's headed for a massive failure that will shake him hard. Although perhaps that's already been made clear. It's been a while since I read it.
Ah. I have Wise Man's Fear but have yet to read it. I kind of want to now.
Oh, I don't mind clusterfucks, especially given what you said. There were just a lot of things that started to grind my nerves. They may have been resolved towards the end of the series but I guess I just couldn't make it through. Still, I do think it's a testament to Sanderson that he was able to take this incredibly complex series with all these threads, written by someone else, and not only tie them together and have it make sense but provide a satisfying conclusion.
Shallan, the assassin and all the between section vignettes are the highlights of the book so far for me (I'm nearing the end of part 4 of 5 I think). Everything out at the shattered fields feels like its just biding time for a nice cliffhanger ending to lead into the next book. That said, there are a lot of neat characters in those chapters but the story is dragging. But that just might because I'm way too used to Sanderson's novel structure which seems like it always follows a general pattern of a slow build up to a huge conflagration at the end and a short, quiet or sometimes rushed feeling ending that settles the pieces for the next story/ties up some ends and leaves others open for sequels.
Yeah, she's clever with words, but then she'd been traveling with those sailors for a while so was probably pretty comfortable around them.
They did (it actually dropped a couple days before the comic). I think a couple people around the office or other friends of theirs like Sanderson.
You did a much better job describing my feelings toward the comic in one post than I did in ten. I have been humbled...
A friend of mine and I talked about this once and settled on about 80%. It's right around that mark in damn near every one of his books where it goes from "Okay, this is kinda cool, I wonder where it's going?" to turn-this-one-to-11-type battles, crazy magic, etc. I don't mind it, and I like Sanderson for the most part, but it is quite predictable.
I read the first eleven books and the last three books both in two big chunks each so that definitely gave me the opportunity to see how everything tied together neatly. It got better for me the more I read, but I could definitely see why people got frustrated with it and gave up.
Yeah I don't mind it that much. The only book that's really bad for this structure is Elantris. The ending is such a giant mess because of it.
Having said that, Tycho's trickery would totally work on me. I've pretty much said all that verbatim without being sarcastic, before
it's like no one's ever been joshed for being irrational fans of something before.
i'll tell these forums a secret: i'm a big anime nerd. like, i remember Gainax before they were Gainax anime nerd. like i prefer Go Lion in the original Japanese audio instead of the Voltron abomination kind of nerd. the popular thing nowadays is for people to shit on anime. i get that. much of it is weird, lots of it is problematic, but some of it can be and is outstanding. i'll just cling to my Cowboy Bebop dvds (or my Attack on Titan, uh, files) and smile blithely over here.
i've come to accept the notions that 1) people have different tastes, and 2) some fans can be overzealous about their fandom. for example, Homestuck. or Firefly. holy fuck. we get it. and while i actually do like those two particular things, fandom tends to take things like that and utterly ruin them forever with overreaction. i'm fairly sure the Internet is helping (or not helping) in that regard.
so, damn, everyone take a deep breath and recognize what the comic is doing here: making fun of terrible fandom, while also making fun of people (like Gabe) who have shallow critiques of said fandom.
and now i've done it. i've killed the joke. you've all made me kill. i hope you're proud of yourselves.
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Yeah, I am a big fan of Sanderson and tease Mike pretty relentlessly for thinking eating metal and coloring the world with your voice are bad magic systems.
Just go read Joe Abercrombie and enjoy yourself
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I was told that WoK was the best Sanderson book for someone who's never read any of his previous work so long as you don't mind an overly long start up fantasy novel.
mistborn's magic system is awesome and pretty straight forward. I tried to petition my DM to let me use it in our pathfinder campaign but he didn't want anybody too tied to reagents.
warbringer's was neat but felt like, overly complicated at times. I did enjoy the talking sword though
I'd honestly say try Mistborn first, but WoK isn't bad either but I haven't finished it yet for what its worth.
And for people who think Tycho should be more kind-hearted toward authors now that he's noveling:
Nothing will make you look at the writing of others more clearly or more savagely than the process of deconstructing your own. You love someone, you love them to death. You hate someone, well, you get it.
now I sort of want to read them
possibly while smoking a fat bag of bowls
A big reason I started with WoK was that it was the only novel released so far in a planned 10 book series so I wasn't tempted to get a bunch of them at once. Same reason I started reading the Gentlemen Bastard series.
And thanks to Darkewolfe I'm now aware of another fantasy series I might want to check out.
Jerry and Mike made a name for themselves by mocking video games and video game reviewers, then decided to make their own series of video games..
Personally, I don't see much hope for Tycho's writing anything longer than a blog post. The man is more interested in needless complexity of sentence structure and disconnected zigg-zagging content to inflate his own self image as a competent writer than he is interested in actually getting his point across. He's like those people who all know who intentionally use obscure words in public for the acclaim of getting to explain the meaning. It's sometimes a fun diversion to decipher his deceptively coherent writing, but I wouldn't want a whole novel worth.
Of course, that's just my opinion. I personally dislike the Sand and Tithe strips precisely because his vague and disconnected style is even more apparent in those strips.