Vic hurts the people around him as often as he helps them, and he does things as much for himself as he does for anyone else. He's a bad guy.
But we love him anyway.
Vic hurts people who are in his way. He didn't do anything to Tevon, all he did was protect Shane who was again being a dick.
Oh come on man, he told Tevon that he hit a pregnant woman and she urinated blood. Tevon, a perfectly innocent nice guy. He could have just tried to talk to him, explain that Shan hit him in the heat of the moment and try to reason with him, he only lied to him because it was easier.
Oh, I think we can all gvie Vic a pass for all the stuff he's done against Aceveda, that guys just as much of a problem as Vic is, just in a suit.
Finished the first season and am like 2 episodes into the 2nd.
I didn't catch the first time how much the finale of the last episode of season one echoes the first. Except Acevada ends up saving Vic instead of Vic killing him. It was nicely done.
Re: The Vic is evil as hell thing. I really don't think so. I mean he's evil and shouldn't be a cop but most of the really scary shit he does to protect/avenge people he loves. I think we can all sympathize with that a bit. He shot Terry because he threatened his second family (the team). Up till the second season Vic's role in the drug trade was a kind of moderator (paid albeit) to keep things quiet. When Shane starts increasing and financing sales he gets very pissed off. Vic doesn't see himself as a dealer, just a guy trying to make the world safer. The same with Gilroy and his scheme. You see that Vic is actually horrified that someone he considered a friend would get so many innocent people hurt and killed for money.
deowolfis allowed to do that.Traffic.Registered Userregular
edited April 2007
This show gets better each year. I can't wait for the inevitable conclusion where Vic kills himself rather than deal with Shane being such a dick. I'd almost put that down as my theory for the show's end.
This show gets better each year. I can't wait for the inevitable conclusion where Vic kills himself rather than deal with Shane being such a dick. I'd almost put that down as my theory for the show's end.
Or until Vic shoots Shane for being such a dick... promptly going to jail of course (lol). This season is poised to just be getting better, I'll agree.
This season is going to be crazy with Kavanaugh going out of his way to incriminate Vic with Lem's murder. Ontop of that, revealing to Shane that Lem hadn't betrayed the team right off the bat, and watching him lose control similar to what happened immediately after Terry's murder. I can't wait for next week's episode, and further down the line when Vic finally gets his hands around Emalia(?)'s neck.
You weren't already aware? He's been in more than his share of bad B-movies, but as an actor I've always been pretty impressed by him.
I was worried at first that bringing him on would just be another gimmicky guest spot (which is about how I felt about Glenn Close)...but I think he's actually managed to add a lot to the show.
Wow, that was a really amazing first episode. I thought the fifth season was the best so far, but this one is setting to top that.
I think Terry and Lem's kills were very different. Terry was working his way up on Vic's teams shoulders (planning to take them down in the process), while Lem wasn't doing anything but save himself while not harming anyone in the process. It doesn't make Terry's murder anymore acceptable... but it differentiates them.
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deowolfis allowed to do that.Traffic.Registered Userregular
edited April 2007
So SPIKE is playing the Shield now, 2-4 am - I'd like to thank the night shift for letting me learn that one.
So I'm 8 episodes through season 1 and I just have one question:
Does the armenian/blond Jesus show up again?
Yes
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deowolfis allowed to do that.Traffic.Registered Userregular
edited April 2007
Man,
I'm sorry to see Kavanaugh's fall so soon. I hated that snake, but liked how he made me squirm. I was kinda hoping to see them go the whole season with him being as bad as Vic but for his own 'good reasons'
It's amazing to me just how badly Vic doesn't get it. He just doesn't understand that the vast majority of humanity do not spend a large part of their time desperately trying to wriggle free from dooms of their own making.
Ok thanks to D&Ds suggestion, I went out and bought Season 1.
Fuck man, I'm cheering for the bad guy just like Dexter.
And I'm loving it.
Wrong thread I guess but Dexter isn't a bad guy...just a vigilante that happens to have a method of dispatching criminals that seems relegated to "bad guys" only.
I really like how they've managed to undersell him with these occasional glimpses of incredible competence.
I think Ronnie has had more lines and face time in this episode than in the entire series thus far combined.
And I like it.
No kidding. I just liked how this is one of the first times we've seen him do more than a single step of something... and he's bloody good. Dutch and whiny old detective guy basically just sat there and let him do all the work.
So I found Dutch's comments to Claudette especially funny at the end.
I think Ronnie's the only one who's gonna make it off the show alive. He just - he's the only one with a good head on his shoulders.
Maybe I'm just hazy, but I remember Lem having a pretty decent head on his shoulders. Aside from...
...the whole cash-inferno...
...thing I remember him always being pretty well adjusted. And, you know...look how that turned out.
Though I would say Ronnie has always seemed more detached from the Strike Team. I think part of it is due to lack of screen time and lines, but I'm wondering now if that was intentional or not. The corruption just never seemed to be as much of a part of him; for him it was more like he was punching a clock.
It's light-hearted and enjoyable. Eddie Izzard is good.
I'll have to check it out. After finals, most likely.
I think Ronnie's the only one who's gonna make it off the show alive. He just - he's the only one with a good head on his shoulders.
Maybe I'm just hazy, but I remember Lem having a pretty decent head on his shoulders. Aside from...
...the whole cash-inferno...
...thing I remember him always being pretty well adjusted. And, you know...look how that turned out.
Though I would say Ronnie has always seemed more detached from the Strike Team. I think part of it is due to lack of screen time and lines, but I'm wondering now if that was intentional or not. The corruption just never seemed to be as much of a part of him; for him it was more like he was punching a clock.
Rewatching things (I'm up to season 4 right now) and somethings about Ronnie: He's very loyal. Quite a few times he was the first to speak up for trusting somebody or hearing at least what they had to say even after they'd done horrible things (i.e. Shane). He is kinda detached but he may be the most intelligent of the strike team (only other one in the running is Vic) and he is certainly the one with the best control over his actions. Kauvinaugh had absolutely nothing on him unlike the others.
He's also pretty brutal in his choices. He was among the first to suggest killing Shane when he was in bed with Michel.
Is anyone else miffed at the turn this season took last night?
They basically got rid of Whitaker for good last week. Then this week, Vic kills Guardo, and says "he slept better than he has in a while," which basically means he thinks his quest for revenge is over. The only person that has any idea that Guardo isn't the killer is Dutch, but he's actually not supposed to be on the case. Not to mention he has no contact that he contact the guy that corroborates that Guardo wasn't the killer.
I feel like writers basically pushed this plot point aside indefinitely and said "here's this new sidestory with this new guy coming in. It's basically something to distract you until we decide to pick up the Terry-Vic and Shane-Lem stories since we're ending the show next season." I hope I'm wrong and they're bringing in the new guy to investigate Terry or Lem's death.
Don't get me wrong, the show was good as always. Gripping stuff with Guardo and Shane. And Guardo's g/f telling him he was gonna have his baby paralled to Shane's toddler. As well as the stuff with Vic losing touch with his own family. However, I don't really want this season to be about "cocky new guy coming in to replace Vic."
Is anyone else miffed at the turn this season took last night?
They basically got rid of Whitaker for good last week. Then this week, Vic kills Guardo, and says "he slept better than he has in a while," which basically means he thinks his quest for revenge is over. The only person that has any idea that Guardo isn't the killer is Dutch, but he's actually not supposed to be on the case. Not to mention he has no contact that he contact the guy that corroborates that Guardo wasn't the killer.
I feel like writers basically pushed this plot point aside indefinitely and said "here's this new sidestory with this new guy coming in. It's basically something to distract you until we decide to pick up the Terry-Vic and Shane-Lem stories since we're ending the show next season." I hope I'm wrong and they're bringing in the new guy to investigate Terry or Lem's death.
Don't get me wrong, the show was good as always. Gripping stuff with Guardo and Shane. And Guardo's g/f telling him he was gonna have his baby paralled to Shane's toddler. As well as the stuff with Vic losing touch with his own family. However, I don't really want this season to be about "cocky new guy coming in to replace Vic."
You're going to be disappointed. I have a feeling it's going to get dropped for a while, but it's cool because they'll probably bring it back at the worst possible point for the characters involved leading to drama++. It'll be fantastic, and I can't wait.
But aside from that, I don't think it'll get more than cursory mention for the bulk of the season.
Is anyone else miffed at the turn this season took last night?
They basically got rid of Whitaker for good last week. Then this week, Vic kills Guardo, and says "he slept better than he has in a while," which basically means he thinks his quest for revenge is over. The only person that has any idea that Guardo isn't the killer is Dutch, but he's actually not supposed to be on the case. Not to mention he has no contact that he contact the guy that corroborates that Guardo wasn't the killer.
I feel like writers basically pushed this plot point aside indefinitely and said "here's this new sidestory with this new guy coming in. It's basically something to distract you until we decide to pick up the Terry-Vic and Shane-Lem stories since we're ending the show next season." I hope I'm wrong and they're bringing in the new guy to investigate Terry or Lem's death.
Don't get me wrong, the show was good as always. Gripping stuff with Guardo and Shane. And Guardo's g/f telling him he was gonna have his baby paralled to Shane's toddler. As well as the stuff with Vic losing touch with his own family. However, I don't really want this season to be about "cocky new guy coming in to replace Vic."
You're going to be disappointed. I have a feeling it's going to get dropped for a while, but it's cool because they'll probably bring it back at the worst possible point for the characters involved leading to drama++. It'll be fantastic, and I can't wait.
But aside from that, I don't think it'll get more than cursory mention for the bulk of the season.
Man, that pisses me off. Cos originally this (the sixth) season was supposed to be the last, but the producers insisted they needed another season to "tell their story." I assumed that did not mean taking me on silly sideroads. I thought we were gonna barrel full speed ahead to the conclusion for two straight seasons and it was gonna be awesome.
I love this show. The only probably I have potentially with it is that they seem to be dodging the bullet that they have to bite eventually. The Strike team are bad dudes. Shane and Vic arent good guys, and even though we are rooting for them, they eventually will have to get theirs.
The problem is, they invested so much in their families and relationships that seeing them take the fall would be pretty damned hard for the viewer. So they keep bringing in outside forces for us to root against (this new guy...) while delaying the inevitable. Unless they make this new guy super likeable and have him bring down Vic, I dont want another story of the strike team usurping athourity and digging another grave...
Ive always liked how Dutch and Claudette have pretty much been the main characters of their own seperate show on the Shield which occasionally crosses over with the strike team. Putting Claudette in power places her opposite of Vic by nature of how this show works. Thus, we finally have someone who will go toe to toe with Vic, who we dont want to see crushed. If the strike team gets theirs in the end (which they should) the only reasonable way to do it is have Dutch and Claudette be the ones to bring them down.
They need to get Dutch laid, and them give him a bit more of a spine and then fuck it, have him bring down Vic. If Joss Whendon could make Wesley a badass on Angel, then surely the writers of the Shield could make Dutch a bit more worthy of bringing down the Strike team.
But did the show ever address why the fuck Dutch killed that cat in that one episode? That creeped me out...and I think I tuned out for a few episodes because of it.
All in all, Im a bit sad to see Kavanaugh go, but they drew out his story line all season, and really
Shane killing Lem
would have been a wasted sacrifce if it DIDNT beat Kavanaugh. I liked them teasing Kavanaugh playing dirty, but in the end he isnt as good as Vic at that and he knows it. Shanes actions ended any way Kavanaugh had at nailing the strike team with fair play, so his story was done.
They need to get Dutch laid, and them give him a bit more of a spine and then fuck it, have him bring down Vic.
Dutch is brilliant, he doesn't need to be a bad ass. In fact, he's like the antithesis of Vic, and that's what makes him so great. If the option presents itself I'm positive he'd take out Vic.
Hell, in the heat of the moment he was willing to fist-fight Vic, even though he would've gotten the shit kicked out of him. He had loads of adrenaline pumping, but still...
But did the show ever address why the fuck Dutch killed that cat in that one episode? That creeped me out...and I think I tuned out for a few episodes because of it.
I think a lot of people misunderstand this. He killed the cat so he could try to understand what that serial killer was talking about. He even used what he learned when interrogating some other killer later.
Im not saying he needs to be a bad ass. Because, agreed dutch's awesomeness doesnt stem from anything remotely badass. What he does need though, is a bit more of the viewers respect. He gets shit on a bit too much. He needs to get a woman, so we can all be like "yeah dutch boy!" And then id have no qualms about him taking down Vic.
Its less a matter of changing his character at all, because thatd be stupid, but more a matter of having his character, as it is, accomplish something by banging a hottie. Like last episode, he just seemed kind of pathetic in his attempt to eventually nail the chick cop(i forget her name). Also, he seemed sort of creepy jealous stalker type in his obvious recognition of her wanting Ronnie. I dont want Dutch to be any different of a character, I just want his character thrown a few respectable bones to build him up a bit before going toe to toe with Vic.
I definately think this show has built up Dutch and Claudette seperate from the Strike Team for a reason. And I believe its so we root for someone other then the Strike Team when they go at it.
I think it'll be near impossible root for anyone against the Strike Team, at this point. Like someone said before, it's a tragedy and our guy is gonna die.
The one that comes closest to being rootable against the Strike Team would be Claudette, but I can tell you that Vic is bad dude but he's likable because of his devotion to his team and his family. No other characters have that.
Honestly, I feel odd that I actually hope the strike team doesn't go down.
I mean, I understand they obviously will, it's the only real way to end the series. What I don't think is that any one of them will go down they way we think they will. I can't see Vic in a prison cell for the rest of his life, Shane maybe, Ronnie maybe.
What I'm imagining is this:
I'm seeing Tavon come out of his coma and pressing charges on Shane. Once behind bars, Shane tells Vic he was the one who killed Lem. Vic returns to the barn, tells Ronnie that the team is done and he's retiring, turns in his badge, has Shane killed in jail, Gives Corrin a fat stack of $$$ and dissapears over the border with a sack of cash.
Maybe thats just me. I wouldn't really have a problem with that ending.
Posts
Oh, I think we can all gvie Vic a pass for all the stuff he's done against Aceveda, that guys just as much of a problem as Vic is, just in a suit.
Re: The Vic is evil as hell thing. I really don't think so. I mean he's evil and shouldn't be a cop but most of the really scary shit he does to protect/avenge people he loves. I think we can all sympathize with that a bit. He shot Terry because he threatened his second family (the team). Up till the second season Vic's role in the drug trade was a kind of moderator (paid albeit) to keep things quiet. When Shane starts increasing and financing sales he gets very pissed off. Vic doesn't see himself as a dealer, just a guy trying to make the world safer. The same with Gilroy and his scheme. You see that Vic is actually horrified that someone he considered a friend would get so many innocent people hurt and killed for money.
Forest Whitaker is amazing.
Or until Vic shoots Shane for being such a dick... promptly going to jail of course (lol). This season is poised to just be getting better, I'll agree.
This season is going to be crazy with Kavanaugh going out of his way to incriminate Vic with Lem's murder. Ontop of that, revealing to Shane that Lem hadn't betrayed the team right off the bat, and watching him lose control similar to what happened immediately after Terry's murder. I can't wait for next week's episode, and further down the line when Vic finally gets his hands around Emalia(?)'s neck.
That whole exchange at the end was just fucking cold.
I think this may well be the best season yet.
You weren't already aware? He's been in more than his share of bad B-movies, but as an actor I've always been pretty impressed by him.
I was worried at first that bringing him on would just be another gimmicky guest spot (which is about how I felt about Glenn Close)...but I think he's actually managed to add a lot to the show.
Fuck man, I'm cheering for the bad guy just like Dexter.
And I'm loving it.
That is all.
Wrong thread I guess but Dexter isn't a bad guy...just a vigilante that happens to have a method of dispatching criminals that seems relegated to "bad guys" only.
"Please don't say that I complete you."
I really like how they've managed to undersell him with these occasional glimpses of incredible competence.
I think Ronnie has had more lines and face time in this episode than in the entire series thus far combined.
And I like it.
No kidding. I just liked how this is one of the first times we've seen him do more than a single step of something... and he's bloody good. Dutch and whiny old detective guy basically just sat there and let him do all the work.
So I found Dutch's comments to Claudette especially funny at the end.
I mean, I love the guy, but I also love watching him get shit on. It's great.
Preferably one without a large, angry, homicidal ex-husband.
EDIT: Is The Riches any good? It looks good, and I was thinking of catching up on it.
Maybe I'm just hazy, but I remember Lem having a pretty decent head on his shoulders. Aside from...
...thing I remember him always being pretty well adjusted. And, you know...look how that turned out.
Though I would say Ronnie has always seemed more detached from the Strike Team. I think part of it is due to lack of screen time and lines, but I'm wondering now if that was intentional or not. The corruption just never seemed to be as much of a part of him; for him it was more like he was punching a clock.
I'll have to check it out. After finals, most likely.
He's also pretty brutal in his choices. He was among the first to suggest killing Shane when he was in bed with Michel.
I feel like writers basically pushed this plot point aside indefinitely and said "here's this new sidestory with this new guy coming in. It's basically something to distract you until we decide to pick up the Terry-Vic and Shane-Lem stories since we're ending the show next season." I hope I'm wrong and they're bringing in the new guy to investigate Terry or Lem's death.
Don't get me wrong, the show was good as always. Gripping stuff with Guardo and Shane. And Guardo's g/f telling him he was gonna have his baby paralled to Shane's toddler. As well as the stuff with Vic losing touch with his own family. However, I don't really want this season to be about "cocky new guy coming in to replace Vic."
You're going to be disappointed. I have a feeling it's going to get dropped for a while, but it's cool because they'll probably bring it back at the worst possible point for the characters involved leading to drama++. It'll be fantastic, and I can't wait.
But aside from that, I don't think it'll get more than cursory mention for the bulk of the season.
Man, that pisses me off. Cos originally this (the sixth) season was supposed to be the last, but the producers insisted they needed another season to "tell their story." I assumed that did not mean taking me on silly sideroads. I thought we were gonna barrel full speed ahead to the conclusion for two straight seasons and it was gonna be awesome.
The problem is, they invested so much in their families and relationships that seeing them take the fall would be pretty damned hard for the viewer. So they keep bringing in outside forces for us to root against (this new guy...) while delaying the inevitable. Unless they make this new guy super likeable and have him bring down Vic, I dont want another story of the strike team usurping athourity and digging another grave...
Ive always liked how Dutch and Claudette have pretty much been the main characters of their own seperate show on the Shield which occasionally crosses over with the strike team. Putting Claudette in power places her opposite of Vic by nature of how this show works. Thus, we finally have someone who will go toe to toe with Vic, who we dont want to see crushed. If the strike team gets theirs in the end (which they should) the only reasonable way to do it is have Dutch and Claudette be the ones to bring them down.
They need to get Dutch laid, and them give him a bit more of a spine and then fuck it, have him bring down Vic. If Joss Whendon could make Wesley a badass on Angel, then surely the writers of the Shield could make Dutch a bit more worthy of bringing down the Strike team.
But did the show ever address why the fuck Dutch killed that cat in that one episode? That creeped me out...and I think I tuned out for a few episodes because of it.
All in all, Im a bit sad to see Kavanaugh go, but they drew out his story line all season, and really
Dutch is brilliant, he doesn't need to be a bad ass. In fact, he's like the antithesis of Vic, and that's what makes him so great. If the option presents itself I'm positive he'd take out Vic.
Hell, in the heat of the moment he was willing to fist-fight Vic, even though he would've gotten the shit kicked out of him. He had loads of adrenaline pumping, but still...
I think a lot of people misunderstand this. He killed the cat so he could try to understand what that serial killer was talking about. He even used what he learned when interrogating some other killer later.
Its less a matter of changing his character at all, because thatd be stupid, but more a matter of having his character, as it is, accomplish something by banging a hottie. Like last episode, he just seemed kind of pathetic in his attempt to eventually nail the chick cop(i forget her name). Also, he seemed sort of creepy jealous stalker type in his obvious recognition of her wanting Ronnie. I dont want Dutch to be any different of a character, I just want his character thrown a few respectable bones to build him up a bit before going toe to toe with Vic.
I definately think this show has built up Dutch and Claudette seperate from the Strike Team for a reason. And I believe its so we root for someone other then the Strike Team when they go at it.
The one that comes closest to being rootable against the Strike Team would be Claudette, but I can tell you that Vic is bad dude but he's likable because of his devotion to his team and his family. No other characters have that.
I mean, I understand they obviously will, it's the only real way to end the series. What I don't think is that any one of them will go down they way we think they will. I can't see Vic in a prison cell for the rest of his life, Shane maybe, Ronnie maybe.
What I'm imagining is this:
Maybe thats just me. I wouldn't really have a problem with that ending.