Played with a DK tank geared out the ass yesterday (boe epics) and I daresay these dungeons are going to be really faceroll with highmaul gear. Are they capping the ilvl in heroics to prevent them from being too boring?
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turtleantGunpla Dadis the best.Registered Userregular
Played with a DK tank geared out the ass yesterday (boe epics) and I daresay these dungeons are going to be really faceroll with highmaul gear. Are they capping the ilvl in heroics to prevent them from being too boring?
That seems like a crazy thing to do.
There's not much point in getting better gear if it all gets downgraded when you do lower end content.
and besides, that's kinda the point of Challenge Modes is to give you that difficulty whenever u want it and also get SICK TRANSMOGS out of it, potentially
obv I haven't reached heroic ilevels yet, but yeah.
I'm noticing a strong trend of tank-capable people hitting 100 and queueing as tanks, though they're wearing nothing but dps gear.
There's only one real tank stat now in Bonus Armor. Dps and tank gear looks a lot alike now, much like dps and healer gear.
Unless you mean prot warriors staying arms or whatever in which case fuck em.
Yeah I'm kinda sad about the lack of distinction between tank and DPS gear, aside from bonus armour, now. Avoidance based tanking was a fun option for people who were capable of dealing with its downsides, and it's a shame they culled it IMO.
obv I haven't reached heroic ilevels yet, but yeah.
I'm noticing a strong trend of tank-capable people hitting 100 and queueing as tanks, though they're wearing nothing but dps gear.
There's only one real tank stat now in Bonus Armor. Dps and tank gear looks a lot alike now, much like dps and healer gear.
Unless you mean prot warriors staying arms or whatever in which case fuck em.
Yeah I'm kinda sad about the lack of distinction between tank and DPS gear, aside from bonus armour, now. Avoidance based tanking was a fun option for people who were capable of dealing with its downsides, and it's a shame they culled it IMO.
Nope it's great not to waste 2 bags worth of gear for healing and pvp.
obv I haven't reached heroic ilevels yet, but yeah.
I'm noticing a strong trend of tank-capable people hitting 100 and queueing as tanks, though they're wearing nothing but dps gear.
There's only one real tank stat now in Bonus Armor. Dps and tank gear looks a lot alike now, much like dps and healer gear.
Unless you mean prot warriors staying arms or whatever in which case fuck em.
Yeah I'm kinda sad about the lack of distinction between tank and DPS gear, aside from bonus armour, now. Avoidance based tanking was a fun option for people who were capable of dealing with its downsides, and it's a shame they culled it IMO.
Nope it's great not to waste 2 bags worth of gear for healing and pvp.
Now I only have to waste one bag.
I uh, didn't say anything about healing or PvP. I just mean tanking gear, yo.
As in, there's only bonus armour for tank-specific stats now. The rest is just the same stats as everyone else. I guess I liked having the extra options for gear choices.
obv I haven't reached heroic ilevels yet, but yeah.
I'm noticing a strong trend of tank-capable people hitting 100 and queueing as tanks, though they're wearing nothing but dps gear.
There's only one real tank stat now in Bonus Armor. Dps and tank gear looks a lot alike now, much like dps and healer gear.
Unless you mean prot warriors staying arms or whatever in which case fuck em.
Yeah I'm kinda sad about the lack of distinction between tank and DPS gear, aside from bonus armour, now. Avoidance based tanking was a fun option for people who were capable of dealing with its downsides, and it's a shame they culled it IMO.
Nope it's great not to waste 2 bags worth of gear for healing and pvp.
Now I only have to waste one bag.
I uh, didn't say anything about healing or PvP. I just mean tanking gear, yo.
As in, there's only bonus armour for tank-specific stats now. The rest is just the same stats as everyone else. I guess I liked having the extra options for gear choices.
Yeah but he's talking about Blizzard's decision as a whole to blend gear, which is exactly what you're disappointed with. Healers only have the one stat (spirit), just like tanks.
Hell, even tanks have avoidance on the tertiary slot, don't they?
obv I haven't reached heroic ilevels yet, but yeah.
I'm noticing a strong trend of tank-capable people hitting 100 and queueing as tanks, though they're wearing nothing but dps gear.
There's only one real tank stat now in Bonus Armor. Dps and tank gear looks a lot alike now, much like dps and healer gear.
Unless you mean prot warriors staying arms or whatever in which case fuck em.
Yeah I'm kinda sad about the lack of distinction between tank and DPS gear, aside from bonus armour, now. Avoidance based tanking was a fun option for people who were capable of dealing with its downsides, and it's a shame they culled it IMO.
Nope it's great not to waste 2 bags worth of gear for healing and pvp.
Now I only have to waste one bag.
I uh, didn't say anything about healing or PvP. I just mean tanking gear, yo.
As in, there's only bonus armour for tank-specific stats now. The rest is just the same stats as everyone else. I guess I liked having the extra options for gear choices.
Dodge and Parry have been trap stats for years. Finally removing them (and expertise) was the best thing Blizzard could do for tanking. You still get avoidance stats from damage stats, STR gives parry as does crit iirc, but you also get other benefits from those things as well, making them much more reasonable stats.
obv I haven't reached heroic ilevels yet, but yeah.
I'm noticing a strong trend of tank-capable people hitting 100 and queueing as tanks, though they're wearing nothing but dps gear.
There's only one real tank stat now in Bonus Armor. Dps and tank gear looks a lot alike now, much like dps and healer gear.
Unless you mean prot warriors staying arms or whatever in which case fuck em.
Yeah I'm kinda sad about the lack of distinction between tank and DPS gear, aside from bonus armour, now. Avoidance based tanking was a fun option for people who were capable of dealing with its downsides, and it's a shame they culled it IMO.
Nope it's great not to waste 2 bags worth of gear for healing and pvp.
Now I only have to waste one bag.
I uh, didn't say anything about healing or PvP. I just mean tanking gear, yo.
As in, there's only bonus armour for tank-specific stats now. The rest is just the same stats as everyone else. I guess I liked having the extra options for gear choices.
Yeah but he's talking about Blizzard's decision as a whole to blend gear, which is exactly what you're disappointed with. Healers only have the one stat (spirit), just like tanks.
Hell, even tanks have avoidance on the tertiary slot, don't they?
Well prior to the gear blending healers only had spirit as a healer-ish stat, as well. They just also had the other caster stats to pick and choose from, nothing has changed there.
I mean, I guess they've adjusted all the tank classes so that they get some defensive power from the tradtionally DPS stats (haste, crit) and the new ones (multistrike, versatility), and mastery has always been a thing since it was added. I suppose I just feel a bit sad about the removal of two other stat options for my tank characters.
obv I haven't reached heroic ilevels yet, but yeah.
I'm noticing a strong trend of tank-capable people hitting 100 and queueing as tanks, though they're wearing nothing but dps gear.
There's only one real tank stat now in Bonus Armor. Dps and tank gear looks a lot alike now, much like dps and healer gear.
Unless you mean prot warriors staying arms or whatever in which case fuck em.
Yeah I'm kinda sad about the lack of distinction between tank and DPS gear, aside from bonus armour, now. Avoidance based tanking was a fun option for people who were capable of dealing with its downsides, and it's a shame they culled it IMO.
Nope it's great not to waste 2 bags worth of gear for healing and pvp.
Now I only have to waste one bag.
I uh, didn't say anything about healing or PvP. I just mean tanking gear, yo.
As in, there's only bonus armour for tank-specific stats now. The rest is just the same stats as everyone else. I guess I liked having the extra options for gear choices.
Dodge and Parry have been trap stats for years. Finally removing them (and expertise) was the best thing Blizzard could do for tanking. You still get avoidance stats from damage stats, STR gives parry as does crit iirc, but you also get other benefits from those things as well, making them much more reasonable stats.
Getting rid of expertise and hit were legitimately great choices. I'm still unconvinced that dodge/parry were ever really 'trap stats' outside of most of TBC raiding. I've seen plenty of very good tanks run avoidance builds in the past, including in MoP, to great effect.
Ok, so never playing Horde prior to this, I'm a bit out of sorts in terms of navigation, especially the Eastern Kingdoms. I've mostly been leveling in dungeons and finding that I'm outleveling zones quicker than (what I presume is) normal. I'm in the Badlands now having made my way from UC via EPL, and it seems I should be headed to The Swamp of Sorrows. What's the best way to get there? Should I just mount up and run, or is there some quest that will take me there (like the one from EPL to Badlands)?
obv I haven't reached heroic ilevels yet, but yeah.
I'm noticing a strong trend of tank-capable people hitting 100 and queueing as tanks, though they're wearing nothing but dps gear.
There's only one real tank stat now in Bonus Armor. Dps and tank gear looks a lot alike now, much like dps and healer gear.
Unless you mean prot warriors staying arms or whatever in which case fuck em.
Yeah I'm kinda sad about the lack of distinction between tank and DPS gear, aside from bonus armour, now. Avoidance based tanking was a fun option for people who were capable of dealing with its downsides, and it's a shame they culled it IMO.
Nope it's great not to waste 2 bags worth of gear for healing and pvp.
Now I only have to waste one bag.
I uh, didn't say anything about healing or PvP. I just mean tanking gear, yo.
As in, there's only bonus armour for tank-specific stats now. The rest is just the same stats as everyone else. I guess I liked having the extra options for gear choices.
Dodge and Parry have been trap stats for years. Finally removing them (and expertise) was the best thing Blizzard could do for tanking. You still get avoidance stats from damage stats, STR gives parry as does crit iirc, but you also get other benefits from those things as well, making them much more reasonable stats.
Getting rid of expertise and hit were legitimately great choices. I'm still unconvinced that dodge/parry were ever really 'trap stats' outside of most of TBC raiding. I've seen plenty of very good tanks run avoidance builds in the past, including in MoP, to great effect.
That's the problem though.
When avoidance gets out of hand you end up with either stupid inconsistent damage spikes or trivial encounters.
By normalizing avoidance and increasing tank mitigation instead designers can make tank damage a much more known quantity.
Ok, so never playing Horde prior to this, I'm a bit out of sorts in terms of navigation, especially the Eastern Kingdoms. I've mostly been leveling in dungeons and finding that I'm outleveling zones quicker than (what I presume is) normal. I'm in the Badlands now having made my way from UC via EPL, and it seems I should be headed to The Swamp of Sorrows. What's the best way to get there? Should I just mount up and run, or is there some quest that will take me there (like the one from EPL to Badlands)?
Thanks!
There's a few ways. You can head to Org, take the zeppelin to Stranglethorn Vale and then ride over, you could go down through alliance territory if you feel like the scenic route, or you could take the portal from Org to Blasted Lands (if you can use it as a low level, not sure about that).
Could also ask a Mage for a portal there, if that spell still exists.
obv I haven't reached heroic ilevels yet, but yeah.
I'm noticing a strong trend of tank-capable people hitting 100 and queueing as tanks, though they're wearing nothing but dps gear.
There's only one real tank stat now in Bonus Armor. Dps and tank gear looks a lot alike now, much like dps and healer gear.
Unless you mean prot warriors staying arms or whatever in which case fuck em.
Yeah I'm kinda sad about the lack of distinction between tank and DPS gear, aside from bonus armour, now. Avoidance based tanking was a fun option for people who were capable of dealing with its downsides, and it's a shame they culled it IMO.
Nope it's great not to waste 2 bags worth of gear for healing and pvp.
Now I only have to waste one bag.
I uh, didn't say anything about healing or PvP. I just mean tanking gear, yo.
As in, there's only bonus armour for tank-specific stats now. The rest is just the same stats as everyone else. I guess I liked having the extra options for gear choices.
Dodge and Parry have been trap stats for years. Finally removing them (and expertise) was the best thing Blizzard could do for tanking. You still get avoidance stats from damage stats, STR gives parry as does crit iirc, but you also get other benefits from those things as well, making them much more reasonable stats.
Getting rid of expertise and hit were legitimately great choices. I'm still unconvinced that dodge/parry were ever really 'trap stats' outside of most of TBC raiding. I've seen plenty of very good tanks run avoidance builds in the past, including in MoP, to great effect.
That's the problem though.
When avoidance gets out of hand you end up with either stupid inconsistent damage spikes or trivial encounters.
By normalizing avoidance and increasing tank mitigation instead designers can make tank damage a much more known quantity.
Up until MoP I found avoidance tanking way more enjoyable than stam stacking or mitigation-based tanking. Personal preference, of course, but that's why I am disappointed.
But of course in MoP I got excited about how cool Critical Block was and just stacked Mastery on my Warrior (followed by parry and dodge, though), so I guess it doesn't really matter now.
I've always felt stacking stam was the most boring thing ever, which is basically what mitigation tanking was for a long while, but I guess you can't really do that anymore since gems aren't a common thing on gear and there's few (if any?) stam enchants now.
Well your personal preference leads to bad encounter design where healers have to spam constantly to keep a tank topped off at all times rather than make good decisions so I'm perfectly ok with going with blizz on this one.
Also yeah you can't stack stam the same way anymore either.
every enchant and gem in warlords is a secondary stat, i'm p. sure
and you only get like 4 or 5 enchants nowadays anyway
Yeah I wasn't sure about the gems, but I know that at least the enchanting enchants are secondary only. Are there still those leg enchants from leatherworkers/tailors or did they take those out as well?
Well your personal preference leads to bad encounter design where healers have to spam constantly to keep a tank topped off at all times rather than make good decisions so I'm perfectly ok with going with blizz on this one.
Also yeah you can't stack stam the same way anymore either.
I don't think that was the case in MoP, really. The additional tools that healers and tanks had, from absorb shields to smart heals and whatnot were able to soften the possible issues that avoidance tanking could cause. The bigger problem for healing in the past few expansions was the urgency behind keeping your entire raid at max health. Wanting to keep your tank at 100% as much as possible is something that has existed since the game began, no matter their class or spec.
Of course, since they've reduced the potency or number of those sorts of tools in Warlords, it does make sense that they've had to adjust things elsewhere as well.
It's obviously a change that is for the better, but I personally think it's less interesting in terms of stat variance. I'm sure I'll still enjoying tanking on my warrior regardless, though.
Ok, so never playing Horde prior to this, I'm a bit out of sorts in terms of navigation, especially the Eastern Kingdoms. I've mostly been leveling in dungeons and finding that I'm outleveling zones quicker than (what I presume is) normal. I'm in the Badlands now having made my way from UC via EPL, and it seems I should be headed to The Swamp of Sorrows. What's the best way to get there? Should I just mount up and run, or is there some quest that will take me there (like the one from EPL to Badlands)?
Thanks!
There's a few ways. You can head to Org, take the zeppelin to Stranglethorn Vale and then ride over, you could go down through alliance territory if you feel like the scenic route, or you could take the portal from Org to Blasted Lands (if you can use it as a low level, not sure about that).
Could also ask a Mage for a portal there, if that spell still exists.
Cool thanks!
I think I might end up running and taking the scenic route.
Well your personal preference leads to bad encounter design where healers have to spam constantly to keep a tank topped off at all times rather than make good decisions so I'm perfectly ok with going with blizz on this one.
Also yeah you can't stack stam the same way anymore either.
I don't think that was the case in MoP, really. The additional tools that healers and tanks had, from absorb shields to smart heals and whatnot were able to soften the possible issues that avoidance tanking could cause. The bigger problem for healing in the past few expansions was the urgency behind keeping your entire raid at max health. Wanting to keep your tank at 100% as much as possible is something that has existed since the game began, no matter their class or spec.
Of course, since they've reduced the potency or number of those sorts of tools in Warlords, it does make sense that they've had to adjust things elsewhere as well.
It's obviously a change that is for the better, but I personally think it's less interesting in terms of stat variance. I'm sure I'll still enjoying tanking on my warrior regardless, though.
Yes, you want to keep your tank topped, but what heal do you use?
If I have to use my fast, big heal or my aoe smart heal at all times then there's no real thought to healing. Why even have the cheap heal? Hell why even have mana? A big part of this comes down to the way they had tank gear designed.
Bonus armor is better than stam this xpack anyway. Same EHP, incredible increase in DPS.
EHP based tanking (again outside of BrM monks in MoP who got to cheat) has been the only reliable way to increase your time to death since Druids in sunwell almost got to 100% dodge. Avoidance is generally bad because you will have unlucky strings where you get hit 3-4-5 times in a row and if you don't have the EHP to survive, you get to be dead.
When I had all but 1 piece BiS tanking gear on my DK in pre-Ulduar Wrath stuff, I had like 64% armor mitigation, 41% parry and 39% dodge. I went a running 40 seconds or so taking zero damage against Faerlina when we did "Momma Said Knock you Out!"
Avoidance tanking is fun. You should be able to tank whoever you want, whenever you want, however you want!
I remember tanking Illidan on my warrior with like 75% or so avoidance, and enough EHP to take two consecutive hits. Took some really specific gear and gem/enchant choices, but I had a pretty great time with that. My block wasn't worth a cent, though.
I wonder this, too, but not for the reasons you were referencing.
I have 7200 mana on my priest. Only one of my spells costs over 50 mana. By the time the GCD has finished, I've passively regained all the mana I've spent on the previous spell. Am I missing something? I could kill mobs with 72 mana, let alone 7200.
It was a while ago, of course, but the three other players I ran those raids with were two healers and the other main tank. They thought it was an interesting difference and really quite potent on some fights, if a bit different to heal.
We made pretty careful choices about which tank we had main tank which fight, based on one of us being avoidance and one of us being pure stam. It was actually quite fun doing things a bit differently to other guilds, even if it might not have been as efficient.
I wonder this, too, but not for the reasons you were referencing.
I have 7200 mana on my priest. Only one of my spells costs over 50 mana. By the time the GCD has finished, I've passively regained all the mana I've spent on the previous spell. Am I missing something? I could kill mobs with 72 mana, let alone 7200.
Mana regen/costs at low levels is all kinds of messed up. Healing in low level dungeons is all about being able to heal enough to keep the tank alive, you don't really run out of mana unless something goes really wrong. You mostly just have to hope you don't get a dumb tank that pulls way more than you or he can handle.
Also outside of arcane mages, managing mana isn't really a thing for DPS at any level.
edit: though they did give affliction locks Life Tap back in 6.0, don't know what that is about.
I wonder this, too, but not for the reasons you were referencing.
I have 7200 mana on my priest. Only one of my spells costs over 50 mana. By the time the GCD has finished, I've passively regained all the mana I've spent on the previous spell. Am I missing something? I could kill mobs with 72 mana, let alone 7200.
Mana regen/costs at low levels is all kinds of messed up. Healing in low level dungeons is all about being able to heal enough to keep the tank alive, you don't really run out of mana unless something goes really wrong. You mostly just have to hope you don't get a dumb tank that pulls way more than you or he can handle.
Also outside of arcane mages, managing mana isn't really a thing for DPS at any level.
edit: though they did give affliction locks Life Tap back in 6.0, don't know what that is about.
Ok, thanks. I thought maybe I was using a lower level spell for my character level or something (not even sure if that's possible). It seemed like I was doing pretty piss-poor dps as a shadow priest, but that could be due to shitty gear.
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There's only one real tank stat now in Bonus Armor. Dps and tank gear looks a lot alike now, much like dps and healer gear.
Unless you mean prot warriors staying arms or whatever in which case fuck em.
That seems like a crazy thing to do.
There's not much point in getting better gear if it all gets downgraded when you do lower end content.
Yeah I'm kinda sad about the lack of distinction between tank and DPS gear, aside from bonus armour, now. Avoidance based tanking was a fun option for people who were capable of dealing with its downsides, and it's a shame they culled it IMO.
Nope it's great not to waste 2 bags worth of gear for healing and pvp.
Now I only have to waste one bag.
I uh, didn't say anything about healing or PvP. I just mean tanking gear, yo.
As in, there's only bonus armour for tank-specific stats now. The rest is just the same stats as everyone else. I guess I liked having the extra options for gear choices.
Yeah but he's talking about Blizzard's decision as a whole to blend gear, which is exactly what you're disappointed with. Healers only have the one stat (spirit), just like tanks.
Hell, even tanks have avoidance on the tertiary slot, don't they?
Dodge and Parry have been trap stats for years. Finally removing them (and expertise) was the best thing Blizzard could do for tanking. You still get avoidance stats from damage stats, STR gives parry as does crit iirc, but you also get other benefits from those things as well, making them much more reasonable stats.
Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
Well prior to the gear blending healers only had spirit as a healer-ish stat, as well. They just also had the other caster stats to pick and choose from, nothing has changed there.
I mean, I guess they've adjusted all the tank classes so that they get some defensive power from the tradtionally DPS stats (haste, crit) and the new ones (multistrike, versatility), and mastery has always been a thing since it was added. I suppose I just feel a bit sad about the removal of two other stat options for my tank characters.
Getting rid of expertise and hit were legitimately great choices. I'm still unconvinced that dodge/parry were ever really 'trap stats' outside of most of TBC raiding. I've seen plenty of very good tanks run avoidance builds in the past, including in MoP, to great effect.
Thanks!
That's the problem though.
When avoidance gets out of hand you end up with either stupid inconsistent damage spikes or trivial encounters.
By normalizing avoidance and increasing tank mitigation instead designers can make tank damage a much more known quantity.
There's a few ways. You can head to Org, take the zeppelin to Stranglethorn Vale and then ride over, you could go down through alliance territory if you feel like the scenic route, or you could take the portal from Org to Blasted Lands (if you can use it as a low level, not sure about that).
Could also ask a Mage for a portal there, if that spell still exists.
or at least I've been told I am, i turned off recount a little while before the expansion hit cause it was flooding my chat with error messages
Up until MoP I found avoidance tanking way more enjoyable than stam stacking or mitigation-based tanking. Personal preference, of course, but that's why I am disappointed.
But of course in MoP I got excited about how cool Critical Block was and just stacked Mastery on my Warrior (followed by parry and dodge, though), so I guess it doesn't really matter now.
I've always felt stacking stam was the most boring thing ever, which is basically what mitigation tanking was for a long while, but I guess you can't really do that anymore since gems aren't a common thing on gear and there's few (if any?) stam enchants now.
and you only get like 4 or 5 enchants nowadays anyway
Also yeah you can't stack stam the same way anymore either.
Yeah I wasn't sure about the gems, but I know that at least the enchanting enchants are secondary only. Are there still those leg enchants from leatherworkers/tailors or did they take those out as well?
I don't think that was the case in MoP, really. The additional tools that healers and tanks had, from absorb shields to smart heals and whatnot were able to soften the possible issues that avoidance tanking could cause. The bigger problem for healing in the past few expansions was the urgency behind keeping your entire raid at max health. Wanting to keep your tank at 100% as much as possible is something that has existed since the game began, no matter their class or spec.
Of course, since they've reduced the potency or number of those sorts of tools in Warlords, it does make sense that they've had to adjust things elsewhere as well.
It's obviously a change that is for the better, but I personally think it's less interesting in terms of stat variance. I'm sure I'll still enjoying tanking on my warrior regardless, though.
Cool thanks!
I think I might end up running and taking the scenic route.
tank dps is nutso.
aoe tank dps is even worse. especially when I am comparing it to Subtlety aoe dps.
Steam Switch FC: 2799-7909-4852
Yes, you want to keep your tank topped, but what heal do you use?
If I have to use my fast, big heal or my aoe smart heal at all times then there's no real thought to healing. Why even have the cheap heal? Hell why even have mana? A big part of this comes down to the way they had tank gear designed.
EHP based tanking (again outside of BrM monks in MoP who got to cheat) has been the only reliable way to increase your time to death since Druids in sunwell almost got to 100% dodge. Avoidance is generally bad because you will have unlucky strings where you get hit 3-4-5 times in a row and if you don't have the EHP to survive, you get to be dead.
Avoidance tanking is fun. You should be able to tank whoever you want, whenever you want, however you want!
I wonder this, too, but not for the reasons you were referencing.
I have 7200 mana on my priest. Only one of my spells costs over 50 mana. By the time the GCD has finished, I've passively regained all the mana I've spent on the previous spell. Am I missing something? I could kill mobs with 72 mana, let alone 7200.
We made pretty careful choices about which tank we had main tank which fight, based on one of us being avoidance and one of us being pure stam. It was actually quite fun doing things a bit differently to other guilds, even if it might not have been as efficient.
i put mine up for 39k. that would be by far the most money i ever had
Mana regen/costs at low levels is all kinds of messed up. Healing in low level dungeons is all about being able to heal enough to keep the tank alive, you don't really run out of mana unless something goes really wrong. You mostly just have to hope you don't get a dumb tank that pulls way more than you or he can handle.
Also outside of arcane mages, managing mana isn't really a thing for DPS at any level.
edit: though they did give affliction locks Life Tap back in 6.0, don't know what that is about.
I only really tell when I stay alive longer taking on the tank role with my rogue after the tank died.
Ok, thanks. I thought maybe I was using a lower level spell for my character level or something (not even sure if that's possible). It seemed like I was doing pretty piss-poor dps as a shadow priest, but that could be due to shitty gear.