Hmm... That would almost make it worth having to interact with the Tory buffoon! (True story: as part of my last job, I once found myself in a restaurant in the Swiss mountains having a fondue - as one does - and in walk Boris, David Cameron and Rebekah Brooks. One of the Brits I was with was very tempted to walk over to their table and stab the lot with their own fondue forks.)
Back on the topic of VR: I'm in two minds about what the Valve announcement could mean for Oculus Rift. On the one hand I want them to start producing the CV only once it works well enough rather than have to rush to market in order not to come in second, but I also think a bit of pressure and competition could keep the OR from being stuck in development hell for another two years. There'll never be a perfect moment to start producing the consumer version.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I could be wrong but I can imagine the target market for valve's is potentially different to that of the Rift.
Valve look to be creating an enthusiast model, dual screens, potentially wireless, lots of other stuff. I believe the major cost within the Rift is still the screen (could be mistaken).
There's no way the valve/HTC model is going to be as cheap as the Rift, not unless they're selling at/below cost.
I'll be interested to see how they're driving it, using two separate HDMI cables? One HDMI cable so the image is sent as per the rift but then split by the headset on to each screen (that'd help maintain compatibility with existing software)?
Oh and @Thirith , sorry, North of England is pretty much as far as it goes!
I could be wrong but I can imagine the target market for valve's is potentially different to that of the Rift.
Valve look to be creating an enthusiast model, dual screens, potentially wireless, lots of other stuff. I believe the major cost within the Rift is still the screen (could be mistaken).
There's no way the valve/HTC model is going to be as cheap as the Rift, not unless they're selling at/below cost.
I'll be interested to see how they're driving it, using two separate HDMI cables? One HDMI cable so the image is sent as per the rift but then split by the headset on to each screen (that'd help maintain compatibility with existing software)?
Oh and @Thirith , sorry, North of England is pretty much as far as it goes!
I know it's early, but are is there any info about what kind of setup the Vive needs? As in, number of sensors, placement, that sort of thing?
Er, aren't the sensors built into the headset? That's what all the dimples are. And the laser on the front also tracks head position, replacing the need for a camera to determine your head position. Which is pretty ingenious, if that's how it actually works and I'm not making all of this up.
It looks to me you just wear the thing, no external sensors needed.
I think it'll become popular for none-gaming purposes too.
Eg Virtual tours in museums.
Imagine walking around a museum and being shown artifacts from a certain era, then being taken in to a room with a few Rifts and a guide and then putting the headset on for a (carefully constructed so as not to be vomit-inducing) guided virtual tour around that actual era, with all the stuff you've just seen in it's rightful place.
The tech could be repurposed in to some virtual rides too, timing what's going on in the headset with hydrolic motions.
It's also a virtual cinema, if they built that in to the headset itself without needing a PC I can see that getting some use. Having your own Imax screen in your house is pretty awesome (if we're being picky you'd lack the definition and quality of a true cinema screen). They were talking about an Android OS powering the headset for stuff like that.
There are some movies already being produced (admittedly low budget) natively for the Rift, we've had sporting events filmed to be Rift compatible, anything like that. Again this could be provided through a native Android OS without the need for a PC. People are reluctant to wear 3D glasses, sure, but with some demo stations it could quite easily be shown how different this tech is to 3D.
Then you have simple games, not big sprawling epics like we're used to. Just chess. Being able to look down at the chess board, lean over it, check your moves.
Some simple games like that could really sell it.
If they can manage to build in an interface, potentially with a remote control, that allows people easy access to a wide range of content that works perfectly (which you can't guarantee with a PC, but could with a built in OS) AND if they can demonstrate these units to people in retail outlets then I can see them taking off similar to the Wii. A simple idea with a couple of well executed demonstrations.
If it remains just a headset you plug in to your PC, it'll be niche.
If it's an entertainment device that ALSO plugs in to your PC, I think that'll sell.
(That said the Wii was ONLY £180ish.)
You forgot porn.
Seriously, that's what decided VHS vs Beta, and I think will be a driving force behind sales.
...well, it's certainly proof of concept, but here's hoping they're shooting for something much more reasonable for normal folks to put together.
The Vibe won't require a room filled with QR codes on the walls
Nobody is saying it would be that extreme, but there's no reason to say it wouldn't possibly require some kind of base station or something like the Sixense/Razer Hydra/Whatever it is now.
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I think it'll become popular for none-gaming purposes too.
Eg Virtual tours in museums.
Imagine walking around a museum and being shown artifacts from a certain era, then being taken in to a room with a few Rifts and a guide and then putting the headset on for a (carefully constructed so as not to be vomit-inducing) guided virtual tour around that actual era, with all the stuff you've just seen in it's rightful place.
The tech could be repurposed in to some virtual rides too, timing what's going on in the headset with hydrolic motions.
It's also a virtual cinema, if they built that in to the headset itself without needing a PC I can see that getting some use. Having your own Imax screen in your house is pretty awesome (if we're being picky you'd lack the definition and quality of a true cinema screen). They were talking about an Android OS powering the headset for stuff like that.
There are some movies already being produced (admittedly low budget) natively for the Rift, we've had sporting events filmed to be Rift compatible, anything like that. Again this could be provided through a native Android OS without the need for a PC. People are reluctant to wear 3D glasses, sure, but with some demo stations it could quite easily be shown how different this tech is to 3D.
Then you have simple games, not big sprawling epics like we're used to. Just chess. Being able to look down at the chess board, lean over it, check your moves.
Some simple games like that could really sell it.
If they can manage to build in an interface, potentially with a remote control, that allows people easy access to a wide range of content that works perfectly (which you can't guarantee with a PC, but could with a built in OS) AND if they can demonstrate these units to people in retail outlets then I can see them taking off similar to the Wii. A simple idea with a couple of well executed demonstrations.
If it remains just a headset you plug in to your PC, it'll be niche.
If it's an entertainment device that ALSO plugs in to your PC, I think that'll sell.
(That said the Wii was ONLY £180ish.)
You forgot porn.
Seriously, that's what decided VHS vs Beta, and I think will be a driving force behind sales.
Ehhhhhhhh
The porn industry backed HD-DVD.
I don't think porn has nearly as much influence over technology as people seem to think.
Professional porn is a dying industry, but this is hardly the place to discuss that. Besides, there's already VR porn out there. My wife tried it, she was confused at looking down and having a dick. I also tried the reverse and was indeed confused to have a vagina.
But yes, I imagine sex stuff will probably help a bit.
I think it'll become popular for none-gaming purposes too.
Eg Virtual tours in museums.
Imagine walking around a museum and being shown artifacts from a certain era, then being taken in to a room with a few Rifts and a guide and then putting the headset on for a (carefully constructed so as not to be vomit-inducing) guided virtual tour around that actual era, with all the stuff you've just seen in it's rightful place.
The tech could be repurposed in to some virtual rides too, timing what's going on in the headset with hydrolic motions.
It's also a virtual cinema, if they built that in to the headset itself without needing a PC I can see that getting some use. Having your own Imax screen in your house is pretty awesome (if we're being picky you'd lack the definition and quality of a true cinema screen). They were talking about an Android OS powering the headset for stuff like that.
There are some movies already being produced (admittedly low budget) natively for the Rift, we've had sporting events filmed to be Rift compatible, anything like that. Again this could be provided through a native Android OS without the need for a PC. People are reluctant to wear 3D glasses, sure, but with some demo stations it could quite easily be shown how different this tech is to 3D.
Then you have simple games, not big sprawling epics like we're used to. Just chess. Being able to look down at the chess board, lean over it, check your moves.
Some simple games like that could really sell it.
If they can manage to build in an interface, potentially with a remote control, that allows people easy access to a wide range of content that works perfectly (which you can't guarantee with a PC, but could with a built in OS) AND if they can demonstrate these units to people in retail outlets then I can see them taking off similar to the Wii. A simple idea with a couple of well executed demonstrations.
If it remains just a headset you plug in to your PC, it'll be niche.
If it's an entertainment device that ALSO plugs in to your PC, I think that'll sell.
(That said the Wii was ONLY £180ish.)
You forgot porn.
Seriously, that's what decided VHS vs Beta, and I think will be a driving force behind sales.
Ehhhhhhhh
The porn industry backed HD-DVD.
I don't think porn has nearly as much influence over technology as people seem to think.
This is quite different, and even if it is just a novelty at first I think it will sell a few units. But I fully expect to see things marketed to interact with the VR headsets coming from the porn industry. There's been attempts at it already. I can't think of any names off the top of my head, but I have seen various devices meant to mimic what is being done/shown on screen.
Every horny teenage male has thought about it at some point, and there are possibilities we may not even be considering as possibly being real, say the sex in Demolition Man.
I really do think it's going to be a driving force behind sales and don't think it should be discounted. I'm not ashamed to admit it's one of the things I'm really curious about trying out when I do get a device, although I'm going to guess what is out there isn't any good. I've read the stories in this thread, it seems more novelty than anything right now.
He went back to making normal posts a week or two later. He was very clear that his VR stuff survived and it sounds like he's fine. I don't know how his many shelves of gaming relics came out though.
Edit: I really should have put this in my last post, huh?
He went back to making normal posts a week or two later. He was very clear that his VR stuff survived and it sounds like he's fine. I don't know how his many shelves of gaming relics came out though.
Edit: I really should have put this in my last post, huh?
Yeah, I just talked to him on Steam. Apparently his unit was completely untouched even though the rest of the building burned. Didn't lose a thing.
At this point I'm sold on some form of VR, mostly for sim stuff. (Racing and combat flight, basically.) I am really interested in the fact that they want to keep the Rift below a certain price point, but if the REvive is sweet enough I might jump on that even if it's more expensive.
...well, it's certainly proof of concept, but here's hoping they're shooting for something much more reasonable for normal folks to put together.
The Vibe won't require a room filled with QR codes on the walls
Nobody is saying it would be that extreme, but there's no reason to say it wouldn't possibly require some kind of base station or something like the Sixense/Razer Hydra/Whatever it is now.
The news reports of the Vive are talking about a pair of base-stations that track your position in a 15ft by 15ft space. I'm assuming that's what they'll use for tracking.
He went back to making normal posts a week or two later. He was very clear that his VR stuff survived and it sounds like he's fine. I don't know how his many shelves of gaming relics came out though.
Edit: I really should have put this in my last post, huh?
Yeah, I just talked to him on Steam. Apparently his unit was completely untouched even though the rest of the building burned. Didn't lose a thing.
My brain went through at least two interpretations of "unit" before I figured out you meant his apartment/condo.
Has there ever been a Sony/Playstation peripheral that worked (without major fiddling) on PC?
Eurogamer wrote something about interpolated frames to achieve the high framerates; I suspect that this would be a hardware rather than software thing. It also makes me wonder whether the 120Hz thing indeed means the same thing as it would with a regular screen. In any case, wouldn't something like G-Sync be the best option for VR, rather than having a fixed refresh rate that clashes with the rate at which the computer or console delivers new frames?
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
No, they haven't really released anything that works without fiddling, but usually there are people happy to fiddle.
Essentially the visual part of the headset is just going to be a HDMI out (I'm guessing there'll be a pass through to the TV on the final unit thorugh a control box that sits at the back?), that'll work just fine on a PC.
I can't believe for a minute that after it's released there won't be people working on getting it to work with existing VR stuff.
::edit:: I'm not a fan of interpolation on TVs but as a method to remove nausea in a VR game? I can actually see that working pretty well.
Regarding Gsync, I suspect the hardware implementation for this 120hz Sony are using is their version of Gsync. Carmack commented on it for the Rift:
In a recent tweet, co-founder of id software John Carmack said that Nvidia’s newly announced G-Sync technology won’t be supported on any of the display panels that Oculus is currently considering for its VR tech. However, he went on to say that it may eventually influence a wider array of display panels in future, implying that G-Sync may some day be compatible with the Oculus Rift.
The headset would be a hard sell to me if it didn't work in some capacity on PC. Whilst I do most of my gaming on console, and it'd save me money initially to go that way(I'll need a significant update to the PC in addition to a Rift or Vive) I just COULDN'T miss out on what the community will do with this tech on PC.
120hz apparently. The demo they discuss sounds interesting, if it can be used on pc it'll probably be the headset I buy.
2016 release, potentially having a rating system on the store for virtual comfort (I. E how much you'll vomit)
This is prettt cool, but will you need two PS4s to use it? Most console games push their platform pretty hard and are capped at 30fps, you can't just magically go to 120fps by plugging in a headset.
We only played the one demo - London Studio's Heist - and it allowed us to sample what is going to be a crucial element of the Morpheus SDK. The demo itself is visually rich, apparently running at 60fps, but the PS4 uses a form of frame-rate upscaling that Sony calls reprojection in order to give the illusion of a higher frame-rate. The idea is that midway between rendering each native image, the PS4 interpolates an intermediate frame based on revised motion data fed to the console from the HMD. Right now we'd say that the jury's out on the technology - it didn't exactly feel as though it was running at a significantly higher frame-rate and indeed, at some points it felt that the 60fps target wasn't adhered to. However, even if we're not quite dealing with super-slick perfection, the quality of the immersion is absolutely remarkable. This is VR that not only works but leaves a lasting impression. An hour on from the hands-on session and I'm still excited about it.
Not much help for those currently hitting 30fps, but for new games aiming to have a "VR" mode, and "VR" specific games 60fps at 1080p certainly isn't impossible on the PS4.
Gizmodo has a hands on with the Vive, they explain the controller, the two boxes that are mounted on the walls and how a virtual fence appears when you walk too close to your real walls.
It also sounds like it'll cost an AWFUL lot. I fortunately have enough room in my living room (more if I move a coffee table), but I'm still leaning towards the morpheus a little, to get PS4 support. The next year will be very interesting for VR.
For me that'll be the issue. I don't have enough space in my flat, or rather, I think the first thing I'd have to move out of the flat would be my wife if I were to turn our living room into the Holodeck Mark 1. It sounds amazing, and I am definitely interested in VR, but for me it'll be a sit-down affair. Which will lessen the effectiveness of the tech, obviously, but I can live with that.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
I actually really want to try my daughter in the Rift/VR but not so sure social workers would approve of experimenting on her... the Vive would be perfect though, no need to worry about her getting wrapped up in wires.
I've got no dog in the VR fight but that was painful to watch. I had to stop when bullet points came up with every punch. Also how could he have defeated the other fighters if the lack of control inputs left him powerless ow my brain.
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Maybe next time!
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
Back on the topic of VR: I'm in two minds about what the Valve announcement could mean for Oculus Rift. On the one hand I want them to start producing the CV only once it works well enough rather than have to rush to market in order not to come in second, but I also think a bit of pressure and competition could keep the OR from being stuck in development hell for another two years. There'll never be a perfect moment to start producing the consumer version.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
North of England you say?
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
PM sent.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Er, aren't the sensors built into the headset? That's what all the dimples are. And the laser on the front also tracks head position, replacing the need for a camera to determine your head position. Which is pretty ingenious, if that's how it actually works and I'm not making all of this up.
It looks to me you just wear the thing, no external sensors needed.
Edit:
Yeah, it was like this
http://www.roadtovr.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/steam-dev-days-vrroom.png
You forgot porn.
Seriously, that's what decided VHS vs Beta, and I think will be a driving force behind sales.
Holy crap.
...well, it's certainly proof of concept, but here's hoping they're shooting for something much more reasonable for normal folks to put together.
The Vibe won't require a room filled with QR codes on the walls
Ehhhhhhhh
The porn industry backed HD-DVD.
I don't think porn has nearly as much influence over technology as people seem to think.
But yes, I imagine sex stuff will probably help a bit.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
This is quite different, and even if it is just a novelty at first I think it will sell a few units. But I fully expect to see things marketed to interact with the VR headsets coming from the porn industry. There's been attempts at it already. I can't think of any names off the top of my head, but I have seen various devices meant to mimic what is being done/shown on screen.
Every horny teenage male has thought about it at some point, and there are possibilities we may not even be considering as possibly being real, say the sex in Demolition Man.
I really do think it's going to be a driving force behind sales and don't think it should be discounted. I'm not ashamed to admit it's one of the things I'm really curious about trying out when I do get a device, although I'm going to guess what is out there isn't any good. I've read the stories in this thread, it seems more novelty than anything right now.
He's probably pretty chafed at this point
Also apparently his house caught on fire last month.
He went back to making normal posts a week or two later. He was very clear that his VR stuff survived and it sounds like he's fine. I don't know how his many shelves of gaming relics came out though.
Edit: I really should have put this in my last post, huh?
Yeah, I just talked to him on Steam. Apparently his unit was completely untouched even though the rest of the building burned. Didn't lose a thing.
The news reports of the Vive are talking about a pair of base-stations that track your position in a 15ft by 15ft space. I'm assuming that's what they'll use for tracking.
http://www.wired.com/2015/03/sony-ps4-project-morpheus-release-date/
120hz apparently. The demo they discuss sounds interesting, if it can be used on pc it'll probably be the headset I buy.
2016 release, potentially having a rating system on the store for virtual comfort (I. E how much you'll vomit)
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
Eurogamer wrote something about interpolated frames to achieve the high framerates; I suspect that this would be a hardware rather than software thing. It also makes me wonder whether the 120Hz thing indeed means the same thing as it would with a regular screen. In any case, wouldn't something like G-Sync be the best option for VR, rather than having a fixed refresh rate that clashes with the rate at which the computer or console delivers new frames?
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Essentially the visual part of the headset is just going to be a HDMI out (I'm guessing there'll be a pass through to the TV on the final unit thorugh a control box that sits at the back?), that'll work just fine on a PC.
I can't believe for a minute that after it's released there won't be people working on getting it to work with existing VR stuff.
::edit:: I'm not a fan of interpolation on TVs but as a method to remove nausea in a VR game? I can actually see that working pretty well.
Regarding Gsync, I suspect the hardware implementation for this 120hz Sony are using is their version of Gsync. Carmack commented on it for the Rift:
The headset would be a hard sell to me if it didn't work in some capacity on PC. Whilst I do most of my gaming on console, and it'd save me money initially to go that way(I'll need a significant update to the PC in addition to a Rift or Vive) I just COULDN'T miss out on what the community will do with this tech on PC.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
There's never been a PC Sony peripheral, and Playstation peripherals aren't intended to work with PCs, so I'm not really sure what your point is.
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
Penny Arcade Rockstar Social Club / This is why I despise cyclists
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-hands-on-with-the-near-final-project-morpheus
Not much help for those currently hitting 30fps, but for new games aiming to have a "VR" mode, and "VR" specific games 60fps at 1080p certainly isn't impossible on the PS4.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
http://gizmodo.com/htc-vive-virtual-reality-so-damn-real-that-i-cant-even-1689396093
edit: the embed killed the link to the saved video for some reason...
Link to John Carmack's GDC talk
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
It also sounds like it'll cost an AWFUL lot. I fortunately have enough room in my living room (more if I move a coffee table), but I'm still leaning towards the morpheus a little, to get PS4 support. The next year will be very interesting for VR.
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
"Nothing is gonna save us forever but a lot of things can save us today." - Night in the Woods
PSN: SirGrinchX
Oculus Rift: Sir_Grinch
I've got no dog in the VR fight but that was painful to watch. I had to stop when bullet points came up with every punch. Also how could he have defeated the other fighters if the lack of control inputs left him powerless ow my brain.