There's a lot of stuff that hinders backers giving accurate feedback and obsidian is fully aware of. Imo, they went a bit too early with the beta.
I take this back. Beta was worth it for Schadenfreude alone (I'm a bad person )
Currently Obsidian are frauds, in risk of ruining THEIR ENTIRE REPUTATION IF THEY DON'T DO X (and generally how dare this isn't an exact copy of the IE games), Sawyer is a living monster who despies the IWD series of all things and so on.
Also a big amount of people that don't realize what exactly beta means (overlap with first crowd), but that was to be expected.
There's lots of great community stuff as well though including people who aren't happy with it, but provide very well thought of bug reports as to why (usually don't overlap with the first crowd). Some really great constructive critisism there.
are people really complaining? from what i've seen of the beta stuff looks good, ignoring the bugs because the word beta means beta.
No I won't give it a try. Cause I've paid my money for a game that should be successor of IE games and that would use best mechanics from 3 of them (BG, IWD and PST). I haven't paid my money for experimentation and 'giving a try'.
Yes, I understand that this guy (J.S. Sawyer, if I remember his second name correctly) as a game designer likes to try new mechanics, likes to experiment. Fine. Go to publisher and ask their money for new 'experimental, revolutionary RPG'. No. He went to me. And said: "Hamster! I need you money to create successor for IE games that you like so much! Give me you money, hamster, and I will do a game that will include exploration as in BG, combat as in IWD and story as in PST."
BG share the same combat of IWD so if he despise (and he plainly admit it that he would save basicaly nothing from BG2) he despise both BG and IWD.
And for being completly honest at the moment i do not give a flaming **** about what Sawyer prefer. They had my money because they put baldur's gate,icewind dale and torment in their objective as goal to reach. And what i discover? that the guy who created the game dosen't give a **** about two of the said title. OH ****ING JOY
And sorry i'm literaly too angry with this bastards for having a civil discussion.
For reference. Here's what Sawyer actually said about IE combat (And was pointed out to the same guy who ignored it)
* Tactical combat. I disliked some of the specific rules or rule implementations, but I always enjoyed the tactical combat in the BG and IWD games. I loved designing it and I loved playing it. In particular, "symmetrical" battles with parties or other class/level characters were a lot of fun. I like the more scripted feeling of those fights even if I didn't like the rock/paper/scissors nature of some of the hard counters. I enjoy turn-based combat a lot, but I had already been introduced to RTwP 6 years before BG, so I also enjoyed/had no problem with BG's fundamental style of RPG combat.
In general I agree with this sentiment, but I could also speculate that the quotes posted above were from people whose native language is not English... so it's entirely possible they didn't translate Sawyer's words entirely correctly, and lost their minds over it. This is not a defense of their intelligence, because a smart and reasonable person would have at least tried to get some clarification or listened to further explanations when they were offered, but I'll at least offer that small caveat.
In the end, those people don't matter. The game will almost certainly be amazing from all reports.
I'm gonna go with non English speaker, still, their English is better than my take on whatever their first language is. Does he actually say what his gripe is with the combat? It looked pretty spot on with what we got before.
the combat in the beta is kinda screwy in terms of balance but it's hard to tell if that's the underlying system or if it's confounded by all the weird save/load glitches breaking intended behaviors
I'm gonna go with non English speaker, still, their English is better than my take on whatever their first language is. Does he actually say what his gripe is with the combat? It looked pretty spot on with what we got before.
Not IE, basically. No kill xp as well.
And the guy behind the first quote understands english very well (Dude also tweets complaints). Apparently thats enough to insult developers, scream fraud and feel like they were robbed. Despite the fact that all this info wasn't hidden and brought up multiple times during development.
For thoughts on beta I recommend the following video. It's actually about early releases (alphas) but I think it just as easily applies to betas. It's actually an Extra Credits video and they use to be on PATV.
Tried out a monk last night just to see what's up. I actually managed to solo a bunch of mobs. Thinking this might be my new favorite class, assuming it doesn't get nerfed. Seriously, I punched a lion to death! How great is that?
That Extra Credits video sums me up to a T. I get all excited about a game and can't help but jump on the early access, and then it's (naturally) unfinished, and I play it for a bit, and just don't ever come back to it.
74k backers, people complain about anything. Even if it was a scam for Obsidian to make a Baldurs Gate style farmville (Godus style) there's not much that guy can do.
Yeah you'll drive yourself crazy if you care about what most people on the internet have to say. These are people who are usually both insane and have absolutely no life.
Tried out a monk last night just to see what's up. I actually managed to solo a bunch of mobs. Thinking this might be my new favorite class, assuming it doesn't get nerfed. Seriously, I punched a lion to death! How great is that?
I don't know, is the lion endangered? Does it have a family? Is it gainfully employed in the service industry, and working to make sure that its cubs have opportunities that it didn't have, like not getting punched by some monk?
Just kidding, I love monks, and punching various fictional creatures.
Tried out a monk last night just to see what's up. I actually managed to solo a bunch of mobs. Thinking this might be my new favorite class, assuming it doesn't get nerfed. Seriously, I punched a lion to death! How great is that?
I don't know, is the lion endangered? Does it have a family? Is it gainfully employed in the service industry, and working to make sure that its cubs have opportunities that it didn't have, like not getting punched by some monk?
Just kidding, I love monks, and punching various fictional creatures.
I'm at least 90% sure that lions are entirely non-fictional.
Tried out a monk last night just to see what's up. I actually managed to solo a bunch of mobs. Thinking this might be my new favorite class, assuming it doesn't get nerfed. Seriously, I punched a lion to death! How great is that?
I don't know, is the lion endangered? Does it have a family? Is it gainfully employed in the service industry, and working to make sure that its cubs have opportunities that it didn't have, like not getting punched by some monk?
Just kidding, I love monks, and punching various fictional creatures.
I'm at least 90% sure that lions are entirely non-fictional.
Maybe 80%.
Have you ever had a conversation with a lion? If so, what did you talk about?
Have you ever punched a lion in the face? How did he or she respond to this action?
those complaints are echoes of fallout fans when they saw Fallout 3 (when it turns out their only leg to stand on was that it wasn't actually a sequel to Fallout 2)
because Fallout 2 had such marvelous combat how dare they change it
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those complaints are echoes of fallout fans when they saw Fallout 3 (when it turns out their only leg to stand on was that it wasn't actually a sequel to Fallout 2)
because Fallout 2 had such marvelous combat how dare they change it
Tried out a monk last night just to see what's up. I actually managed to solo a bunch of mobs. Thinking this might be my new favorite class, assuming it doesn't get nerfed. Seriously, I punched a lion to death! How great is that?
I don't know, is the lion endangered? Does it have a family? Is it gainfully employed in the service industry, and working to make sure that its cubs have opportunities that it didn't have, like not getting punched by some monk?
Just kidding, I love monks, and punching various fictional creatures.
I'm at least 90% sure that lions are entirely non-fictional.
Maybe 80%.
Lions aren't real. They're a myth conjured up by the government to frighten us and keep us from leaving our urban prisons!
those complaints are echoes of fallout fans when they saw Fallout 3 (when it turns out their only leg to stand on was that it wasn't actually a sequel to Fallout 2)
That was not my only problem with Fallout 3. But let's not derail this thread.
I just had an idea - if you try to target an AOE ability so far away from the character that he/she needs to move before casting, the target circle cursor turns yellow. If provoking disengagement attacks, or moving you into the engagement radius of a new enemy, it turns red red. That isn't already in the game, right?
Another idea - someone on RPGCodex (I think) mentioned starting attributes defaulting to 10 rather than 3. You will still have points over and allocate the same number of attributes as now, but you will understand that you go below average if you start clicking the minus button. Currently some just jack their primary stat(s) to max and leave the rest at 3. My continuation of this idea: If you go below average you have a logarithmically increasing penalty (really small target areas, miniscule damage, really few hitpoints etc) to prevent dump stats. The attribute number and the minus button should turn yellow, and then red if you continue, with a tooltip that explains that are potentially getting into a really problematic character build. Or would that push everyone too firmly into always creating jack-of-all-trades characters? Balancing is hard!
those complaints are echoes of fallout fans when they saw Fallout 3 (when it turns out their only leg to stand on was that it wasn't actually a sequel to Fallout 2)
That was not my only problem with Fallout 3. But let's not derail this thread.
I just had an idea - if you try to target an AOE ability so far away from the character that he/she needs to move before casting, the target circle cursor turns yellow. If provoking disengagement attacks, it's red. That isn't already in the game, right?
Another idea - someone on RPGCodex (I think) mentioned starting attributes defaulting to 10 rather than 3. You will still have points over and allocate the same number of attributes as now, but you will understand that you go below average if you start clicking the minus button. Currently some just jack their primary stat(s) to max and leave the rest at 3. My continuation of this idea: If you go below average you have a logarithmically increasing penalty (really small target areas, miniscule damage, really few hitpoints etc) to prevent dump stats. The attribute number and the minus button should turn yellow and then red with a tooltip that explains that are potentially getting into a really problematic character build. Or would that push everyone too firmly into always creating jack-of-all-trades characters? Balancing is hard!
This would also enable sniper strike fireballs no more friendly fire
You don't have to worry about friendly fire if your mage is a muscle wizard up in melee. Especially since there's a lot of spells that a) come out from the caster's position and b) they can aim the center of a targeted aoe further back as to not hit allies.
Heavy armored, high con, high might, and smashing things with melee spells.
Nothing about a Wizard in this game and stat system says they have to be in the back.
As long as they have something that specifies that an average ability score is like a 9-12, I think starting with a 3 is probably fine. I do agree, starting at 10 and letting them subtract probably makes more sense, but then you might have people who don't realize they can subtract.
However, I think they should just add descriptors if you have your stats that low.
3 Strength - Picking up anything larger than a grain of sand and you'll break your back.
3 Con - Don't sneeze or you'll die.
3 Dex - Trying to stand up may result in you falling to your death.
3 Int - You're an idiot. Try to remember to keep breathing.
3 Wis - I've got this great plot of land in the Bahamas to sell you.
3 Cha - You have the social graces of a rabid lion.
I just lol at the people saying this is too modernized or too buggy. To the first point, modernization is good, modernize it more if anything. The less time I spend fiddling with menus the more time I spend having fun. I'm one of those heathens who saw ME2 as an improvement over ME1 in every way outside of Mako exploration, though.
As far as the second... Did they even play New Vegas?
I just lol at the people saying this is too modernized or too buggy. To the first point, modernization is good, modernize it more if anything. The less time I spend fiddling with menus the more time I spend having fun. I'm one of those heathens who saw ME2 as an improvement over ME1 in every way outside of Mako exploration, though.
As far as the second... Did they even play New Vegas?
The ME1 inventory was so bad that removing it was an improvement in ME2 :P
The inventory UI looked great from the videos/screenshots. Only the spell casting UI looked as though it could somehow be improved but I'm not sure how exactly.
Beta seems really hard. Was playing on easy with my cipher and got murdered by some beetles. I normally play crpgs for the story so combat ain't exactly my thing. Anyone else think it's too difficult? Or do I just suck?
Beta seems really hard. Was playing on easy with my cipher and got murdered by some beetles. I normally play crpgs for the story so combat ain't exactly my thing. Anyone else think it's too difficult? Or do I just suck?
Theres lots of problems with the combat currently due to nothing really being adjusted, bugs and a lack of feedback.
Atm, just use pause or slow motion a lot and micromanage.
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As long as they have something that specifies that an average ability score is like a 9-12, I think starting with a 3 is probably fine. I do agree, starting at 10 and letting them subtract probably makes more sense, but then you might have people who don't realize they can subtract.
However, I think they should just add descriptors if you have your stats that low.
I'm trying to figure out what the general upper limit for conversation checks might be, because I worry about that maaaaybe a bit too much. The highest you can get an attribute appears to be 18, or 20 if you stack racial/background bonuses. You can't increase attributes on level up, so presumably the checks in the beginning of the game are close numerically to the checks towards the end. The intro previews' highest checks were at 15, and the highest check I've seen in the beta is 16 (and is a fairly impressive action), so most of them might not go above that, but I haven't dug too deep on this.
Beta seems really hard. Was playing on easy with my cipher and got murdered by some beetles. I normally play crpgs for the story so combat ain't exactly my thing. Anyone else think it's too difficult? Or do I just suck?
Same thing happened to me, it should be sorted out if they ever patch the beta.
@C2B any word on when the next patch is? I know my posts have been mostly negative but I'm digging what's been provided so far. This game is going to be damn sexy once it's been fully realized.
Posts
I take this back. Beta was worth it for Schadenfreude alone (I'm a bad person
Currently Obsidian are frauds, in risk of ruining THEIR ENTIRE REPUTATION IF THEY DON'T DO X (and generally how dare this isn't an exact copy of the IE games), Sawyer is a living monster who despies the IWD series of all things and so on.
Also a big amount of people that don't realize what exactly beta means (overlap with first crowd), but that was to be expected.
There's lots of great community stuff as well though including people who aren't happy with it, but provide very well thought of bug reports as to why (usually don't overlap with the first crowd). Some really great constructive critisism there.
For reference. Here's what Sawyer actually said about IE combat (And was pointed out to the same guy who ignored it)
In general I agree with this sentiment, but I could also speculate that the quotes posted above were from people whose native language is not English... so it's entirely possible they didn't translate Sawyer's words entirely correctly, and lost their minds over it. This is not a defense of their intelligence, because a smart and reasonable person would have at least tried to get some clarification or listened to further explanations when they were offered, but I'll at least offer that small caveat.
In the end, those people don't matter. The game will almost certainly be amazing from all reports.
Not IE, basically. No kill xp as well.
And the guy behind the first quote understands english very well (Dude also tweets complaints). Apparently thats enough to insult developers, scream fraud and feel like they were robbed. Despite the fact that all this info wasn't hidden and brought up multiple times during development.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CmLz00L6CmY
3DS FC: 5086-1134-6451
Shiny Code: 3837
I don't know, is the lion endangered? Does it have a family? Is it gainfully employed in the service industry, and working to make sure that its cubs have opportunities that it didn't have, like not getting punched by some monk?
Maybe 80%.
Have you ever had a conversation with a lion? If so, what did you talk about?
Have you ever punched a lion in the face? How did he or she respond to this action?
because Fallout 2 had such marvelous combat how dare they change it
I... I liked the combat in fallout 2.
Lions aren't real. They're a myth conjured up by the government to frighten us and keep us from leaving our urban prisons!
That was not my only problem with Fallout 3. But let's not derail this thread.
I just had an idea - if you try to target an AOE ability so far away from the character that he/she needs to move before casting, the target circle cursor turns yellow. If provoking disengagement attacks, or moving you into the engagement radius of a new enemy, it turns red red. That isn't already in the game, right?
Another idea - someone on RPGCodex (I think) mentioned starting attributes defaulting to 10 rather than 3. You will still have points over and allocate the same number of attributes as now, but you will understand that you go below average if you start clicking the minus button. Currently some just jack their primary stat(s) to max and leave the rest at 3. My continuation of this idea: If you go below average you have a logarithmically increasing penalty (really small target areas, miniscule damage, really few hitpoints etc) to prevent dump stats. The attribute number and the minus button should turn yellow, and then red if you continue, with a tooltip that explains that are potentially getting into a really problematic character build. Or would that push everyone too firmly into always creating jack-of-all-trades characters? Balancing is hard!
This would also enable sniper strike fireballs
Heavy armored, high con, high might, and smashing things with melee spells.
Nothing about a Wizard in this game and stat system says they have to be in the back.
// Switch: SW-5306-0651-6424 //
However, I think they should just add descriptors if you have your stats that low.
3 Strength - Picking up anything larger than a grain of sand and you'll break your back.
3 Con - Don't sneeze or you'll die.
3 Dex - Trying to stand up may result in you falling to your death.
3 Int - You're an idiot. Try to remember to keep breathing.
3 Wis - I've got this great plot of land in the Bahamas to sell you.
3 Cha - You have the social graces of a rabid lion.
Battlenet ID: MildC#11186 - If I'm in the game, send me an invite at anytime and I'll play.
http://kotaku.com/how-to-balance-an-rpg-1625516832
As far as the second... Did they even play New Vegas?
The ME1 inventory was so bad that removing it was an improvement in ME2 :P
The inventory UI looked great from the videos/screenshots. Only the spell casting UI looked as though it could somehow be improved but I'm not sure how exactly.
Theres lots of problems with the combat currently due to nothing really being adjusted, bugs and a lack of feedback.
Atm, just use pause or slow motion a lot and micromanage.
I'm trying to figure out what the general upper limit for conversation checks might be, because I worry about that maaaaybe a bit too much. The highest you can get an attribute appears to be 18, or 20 if you stack racial/background bonuses. You can't increase attributes on level up, so presumably the checks in the beginning of the game are close numerically to the checks towards the end. The intro previews' highest checks were at 15, and the highest check I've seen in the beta is 16 (and is a fairly impressive action), so most of them might not go above that, but I haven't dug too deep on this.
Same thing happened to me, it should be sorted out if they ever patch the beta.
http://www.twitch.tv/twitch/c/5027673
V271
(Worth listening to for Jorge's voice alone