I don't know, I guess it just bothers me to know that there are people out there who's sole pleasure in their hobby is pissing in other people's Cheerios.
I mean, it really sounds like if these guys weren't behind a computer pulling this crap, they'd be on the street kicking puppies, or tripping old ladies, or pantsing the even more socially inept nerds on the playground.
"Sometimes that just ain't enough
to keep a man like me interested.
No, I gotta go out and have fun
at someone else's expense.
I use public toilets and piss on the seats.
I walk around in the summertime
saying 'how about this heat?'
I'm an asshole."
Griefers can definitely be annoying but I think they add to the chaotic personality of the internet.
It just wouldn't be the interwebs without goons and /b/tards.
The chick comparing them to terrorists in the article (and she's made a few posts in the comments too) is pretty crazy.
She's an effing nutter. The photo of her in a housedress making toast, combined with her quotes, leads me to believe she is one of the pajama people.
Terrorrism is when you blow up a train. E-Terrorrism is when you crash NORAD operating systems.
Denying some bloviating twat that is supplementing her income with leasing apartment space on the "internets" is griefing. And fun to read about as well.
Zahaladeen on
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Descendant XSkyrim is my god now.Outpost 31Registered Userregular
Also, the fact that wars between corp alliances happen and territory can be lost/gained. How's BoB doing on their stated mission to conquer EvE?
Basically the Goons have thrown enough corpses at them that they can't pass the wall.
It's a stalemate between BoB and the Goonfleet and their allies
Doesn't that include Merch Industrial?
Yes it does. We're the more civilized arm of the Goonswarm. Cocks dicks lol.
Descendant X on
Garry: I know you gentlemen have been through a lot, but when you find the time I'd rather not spend the rest of the winter TIED TO THIS FUCKING COUCH!
Bringing in Eve Online into any discussion about griefing in games is pointless. The game is designed to support a wide range of activities that would be blatent griefing in another context. Its a very different set of social norms than any other currently active game.
And that actually carries over to the boards where it gets discussed. For example the Eve thread in the MMO subforum here at PA gets to live by a completely different set of rules than the rest of the boards. You can't get through 2 posts in that thread finding "faggot" used as an insult or hearing that someone got "jewed". This is probably just another case of a mod being involved so its "ok" there.
They try to shrug it off as funny or cute but the eve community is a bunch of raving homophobic racist cocks and thus the social norms in eve run a bit different.
I always loved the tale of a Goon who loaded his ship up with short range, area-damaging smartbombs, flew to the most crowded market hub in all of EVE, and proceeded to start jettisoning valuable items into space while shouting "I'm quitting EVE, get your free stuff!"
I resent the implication that the goon's blowing up the titan was an act of greifing. Hell if anyone griefs it's BoB who blew up two afk titans, both of which had allegations of cheating. The goon's however, blew up an enemy asset in battle, getting upset about that is as stupid as getting angry at a pyro for killing you in TF2.
I always loved the tale of a Goon who loaded his ship up with short range, area-damaging smartbombs, flew to the most crowded market hub in all of EVE, and proceeded to start jettisoning valuable items into space while shouting "I'm quitting EVE, get your free stuff!"
Oh man, I needed that laugh so much.
Gosling on
I have a new soccer blog The Minnow Tank. Reading it psychically kicks Sepp Blatter in the bean bag.
I always loved the tale of a Goon who loaded his ship up with short range, area-damaging smartbombs, flew to the most crowded market hub in all of EVE, and proceeded to start jettisoning valuable items into space while shouting "I'm quitting EVE, get your free stuff!"
Oh man, I needed that laugh so much.
Reminds me of when people figure out how to damage people in the auction house or bank in WoW. Any small amount of damage can do it, since tons of people use level 1 banking accounts. It's funny to see 50+ people die in one area of effect hit.
The thing about EVE is, I don't understand what would persuade someone to pay real-life money to practice living in an anarchical society, without an intent to capitalize on the environment and grief someone else for their own profit. It's essentially the best setting for John Gabriel's Internet Fuckwad theory to take hold, with the additional bonus of more rewards for assholitude than just cheap laughs.
The thing about EVE is, I don't understand what would persuade someone to pay real-life money to practice living in an anarchical society, without an intent to capitalize on the environment and grief someone else for their own profit. It's essentially the best setting for John Gabriel's Internet Fuckwad theory to take hold, with the additional bonus of more rewards for assholitude than just cheap laughs.
She's an effing nutter. The photo of her in a housedress making toast, combined with her quotes, leads me to believe she is one of the pajama people.
Terrorrism is when you blow up a train. E-Terrorrism is when you crash NORAD operating systems.
Denying some bloviating twat that is supplementing her income with leasing apartment space on the "internets" is griefing. And fun to read about as well.
Calling it terrorism is a little silly, because there's really no organizing principle behind it, aside from the love of being a dick. However, they are causing financial harm by sabotaging an online service this woman is providing, and what the fuck is that about? Because she's fat and takes herself seriously that makes it okay?
Griefing strikes me as pretty unambiguously shitty. Because you're doing it online doesn't make you not an asshole.
Regarding all the "OMG TITAN KILLS" mentions, here: perhaps my memory is fuzzy, but isn't it the case that the primary strategy for killing Titans is/was taking as many ships as you can and ramming them into a Titan to take advantage of crappy netcode that would cause a player to become desynchronized if they were bumped while warping and thus being unable to really do anything?
Or how about that time three guys with Titans got together to warp into enemy shield towers (or whatever the hell), which would bump both them (because warping into shields causes you to be pushed out when you come out of warp) and the people inside (because a giant fucking ship warped into the shield and the smaller ships get pushed away to make room), at which point they could instantly destroy the ships, completely bypassing the mechanic?
Whenever I hear the throngs of EvE bastards slobbering all over the game they never seem to mention the huge exploits, bad netcode, and poor design that go along with it.
Calling it terrorism is a little silly, because there's really no organizing principle behind it, aside from the love of being a dick. However, they are causing financial harm by sabotaging an online service this woman is providing, and what the fuck is that about? Because she's fat and takes herself seriously that makes it okay?
Griefing strikes me as pretty unambiguously shitty. Because you're doing it online doesn't make you not an asshole.
They are more or less acting within the bounds of the game world though. If people accept the rules and make money off of them, they don't get the right to bitch when others are doing stuff to make that more difficult, so long as they aren't actually using exploits.
I mean, I'll grief the hell out of gold farmers because it's funny. It causes them financial harm, but that doesn't keep me from camping their corpse until I get bored.
Doc on
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MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
They are more or less acting within the bounds of the game world though. If people accept the rules and make money off of them, they don't get the right to bitch when others are doing stuff to make that more difficult, so long as they aren't actually using exploits.
Presumably, raining down immobilizing "get to the chopper" cubes on people isn't actually allowed, which is why they can get banned for it.
I mean, I'll grief the hell out of gold farmers because it's funny. It causes them financial harm, but that doesn't keep me from camping their corpse until I get bored.
I never got into the torturing-other-people-is-funny thing. At least, not with strangers online.
MrMister on
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SteevLWhat can I do for you?Registered Userregular
I always loved the tale of a Goon who loaded his ship up with short range, area-damaging smartbombs, flew to the most crowded market hub in all of EVE, and proceeded to start jettisoning valuable items into space while shouting "I'm quitting EVE, get your free stuff!"
Oh man, I needed that laugh so much.
Reminds me of when people figure out how to damage people in the auction house or bank in WoW. Any small amount of damage can do it, since tons of people use level 1 banking accounts. It's funny to see 50+ people die in one area of effect hit.
She's an effing nutter. The photo of her in a housedress making toast, combined with her quotes, leads me to believe she is one of the pajama people.
Terrorrism is when you blow up a train. E-Terrorrism is when you crash NORAD operating systems.
Denying some bloviating twat that is supplementing her income with leasing apartment space on the "internets" is griefing. And fun to read about as well.
Calling it terrorism is a little silly, because there's really no organizing principle behind it, aside from the love of being a dick. However, they are causing financial harm by sabotaging an online service this woman is providing, and what the fuck is that about? Because she's fat and takes herself seriously that makes it okay?
Yes.
There is this bloke in WOW called Renaud AKA Blackweb from the Skullcrusher server. Anyone who has ever played a Pally knows who this guy is and is universally hated. He is opinionated, never wrong, and has no compunction to calling you an idiot if you do not agree with him. Universally hated, and that was okay.
This dozy bint Prokofy Neva AKA Catherine Fitzpatrick is the worst sort of self-promoting blog/post whore you could imagine. For the last hour I spent reading info on her and... that was an hour I will never get back. Ever. An hour spent on a person I wouldn't waste piss on if their face was on fire.
In the end, some people just suck and suck so hard they bring it on themselves. She is one of them.
On another tangent, what she is doing is playing or interacting in a virtual world that exists beyond her control. If she wishes to sink money into it hoping to reap a reward from it, then so be it. But she should be smart enough to realize that trying to make money in an MMO (if Second Life can be classified as such) is tough and not without significant risk. She's QQ'ing because she's being griefed online? Not because of play, but because it's effecting her pocketbook? Piss off, you silly cunt. Welcome to the Internets, where the light at the end of the series of tubes is a train run by a squad of Goonies.
If you want to invest time, talent, and money into real estate then buy a lot in Tempe, Arizona. Not online.
Zahaladeen on
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MrMisterJesus dying on the cross in pain? Morally better than us. One has to go "all in".Registered Userregular
My problem with the Griefer philosophy (as put forth by the article linked) is that intangible things really do affect people. Dancing penises ruining an interview, spontaneous Predator re-enactments forcing you to log off, nothing physical is really lost there. But in my eyes it's the same thing as swooping in and stealing a parking spot from someone who's obviously waiting for it. Sure, nothing's lost except for some time, but as was stated in the article, morale is a commodity.
I mean, I'll grief the hell out of gold farmers because it's funny. It causes them financial harm, but that doesn't keep me from camping their corpse until I get bored.
I never got into the torturing-other-people-is-funny thing. At least, not with strangers online.
Yes, thank you! I think this article takes way too tolerant of a tone with griefing. It shouldn't be evaluated based on its practical impact, but on emotional impact. Does the fact that people pour their emotional energies into something that doesn't exist in physical space mean that it's ok to destroy it and take enjoyment from their distress? I am highly disturbed by their conclusion, which seems to be "Stop caring about things on the Internet, then griefers won't bother you." They are practically placing the blame for the conflict on the victims. If I were to vandalize some car that somebody has been working on as a hobby (and not for transportation), no one would ever consider telling the guy "It's not wrong because you shouldn't care so much about the car in the first place." The fact that it's someone's videogame character and not a car shouldn't lessen the seriousness of the offense. Griefers are bullies, and bullying is never right, and that is all there to it.
Having said that, I think there does exist such a thing as harmless pranks. I actually thought the dancing pink dildo thing would have been pretty funny, if it had occurred in some random public square instead of a serious interview.
Unless you are a PVP neophyte, everyone at one point or another has been camped or griefed. And likewise has in turn camped or griefed someone else. Reciprocity, Mr. Mister. Look it up.
That having been said, I would never wipe a 25-man raid on purpose, nor steal an instance reset, nor crash someone's vent server, etc. Ninja's = corpse camp.
Yeah but you seem to have a broader definition of "has it coming" than most.
What... if they gank me during farming mats for a run? Sure, I'll gank them back. If it's someone that ninja'd from me or a guildie I'll get on an alt and camp them until I get run off.
I only bollocks people who have in turned bollocksed me, or have committed a crime so foul they are deserving of a slap. Otherwise I am live and let live.
I mean, I'll grief the hell out of gold farmers because it's funny. It causes them financial harm, but that doesn't keep me from camping their corpse until I get bored.
I never got into the torturing-other-people-is-funny thing. At least, not with strangers online.
Yes, thank you! I think this article takes way too tolerant of a tone with griefing. It shouldn't be evaluated based on its practical impact, but on emotional impact. Does the fact that people pour their emotional energies into something that doesn't exist in physical space mean that it's ok to destroy it and take enjoyment from their distress? I am highly disturbed by their conclusion, which seems to be "Stop caring about things on the Internet, then griefers won't bother you." They are practically placing the blame for the conflict on the victims. If I were to vandalize some car that somebody has been working on as a hobby (and not for transportation), no one would ever consider telling the guy "It's not wrong because you shouldn't care so much about the car in the first place." The fact that it's someone's videogame character and not a car shouldn't lessen the seriousness of the offense. Griefers are bullies, and bullying is never right, and that is all there to it.
Having said that, I think there does exist such a thing as harmless pranks. I actually thought the dancing pink dildo thing would have been pretty funny, if it had occurred in some random public square instead of a serious interview.
While in-game harassment of people and griefing are outside the spirit of the game and deplorable, and bothering people in general makes you a dick, I can't say the same thing about the destruction of that EVE ship the OP brought up. There's a difference between attacking a player emotionally (as the Goons do in EVE, by trying to make people so unhappy they stop playing), and destroying their in-game assets which are meant to be destructible. One is anti-social behaviour, the other is just part of the game. People are justified in complaining about the former, but not the latter.
There is this bloke in WOW called Renaud AKA Blackweb from the Skullcrusher server. Anyone who has ever played a Pally knows who this guy is and is universally hated. He is opinionated, never wrong, and has no compunction to calling you an idiot if you do not agree with him. Universally hated, and that was okay.
This dozy bint Prokofy Neva AKA Catherine Fitzpatrick is the worst sort of self-promoting blog/post whore you could imagine. For the last hour I spent reading info on her and... that was an hour I will never get back. Ever. An hour spent on a person I wouldn't waste piss on if their face was on fire.
In the end, some people just suck and suck so hard they bring it on themselves. She is one of them.
I only bollocks people who have in turned bollocksed me, or have committed a crime so foul they are deserving of a slap. Otherwise I am live and let live.
Or, apparently, people you just dislike for whatever reason you feel like coming up with.
Yeah but you seem to have a broader definition of "has it coming" than most.
What... if they gank me during farming mats for a run? Sure, I'll gank them back. If it's someone that ninja'd from me or a guildie I'll get on an alt and camp them until I get run off.
I only bollocks people who have in turned bollocksed me, or have committed a crime so foul they are deserving of a slap. Otherwise I am live and let live.
I'm pretty much the same way, but above you said what sounded like "these people who are self-righteous or opinionated deserved what they got". How does that translate?
Yeah but you seem to have a broader definition of "has it coming" than most.
What... if they gank me during farming mats for a run? Sure, I'll gank them back. If it's someone that ninja'd from me or a guildie I'll get on an alt and camp them until I get run off.
I only bollocks people who have in turned bollocksed me, or have committed a crime so foul they are deserving of a slap. Otherwise I am live and let live.
I'm pretty much the same way, but above you said what sounded like "these people who are self-righteous or opinionated deserved what they got". How does that translate?
Renaud and Catherine have it coming. You wouldn't, nor would Garthor. Being cheeky isn't a crime, just being a disfunctional git.
While in-game harassment of people and griefing are outside the spirit of the game and deplorable, and bothering people in general makes you a dick, I can't say the same thing about the destruction of that EVE ship the OP brought up. There's a difference between attacking a player emotionally (as the Goons do in EVE, by trying to make people so unhappy they stop playing), and destroying their in-game assets which are meant to be destructible. One is anti-social behaviour, the other is just part of the game. People are justified in complaining about the former, but not the latter.
I don't know anything about EvE, and, based on the posts from people who seem more informed about the game than I am, I'm also not completely sold on the event as represented in the article. I was more talking about griefing in general, though I guess destruction of property wasn't the best example. But yes, social interactions hold the same validity in my eyes, regardless of whether it takes place "IRL" or online, and the real-life analogue of griefing would never be tolerated by any civilized person, so I don't see why it should be taken more lightly just because it occurs through a medium that is relatively new.
The article also mistakes ITGs for griefers, it seems. No, there is no reason to take ITGs seriously, because they will probably never make good on their threats.
I don't know anything about this Catherine person from Second Life, but no one deserves many of the things the article talked about. Her calling what happened "terrorism" makes me less inclined to be sympathetic, because that seems to be a melodramatic over-reaction and high-flown rhetoric, but there's no denying that what was done to her was at best of questionable taste.
I don't think calling it terrorism is quite as far off the mark as people are saying. Terrorism is basically getting people to behave a certain way through the use of fear. Get out of our country or we'll blow up your buildings, and that sort of thing. Yeah, there's usually an idealogical backing to terrorism, but I think for the sake of argument the "goal" is the same.
Posts
Basically the Goons have thrown enough corpses at them that they can't pass the wall.
I mean, it really sounds like if these guys weren't behind a computer pulling this crap, they'd be on the street kicking puppies, or tripping old ladies, or pantsing the even more socially inept nerds on the playground.
"Sometimes that just ain't enough
to keep a man like me interested.
No, I gotta go out and have fun
at someone else's expense.
I use public toilets and piss on the seats.
I walk around in the summertime
saying 'how about this heat?'
I'm an asshole."
Doesn't that include Merch Industrial?
It just wouldn't be the interwebs without goons and /b/tards.
The chick comparing them to terrorists in the article (and she's made a few posts in the comments too) is pretty crazy.
Yup.
Yes indeed sir.
She's an effing nutter. The photo of her in a housedress making toast, combined with her quotes, leads me to believe she is one of the pajama people.
Terrorrism is when you blow up a train. E-Terrorrism is when you crash NORAD operating systems.
Denying some bloviating twat that is supplementing her income with leasing apartment space on the "internets" is griefing. And fun to read about as well.
Yes it does. We're the more civilized arm of the Goonswarm. Cocks dicks lol.
That's saying something scary when the PA people are described as more civilized. :P
And that actually carries over to the boards where it gets discussed. For example the Eve thread in the MMO subforum here at PA gets to live by a completely different set of rules than the rest of the boards. You can't get through 2 posts in that thread finding "faggot" used as an insult or hearing that someone got "jewed". This is probably just another case of a mod being involved so its "ok" there.
They try to shrug it off as funny or cute but the eve community is a bunch of raving homophobic racist cocks and thus the social norms in eve run a bit different.
Reminds me of when people figure out how to damage people in the auction house or bank in WoW. Any small amount of damage can do it, since tons of people use level 1 banking accounts. It's funny to see 50+ people die in one area of effect hit.
It's a corruption of "LOL"
Some players exist only so they can griefed.
Calling it terrorism is a little silly, because there's really no organizing principle behind it, aside from the love of being a dick. However, they are causing financial harm by sabotaging an online service this woman is providing, and what the fuck is that about? Because she's fat and takes herself seriously that makes it okay?
Griefing strikes me as pretty unambiguously shitty. Because you're doing it online doesn't make you not an asshole.
Or how about that time three guys with Titans got together to warp into enemy shield towers (or whatever the hell), which would bump both them (because warping into shields causes you to be pushed out when you come out of warp) and the people inside (because a giant fucking ship warped into the shield and the smaller ships get pushed away to make room), at which point they could instantly destroy the ships, completely bypassing the mechanic?
Whenever I hear the throngs of EvE bastards slobbering all over the game they never seem to mention the huge exploits, bad netcode, and poor design that go along with it.
They are more or less acting within the bounds of the game world though. If people accept the rules and make money off of them, they don't get the right to bitch when others are doing stuff to make that more difficult, so long as they aren't actually using exploits.
I mean, I'll grief the hell out of gold farmers because it's funny. It causes them financial harm, but that doesn't keep me from camping their corpse until I get bored.
Presumably, raining down immobilizing "get to the chopper" cubes on people isn't actually allowed, which is why they can get banned for it.
I never got into the torturing-other-people-is-funny thing. At least, not with strangers online.
Just thought I'd go ahead and link the video of Biny's Auction House Bomb here for illustration.
My Backloggery
Yes.
There is this bloke in WOW called Renaud AKA Blackweb from the Skullcrusher server. Anyone who has ever played a Pally knows who this guy is and is universally hated. He is opinionated, never wrong, and has no compunction to calling you an idiot if you do not agree with him. Universally hated, and that was okay.
This dozy bint Prokofy Neva AKA Catherine Fitzpatrick is the worst sort of self-promoting blog/post whore you could imagine. For the last hour I spent reading info on her and... that was an hour I will never get back. Ever. An hour spent on a person I wouldn't waste piss on if their face was on fire.
In the end, some people just suck and suck so hard they bring it on themselves. She is one of them.
On another tangent, what she is doing is playing or interacting in a virtual world that exists beyond her control. If she wishes to sink money into it hoping to reap a reward from it, then so be it. But she should be smart enough to realize that trying to make money in an MMO (if Second Life can be classified as such) is tough and not without significant risk. She's QQ'ing because she's being griefed online? Not because of play, but because it's effecting her pocketbook? Piss off, you silly cunt. Welcome to the Internets, where the light at the end of the series of tubes is a train run by a squad of Goonies.
If you want to invest time, talent, and money into real estate then buy a lot in Tempe, Arizona. Not online.
You're welcome.
Yes, thank you! I think this article takes way too tolerant of a tone with griefing. It shouldn't be evaluated based on its practical impact, but on emotional impact. Does the fact that people pour their emotional energies into something that doesn't exist in physical space mean that it's ok to destroy it and take enjoyment from their distress? I am highly disturbed by their conclusion, which seems to be "Stop caring about things on the Internet, then griefers won't bother you." They are practically placing the blame for the conflict on the victims. If I were to vandalize some car that somebody has been working on as a hobby (and not for transportation), no one would ever consider telling the guy "It's not wrong because you shouldn't care so much about the car in the first place." The fact that it's someone's videogame character and not a car shouldn't lessen the seriousness of the offense. Griefers are bullies, and bullying is never right, and that is all there to it.
Having said that, I think there does exist such a thing as harmless pranks. I actually thought the dancing pink dildo thing would have been pretty funny, if it had occurred in some random public square instead of a serious interview.
Unless you are a PVP neophyte, everyone at one point or another has been camped or griefed. And likewise has in turn camped or griefed someone else. Reciprocity, Mr. Mister. Look it up.
That having been said, I would never wipe a 25-man raid on purpose, nor steal an instance reset, nor crash someone's vent server, etc. Ninja's = corpse camp.
I never camped anyone who didn't have it coming.
What... if they gank me during farming mats for a run? Sure, I'll gank them back. If it's someone that ninja'd from me or a guildie I'll get on an alt and camp them until I get run off.
I only bollocks people who have in turned bollocksed me, or have committed a crime so foul they are deserving of a slap. Otherwise I am live and let live.
While in-game harassment of people and griefing are outside the spirit of the game and deplorable, and bothering people in general makes you a dick, I can't say the same thing about the destruction of that EVE ship the OP brought up. There's a difference between attacking a player emotionally (as the Goons do in EVE, by trying to make people so unhappy they stop playing), and destroying their in-game assets which are meant to be destructible. One is anti-social behaviour, the other is just part of the game. People are justified in complaining about the former, but not the latter.
Or, apparently, people you just dislike for whatever reason you feel like coming up with.
I'm pretty much the same way, but above you said what sounded like "these people who are self-righteous or opinionated deserved what they got". How does that translate?
Renaud and Catherine have it coming. You wouldn't, nor would Garthor. Being cheeky isn't a crime, just being a disfunctional git.
I don't know anything about EvE, and, based on the posts from people who seem more informed about the game than I am, I'm also not completely sold on the event as represented in the article. I was more talking about griefing in general, though I guess destruction of property wasn't the best example. But yes, social interactions hold the same validity in my eyes, regardless of whether it takes place "IRL" or online, and the real-life analogue of griefing would never be tolerated by any civilized person, so I don't see why it should be taken more lightly just because it occurs through a medium that is relatively new.
The article also mistakes ITGs for griefers, it seems. No, there is no reason to take ITGs seriously, because they will probably never make good on their threats.