I think they are going to try to for the Dems hand when they repeal all the funding but none of the actual laws. Then they can point at the dumpster fire and say that if only the Dems had repealed the rest of it, we wouldn't be in this mess.
Yea, that's what I'm worried about. The GOP puts the country on a track to get severely fucked over, at which point the Democrats can either not play ball and let the country burn, or be the adults and compromise on something shitty and end up taking all of the blame.
But a lot of the GOP would get caught in that fire too. That's why some of them are frantically signalling that they don't want to go along with this
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That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
edited January 2017
So, Trump says his replacement for Obamacare will provide "insurance for everyone." Even more he said that drug companies would have to negotiate their prices directly with the government. I think it would be hilarious and awesome if Trumpcare ends up being some kind of public option or single payer like Obamacare should have been?
Edit: To be clear, I am not in any way expecting Trumpcare to somehow be better than Obamacare. I just think it would be poetic if it were a medicare for everyone sort of thing.
I'm not petty like the gop so if they accidentally make good policy then sure whatever, I'm all for it. They won't though, dead eyed granny starver Paul Ryan would never let it happen.
If the Republicans accidentally hit on a good health plan, Democrats should still protest it, kicking and screaming. That's how Republicans know they have got something right. If SNL could do a scathing sketch against it, that would be perfect.
Hell, I could even see some of them being 'in on the gag'.
"Uh, guys, you do... you do realize this is basically the best parts of the ACA mixed with that single payer thing we've been kicking around as a pipe dream, right?"
"... yes. We've been trying to torpedo it all week, but he's adamant, and I just cleaned up my social media profile after the last fight with his Twidiots."
"Okay. Cool, thanks."
"Look, this won't work unless you sell it. You've gotta fight this thing. Call up SNL and have them mock it for half an hour straight. If we don't put in some effort, even the least informed out there will know something is up."
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Sounds like the plan to me is they are going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with the exact same legislation and call it probably the Affordable Care Law. Only difference will be the removal of the tax penalties, but the mandate will still be there and the default insurance plan for every American will be Medicare.
Fine, okay, sure. As Morpheus once said, "Show me."
Sounds like the plan to me is they are going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with the exact same legislation and call it probably the Affordable Care Law. Only difference will be the removal of the tax penalties, but the mandate will still be there and the default insurance plan for every American will be Medicare.
Fine, okay, sure. As Morpheus once said, "Show me."
Sounds like the plan to me is they are going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with the exact same legislation and call it probably the Affordable Care Law. Only difference will be the removal of the tax penalties, but the mandate will still be there and the default insurance plan for every American will be Medicare.
Fine, okay, sure. As Morpheus once said, "Show me."
The tax penalty is the mandate.
I know, but if you write the bill so that if someone doesn't sign up for an insurance plan that they are automatically covered by Medicare then you have a mandate for "INSURANCE FOR EVERYONE!" without the need for a tax penalty incentive.
Look, I know this isn't going to be the plan that congress spews forth, but it sure sounds like what Trump is advocating.
Sounds like the plan to me is they are going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with the exact same legislation and call it probably the Affordable Care Law. Only difference will be the removal of the tax penalties, but the mandate will still be there and the default insurance plan for every American will be Medicare.
Fine, okay, sure. As Morpheus once said, "Show me."
Remember they will also fix the deliberate mistakes that they introduced to make the system fail.
Watching the news this weekend I heard the dumbest shit from republicans about the ACA.
It really took me back to the good old days of when it was being passed. Only now it's even more infuriating because we have proof that it worked and it helps.
My favorite quote of the weekend had to be a guy saying that you've got to get more people to buy insurance to keep costs down but you can't have these individual and employer mandates.
Sounds like the plan to me is they are going to repeal Obamacare and replace it with the exact same legislation and call it probably the Affordable Care Law. Only difference will be the removal of the tax penalties, but the mandate will still be there and the default insurance plan for every American will be Medicare.
Fine, okay, sure. As Morpheus once said, "Show me."
If you think they're leaving in the taxes on rich people and fees for rich people shit like the Cadillac plans, you're crazy. There's a reason they're resorting to fuckery to cover up that the deficit's going to explode when they repeal it, and that's the precise reason why. They care about literally nothing else in it. As long as they're not paying for poor people to have insurance, everything else can go fuck itself.
And they get a huge money pit as an excuse to keep deregulating, lowering taxes (trickle down!), etc.
Yea, very shortly we'll be back under a GOP president so any concerns about the deficit or spending will vanish. They'll do it all off budget under some sort of "OBAMACARE RECOVERY SPENDING" bill.
On Saturday, Republican Rep. Mike Coffman held an event for his constituents at a public library in Aurora, Colorado. At least 150 constituents showed up, most of them hoping to ask Coffman about his recent vote to repeal the Affordable Care Act and his plans for a replacement. But only about 70 people got to meet with Coffman: Despite booking a large room with ample space, Coffman allowed in only four constituents at once for five minutes at a time. When the crowd grew restless, police put up crime scene tape and Coffman snuck out the back door—six minutes before the event was scheduled to end.
On Saturday, Republican Rep. Mike Coffman held an event for his constituents at a public library in Aurora, Colorado. At least 150 constituents showed up, most of them hoping to ask Coffman about his recent vote to repeal the Affordable Care Act and his plans for a replacement. But only about 70 people got to meet with Coffman: Despite booking a large room with ample space, Coffman allowed in only four constituents at once for five minutes at a time. When the crowd grew restless, police put up crime scene tape and Coffman snuck out the back door—six minutes before the event was scheduled to end.
It gets better. His reason for scurrying away like a goose was that the library needed him to free up the space.
Library's response: "no, he was welcome to take all the time he needed."
HakkekageSpace Whore Academysumma cum laudeRegistered Userregular
Well it's nice that constituents are really worried about their healthcare. Would have been nicer if they'd done that before handing over the car keys to the 10 year old who promised to crash it because it would make a totally cool fireball WATCH WATCH MOM NO HANDS
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OrcaAlso known as EspressosaurusWrexRegistered Userregular
To be fair, CO swung Clinton 48% to 43%. Not a huge margin, but this isn't Missouri. Unfortunately.
Well it's nice that constituents are really worried about their healthcare. Would have been nicer if they'd done that before handing over the car keys to the 10 year old who promised to crash it because it would make a totally cool fireball WATCH WATCH MOM NO HANDS
I've seen a lot of comments about it that seem to assume constituents and supporters are the same thing. It's entirely possible everyone who showed up was a Hillary voter.
Well it's nice that constituents are really worried about their healthcare. Would have been nicer if they'd done that before handing over the car keys to the 10 year old who promised to crash it because it would make a totally cool fireball WATCH WATCH MOM NO HANDS
I've seen a lot of comments about it that seem to assume constituents and supporters are the same thing. It's entirely possible everyone who showed up was a Hillary voter.
Which is exactly the tactic the right used during the initial ACA fight. Swarm these constituent meetings, disrupt them, create the impression of massive opposition. With convenient assistance from the media, it became a self-perpetuating thing.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
On Saturday, Republican Rep. Mike Coffman held an event for his constituents at a public library in Aurora, Colorado. At least 150 constituents showed up, most of them hoping to ask Coffman about his recent vote to repeal the Affordable Care Act and his plans for a replacement. But only about 70 people got to meet with Coffman: Despite booking a large room with ample space, Coffman allowed in only four constituents at once for five minutes at a time. When the crowd grew restless, police put up crime scene tape and Coffman snuck out the back door—six minutes before the event was scheduled to end.
It gets better. His reason for scurrying away like a goose was that the library needed him to free up the space.
Library's response: "no, he was welcome to take all the time he needed."
So my plan to cut health care costs is pretty simple:
1. Give long term felons college education.
2. Force them into biotech, healthcare and related fields.
3. Have the non-long term prisoners build self sufficient hospital-prisons that can be staffed by prisoners.
4. Enjoy the low cost health care at pennies on the dollar in terms of paying the providers! 5. My company owns all the prison hospitals while guards are paid for by the state $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
This is a more complete idea and maybe as ethical as the current one being proposed.
He's a shy overambitious dog-catcher on the wrong side of the law. She's an orphaned psychic mercenary with the power to bend men's minds. They fight crime!
On Saturday, Republican Rep. Mike Coffman held an event for his constituents at a public library in Aurora, Colorado. At least 150 constituents showed up, most of them hoping to ask Coffman about his recent vote to repeal the Affordable Care Act and his plans for a replacement. But only about 70 people got to meet with Coffman: Despite booking a large room with ample space, Coffman allowed in only four constituents at once for five minutes at a time. When the crowd grew restless, police put up crime scene tape and Coffman snuck out the back door—six minutes before the event was scheduled to end.
It gets better. His reason for scurrying away like a goose was that the library needed him to free up the space.
Library's response: "no, he was welcome to take all the time he needed."
I'm watching the Rachel Maddow repeat right now and she just got done talking about this event and another one in Ohio with Brad Wenstrup where he refused to answer questions regarding the repeal. There were a lot of video clips of people being upset that they couldn't get their questions answered, or that their congressman was voting to take away their insurance, but the one thing I didn't hear was "I voted for him". All of us here would agree that shouldn't matter, but ultimately if they don't need these constituents votes to be elected then I'm positive these congressmen (and others like them) wont care what these constituents have to say.
If these people complaining did vote for them, I just want to shake them and yell "What the fuck did you think they were going to do?! This is exactly what they campaigned on!"
I really can't help but feel that this is just way too little, way too late.
Well it's nice that constituents are really worried about their healthcare. Would have been nicer if they'd done that before handing over the car keys to the 10 year old who promised to crash it because it would make a totally cool fireball WATCH WATCH MOM NO HANDS
I've seen a lot of comments about it that seem to assume constituents and supporters are the same thing. It's entirely possible everyone who showed up was a Hillary voter.
Which is exactly the tactic the right used during the initial ACA fight. Swarm these constituent meetings, disrupt them, create the impression of massive opposition. With convenient assistance from the media, it became a self-perpetuating thing.
we need a national organization to astroturf the fuck out of this
although with trump that might not even be necessary
My insurance (through work), just almost doubled. I don't know whether to blame the greedy bastards in charge of Blue Cross Blue Shield or the greedy bastard in charge of my company. The people here with families are very upset.
My insurance (through work), just almost doubled. I don't know whether to blame the greedy bastards in charge of Blue Cross Blue Shield or the greedy bastard in charge of my company. The people here with families are very upset.
Can't we just have socialism already. please
If your premiums doubled, your company has probably been hiding the cost increases for a while. They have to report the part of it they are paying, so it should be pretty easy to find on your pay stub.
Most plans I've heard of had increases more in the 10-20% range.
My insurance (through work), just almost doubled. I don't know whether to blame the greedy bastards in charge of Blue Cross Blue Shield or the greedy bastard in charge of my company. The people here with families are very upset.
Can't we just have socialism already. please
If your premiums doubled, your company has probably been hiding the cost increases for a while. They have to report the part of it they are paying, so it should be pretty easy to find on your pay stub.
Most plans I've heard of had increases more in the 10-20% range.
It depends a lot on the state too, since the health insurance markets are pretty fragmented, and have been that way since pre-Obamacare. I've heard that some states have been much bigger basket cases that others with potential monopolization of the individual insurance market, but in my state premiums went up only around 10% for roughly the same level of coverage.
However, if you have an employer group plan, which tons of people do, then that should have separate cost movement than plans in the exchanges. If Kaputa's is an employer group plan, then it's probably either his employer or insurance company to blame, or some members of the group came down with incredibly expensive conditions and the costs are being shifted to him.
He said it's through work, buuut BCBS is in almost every state's exchange. It's possible though very unlikely they're spreading their costs over all their customers, but it wouldn't, or at least shouldn't, be that big of an increase, unless the employer also did something screwy.
So it's at least partly the employer's fault, I'm thinking
My insurance (through work), just almost doubled. I don't know whether to blame the greedy bastards in charge of Blue Cross Blue Shield or the greedy bastard in charge of my company. The people here with families are very upset.
Can't we just have socialism already. please
If your premiums doubled, your company has probably been hiding the cost increases for a while. They have to report the part of it they are paying, so it should be pretty easy to find on your pay stub.
Most plans I've heard of had increases more in the 10-20% range.
I've not heard that they have to report it on pay-stubs. There is the new-ish code "DD" on W-2's though. I'd think that'd be the best bet.
Though I found out employers don't have to provide that info if they're a sufficiently "small" business.
My insurance (through work), just almost doubled. I don't know whether to blame the greedy bastards in charge of Blue Cross Blue Shield or the greedy bastard in charge of my company. The people here with families are very upset.
Can't we just have socialism already. please
If your premiums doubled, your company has probably been hiding the cost increases for a while. They have to report the part of it they are paying, so it should be pretty easy to find on your pay stub.
Most plans I've heard of had increases more in the 10-20% range.
The idea that 10-20% growth in premiums is an acceptable level is frankly insane.
My insurance (through work), just almost doubled. I don't know whether to blame the greedy bastards in charge of Blue Cross Blue Shield or the greedy bastard in charge of my company. The people here with families are very upset.
Can't we just have socialism already. please
If your premiums doubled, your company has probably been hiding the cost increases for a while. They have to report the part of it they are paying, so it should be pretty easy to find on your pay stub.
Most plans I've heard of had increases more in the 10-20% range.
The idea that 10-20% growth in premiums is an acceptable level is frankly insane.
I wish my health insurance costs increased at such a slow rate.
If the Republicans accidentally hit on a good health plan, Democrats should still protest it, kicking and screaming. That's how Republicans know they have got something right. If SNL could do a scathing sketch against it, that would be perfect.
Haha the next 4 years is the democrats cheering on all the wackadoodle shit that the republicans want to do and booing all the stuff they would do themselves.
If the Republicans accidentally hit on a good health plan, Democrats should still protest it, kicking and screaming. That's how Republicans know they have got something right. If SNL could do a scathing sketch against it, that would be perfect.
Haha the next 4 years is the democrats cheering on all the wackadoodle shit that the republicans want to do and booing all the stuff they would do themselves.
I'm fine with Democrats showing up at GOP town hall meetings and changing the narrative. If anything its payback for the GOP doing that shit during the ACA roll out.
I would like some money because these are artisanal nuggets of wisdom philistine.
That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
Yeah this whole 10-20% thing has been every year since Obamacare started. It's really getting on my nerves. So much so that, despite getting a $1/h raise I took home less money last year.
Yeah this whole 10-20% thing has been every year since Obamacare started. It's really getting on my nerves. So much so that, despite getting a $1/h raise I took home less money last year.
Uh, the 10-20% thing predates the ACA and was in fact part of what built up the idea of trying to do something to help contain the costs.
My insurance (through work), just almost doubled. I don't know whether to blame the greedy bastards in charge of Blue Cross Blue Shield or the greedy bastard in charge of my company. The people here with families are very upset.
Can't we just have socialism already. please
If your premiums doubled, your company has probably been hiding the cost increases for a while. They have to report the part of it they are paying, so it should be pretty easy to find on your pay stub.
Most plans I've heard of had increases more in the 10-20% range.
The idea that 10-20% growth in premiums is an acceptable level is frankly insane.
I wish my health insurance costs increased at such a slow rate.
...I don't even want to consider that kind of premium growth.
The math on it is horrifying. Doubling every 4-7 years.
Yeah this whole 10-20% thing has been every year since Obamacare started. It's really getting on my nerves. So much so that, despite getting a $1/h raise I took home less money last year.
Uh, the 10-20% thing predates the ACA and was in fact part of what built up the idea of trying to do something to help contain the costs.
And average premiums dropped 30-40% in 2014 when it went into effect, while gaining significant improvements in coverage. And I believe they are still 30% below what projected costs would have been today had it not been passed.
Posts
But a lot of the GOP would get caught in that fire too. That's why some of them are frantically signalling that they don't want to go along with this
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-vows-insurance-for-everybody-in-obamacare-replacement-plan/2017/01/15/5f2b1e18-db5d-11e6-ad42-f3375f271c9c_story.html?postshare=1231484529419268&tid=ss_tw
Edit: To be clear, I am not in any way expecting Trumpcare to somehow be better than Obamacare. I just think it would be poetic if it were a medicare for everyone sort of thing.
"Uh, guys, you do... you do realize this is basically the best parts of the ACA mixed with that single payer thing we've been kicking around as a pipe dream, right?"
"... yes. We've been trying to torpedo it all week, but he's adamant, and I just cleaned up my social media profile after the last fight with his Twidiots."
"Okay. Cool, thanks."
"Look, this won't work unless you sell it. You've gotta fight this thing. Call up SNL and have them mock it for half an hour straight. If we don't put in some effort, even the least informed out there will know something is up."
Fine, okay, sure. As Morpheus once said, "Show me."
The tax penalty is the mandate.
I know, but if you write the bill so that if someone doesn't sign up for an insurance plan that they are automatically covered by Medicare then you have a mandate for "INSURANCE FOR EVERYONE!" without the need for a tax penalty incentive.
Look, I know this isn't going to be the plan that congress spews forth, but it sure sounds like what Trump is advocating.
Remember they will also fix the deliberate mistakes that they introduced to make the system fail.
It really took me back to the good old days of when it was being passed. Only now it's even more infuriating because we have proof that it worked and it helps.
My favorite quote of the weekend had to be a guy saying that you've got to get more people to buy insurance to keep costs down but you can't have these individual and employer mandates.
If you think they're leaving in the taxes on rich people and fees for rich people shit like the Cadillac plans, you're crazy. There's a reason they're resorting to fuckery to cover up that the deficit's going to explode when they repeal it, and that's the precise reason why. They care about literally nothing else in it. As long as they're not paying for poor people to have insurance, everything else can go fuck itself.
And they get a huge money pit as an excuse to keep deregulating, lowering taxes (trickle down!), etc.
It gets better. His reason for scurrying away like a goose was that the library needed him to free up the space.
Library's response: "no, he was welcome to take all the time he needed."
NNID: Hakkekage
I've seen a lot of comments about it that seem to assume constituents and supporters are the same thing. It's entirely possible everyone who showed up was a Hillary voter.
Which is exactly the tactic the right used during the initial ACA fight. Swarm these constituent meetings, disrupt them, create the impression of massive opposition. With convenient assistance from the media, it became a self-perpetuating thing.
Don't lie about librarians. We will remember.
1. Give long term felons college education.
2. Force them into biotech, healthcare and related fields.
3. Have the non-long term prisoners build self sufficient hospital-prisons that can be staffed by prisoners.
4. Enjoy the low cost health care at pennies on the dollar in terms of paying the providers!
5. My company owns all the prison hospitals while guards are paid for by the state $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
This is a more complete idea and maybe as ethical as the current one being proposed.
Hey everyone, look at @Void Slayer being soft on crime.
I'm watching the Rachel Maddow repeat right now and she just got done talking about this event and another one in Ohio with Brad Wenstrup where he refused to answer questions regarding the repeal. There were a lot of video clips of people being upset that they couldn't get their questions answered, or that their congressman was voting to take away their insurance, but the one thing I didn't hear was "I voted for him". All of us here would agree that shouldn't matter, but ultimately if they don't need these constituents votes to be elected then I'm positive these congressmen (and others like them) wont care what these constituents have to say.
If these people complaining did vote for them, I just want to shake them and yell "What the fuck did you think they were going to do?! This is exactly what they campaigned on!"
I really can't help but feel that this is just way too little, way too late.
we need a national organization to astroturf the fuck out of this
although with trump that might not even be necessary
Can't we just have socialism already. please
If your premiums doubled, your company has probably been hiding the cost increases for a while. They have to report the part of it they are paying, so it should be pretty easy to find on your pay stub.
Most plans I've heard of had increases more in the 10-20% range.
It depends a lot on the state too, since the health insurance markets are pretty fragmented, and have been that way since pre-Obamacare. I've heard that some states have been much bigger basket cases that others with potential monopolization of the individual insurance market, but in my state premiums went up only around 10% for roughly the same level of coverage.
However, if you have an employer group plan, which tons of people do, then that should have separate cost movement than plans in the exchanges. If Kaputa's is an employer group plan, then it's probably either his employer or insurance company to blame, or some members of the group came down with incredibly expensive conditions and the costs are being shifted to him.
So it's at least partly the employer's fault, I'm thinking
I've not heard that they have to report it on pay-stubs. There is the new-ish code "DD" on W-2's though. I'd think that'd be the best bet.
Though I found out employers don't have to provide that info if they're a sufficiently "small" business.
The idea that 10-20% growth in premiums is an acceptable level is frankly insane.
I wish my health insurance costs increased at such a slow rate.
Haha the next 4 years is the democrats cheering on all the wackadoodle shit that the republicans want to do and booing all the stuff they would do themselves.
It's the optimum strategy.
pleasepaypreacher.net
Uh, the 10-20% thing predates the ACA and was in fact part of what built up the idea of trying to do something to help contain the costs.
...I don't even want to consider that kind of premium growth.
The math on it is horrifying. Doubling every 4-7 years.
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And average premiums dropped 30-40% in 2014 when it went into effect, while gaining significant improvements in coverage. And I believe they are still 30% below what projected costs would have been today had it not been passed.