I think two into opportunity will provide more benefit than two into Imp SnD. CPs aren't going to be nearly as slow as in combat.
My view on it is that impSnD provides more chances for Focused Attacks which is needed for mutilates (crazy) 60 energy cost. I can see Opportunity getting picked up with 3/5 precision though.
Yes, but I don't think we'll need the extra time Imp SnD affords us the way combat did.
I could be very wrong, however. I'm more focussed on WAR now.
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
Imp SnD is worthless. SnD is 21 seconds, with cut to the chase you use a 5 point envenom once every 20 seconds and your SnD will last for infinity.
You don't need to improve rupture damage because you will be spamming envenom every opportunity.
You can't not have relentless strikes. Ever.
You have a mighty need to increase your mutilate damage by 20% while behind your enemy (which is all the time in PVE).
You don't need master poisoner because it will not stack with similar effects, and basically every paladin ever will have +3% crit from judgements.
Murder is a flat +4% dps. That is huge. Okay, so there will be a lot of undead mobs, but there are still plenty of humanoids, giants, beasts and dragonkin in Northrend instances.
Quick Recoveries +20% healing isn't actually that awesome, most healers have so much spellpower that their heals will fill you up anyway (especially considering that down ranking is no longer an option).
So from that, Fleet Footed is a better talent. +15% movement has actually been proven to increase your DPS, seeing as many fights require movement and the quicker you get there the quicker you start DPSing.
Rami on
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Esh, for yours I would probably swap those 2 points in Imp Evis for blood splatter. Since without the poison talents envenom won't be your ultimate finisher and rupture > eviscerate since it isn't mitigated by armour.
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EshTending bar. FFXIV. Motorcycles.Portland, ORRegistered Userregular
Esh, for yours I would probably swap those 2 points in Imp Evis for blood splatter. Since without the poison talents envenom won't be your ultimate finisher and rupture > eviscerate since it isn't mitigated by armour.
Not using Rupture? Sorry you should have more than enough energy to keep your SnD's going all the time and still squeeze in our highest DPS finisher in the game.
Expose Weakness seems to have been changed from 'combo abilities' to 'offensive abilities' so hopefully now that +9% damage will effect finishers as well, bringing envenom up to a nice +29% damage boost or +38% with HFB.
Rami on
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How the fuck is anyone supposed to actually utilize shadow dance?
Considering 99.9% of rogues out there bind unique keys to their characters between their stealth and non-stealth bars, does blizzard just expect us to fit 5 more on our non-stealth bars and existing keybindings? what. the. fuck.
Shitty implimentation. Shitty shitty shitty.
This is truth. The UI issues render the talent unworkable, as cool as it sounds at first.
I dunno, it just means either throwing a few abilitys on extra keys (4 keys somwhere), using a button to change bars (I have something like this on my priest, I use the middle mouse button to switch between bar 1 (healing abilitys) and 2 (damage abilitys) or waiting a week for the inevitable mod.
It's far too cumbersome, I could "Shift-Mousewheel" to my second bar, but in the heat of the battle while circle strafing someone and running through them, it's just a giant pain in the ass.
What I suggest is for certain abilities to "swap" on your non-stealth bars, like kidney shot will get temporarily turned into cheapshot, etc etc. That way you get to use the superior stealth abilities, but not sit there scrolling through stupid action bars and shit.
It's far too cumbersome, I could "Shift-Mousewheel" to my second bar, but in the heat of the battle while circle strafing someone and running through them, it's just a giant pain in the ass.
What I suggest is for certain abilities to "swap" on your non-stealth bars, like kidney shot will get temporarily turned into cheapshot, etc etc. That way you get to use the superior stealth abilities, but not sit there scrolling through stupid action bars and shit.
A simple mod, maybe a macro, could easily "if Shadow Dance is up then Kidney Shot = Cheap Shot" or whatever.
HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
Frankly I wouldn't be too surprised to see it get changed before go-live. They don't seem to know how they want this thing to function yet, and by all accounts Killing Spree is still a garbage abililty, especially for a 51 pointer, so there's lots of work to be done still. As to whether that gets done before or after 3.0 though, that's anyone's guess.
It's far too cumbersome, I could "Shift-Mousewheel" to my second bar, but in the heat of the battle while circle strafing someone and running through them, it's just a giant pain in the ass.
What I suggest is for certain abilities to "swap" on your non-stealth bars, like kidney shot will get temporarily turned into cheapshot, etc etc. That way you get to use the superior stealth abilities, but not sit there scrolling through stupid action bars and shit.
A simple mod, maybe a macro, could easily "if Shadow Dance is up then Kidney Shot = Cheap Shot" or whatever.
On my feral druid, I just take my first three slots which are my three most used normal moves, and set my stealth openers to those keys plus an alt press.
What do you really need for shadow dance other than ambush, sap, cheap shot and garrotte?
Why not hire 3 korean kids to push the buttons for you? Seems like the only reasonable way since pushing an extra button or copy pasting a macro is such a huge pain.
While I agree that there are macros that make life much, much easier (see; the paladin taunt ability for the longest time), I disagree with having to require extensive macro'ing and whatnot for a 51 point talent (and yes, I'm sure someone else will point out that another class or spec has to / should do it too, I don't think that's right either). Talents should be usable 'out of the box', with macro'ing and whatnot having the potential to make life easier. Not be requisite to playing the class.
That said, I should probably look more deeply into mutilate, as I may be spec'ing into it for raiding if we keep at it, and if it's truly the king of kings in terms of dps.
Unenchanted as they may be, I've already got a Shard and a Fang on hand for that day, should it come.
Forar on
First they came for the Muslims, and we said NOT TODAY, MOTHERFUCKER!
Why not hire 3 korean kids to push the buttons for you? Seems like the only reasonable way since pushing an extra button or copy pasting a macro is such a huge pain.
Why don't you go choke on a giant throbbing cock?
Well, that and see Forar's post above, as it mirrors my opinion.
While I agree that there are macros that make life much, much easier (see; the paladin taunt ability for the longest time), I disagree with having to require extensive macro'ing and whatnot for a 51 point talent (and yes, I'm sure someone else will point out that another class or spec has to / should do it too, I don't think that's right either). Talents should be usable 'out of the box', with macro'ing and whatnot having the potential to make life easier. Not be requisite to playing the class.
That said, I should probably look more deeply into mutilate, as I may be spec'ing into it for raiding if we keep at it, and if it's truly the king of kings in terms of dps.
Unenchanted as they may be, I've already got a Shard and a Fang on hand for that day, should it come.
Exactly. Any talent that requires a Macro to use properly is broken.
Shadow Dance was a good idea ("Let's let them use Stealth Abilities in the middle of a battle!!") that they're having a devil of a time implementing.
It's a neat ability and it dosn't require a macro/addon for it. You could keybind 4-5 extra keys (keyboards are pretty big these days, there is plenty space to accomodate this) or heck, even click them if you feel like it.
Using a macro/addon makes it a heck of a lot easier but its not required. How else could they have done it?
I don't understand how adding 4 more things onto an action bar is difficult. I mean, hunters at 70 are actually able to fill up ALL of the action bar slots with abilities, different abilities. All their aspects, melee abilities, tracking, shots, etc.
Why would you keybind tracking types? You can select them from the map icon.
I only keybind reflex stuff, combat moves basically. As well as stuff often used like bandages and mounts.
That said, I do have a warlock and hunter and it is a god damn pain in the arse binding all their shit, mostly trying to remember if I need to shift click or alt click for some rarely used ability that just so happens to be required right now.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
HalfmexI mock your value systemYou also appear foolish in the eyes of othersRegistered Userregular
edited September 2008
I think it's mostly the fact that everyone who I've read that's used it finds it cumbersome and in a tree that, let's face it, is primarily suited to PvP, that's not all too desireable a trait in a top-tier ability. Plus, Killing Spree makes sense in terms of progression from Shadowstep; an "upgrade" of sorts, in that it's a shadowstep-auto attack-sinister strike (sort of, doesn't add a combo point but still).
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Yes, but I don't think we'll need the extra time Imp SnD affords us the way combat did.
I could be very wrong, however. I'm more focussed on WAR now.
This is a combat swords build. How is Opportunity going to help me?
You've gone mad!
This is the kicking rad PVE build: mutilate
A few things:
Imp SnD is worthless. SnD is 21 seconds, with cut to the chase you use a 5 point envenom once every 20 seconds and your SnD will last for infinity.
You don't need to improve rupture damage because you will be spamming envenom every opportunity.
You can't not have relentless strikes. Ever.
You have a mighty need to increase your mutilate damage by 20% while behind your enemy (which is all the time in PVE).
You don't need master poisoner because it will not stack with similar effects, and basically every paladin ever will have +3% crit from judgements.
Murder is a flat +4% dps. That is huge. Okay, so there will be a lot of undead mobs, but there are still plenty of humanoids, giants, beasts and dragonkin in Northrend instances.
Quick Recoveries +20% healing isn't actually that awesome, most healers have so much spellpower that their heals will fill you up anyway (especially considering that down ranking is no longer an option).
So from that, Fleet Footed is a better talent. +15% movement has actually been proven to increase your DPS, seeing as many fights require movement and the quicker you get there the quicker you start DPSing.
Whoop. My bad.
Excellent point. Wasn't thinking.
Expose Weakness seems to have been changed from 'combo abilities' to 'offensive abilities' so hopefully now that +9% damage will effect finishers as well, bringing envenom up to a nice +29% damage boost or +38% with HFB.
I dunno, it just means either throwing a few abilitys on extra keys (4 keys somwhere), using a button to change bars (I have something like this on my priest, I use the middle mouse button to switch between bar 1 (healing abilitys) and 2 (damage abilitys) or waiting a week for the inevitable mod.
What I suggest is for certain abilities to "swap" on your non-stealth bars, like kidney shot will get temporarily turned into cheapshot, etc etc. That way you get to use the superior stealth abilities, but not sit there scrolling through stupid action bars and shit.
A simple mod, maybe a macro, could easily "if Shadow Dance is up then Kidney Shot = Cheap Shot" or whatever.
On my feral druid, I just take my first three slots which are my three most used normal moves, and set my stealth openers to those keys plus an alt press.
What do you really need for shadow dance other than ambush, sap, cheap shot and garrotte?
That said, I should probably look more deeply into mutilate, as I may be spec'ing into it for raiding if we keep at it, and if it's truly the king of kings in terms of dps.
Unenchanted as they may be, I've already got a Shard and a Fang on hand for that day, should it come.
Why don't you go choke on a giant throbbing cock?
Well, that and see Forar's post above, as it mirrors my opinion.
Exactly. Any talent that requires a Macro to use properly is broken.
Shadow Dance was a good idea ("Let's let them use Stealth Abilities in the middle of a battle!!") that they're having a devil of a time implementing.
Using a macro/addon makes it a heck of a lot easier but its not required. How else could they have done it?
Well that, or the chinese people I have to hire to click my buttons for me? Or, something?
tldr: I won't be speccing into the Sub 51 pointer, it is too clumsy and underwhelming to be worth it.
Now excuse me I need to go find a dick to choke on. Any volunteers?
I only keybind reflex stuff, combat moves basically. As well as stuff often used like bandages and mounts.
That said, I do have a warlock and hunter and it is a god damn pain in the arse binding all their shit, mostly trying to remember if I need to shift click or alt click for some rarely used ability that just so happens to be required right now.
but how does it work with sap? wouldn't all your nearby targets be in combat anyways? it made sense when the skill put you in stealth
You don't have to, anyone who has Arena'd will get how much of a bumblefuck this would be to co-ordinate.
I am staying muti and never changing now I can do it to their face 8-)
and impress all the other sub. rogues as I picketpocket 5 enemies at once.
... Damn, that's kinda clunky.