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Is this inappropriate?
Shawnasee
Registered User regular
Registered User regular
I have a question of appropriateness for you all.
My wifes ex boyfriends (3 of them) have seperated/divorced/broken up with their significant others and have decided to call my wife after all these years.
Thats fine...I roll my eyes and shrug it off. Although irritating because she doesn't see it as the obvious man ploy it is. Still, it's fine.
However, she is in another state (her home state) for work and has been gone since the day after Thanksgiving. Well, she calls me last night and tells me that she just got done dropping her ex boyf off after a visit to a energy healer. My wife and I are into that kind of thing...actually she got me into it and this particular healer was my introduction into the whole thing.
Now the first ex to call is getting divorced and my wife gave this guy the healers #. So he goes and loves it and is now taking classes. Great. From the poems he was sending my wife (poems not FOR her) he needs something positive in his life.
The next ex, however, seeing as how she was in the state, either asked her to go with him or she volunteered and she sat in on the session with him.
Now these sessions are of a deeply personal nature and for my wife and I, very spiritual. I thought it was kind of special that she was with me my first time. Either she thought it wasn't that special or personal or she wanted to be their with her ex as well.
Now I will admit that I am jealous that she was there with him during such a personal and spiritual experience. It's something I would have rather she just shared with me but it's not a deal breaker. It hurts but it's not a deal breaker.
What is upsetting and inappropriate is that she had been talking to this particular ex since before she left for work (almost a month) and never told me until AFTER she accompanied him to this energy healer.
She says she didn't tell me because she knew I would be upset. Well damnit, if you know your significant other is going to be upset at something you do, don't you a) stop doing it or b) talk about it with your significant other?
Then she tells me that she wants to or he wants her to go with him to a drug and alcohol meeting tonight.
I trust my wife. I know she would never cheat on me but there was a time early on in our marriage when I didn't. We have had our counseling and that was a tremendous help for both of us but somethings are just inappropriate.
Is this one of those things?
Am I out of line or over reacting by being incredulous that she has hid this from me? That she might still go with him to another deeply personal thing makes me cringe and quite frankly makes me sad and disappointed.
Please tell me if I am being a drama queen.
My wifes ex boyfriends (3 of them) have seperated/divorced/broken up with their significant others and have decided to call my wife after all these years.
Thats fine...I roll my eyes and shrug it off. Although irritating because she doesn't see it as the obvious man ploy it is. Still, it's fine.
However, she is in another state (her home state) for work and has been gone since the day after Thanksgiving. Well, she calls me last night and tells me that she just got done dropping her ex boyf off after a visit to a energy healer. My wife and I are into that kind of thing...actually she got me into it and this particular healer was my introduction into the whole thing.
Now the first ex to call is getting divorced and my wife gave this guy the healers #. So he goes and loves it and is now taking classes. Great. From the poems he was sending my wife (poems not FOR her) he needs something positive in his life.
The next ex, however, seeing as how she was in the state, either asked her to go with him or she volunteered and she sat in on the session with him.
Now these sessions are of a deeply personal nature and for my wife and I, very spiritual. I thought it was kind of special that she was with me my first time. Either she thought it wasn't that special or personal or she wanted to be their with her ex as well.
Now I will admit that I am jealous that she was there with him during such a personal and spiritual experience. It's something I would have rather she just shared with me but it's not a deal breaker. It hurts but it's not a deal breaker.
What is upsetting and inappropriate is that she had been talking to this particular ex since before she left for work (almost a month) and never told me until AFTER she accompanied him to this energy healer.
She says she didn't tell me because she knew I would be upset. Well damnit, if you know your significant other is going to be upset at something you do, don't you a) stop doing it or b) talk about it with your significant other?
Then she tells me that she wants to or he wants her to go with him to a drug and alcohol meeting tonight.
I trust my wife. I know she would never cheat on me but there was a time early on in our marriage when I didn't. We have had our counseling and that was a tremendous help for both of us but somethings are just inappropriate.
Is this one of those things?
Am I out of line or over reacting by being incredulous that she has hid this from me? That she might still go with him to another deeply personal thing makes me cringe and quite frankly makes me sad and disappointed.
Please tell me if I am being a drama queen.
Shawnasee on
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For Christ's sake, she's your wife dude she shouldn't be hanging out with her ex-boyfriends...a once in a while call, sure, a reccommendation for a healer, great, but driving these motherfuckers around? Going to little one-on-one meetings in secret with them? Just generally hanging out?
Big fucking no-no
Red flag. She's your wife, not your high school girlfriend. If this is a serious issue to you tell her you're not ok with it. If she's just going to ignore you and go anyway you have bigger problems.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Unless she has given you a reason to be suspicious in the past, then I think that you are probably overreacting a little. The second issue is whether you've actually talked to her about this (in a non-accusatory manner) and she continues to do these things knowing that they will bother you. Now, she could be continuing to do them because in her eyes they are harmless and you are overreacting, or she could be doing them because she does not have regard for how they make you feel. The only way to find out is to have a conversation about it. Either way, you would probably benefit from more counseling.
You know her better than we do, is she someone who often continues to have platonic relationships with ex's? I think that all the people who are saying it's inappropriate as a rule are over-simplifying things and ignoring the fact that there's a lot here we don't know. Lots of people remain friends with ex's. The worst thing you could possibly do right now is either accuse her of cheating or lay down an ultimatum saying who she can and can't spend time with. Those would be big, huge mistakes, would create huge issues where there aren't necessarily right now, and what do you think she's going to do when you and her have that big fight? She's going to the other people in her life for emotional support and right now those people are exactly the ones you don't want her seeing.
The healers situation reminds me of John Redcorn.
But yeah, being involved at such a personal level with the guys (AA, healers, etc.) is not approprite. Sounds like she's a very friendly/caring person who may be completly innocent, but needs to understand that being that deep with an ex isn't cool.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
There's not enough here to say whether this is inappropriate as a rule...the only real danger sign is that she's doing things and not telling him about them. But we're only getting one side of the story, it's completely possible that the OP is a crazy, jealous, controlling nutjob and has given her reason to not mention things that are harmless but will set him off. That's why it's important for HIM to talk rationally and non-accusatorially with HER, and for them to also get back to counseling.
Ergo it's inappropriate.
As much as she might want to help out her ex-boyfriends during their time of need, she should be sensitive to your feelings first and foremost. That's one of those sacrifices you make when you agree to marry someone - they take precedence over anyone else from there on (baring any children you may have in the future).
Oh god this is so not good advice. Again, we only have one side of the story. This is exactly the sort of thing an emotionally abusive and controlling person would say to their spouse to control their actions. It may be inappropriate and it may not be, whether it bothers him is mutually exclusive to that. Maybe he's super jealous, and he gets upset when she talks to male check out people at the supermarket. Does that make talking to male supermarket employees inappropriate?
I'm glad we are diagnosing the wife without her side of things o_O
Make sure she knows that she needs to communicate with you about these things she does that she "knows you'll be mad about". This doesn't mean she needs to be clearing everything she does with you, but if she thinks something is fine to do, she should try and convince you of the same. And you should be open minded for this.
Remember that she's your wife so she probably doesn't have nefarious motives for her actions. It sounds like these guys she's visiting are in bad spots so she's trying to help them the best way she can. She might have known you were sensitive about that sort of thing, so she tried to shield you from it to protect your feelings. Recognize and appreciate the good intentions behind that action, but point out to her that you value communication with her and you'd rather be mad for a little while than be put in the dark.
It's up to the both of you to figure out together whether she should continue going with her exes. Either she will continue to do it with your honest, sincere encouragement or she should cut off contact. No one here has the authority to say which decision is the right one.
If you want my opinion, I'd say she had the right intentions to help out those that she heard were in trouble. She was wrong in keeping you in the dark, but beyond that as long as you really trust her I don't see why she shouldn't help people in trouble.
As for all the people immediately flipping out about how "inappropriate" this is: I'd disagree. You don't know her, the OP does (quite well actually considering they're married) and he says he trusts her. By immediately regarding her actions as absolutely wrong you're giving shoddy advice. Both sides have something to learn from this.
I am sorry to say this, but when I read situations like this, I feel happy I am not married.
I'm sorry, I guess I have to spell out the fact that there should be discussion and communication and a sharing of opinions regarding the matter between the two partners rather than just demanding she stop doing anything that troubles him because Szechuanosaurus from the internet says so. I forget it's too much to expect maturity to be applied to advice given.
Of course there's nothing inherently inappropriate about a wife staying friends with ex-boyfriends, but if it makes the husband feel uncomfortable then it should most certainly be discussed and it wouldn't be completely unreasonable to ask her to stop seeing them if she honestly cares for her husbands feelings. She could certainly refuse, but it's a perfectly reasonable request. The same goes for a husband staying friends with ex-girlfriends. Some relationships are comfortable with exes still being on the scene but plenty of relationships mutually eliminate exes without it ever being explicitly requested. It's perfectly normal to break off all contact with ex-lovers when you partner up with someone new and quite reasonable to assume this would be the arrangement without having to ask. Indeed, this is usually consider normal, appropriate behaviour for husbands and wives. Remaining in close contact with ex-lovers is the exception, not the norm.
A few months ago she starts talking with 2 of her ex boyfriends. One recently broke up with his girlfriend and is trying to come crawling back to her, and I know this because he's tried it before in the past. The other is afraid he might break up with his girlfriend and is coming to her for "advice". We were about a month away from moving in together, so I needed to act on this. I told her that if we were going to move in together that I didn't think she should be seeing these guys for a while because it creates a tricky situation. I justified it by pointing out that I had sacrificed a friendship or two to keep the relationship alive, and I at least deserved that level of effort from her. She's still casual friends with them but we agreed that it would be a good idea if she didn't hang out with them in person unless I was also there, to avoid suspicions and to make it clear to the guys that there was no chance for them.
The main issue with these guys is that they are reaching out to her after their own relationships are ending. It would be one thing if they had been friends all along, but this is not the case. I doubt their motives are entirely innocent, and it is inappropriate for your wife to see them without telling you.
Fair enough. I can agree with that. I would just add that remaining in close contact with exes is not inherently dubious or malicious.
Really make sure she knows why you're getting jealous. Tell her how important your sessions with her are and tell her it makes you uncomfortable to think she's sharing that with someone else.
Can I ask why you're in different states?
Helping others who you believe to be in danger but can only be helped by you at personal risk is a martyr complex. It's not a bad thing, I have one, lots of "lawful good" people have one.
I think so too...on both accounts. I doubt I would call it a complex but she is definitely into helping others.
Thats something I love about her. But I also think she is an enabler.
As for keeping in touch with old friends, well, this particular ex, she has not been in contact with for at least three years.
The last time she talked to him, before this as far as I know, was a couple months after we got married. He called her and after she gets off the phone she just starts bawling. She wasn't "I miss him" or anything like that but he was her first love and I guess there were still some feelings there. At the time I was confused about the whole thing. Why on earth is she crying over some guy she hasn't talked to in 5 years?
She JUST now reminded me about a time when we discussed this guy.
"I remember telling you that he was somebody I really cared about even though he was a retard and that if ever one day he was sick and had no one to care for him I would want to take him in. You told me I better hope that never happened and we left it at that with no further discussion.
I have a big heart and though it's very hard on you sometimes, I think it's one of the reasons you love me.
I really am sorry that I was hesitant to share everything."
I think the last part it what hurts the most. The fact she didn't tell me makes me think the worst.
Again, I trust her, I know she wouldn't cheat on me...and here is the inevitable 'but'...but this is someone who she is experiencing deeply personal things with at a time when they are both very emotional (her sister committed suicide over the summer and she is staying with her Mom who she doesn't like at the moment because of things stemming from the suicide). Add to this that she has/had deep feelings for him and I quickly become anxious and scared.
I mean I don't want to be hearing this conversation later on:
"We were both crying about his hardships and he was telling me what a failure he's become and I just wanted to give him some support and comfort him and you know how it is when you come out from the energy healer? You're tired and unfocused and it just happened. I gave him a hug and then he said he couldn't do it without me and kissed me and then we were kissing. I just got caught up in the moment. Everything was so emotional and those old feelings for him stirred and then things happened. I'm sorry."
That could happen to anyone and it has. I'm sure someone has had this same type of experience or heard this missive in some form or another. I don't want to hear it...in any form.
I wasn't angry or accusatory when I talked to her last night. I was angry, actually, but I wasn't yelling down the phone at her or calling her names. I told her it was her decision on whether she goes with him tonight or she doesn't. Thats up to her.
The keeping it a secret is really painful.
I'm also kind of upset that she's being naive. Guys don't call girlfriends from years past...ex's they haven't talked to but for a couple times in 5-8 years...suddenly asking for help. They call to get a piece of ass. Men do this when they get out of a relationship...it's just the way it is. They are looking for validation and some stroking of the ego and where better to get it than an old flame?
The disappointing thing is if this were another couple she would know what the ex is up to but when it comes to her, well, to her it just wouldn't happen that way. She's TOO trusting.
Yes, counseling is again on the horizon.
What should I say to her now though?
If she went out of her way to hide this from you and even lies about it, that would e a bad sign. If she chose not to tell you, it is a small small red flag. You also shouldn't feel like she needs to change what she has chosen to do in order to make you happy. Being in a relationship is not about making changes to make the other person happy, it is about being with someone who can be happy with you even if you make choices that they wouldn't make.
I asked a friend the other day if I could feel her breasts. They're huge. I know my fiance wouldn't care (trust me, I know) if I did it. However, if I told her about it, it would sound like I was bragging about it or trying to bring it up for a reason.
Did you read the OP? They haven't stayed friends, they haven't even talked in years. It's only now that they are single again are they contacting her and yes that's the oldest trick in the book. If my bf's ex started suddenly wanting to talk and hang out after 2 years of nothing I'd be pretty uncomfortable too. If he did it behind my back I'd hit the ceiling.
OP just tell her you need to go to counseling ASAP and make it clear that if she keeps doing this it'll only make things harder for you to work out and will only put more strain on the relationship.
Personally, I'd put my foot down and let her know she can keep seeing him regularly or she can keep seeing me regularly because it sure as shit wouldn't be both.
The disappointing thing is if this were another couple she would know what the ex is up to but when it comes to her, well, to her it just wouldn't happen that way. She's TOO trusting."
That works pretty well.
Just realize she's going to disagree, and be willing to calmly discuss this, with the idea in your mind that, hey, she could even be right. I'm not saying she is, I'm saying she might be.
On the plus side, she's a very "good" person. The one problem is sometimes good people will lie to achieve a greater good. Often times this spirals out of control and well, then you have a Nathaniel Hawthorne story.
I don't want to sound like I'm telling you to "man up," but everyone has their secrets. Granted, once it escalated to kissing, that secret became one she is no longer allowed to keep/pursue. I know, she's your wife and you're the only one that should be kissing her romantically, but it is just a kiss. It's a big deal and it sucks, but it's hardly the end of the world. I recommend counseling just for her, not necessarily for you as a couple. She needs to understand why she engages in this kind of behavior. Also, you're right about the "old flame" thing in 99% of cases.
Also, if she really wants to help this guy, the way to do it is not to be a crutch. He's (probably) not going to be able to move on from his divorce as long as he's clinging to old, (perceived) safe relationships. It's good to listen, and encourage him to date, and talk about the good dates and the bad ones, but if she gets too close, she risks him transferring the affection he had for his wife right onto her (assuming he didn't go in with the bad motives to begin with).
edit-
Also, good luck. 3 ex-bfs? At once? Jesus Christ, what a pain in the ass this must be.
Don't make it an ex vs. husband thing. Don't give her an ultimatum or back her into a corner.
It seems to me that you and your wife are both looking at this is a very binary thing when it isn't. After you tell her how you feel and how much it hurts you, then why don't you say that you do love how much she wants to help others and say that you want to sit down together to figure out a way that she can help her ex's without hurting you.
Examples: Can she just talk them up to going to help for themselves without being there (after all, wouldn't it help them more to gain some independence and the confidence/empowerment to do it themselves instead of leaning on someone else to "make" them go?) ? Can she help them plan a bus route to get there? Find some other ways to help them that don't require them depending on her?
I mean, to go out on a limb here, it sounds like you might be able to talk to her about it where everyone wins if you approach it from the: "Sometimes in order to help people you need to enable them to take their own steps to help themselves so they can learn that they can do it, so help them to take the steps but don't let them lean on you too hard or you won't really be helping them" sort of angle.
She's your wife. If she can't be up front with you on this sort of thing, that's a signal that something is seriously wrong and, worse, you will naturally wonder if she's kept any other things from you that she deemed unnecessary for you to know about.
She should have talked it out with you, first, and not just so that you can shut it down from the beginning. Even if she insisted that she do all this after such a discussion, it's not so bad because at least you know it's on the up and up. More than anything, you're probably more upset at the fact that she refused to talk about this with you from the get-go than you are about the actual interaction with her exes. Lead with that.
As for continuing her liaising with these exes, that's up to you as a couple to resolve. Either you bend or she does, but the main issue that is actually going to threaten your relationship has little to do with the minute details of these guys and much more to do with the fact that she hid it from you.
This, I believe, is the situation.
Aye, I'll admit the fact that they hadn't contacted in years and now are suddenly sets off all sort of paranoia alarms for me. Not for her intent, but for their intent. If it is what Erios describes as a Martyr Complex, hopefully her willpower is stronger than it... going to meetings with them is one thing. But if it even should go there, it definitely shouldn't go beyond that. I could see someone with such a mentality being essentially guilted into doing something that they really ought not to do.
There's pretty much no way that you guys can close off this long distance marriage you're having by you moving to her or vice versa? A lot of both your potential paranoia and these guys' possibly nefarious motives would be obliterated if you were both in the same place. They wouldn't be able to view it as "she's alone" anymore... and you two could actually have intimate moments of your own again.
The real issue is communication. Tell her you'll always be more upset worrying that she's hiding things from you than you could be at her being open and honest. And yeah, communicate your feelings--there's nothing wrong with being bothered that she's doing these things with her exes, as long as you don't let yourself become controlling. You can't help how you feel, and part of a marriage is sharing those feelings. (Once. Not beating her over the head with them.) So approach it from the communication angle it make it clear that her hiding things is what bothers you most of all. And once you've reached an understanding on that, then tell her how you feel about her spending close personal time with her exes, and let her make her own decision on what to do about it.
She is in the guard in the other state and I am active duty. The states, and us, are 1100 miles apart but she only has to go for a month out of the year to take care of her 1 weekend a month obligation. So yes, if I could be there, I would.
The only things that are bothering me are that she didn't tell me before hand and the places they are going.
What else is bothering me is his motives but my wife is strong enough to say no but as I mentioned before with the pretend conversation, things happen. You can minimize those things happening by removing yourself from those types of situations.
An example of my wifes "it won't happen to me" mentality:
She was in a club in New Orleans with friends and she wanted to go back to the hotel but none of the rest were ready to go. So my wife decides to walk through the streets of downtown NO by herself at 1 or 2 in the morning. This alone is bad enough but in her recounting of the story to me, some guy is following her so she turns around and tells him that if he doesn't stop following her she's going to punch him in the throat. She called me and told me this because she was proud of herself for standing up and confronting this guy(she hates confrontations). Sigh...she doesn't think bad things can happen to her.
This is wildly hysterical thinking on my part but she doesn't know this guy anymore. He's doing drugs and has obviously changed since they were together in high school almost 10 years ago. What if his motives are far more sinister? What if hes thinking the last happy time in his life was when he was with her and now that his relationship has failed he can be happy again by being with her again. When she tells him that she loves me and would never leave me for him or cheat on me it just shatters his hope and says "well if I can't have you no one can" sort of thing?
Believe me, I know it's overly dramatic to think that way but if you've ever heard of Andrew Bagby, then you know it's not completely out of the realm of possibilities.
edit: I'm just coming up with lame reasons for her not to be anywhere near him I know. I'm just scared.
If she cares about you, she will take your feelings under consideration and adjust her behavior accordingly, but you can't make her change, all you can do is decide whether you can deal with it or not. So don't screw up your relationship by being controlling about it. And once again, the main thing you should get clear with her about is the communication issue.
Yes, believe me, the last thing I want to do is tell her not to do something or try and control her or the situation.
How does this sound? This is a reply to her email she sent earlier...
From Her:
I love you. I want to resolve this, I just don't know how.
I don't know what you're most upset about. That I didn't bring it up sooner, or that I'm helping this other person.
From Me:
I'm hurt that you didn't tell me and I don't know whether that's because you're scared to tell me things, that you willingly withheld information to keep me from being upset or both. I wouldn't have cared (much) about you talking to John...but hiding things from me...well, no.
I'm also hurt and jealous that you're experiencing something that was really personal to me with someone else...another guy, that you've had relations with. It doesn't matter that it was in Spanish. You understand the language and you were with him which makes it more intimate than I am comfortable with.
I do love you very much and I do wish you weren't scared to talk to me about these things...but I don't want to hear you say this when you get back:
"We were both crying about his hardships and he was telling me what a failure he's become and I just wanted to give him some support and comfort him and you know how it is when you come out from the energy healer? You're tired and unfocused and it just happened. I gave him a hug and then he said he couldn't do it without me and kissed me and then we were kissing. I just got caught up in the moment. Everything was so emotional and those old feelings for him stirred and then things happened. I'm sorry."
You have/had feelings for this guy and I don't want you to be naïve about his motives. Guys don't call girlfriends from years past...ex's they haven't talked to but for a couple times in 5-8 years...suddenly asking for help. Men do this when they get out of a relationship...it's just the way it is. They are looking for validation and some stroking of the ego and where better to get it than an old flame?
And when you get emotions from years past involved with the sense you're just trying to help someone, things can get out of hand.
I'm not saying you have these intentions honey, I KNOW that you don't, but things happen, even when we don't want them to. I love that you have a big heart but the fact that you're willing to withhold information to achieve a greater good is a problem.
I think it's more than ok that you talk to him and try to help him out but doing so under intimate circumstances is a no no. Going to AA meetings and seeing Eleanna are intimate circumstances. I think you need to tell him straight up that I am uncomfortable with you doing these intimate things with him but I do want you to help him and be there for him.
There has to be a way to do that that makes us both comfortable.
I know what you're thinking: the only way I would be comfortable is for you never to talk to him again (and you would be right!
What do you think we should do? Am I being asked to suck it up, that you're going to do it regardless of how I feel? Are you asking me to tell you not to go so you have a reason to give him for not going? Like you used to make your Mom do for you in HS? This way he hates me and not you?
Is helping him at the expense of our trust really that important to you?
I just need to know where you stand, hon?
At the end of the day, no matter what happens, I want you to come home. I love you and I don't want to live a life without you in it.
That said, there has never been any mystery between my new husband and I about this. He knows pretty much everything there is to know about my relationship with my best friend in both its past and present forms, and this person was even at our wedding. If he really needed me, I know my husband and I would both be there to support him.
But every situation is a little different. I think you're probably overreacting, but just a little bit. You've given every indication that she is being genuine, and that she is trustworthy. It's hard to look away from someone in need.. it just means she has some empathy. I also think that she should have told you from the start *because* she knew you would be upset, and omissions of that nature will always leave a bad taste.
tl;dr, Yes, it is inappropriate if only because it was intentionally kept from you. It's fine if you're confident she's not cheating, but she should really be more honest.
edit: haha, wait, they were kissing? It's good that she told you, and now she owes you a big fucking apology. You should probably forgive her, but then you are well within your rights to ask her not to do this ever again.
Regardless of if all of them are justifiable from an objective standpoint or not, they ARE your fears. I think it's worth expressing them. (Personally, I agree with a large amount of your fears in this situation, but that's neither here nor there)
Also Ceres, you should note that this guy dropped in out of nowhere after spending years not contacting her. It's not like they turned into good friends over the years as it sounds like your ex did. This guy's getting divorced and decided now was a good time to pop back into the life of his ex girlfriend (who is now married).
EDIT 2:
Wait, they were kissing? I thought that was rhetorical.
Was that not rhetorical? Was the scenario you described above something that actually happened, Shawnasse?