That is what, Dominion on poker chips instead of cards?
Now I am just confused. Are you saying Matt is a thief for putting the Dominion stuff on poker chips or...?
I'm saying that 2 years after Matthan produced this gorgeous wood chip version of Dominion with it's own striking iconography and design language Sirlin has the mother goosing "genius" to create PuzzleDominionStrike and completely rip-off Matthan's visual design without even a mention.
Cost on top, title, and then rules text underneath has been like... the layout of every card in nearly every game I have ever played.
I have to say, now that I have played boardgames for years and years, it does bum me out how many games just lift things wholesale from other games without really putting thought into it.
How many deckbuilders have starting decks of 10 cards? Have your hand size at 5? Have you discard your whole hand and draw a new one at the end of your turn? Etc.
How much of this is because it is the way that successful deckbuilder Dominion did it and not because it is the best design choice for the particular game that is being made?
I just can't help but feel that it is far more of the former than the latter. It can sap my enthusiasm for a new game rather quickly.
Not arguing with the general point, but the specific example: our tendency to think in base 10s is probably the stronger reason behind that one. Designers probably import Dominion's 10-and-5 without even thinking about it because 5s and 10s are such handy numbers to our monkey brains. If Dominion had been 6 and 12 later designers probably would have used 5 and 10 anyway. Hell, if any of them thought about it consciously they probably just thought "yeah, why use a weird number like 7 if it's just going to confuse people?"
Thinking in base 10 may be it, but honestly I do not see 7 confusing anyone. I've played deckbuilders where cards adjust your max handsize and no one ever really seemed throw off by it.
The biggest idea I wish deckbuilders would forget from Dominion is trashing cards.
That is what, Dominion on poker chips instead of cards?
Now I am just confused. Are you saying Matt is a thief for putting the Dominion stuff on poker chips or...?
I'm saying that 2 years after Matthan produced this gorgeous wood chip version of Dominion with it's own striking iconography and design language Sirlin has the mother goosing "genius" to create PuzzleDominionStrike and completely rip-off Matthan's visual design without even a mention.
Cost on top, title, and then rules text underneath has been like... the layout of every card in nearly every game I have ever played.
That's ignoring pretty much every other element.
The use of the plus and arrow symbol to represent extra actions
The use of the haloed circle to represent drawing more chips
The scroll work
The attack chips getting the extra iconography around the title in addition to the banner colour change
Dominion itself doesn't have the cost at the top of the card so you can't even use that as an excuse.
I mean, seriously - the haloed circle to represent more chips is so fucking blatantly obvious and distinctive that that alone should set of a big enormous alarm. Why not a simple filled circle. Why halo it? I will tell you why. Becausee Sirlin is a plagarist hack who wholesale copied Matthan's work and didn't not even have the courtesy to acknowledge as a thank you.
This level of similarly is just a 100% practicality led coincidence?
And just to show it is possible, here is someone elses attempt to create a chip version of Dominion. you notice how it looks nothing like Matthan's work
Putting this in spoilers because I don't want to clutter up the thread.
You add the border because it makes it easier to tell when you have multiples stacked up (like in that picture you posted). That's probably the thing you have the weakest case for. That's probably the most basic, obvious design for those - you need a symbol for more chips, which are round, you need to distinguish them individually, so you give them a border. That's graphic design 101. I think you're seriously overestimating the uniqueness of these design elements. Pluses to get more of something and an arrow denoting action are also not unique to this guy, he didn't invent those himself.
The one thing I will give you is the title scroll design, which actually connotes a unique style. I do think it's possible that they could have come up with those independently, since the overall shape of the scroll title fits nicely into the curved shape of the chip and would make sense, but it seems unlikely.
At any rate, give it a rest. Stealing some graphic design elements is hardly plagiarism and you're blowing this wildly out of proportion.
Speaking of anything else, Richard Garfield posted a thing on BGG about wanting to reboot Robo Rally with update rules and whatnot. Possibly working with WOTC and doing it officially, or if they don't want to do it then possibly retheming it and doing it without them. So theres a thing that I'm massively excited about! http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1244425/would-you-be-interested-robo-rally-rebooted
If Dominion had been 6 and 12 later designers probably would have used 5 and 10 anyway. Hell, if any of them thought about it consciously they probably just thought "yeah, why use a weird number like 7 if it's just going to confuse people?"
Legendary uses 6 and 12 and it's disconcerting for the first few games.
Speaking of anything else, Richard Garfield posted a thing on BGG about wanting to reboot Robo Rally with update rules and whatnot. Possibly working with WOTC and doing it officially, or if they don't want to do it then possibly retheming it and doing it without them. So theres a thing that I'm massively excited about! http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1244425/would-you-be-interested-robo-rally-rebooted
I love that "YES! DO THIS HOWEVER YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH IT!" is thus far the overwhelming response from both polls.
You know, I could totally see a Android: Roborally re-theme working if he had to go through FFG to get it published. Make it that sport with the drones Whizzard plays.
PMAvers on
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Oh god I would love an Android themed RoboRally so much.
// PSN: wyrd_warrior // MHW Name: Josei //
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ArcticLancerBest served chilled.Registered Userregular
RE iPad games:
Picked up Galaxy Trucker (was curious how this was handled in app form), Neuroshima Hex (was curious about this one as last PAX East someone started to teach me how to play it, but then the line we were in started moving), and Caylus (another one I was just curious to try as it's something of a classic).
I spotted a few other random things in the store while I was poking around, but in general I seem to prefer the physical copies of games and don't feel hugely inclined to pick up much. Nice to have this though, as it does open me up to grabbing Alchemy and XCOM when they come along. ^_^
Custom SpecialI know I am, I'm sure I am,I'm Sounders 'til I die!Registered Userregular
@ArcticLancer I'm the same way and prefer the tactility of physical games, but sometimes a quick digital fix is just right (Suburbia in bed, Lords of Waterdeep on an airplane, etc). If at all possible though, I very much prefer at least playing the physical version of a game before playing digital just to have a greater understanding of what's going on and where everything is on the board (it's been difficult to learn to play Agricola digital having never played the actual game).
@ArcticLancer I'm the same way and prefer the tactility of physical games, but sometimes a quick digital fix is just right (Suburbia in bed, Lords of Waterdeep on an airplane, etc). If at all possible though, I very much prefer at least playing the physical version of a game before playing digital just to have a greater understanding of what's going on and where everything is on the board (it's been difficult to learn to play Agricola digital having never played the actual game).
Interesting contrast. I view the apps as a decent way to test-run a game without buying it, but I understand what you mean (especially with some of them having dealt with notoriety as bad implementations). The mobile board game fix doesn't interest me much at all, although I know the situation could arise where it's nice to be able to break out a board game with people without actually HAVING that board game with me. Still, single player experiences are definitely not what I'm looking at here. Of course, that said, if I could get a Where There Is Discord app, that would be great. I don't get to break out my solitaire games too often from a lack of space at my apartment. Similarly, I would love a High Frontier app to be able to just mess with the glory that is that game, but ... yeah, these are things I will not expect any time in the near future.
Thanks for the feedback on Puzzle Strike, I think I'll pick it up for my gaming group. I'm hoping the player interaction will go over better than Dominion does.
@ArcticLancer I'm the same way and prefer the tactility of physical games, but sometimes a quick digital fix is just right (Suburbia in bed, Lords of Waterdeep on an airplane, etc). If at all possible though, I very much prefer at least playing the physical version of a game before playing digital just to have a greater understanding of what's going on and where everything is on the board (it's been difficult to learn to play Agricola digital having never played the actual game).
Interesting contrast. I view the apps as a decent way to test-run a game without buying it, but I understand what you mean (especially with some of them having dealt with notoriety as bad implementations). The mobile board game fix doesn't interest me much at all, although I know the situation could arise where it's nice to be able to break out a board game with people without actually HAVING that board game with me. Still, single player experiences are definitely not what I'm looking at here. Of course, that said, if I could get a Where There Is Discord app, that would be great. I don't get to break out my solitaire games too often from a lack of space at my apartment. Similarly, I would love a High Frontier app to be able to just mess with the glory that is that game, but ... yeah, these are things I will not expect any time in the near future.
Neuroshima Hex is sooooo fun as an iPad game that I can hardly imagine the cardboard form. Personally, I think me and my boyfriend would quit after calculating the first Battle phase.
Mother fucker! My order from Miniature Market just arrived and apparently they say they are out of stock on Eminent Domain. However the website still shows 4 copies in stock. Also they didn't notify me that the game was out of stock for the whole of last week, seeing as I placed the god damn order on Tuesday the 23rd. If they had notified me I could have added it to my order from CSI. Now I'll have to buy it from CSI and pay separate shipping, without the 10% coupon, increasing the price to me by almost 45%!
In fact the Spriggan cards reference some thing called "focus durability" that doesnt actually exist anywhere else because the renamed it to Essense and then never put that word on any of the cards. Now one symbol means three different things and only one can be used to power spells but GOOD LUCK GUESSING because there's literallyonly one thing in French that's written telling you how it works.
Mother fucker! My order from Miniature Market just arrived and apparently they say they are out of stock on Eminent Domain. However the website still shows 4 copies in stock. Also they didn't notify me that the game was out of stock for the whole of last week, seeing as I placed the god damn order on Tuesday the 23rd. If they had notified me I could have added it to my order from CSI. Now I'll have to buy it from CSI and pay separate shipping, without the 10% coupon, increasing the price to me by almost 45%!
Uh... shouldn't MM offer to send one to you for free shipping? That seems really incomeptent of them.
Mother fucker! My order from Miniature Market just arrived and apparently they say they are out of stock on Eminent Domain. However the website still shows 4 copies in stock. Also they didn't notify me that the game was out of stock for the whole of last week, seeing as I placed the god damn order on Tuesday the 23rd. If they had notified me I could have added it to my order from CSI. Now I'll have to buy it from CSI and pay separate shipping, without the 10% coupon, increasing the price to me by almost 45%!
Might as well add the expansion then, it's a big improvement over the base game.
Maybe they restocked after they shipped your package? *shrug*
That was apparently what happened, and I just got an email saying they're going to ship it out for me. Still frustrating that they must have known for the better part of a week that they didn't have it and didn't inform me.
Wiz-War Bestial Forces just made it through my door. Poor delivery guy is still on the road at half past eight. Still, can't wait to try out this expansion. It looks like a great addition to Malefic Curses.
Enjoying Galaxy Trucker on iPad but good god the businessman mission to the brown alien planet is annoying as hell. It's a route full of pirates and smugglers, And the other ship has to end with at least 10 credits of cargo. That means you have to start out in the lead, stock full of tons of lasers to defeat all pirates and smugglers so they don't get to the other ship, AND get tons of engines to stay in front.
To make it even worse the other ship ALWAYS gets zero lasers and a ton of engines (he gets access to brown aliens and you don't). He will always power his double engines for 6 or more thrust to plough ahead of you and get slaughtered by pirates and smugglers. I've failed eight times now and just gave up. Screw escort missions in a game that wasn't designed for them and an AI that actively makes it impossible to protect.
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AstaerethIn the belly of the beastRegistered Userregular
So I happened to hang out with Wil Wheaton today (*humblebrag*) and he recommended three board games to me, thought I'd share. I've heard of Kingdom Builder but haven't played it. Concept is completely new to me, but sounds cool. He said, "If Charades is for actors, Concept is for writers." He also mentioned Belle of the Ball (also something I've never heard of), saying it was almost perfect. I'll definitely be checking these out at some point.
I tried recommending Tales of the Arabian Nights to him, but he said he didn't care for the disconnection between story segments. He did seem very intrigued by Ladies and Gentlemen, which he hadn't heard of, so score.
Also, apparently he's in the middle of a brutal, vicious 7-game series tournament of Takenoko, which I find hilarious.
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CaptainPeacockBoard Game HoarderTop o' the LakeRegistered Userregular
Did you... did you touch the beard?
Cluck cluck, gibber gibber, my old man's a mushroom, etc.
So I taught my sister King of Tokyo with a quick two player match. She seems to like it, double so because she actually won the first one (I got out of Tokyo due to low HP and the next turn she managed to get a 4 claw roll plus spiked tail, annihilating me despite my eleven VP lead) and she loves the times she manages to beat me at anything since she knows that unlike most people in the family I don't let her win. I'm thinking this game will, even if the game group doesn't completely love it, prove a good family game.
Also, on some previous discussion, what is BattleCON? I keep hearing about "a fighting game in card form" and that just sounds super bloody weird.
Picked up Space Cadets: Dice Duels last night. Now to familiarize my mom with the game so I can break this out at Thanksgiving. She didn't like the fact that no one could stop to tell here what to do in Escape and I'm hoping that the captain along with the more focused roles takes care of that.
lowlylowlycook on
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
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CaptainPeacockBoard Game HoarderTop o' the LakeRegistered Userregular
Posts
Cost on top, title, and then rules text underneath has been like... the layout of every card in nearly every game I have ever played.
Thinking in base 10 may be it, but honestly I do not see 7 confusing anyone. I've played deckbuilders where cards adjust your max handsize and no one ever really seemed throw off by it.
The biggest idea I wish deckbuilders would forget from Dominion is trashing cards.
That's ignoring pretty much every other element.
The use of the plus and arrow symbol to represent extra actions
The use of the haloed circle to represent drawing more chips
The scroll work
The attack chips getting the extra iconography around the title in addition to the banner colour change
Dominion itself doesn't have the cost at the top of the card so you can't even use that as an excuse.
I mean, seriously - the haloed circle to represent more chips is so fucking blatantly obvious and distinctive that that alone should set of a big enormous alarm. Why not a simple filled circle. Why halo it? I will tell you why. Becausee Sirlin is a plagarist hack who wholesale copied Matthan's work and didn't not even have the courtesy to acknowledge as a thank you.
This level of similarly is just a 100% practicality led coincidence?
And just to show it is possible, here is someone elses attempt to create a chip version of Dominion. you notice how it looks nothing like Matthan's work
I made a game, it has penguins in it. It's pay what you like on Gumroad.
Currently Ebaying Nothing at all but I might do in the future.
The one thing I will give you is the title scroll design, which actually connotes a unique style. I do think it's possible that they could have come up with those independently, since the overall shape of the scroll title fits nicely into the curved shape of the chip and would make sense, but it seems unlikely.
At any rate, give it a rest. Stealing some graphic design elements is hardly plagiarism and you're blowing this wildly out of proportion.
Nintendo ID: Pastalonius
Smite\LoL:Gremlidin \ WoW & Overwatch & Hots: Gremlidin#1734
3ds: 3282-2248-0453
With that level of complexity? No. BattleCON does the fighting-game-on-a-line thing, but it's a much more complicated game.
Yeah, I'm kinda looking for strategy with simplicity. Nothing crazy deep or complicated. Something that can play quickly is helpful too.
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1244425/would-you-be-interested-robo-rally-rebooted
Legendary uses 6 and 12 and it's disconcerting for the first few games.
EDIT:
I love that "YES! DO THIS HOWEVER YOU CAN GET AWAY WITH IT!" is thus far the overwhelming response from both polls.
I still need Lords of Vegas I guess.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
Picked up Galaxy Trucker (was curious how this was handled in app form), Neuroshima Hex (was curious about this one as last PAX East someone started to teach me how to play it, but then the line we were in started moving), and Caylus (another one I was just curious to try as it's something of a classic).
I spotted a few other random things in the store while I was poking around, but in general I seem to prefer the physical copies of games and don't feel hugely inclined to pick up much. Nice to have this though, as it does open me up to grabbing Alchemy and XCOM when they come along. ^_^
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
@Drascin
I did a PlaybyPost of Wiz War a looong time ago.
http://forums.penny-arcade.com/discussion/155611/wiz-war-tournament-discussion-thread-championship-starting-12ish-in-the-pit/p1
I ran 5 games and then flaked on the championship game (shameful).
Interesting contrast. I view the apps as a decent way to test-run a game without buying it, but I understand what you mean (especially with some of them having dealt with notoriety as bad implementations). The mobile board game fix doesn't interest me much at all, although I know the situation could arise where it's nice to be able to break out a board game with people without actually HAVING that board game with me. Still, single player experiences are definitely not what I'm looking at here. Of course, that said, if I could get a Where There Is Discord app, that would be great. I don't get to break out my solitaire games too often from a lack of space at my apartment. Similarly, I would love a High Frontier app to be able to just mess with the glory that is that game, but ... yeah, these are things I will not expect any time in the near future.
Perhaps I can interest you in my meager selection of pins?
They fix Myth yet?
The terrain boards are soooooo thiiiiiiiick.
Neuroshima Hex is sooooo fun as an iPad game that I can hardly imagine the cardboard form. Personally, I think me and my boyfriend would quit after calculating the first Battle phase.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
ha ha no
In fact the Spriggan cards reference some thing called "focus durability" that doesnt actually exist anywhere else because the renamed it to Essense and then never put that word on any of the cards. Now one symbol means three different things and only one can be used to power spells but GOOD LUCK GUESSING because there's literallyonly one thing in French that's written telling you how it works.
It's a complete clusterfuck.
Uh... shouldn't MM offer to send one to you for free shipping? That seems really incomeptent of them.
Might as well add the expansion then, it's a big improvement over the base game.
Or so I'm told. Mine's still in the box.
COME FORTH, AMATERASU! - Switch Friend Code SW-5465-2458-5696 - Twitch
That was apparently what happened, and I just got an email saying they're going to ship it out for me. Still frustrating that they must have known for the better part of a week that they didn't have it and didn't inform me.
To make it even worse the other ship ALWAYS gets zero lasers and a ton of engines (he gets access to brown aliens and you don't). He will always power his double engines for 6 or more thrust to plough ahead of you and get slaughtered by pirates and smugglers. I've failed eight times now and just gave up. Screw escort missions in a game that wasn't designed for them and an AI that actively makes it impossible to protect.
I tried recommending Tales of the Arabian Nights to him, but he said he didn't care for the disconnection between story segments. He did seem very intrigued by Ladies and Gentlemen, which he hadn't heard of, so score.
Also, apparently he's in the middle of a brutal, vicious 7-game series tournament of Takenoko, which I find hilarious.
No one touches the beard, for it is the source of his power.
He said they locked their choices on Sunday, and IIRC are starting shooting either this weekend or next week.
Also, on some previous discussion, what is BattleCON? I keep hearing about "a fighting game in card form" and that just sounds super bloody weird.
(Please do not gift. My game bank is already full.)
I had thought it to be an alien creature, symbiotically providing him with the superpowers of allure and cunning. Now we shall never know.
You had one job