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[East Asia] - Shinzo Abe shot, killed

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    tinwhiskerstinwhiskers Registered User regular
    Too bad there are no other places for those sailors to go blow their pay on cheap booze and relaxation services in Asia.

    6ylyzxlir2dz.png
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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    Too bad there are no other places for those sailors to go blow their pay on cheap booze and relaxation services in Asia.

    While there's plenty of places for that, the hundreds of family members that were likely planning to meet them in HK are pretty much screwed as far as cost of plane tickets go.

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    Panda4YouPanda4You Registered User regular
    edited April 2016
    Unfortunate and shitty as that is for the concerned individuals, they mean fuck-all in the grander scale of international relations.

    Panda4You on
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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    O...kay? Sorry I even mentioned them?

    The closure itself is still costly to the U.S. since changing plans for a carrier are never cheap. China will miss out on the local economic boost too as mentioned though I'm sure they're aware. I imagine they're more concerned with demonstrating they can tell a super power to piss off when they want.

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    RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    O...kay? Sorry I even mentioned them?

    The closure itself is still costly to the U.S. since changing plans for a carrier are never cheap. China will miss out on the local economic boost too as mentioned though I'm sure they're aware. I imagine they're more concerned with demonstrating they can tell a super power to piss off when they want.

    It would be hilarious if Vietnam said "Okay, come dock here."

    HILARIOUS.

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    MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Rchanen wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    O...kay? Sorry I even mentioned them?

    The closure itself is still costly to the U.S. since changing plans for a carrier are never cheap. China will miss out on the local economic boost too as mentioned though I'm sure they're aware. I imagine they're more concerned with demonstrating they can tell a super power to piss off when they want.

    It would be hilarious if Vietnam said "Okay, come dock here."

    HILARIOUS.

    Probably redirect to Taiwan is my guess. That is a nice middle finger to China and probably the most minimal cost for the US. Vietnam would be a trip.

    u7stthr17eud.png
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    CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Rchanen wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    O...kay? Sorry I even mentioned them?

    The closure itself is still costly to the U.S. since changing plans for a carrier are never cheap. China will miss out on the local economic boost too as mentioned though I'm sure they're aware. I imagine they're more concerned with demonstrating they can tell a super power to piss off when they want.

    It would be hilarious if Vietnam said "Okay, come dock here."

    HILARIOUS.

    Probably redirect to Taiwan is my guess. That is a nice middle finger to China and probably the most minimal cost for the US. Vietnam would be a trip.

    Thats a shame, Vietnam has really, really, really, really good coffee.

    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
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    KrieghundKrieghund Registered User regular
    And get some authentic pho. Mmmmm, pho is so good.

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    KaputaKaputa Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
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    JragghenJragghen Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
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    MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    John Oliver was all over Asia yesterday.

    I would say the Philippine piece is a fantastic bit of wtf if you have been following the election there.

    The North Korea bit though was comedy on its own.

    https://youtu.be/KTY_P3ecPyc

    u7stthr17eud.png
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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/10/asia/north-korea-ripley-workers-party-congress/

    So North Korea allowed a film crew into the congress very briefly, including Kim wearing a very western style suit

    While guessing exactly what that's a signal of is a bit of a mystery to me, it's definitely a political message of some kind.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    CauldCauld Registered User regular
    It's the 50th anniversary of the Cultural Revolution in China. There's some good articles in the NYtimes about it:

    China's Cultural Revolution Explained
    Readers Respond: The Cultural Revolution

    I always had vauge ideas about what had happened, but that NYT explanation really helped me understand the basics better. Reading about it more, I really think it helps me understand modern China better.

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    AngelHedgieAngelHedgie Registered User regular
    XBL: Nox Aeternum / PSN: NoxAeternum / NN:NoxAeternum / Steam: noxaeternum
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    MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Cauld wrote: »
    It's the 50th anniversary of the Cultural Revolution in China. There's some good articles in the NYtimes about it:

    China's Cultural Revolution Explained
    Readers Respond: The Cultural Revolution

    I always had vauge ideas about what had happened, but that NYT explanation really helped me understand the basics better. Reading about it more, I really think it helps me understand modern China better.

    There are some good books out there about the Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward and their long last effects on the Chinese when it comes to development and education. I can't remember the names off the top of my head because I am a zombie today at work but I will try to find them again when I get home.

    In general though it was pretty devastating to the intellectual class and much of those who were adolescents in both periods.

    u7stthr17eud.png
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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    Youtube has PBS's China: A Century of Revolution, which has a pretty good long section on the Cultural Revolution

    The whole documentary is great, a bunch of fascinating interviews

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Taiwan Inaugurates first Female President

    In less depressing news Taiwan has the first Asian leader who is a woman and not related to a previous leader. She has a tough balancing act as her party is the de-facto independence party but she must keep good or at least stable relations with Beijing not to destroy the Taiwanese economy.

    u7stthr17eud.png
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    JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    Annnnnd Vietnam can now but some sweet, sweet US military hardware.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36356695

    China's gotta be pissed.

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    RchanenRchanen Registered User regular
    Annnnnd Vietnam can now but some sweet, sweet US military hardware.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36356695

    China's gotta be pissed.

    More than that. Vietnam and the US are moving into closer alignment. China is NOT going to be happy to be part of encirclement II electric boogaloo.

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    ShadowfireShadowfire Vermont, in the middle of nowhereRegistered User regular
    Annnnnd Vietnam can now but some sweet, sweet US military hardware.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36356695

    China's gotta be pissed.

    Obama has also raised concerns about human rights violations in Vietnam.

    Not that China cares about such things. :rotate:

    WiiU: Windrunner ; Guild Wars 2: Shadowfire.3940 ; PSN: Bradcopter
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    CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    A bad egg in Okinawa embarrasses the armed forces by association. Again.

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/28/us-military-imposes-restrictions-on-okinawa-troops-after

    Contractors overseas think they're off the hook from the restrictions imposed upon active duty forces there, and shit like this happens.

    Cantido on
    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
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    FencingsaxFencingsax It is difficult to get a man to understand, when his salary depends upon his not understanding GNU Terry PratchettRegistered User regular
    Murdering a woman is a little more serious than just slipping of the leash.

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    DarkPrimusDarkPrimus Registered User regular
    edited May 2016
    Cantido wrote: »
    A bad egg in Okinawa embarrasses the armed forces by association. Again.

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/28/us-military-imposes-restrictions-on-okinawa-troops-after

    Contractors overseas think they're off the hook from the restrictions imposed upon active duty forces there, and shit like this happens.

    What restriction did he violate?

    EDIT: Drinking alcohol off-base is what the article implies, but it's not entirely clear.

    DarkPrimus on
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    MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Cantido wrote: »
    A bad egg in Okinawa embarrasses the armed forces by association. Again.

    http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/28/us-military-imposes-restrictions-on-okinawa-troops-after

    Contractors overseas think they're off the hook from the restrictions imposed upon active duty forces there, and shit like this happens.

    This is more than embarrassing. This is actually a pretty major incident. And Abe even brought it up during a public speech standing next to Obama.

    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/shinzo-abe-scolds-obama-223566

    This isn't some simple look a contractor went out after curfew thing.

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    cckerberoscckerberos Registered User regular
    He was out of the service, married to a Japanese national, and most likely had permanent residency. Why would base restrictions have applied to him?

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    JusticeforPlutoJusticeforPluto Registered User regular
    North Korea: Kim Jong-un's aunt 'lives American Dream' - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36404908

    So one of Kim's aunts may be living in New York, owning her own business and sending her children to school. She seems very happy about her life after her defection.

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    DarlanDarlan Registered User regular
    That incident in Japan does make me wonder how much Japanese really want American service men there--and certainly we don't want our folks in the line of fire in defense of people who don't want them there, so...is it pretty much just an exchange of "we want easy access near China for surveillance" and "we'd rather spend less on defense" at this point?

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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    Darlan wrote: »
    That incident in Japan does make me wonder how much Japanese really want American service men there--and certainly we don't want our folks in the line of fire in defense of people who don't want them there, so...is it pretty much just an exchange of "we want easy access near China for surveillance" and "we'd rather spend less on defense" at this point?

    Well, Okinawans have opposed the base there for a long time, especially since the mid '90s. This incident needs to be understood more in the context that this is the latest of a long series of similar sorts of crimes. And for Okinawans, who are only sorta kinda part of "proper" Japan, it's also a domestic representation issue, that the Japanese government wants the benefits of having a US military base but keeps them in Okinawa instead of on the home islands so they don't have to deal with those problems.

    The Japanese population as a whole is a lot more supportive, and generally understands the benefits of it, but, y'know, NIMBY.

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
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    MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
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    CantidoCantido Registered User regular
    edited June 2016
    Labelling this one under Holy Shit.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/09/propaganda-film-project-backfires-on-north-korea/

    A Russian filmmaker hooks up North Korea by filming a propaganda film inside NK to show how its a Utopia. The project was scrapped, but the camera was left running in between shots and they got to leave with the footage. It is now a disturbing documentary called Under the Sun.

    People in NK are probably being executed for this.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QRFx5pXb_M

    Cantido on
    3DS Friendcode 5413-1311-3767
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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited June 2016
    Cantido wrote: »
    Labelling this one under Holy Shit.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/09/propaganda-film-project-backfires-on-north-korea/

    A Russian filmmaker hooks up North Korea by filming a propaganda film inside NK to show how its a Utopia. The project was scrapped, but the camera was left running in between shots and they got to leave with the footage. It is now a disturbing documentary called Under the Sun.

    People in NK are probably being executed for this.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QRFx5pXb_M

    Yeah, crazy shit. I've heard some were hoping that Mansky would get it shown in the Moscow Jewish Film Festival (Mansky is a Ukrainian Jew). but that was probably wildly optimistic (and bad timing too), but it's been shown in Talinin and New York, so it'll probably keep picking up steam. Mansky's been really famous for his film-making in the Ukrainian Civil War and for being one of the signatories on the on the Kino Soyuz cinema union's letter critical of the Russian intervention there--he's really one of the most famous documentarians there is.
    Kana wrote: »
    Darlan wrote: »
    That incident in Japan does make me wonder how much Japanese really want American service men there--and certainly we don't want our folks in the line of fire in defense of people who don't want them there, so...is it pretty much just an exchange of "we want easy access near China for surveillance" and "we'd rather spend less on defense" at this point?

    Well, Okinawans have opposed the base there for a long time, especially since the mid '90s. This incident needs to be understood more in the context that this is the latest of a long series of similar sorts of crimes. And for Okinawans, who are only sorta kinda part of "proper" Japan, it's also a domestic representation issue, that the Japanese government wants the benefits of having a US military base but keeps them in Okinawa instead of on the home islands so they don't have to deal with those problems.

    The Japanese population as a whole is a lot more supportive, and generally understands the benefits of it, but, y'know, NIMBY.

    Indeed. Naturally, especially for the Japanese in Okinawa (for simplicity sake, let's say non-Ryukyuan, but it's more complex than that) the base is also exceedingly unpopular for the same domestic pressures, disturbances, and associated reasons. And of course, the issue gets swept up into international politics throughout the country--a few years back it became particularly common rhetorically for pro-base Japanese to accuse anti-base Japanese of being "useful idiots" of Beijing, and there are very strong political lobbies for either side from what I understand. It also goes towards the broader matter of PM Abe's push towards military normalization in Japan, which is naturally a toxic issue in South Korea and China.

    The debate has gone on for decades--before the Third Gulf War, it was the largest overseas posting of American troops after all. In Taiwan, our American troops left in 1979, with an understandably mixed reputation in the martial law period.

    Segue into a different topic--last weekend, former-President Ma Ying-Jeou was barred from travelling to Hong Kong to attend a ­Society of Publishers in Asia ceremony based on a 2003 law that puts a three-year constraint on high officials after they leave office. It's been somewhat controversial, and naturally Mr. Ma's colleagues and the KMT have accused the DPP of acting in a vindictive manner, while Pres. Tsai's office has cited Mr. Ma's possession of confidential information and fears over its security. I haven't had a chance to call home and ask around, but I believe the decision from the President's Office was seen as generally reasonable in Taiwan, though is more widely criticized in Hong Kong, as Mr. Ma was not just a member of the society, but scheduled to speak at the event.

    It could end up discarded by the news cycle in a few weeks of course.

    Synthesis on
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    oldmankenoldmanken Registered User regular
    Just going to pop in with a recommendation for the following book on North Korea, North Korea Confidential by Daniel Tudor:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00R1W9OPM/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?qid=1465931172&sr=1-2&pi=SY200_QL40&keywords=Daniel+Tudor&dpPl=1&dpID=51z1w3sfF5L&ref=plSrch

    A lot of the books (and films) we see are rightly about the government and the oppression of the people, but I really appreciate this picture as well. Especially illustrative of how things are changing, and how the famine really weakened the regime.

    Tudor's other book on South Korea, Korea: The Impossible Country is also really enjoyable, and really got my nostalgia's tingling. :)

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    SynthesisSynthesis Honda Today! Registered User regular
    edited June 2016
    Cantido wrote: »
    Mazzyx wrote: »
    Rchanen wrote: »
    Quid wrote: »
    O...kay? Sorry I even mentioned them?

    The closure itself is still costly to the U.S. since changing plans for a carrier are never cheap. China will miss out on the local economic boost too as mentioned though I'm sure they're aware. I imagine they're more concerned with demonstrating they can tell a super power to piss off when they want.

    It would be hilarious if Vietnam said "Okay, come dock here."

    HILARIOUS.

    Probably redirect to Taiwan is my guess. That is a nice middle finger to China and probably the most minimal cost for the US. Vietnam would be a trip.

    Thats a shame, Vietnam has really, really, really, really good coffee.

    Belatedly, American ships don't go make port calls Taiwan....or at least not since 1979. But I don't know anything about American navy matters.

    Maybe Vietnam is a better choice, I'm sure their coffee is better. 8-)

    Synthesis on
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    Captain MarcusCaptain Marcus now arrives the hour of actionRegistered User regular
    Chinese spy ship enters Japanese territorial waters while following a U.S.-India-Japanese naval drill
    A Chinese navy reconnaissance vessel entered Japanese territorial waters near Kuchinoerabu Island off Kagoshima Prefecture early Wednesday morning — the first time since 2004 that a Chinese military ship has done so.
    n-chinaship-g-20160616.jpg

    It is annoying that the Chinese are permitted to follow our ships and take notes and scan everything but there is nothing in international law that forbids it. International law definitely forbids entering territorial waters for intelligence-gathering purposes, but as China has flipped international law the bird on everything from "don't steal our fish" to "no, you can't build artificial islands and then claim the ocean around them" I'm not sure what Japan could do to stop them. It's not like they'd pay a fine.

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    QuidQuid Definitely not a banana Registered User regular
    edited June 2016
    It's the Chinese government essentially throwing a tantrum.

    Japan's option is the same as most countries when this happens: Denounce it and move on.

    Quid on
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    Captain MarcusCaptain Marcus now arrives the hour of actionRegistered User regular
    Quid wrote: »
    It's the Chinese government essentially throwing a tantrum.

    Japan's option is the same as most countries when this happens: Denounce it and move on.
    Hypothetically speaking, what are Japan's options if the Chinese park a spy ship offshore the way they put an oil rig in Vietnam's claim?

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    MazzyxMazzyx Comedy Gold Registered User regular
    Chinese spy ship enters Japanese territorial waters while following a U.S.-India-Japanese naval drill
    A Chinese navy reconnaissance vessel entered Japanese territorial waters near Kuchinoerabu Island off Kagoshima Prefecture early Wednesday morning — the first time since 2004 that a Chinese military ship has done so.
    n-chinaship-g-20160616.jpg

    It is annoying that the Chinese are permitted to follow our ships and take notes and scan everything but there is nothing in international law that forbids it. International law definitely forbids entering territorial waters for intelligence-gathering purposes, but as China has flipped international law the bird on everything from "don't steal our fish" to "no, you can't build artificial islands and then claim the ocean around them" I'm not sure what Japan could do to stop them. It's not like they'd pay a fine.

    Actually this is not uncommon for China.

    Usually the Japanese Navy will come up and surround the ship in the waters if they can. Sometimes they make it surrender, you get an incident. China makes grumbling noises. Japan returns the crew. Other times it is a pissing contest.

    Japan's territorial waters are not, make a complaint to UNCLOS but more bring in the coast guard levels. Especially with China or North Korean vessels.

    Also because Japan's fleet would put up a hell of a fight verse China's so they are pretty happy showing off.

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    KanaKana Registered User regular
    Related to that, this guy's a former army intelligence officer who's now doing a fellowship at the University of Washington. This is one of his presentations on the Japanese amphibious capabilities and how it affects East Asian regional politics.

    https://youtu.be/fFW_glo6zkQ?t=6m2s

    A trap is for fish: when you've got the fish, you can forget the trap. A snare is for rabbits: when you've got the rabbit, you can forget the snare. Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words.
This discussion has been closed.