But until about Outland, you don't have much of anything for control or survival abilities. Pretty much all you are is high armor, which doesn't help at all against magic damage, and even against physical damage you're probably only taking about 20-25% less damage than a plate wearer using a two hander (except when you're able to block attacks). Even if you are harder to kill, you're equally not much of a threat as far as damage output (and lack of MS), so it's hard to envision steamrolling.
You don't even have mobility until Warbringer.
forty on
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SenshiBALLING OUT OF CONTROLWavefrontRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
All I know is that I was steamrolling shit when I was Prot. That's what I'm basing my analysis on.
All I know is that I was steamrolling shit when I was Prot. That's what I'm basing my analysis on.
I second this. I was steamrolling pretty hard core before I went fury. Now I rock Honed Void Axe and Blade of Misfortune and rape face with them. Stupid slam procs at first I didn't know I was getting them, now I have a fun addon and never miss one
I levelled my Warrior Fury with 2 heirloom axes, chest, and shoulders, but no haste/heal trinkets and I still never once had to bandage or eat due to the healing talents and Bloodthirst. It would just make it even crazier to have the trinkets.
There's also the heirloom bow too, don't forget about that if you're going to go all out.
I'm working on leveling a RAF warrior right now to try out Fury and oh so looking forward to it. Never had a warrior beyond the 40s before so Titan's Grip here we go.
The trinkets are definitely not unique equipped. My enhancement shaman I'm levelling is rocking two of them right now. Not that I ever need the healing anyway between wolves and the occasional MW heal, but the 4% total health every time you kill a guy is pretty nifty.
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Kai_SanCommonly known as Klineshrike!Registered Userregular
edited November 2009
I tried to level arms because fuckall its so much more entertaining than fury. But dammit I got sick of needing food.
Fury just has silly survivability with that healing. If I pull 2 or 3 mobs I can come out only slightly scathed as opposed to near dead with arms. And if I pull more I have enraged regen or whatever it is and I am basically fine.
Although I did once get about 10 trolls and died, but if I had those hierloom trinkets I prolly woulda survived.
I also have higher than normal health becase I am rocking some high end PVP gear from 70. Shit is still pro at 77 becase of the gem slots all over the place. I often still have more hp in dps gear than any tank.
yeah I did a few quests in grizzly hills as arms not too long ago. After being Prot for 6 levels I forgot how squishy arms warriors can be.
edit: and I am still wearing T6 which has a lot less stamina than you would think.
format on
You don't know if I am joking or not.
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SmasherStarting to get dizzyRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
Does anyone have an armory or link to a list of gear that hits the armor pen hard cap? I've heard it can be done, but fiddling around with wowhead's item search and comparison tools I can't seem to reach it, even with the battle stance and 2 piece T9 bonuses.
Does anyone have an armory or link to a list of gear that hits the armor pen hard cap? I've heard it can be done, but fiddling around with wowhead's item search and comparison tools I can't seem to reach it, even with the battle stance and 2 piece T9 bonuses.
Elitist Jerks, the Warrior DPS Spreadsheet thread OP by Landsoul.
Don't forget you have to gem for it entirely, and account for the battle stance bonus as a flat 16%, not 1.16x your rating from gear.
I'm leveling a Warrior and I haven't leveled a Warrior since my 80 one which was back during vanilla.
I know to obviously spec Fury early on, but is it worth it to switch to dual wielding one handers at lvl 20, or should I be doing 2h at least until I get bloodthirst?
I'm leveling a Warrior and I haven't leveled a Warrior since my 80 one which was back during vanilla.
I know to obviously spec Fury early on, but is it worth it to switch to dual wielding one handers at lvl 20, or should I be doing 2h at least until I get bloodthirst?
Stick to 2h Fury until you get titan's grip, then DW fury, if fury is how you want to level. Dual wielding 1 handers doesn't really amount to much of a damage increase over a 2h, without DW talents and +hit, and the miss streaks you get can be frustrating. Plus, if you level with 2handers, you'll have your skills up to date when you hit 60 and get titan's grip, which will be way better than leveling your skill from nothing. Using a 2h or dual wielding has no effect on bloodthirst. It just does damage based on your AP.
However, if you're stylistically attached to dual wielding, leveling that way will work fine for you, as it did for me. Leveling up your 2h skills when you hit 60 will suck, though.
Does anyone have an armory or link to a list of gear that hits the armor pen hard cap? I've heard it can be done, but fiddling around with wowhead's item search and comparison tools I can't seem to reach it, even with the battle stance and 2 piece T9 bonuses.
Elitist Jerks, the Warrior DPS Spreadsheet thread OP by Landsoul.
Don't forget you have to gem for it entirely, and account for the battle stance bonus as a flat 16%, not 1.16x your rating from gear.
Ah. I think I was mislead by a couple people who'd said it was possible in H ToC gear when they meant ToGC.
Does anyone have an armory or link to a list of gear that hits the armor pen hard cap? I've heard it can be done, but fiddling around with wowhead's item search and comparison tools I can't seem to reach it, even with the battle stance and 2 piece T9 bonuses.
Elitist Jerks, the Warrior DPS Spreadsheet thread OP by Landsoul.
Don't forget you have to gem for it entirely, and account for the battle stance bonus as a flat 16%, not 1.16x your rating from gear.
Ah. I think I was mislead by a couple people who'd said it was possible in H ToC gear when they meant ToGC.
All of my gear is from regular 10s and 25s except for a Heroic Dual-Blade Butcher and I've gotten within less than 1%, but it requires using the ArP food.
I'm leveling a Warrior and I haven't leveled a Warrior since my 80 one which was back during vanilla.
I know to obviously spec Fury early on, but is it worth it to switch to dual wielding one handers at lvl 20, or should I be doing 2h at least until I get bloodthirst?
Sooo... I was under the impression that arms was fastest until 60 when you went prot. Stupid wow forums. You are saying it's ideal to level fury because of the heal, and just wait to DW until titan's grip?
I know I quoted Riale, but anyone can feel free to help.
Well, all specs have their advantages. It's basically
do you enjoy large swords? Arms.
do you enjoy zero downtime? Fury.
do you enjoy pulling all the mobs for the quest at once? Several times over, maybe? Prot.
and another one for fun: do you enjoy steamrolling low-level battlegrounds? Prot.
I think I'll add this to the OP.
Edit: And added.
JustinSane07 on
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SenshiBALLING OUT OF CONTROLWavefrontRegistered Userregular
Are there any relatively lightweight add-ons for tracking/announcing when you get Slam! procs for Fury? I noticed in Hellfire over the weekend that the default Blizzard SCT doesn't announce the proc and its not always easy to see the animation when you're swamped in Fel Orcs. =P
There's a specific addon for just that, I think called slamwatch or somesuch.
Justin, I'd argue that if you like big swords, Fury is the way to go, since you get two. Arms is more a spec for people who enjoy blending, being a blender, and blender related blood activities.
There's a specific addon for just that, I think called slamwatch or somesuch.
Justin, I'd argue that if you like big swords, Fury is the way to go, since you get two. Arms is more a spec for people who enjoy blending, being a blender, and blender related blood activities.
SenshiBALLING OUT OF CONTROLWavefrontRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
If you don't like class/spec-specific addons, give TellMeWhen a shot. I'm guessing the proc works a little like Sword and Board?, which gives you a self-buff when it procs, affecting your next Slam? TellMeWhen should work for that, and isn't aimed at any class in particular.
I personally use Elkanos Buffbars for all my buff/debuff watching, since I long ago learned how to configure it to do basically everything I've ever wanted.
SenshiBALLING OUT OF CONTROLWavefrontRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
QUESTION:
I'm almost 80, I'd like to get some gear for Heroic 5-man tanking. What do I do? What do I get? Is there shit on the AH that I should buy? Crafted stuff? Any particular quests I should do? Whatever'll get me to 535 Defense is what I need. I'm a Jewelcrafter, so I'll have access to 3x34Def gems.
As far as dungeon loot goes, I've singled out a few choice items I'll be gunning for immediately: Black Heart off of ToC Normal, Essence of Gossamer off of Azjol Nerub HC, Red Sword of Courage off of Utgarde Pinnacle HC, and the Royal Crest of Lordaeron (what a fantastic shield, really) off of Culling of Stratholme HC.
Get the epic tanking weapon from Argent Tournament. You can start those dailies at 77. It'll take you 9 days of dailies to be able to buy the weapon. As far as craftables goes, there are boots, helm, shield and a breastplate (I think) from Blacksmithing. They're not cheap, but everyone can make them.
I'm almost 80, I'd like to get some gear for Heroic 5-man tanking. What do I do? What do I get? Is there shit on the AH that I should buy? Crafted stuff? Any particular quests I should do? Whatever'll get me to 535 Defense is what I need. I'm a Jewelcrafter, so I'll have access to 3x34Def gems.
As far as dungeon loot goes, I've singled out a few choice items I'll be gunning for immediately: Black Heart off of ToC Normal, Essence of Gossamer off of Azjol Nerub HC, Red Sword of Courage off of Utgarde Pinnacle HC, and the Royal Crest of Lordaeron (what a fantastic shield, really) off of Culling of Stratholme HC.
If you want crafted items go for these:
Titansteel Shield Wall
Tempered Titansteel Helm
Tempered Titansteel boots
Engineering epic tank gun
Jewelcrafting epic tank ring/neck
LW epic tank cloak(no defense on this though)
Daunting and Tempered Saronite blue pieces to fill in other spots pre heroics.
If you have a main with a load of conquest sitting around buy the 60 badge BoE bracers, and the valor badge tank cloak. Some of the above pieces aren't really worth having crafted, like the JC tank neck, because you will replace it very fast, but if you have a ton of gold sitting around it's better than nothing to start.
There are various other tanking BoEs you could get on the AH too, that drop from heroics and are decent starter pieces for cheap.
Why hallo war thread! I'm a paladin (I'm so sorry), and have a war buddy, whom I've suckered into xfering factions so we can faceroll some crazy dragons and bosses and what not. I'm prot/holy and he likes tanking as well, which wont be an issue at all. However he's talking as if warriors are in a bad state right now. I have nothing to suggest otherwise, its not that I think you guys are broken or in a place of disrepair...I just have nothing to counter his arguments. I love MT or OT with a warrior and have nothing against them.
ITT the main source of his downplaying stems from the fact that the other classes are now fully capable tanks rather than novelty things. I understand his fear, but it isn't as though warrior tanks have fallen to the wayside...although now that people favor stam stacking you do fall a bit behind (Though I think warriors place ahead of paladins in the stam stacking game.).
He's a bit undergeared for stuffs (not heroics, just he took a break shortly after Uld and didn't get too far), but that really isn't going to be an issue. I'm just trying to address his bitching so he doesn't have a skewed view. Help is much appreciated!
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
Warriors don't place ahead of paladins in stam staciking .other way around.
In general, warriors fall a bit behind the other three tanks in terms of AOE threat. Their threat is sufficient to hold threat, but against intense burst AOE, they'll probably fight very hard to maintain a hold on the mobs, and in general, when it comes to AOE tanking, warriors have to work much harder than the other tanks for less total threat. Single target threat they are monsters though.
however, for some, the rage mechanic is annoying as warriors are more reliant than any other tank on being hit to generate sufficient threat...all three other tanks can manage 75-80% of their maximum TPS as long as they're attacking, warriors would be lucky to make 60% when not being attacked.
But Warriors have Shield Slam, making them pretty entertaining. Especially if you can jump off a cliff, use charge before hitting the ground and then slam your victim with your shield. Shit like that makes me giddy.
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SenshiBALLING OUT OF CONTROLWavefrontRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
I bought the Tempered Titansteel Helm and Boots, the Titansteel Shield Wall, got myself the Black Heart and the gloves (Mercy's Hold) from ToC normal. I'm still only 79 so I should be able to pick up some quest rewards in Icecrown before shit gets real. Thanks for the help so far!
(dpsing toc in prot was INTERESTING. two prot specs ftl)
If you compare all 4 tank classes right now all in best in slot gear, and with full raid buffs, Warrior threat will be a bit behind Paladin, probably Druid, and probably DW DK. Effective health is behind Paladins as well due to how strong Ardent Defender is now and better stam scaling for Paladins.
That said, I switched mains about 3 months ago to my Warrior from my Paladin, and I'll never look back. I tank everything just as well as before, I bring sunders to my raid(We're a 10 man and I'm the only Warrior), and most importantly, Warrior tanking is fun as hell. If your friend wants to be a tank where sustained AoE threat isn't as good and you have to work harder to get the most of out of your class, but you are equipped with tons of tools like stuns, spell reflect, a short CD interrupt, charging around the battlefield, etc. then tell him to stick with the Warrior.
It's all personal preference though, and if he's not somebody that's willing to put in the work to be good at the class then Paladin would be better for him, because it's easier to tank on one.
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
i dunno where the idea that paladins have less utility than warriors comes from
sure, its different utility, but its just as numerous
paladins have - cleanses, hand of freedom, hand of sacrifice (this alone is very powerful...as an offtank, when not actively tanking you can throw it on the main tank. the damage you absorb is not remotely dangerous to you, and will give him a free shield wall), hand of salvation for threat-sensitive fights (admittedly not too many of these exist), blessing of protection, divine shield, judgements of light and wisdom, both of which are near-mandatory raid buffs, and an extremely long duration stun, though long cooldown too. they also have Sacred Shield which isn't to be underestimated
He's fine with his warrior, I think he's just a bit down on where the class is compared to how far the other classes have moved in recent history as viable tanks. I really can't understand his fears though, as if we are a MT/OT team, there really aren't any fights where we couldn't switch who is MT and who is OT. Even in 5 mans, if he wants to take tankspot, I'm down and I'll heal or dps pending which Offspec I'm currently working on gearing up (seems to switch a bit too often.
Maybe he's thinking that given a raid that has 1 tank and only needs one other he'd be relegated to dps, or that we might ask him to dps in favor of another class tanking (bear as he sees them in currently the best spot).
Ultimately I really dont think its his unwillingness to tank things, he seems to enjoy that play style from stories we've been swapping. I think he sees the trend of pugs demanding that a tank bring xxk hp to the table, and warriors fall behind in that fight.
Thanks for clarifying though (on both buffs/debuffs both tanks provide, and how things fall in the stam war department), and I wish I had checked out warrior tanking as it seems really interesting, but screw leveling and gearing one up right now.
It's both interesting and frustrating after playing something like a prot paladin. Whereas the warrior is forced to burn GCDs every ~25 seconds on the (relatively) low threat demo shout and thunder clap, assuming no one else in the raid is providing those debuffs on your target, the paladin just puts the same debuffs (actually better since a prot warrior likely won't have imp demo shout) on the target automatically.
But then there are fights like Jaraxxus where it's very nice to be able to take care of interrupting fireballs yourself if you're a warrior tank instead of having to rely on someone else to interrupt for you if you're a paladin. Of course you have to be hit capped for it to be reliable, which can lean back toward frustration depending on your gear.
forty on
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Dhalphirdon't you open that trapdooryou're a fool if you dareRegistered Userregular
edited November 2009
but then on the flipside when i'm on my warrior, I miss being able to cleanse myself, or throw up a Hand of Salv on a person climbing near my threat
Posts
You don't even have mobility until Warbringer.
I second this. I was steamrolling pretty hard core before I went fury. Now I rock Honed Void Axe and Blade of Misfortune and rape face with them. Stupid slam procs at first I didn't know I was getting them, now I have a fun addon and never miss one
I imagine leveling as fury, with two of them, it'd be tough to run out of health.
two of the same one.
If not, holy bad ass.
I'm working on leveling a RAF warrior right now to try out Fury and oh so looking forward to it. Never had a warrior beyond the 40s before so Titan's Grip here we go.
Fury just has silly survivability with that healing. If I pull 2 or 3 mobs I can come out only slightly scathed as opposed to near dead with arms. And if I pull more I have enraged regen or whatever it is and I am basically fine.
Although I did once get about 10 trolls and died, but if I had those hierloom trinkets I prolly woulda survived.
I also have higher than normal health becase I am rocking some high end PVP gear from 70. Shit is still pro at 77 becase of the gem slots all over the place. I often still have more hp in dps gear than any tank.
edit: and I am still wearing T6 which has a lot less stamina than you would think.
Don't forget you have to gem for it entirely, and account for the battle stance bonus as a flat 16%, not 1.16x your rating from gear.
I know to obviously spec Fury early on, but is it worth it to switch to dual wielding one handers at lvl 20, or should I be doing 2h at least until I get bloodthirst?
Steam | XBL: Elazual | Last.fm
Stick to 2h Fury until you get titan's grip, then DW fury, if fury is how you want to level. Dual wielding 1 handers doesn't really amount to much of a damage increase over a 2h, without DW talents and +hit, and the miss streaks you get can be frustrating. Plus, if you level with 2handers, you'll have your skills up to date when you hit 60 and get titan's grip, which will be way better than leveling your skill from nothing. Using a 2h or dual wielding has no effect on bloodthirst. It just does damage based on your AP.
However, if you're stylistically attached to dual wielding, leveling that way will work fine for you, as it did for me. Leveling up your 2h skills when you hit 60 will suck, though.
Ah. I think I was mislead by a couple people who'd said it was possible in H ToC gear when they meant ToGC.
Sooo... I was under the impression that arms was fastest until 60 when you went prot. Stupid wow forums. You are saying it's ideal to level fury because of the heal, and just wait to DW until titan's grip?
I know I quoted Riale, but anyone can feel free to help.
I think I'll add this to the OP.
Edit: And added.
Justin, I'd argue that if you like big swords, Fury is the way to go, since you get two. Arms is more a spec for people who enjoy blending, being a blender, and blender related blood activities.
Awesome, I'll check that out tonight after work.
I'm almost 80, I'd like to get some gear for Heroic 5-man tanking. What do I do? What do I get? Is there shit on the AH that I should buy? Crafted stuff? Any particular quests I should do? Whatever'll get me to 535 Defense is what I need. I'm a Jewelcrafter, so I'll have access to 3x34Def gems.
As far as dungeon loot goes, I've singled out a few choice items I'll be gunning for immediately: Black Heart off of ToC Normal, Essence of Gossamer off of Azjol Nerub HC, Red Sword of Courage off of Utgarde Pinnacle HC, and the Royal Crest of Lordaeron (what a fantastic shield, really) off of Culling of Stratholme HC.
If you want crafted items go for these:
Titansteel Shield Wall
Tempered Titansteel Helm
Tempered Titansteel boots
Engineering epic tank gun
Jewelcrafting epic tank ring/neck
LW epic tank cloak(no defense on this though)
Daunting and Tempered Saronite blue pieces to fill in other spots pre heroics.
If you have a main with a load of conquest sitting around buy the 60 badge BoE bracers, and the valor badge tank cloak. Some of the above pieces aren't really worth having crafted, like the JC tank neck, because you will replace it very fast, but if you have a ton of gold sitting around it's better than nothing to start.
There are various other tanking BoEs you could get on the AH too, that drop from heroics and are decent starter pieces for cheap.
ITT the main source of his downplaying stems from the fact that the other classes are now fully capable tanks rather than novelty things. I understand his fear, but it isn't as though warrior tanks have fallen to the wayside...although now that people favor stam stacking you do fall a bit behind (Though I think warriors place ahead of paladins in the stam stacking game.).
He's a bit undergeared for stuffs (not heroics, just he took a break shortly after Uld and didn't get too far), but that really isn't going to be an issue. I'm just trying to address his bitching so he doesn't have a skewed view. Help is much appreciated!
In general, warriors fall a bit behind the other three tanks in terms of AOE threat. Their threat is sufficient to hold threat, but against intense burst AOE, they'll probably fight very hard to maintain a hold on the mobs, and in general, when it comes to AOE tanking, warriors have to work much harder than the other tanks for less total threat. Single target threat they are monsters though.
however, for some, the rage mechanic is annoying as warriors are more reliant than any other tank on being hit to generate sufficient threat...all three other tanks can manage 75-80% of their maximum TPS as long as they're attacking, warriors would be lucky to make 60% when not being attacked.
(dpsing toc in prot was INTERESTING. two prot specs ftl)
That said, I switched mains about 3 months ago to my Warrior from my Paladin, and I'll never look back. I tank everything just as well as before, I bring sunders to my raid(We're a 10 man and I'm the only Warrior), and most importantly, Warrior tanking is fun as hell. If your friend wants to be a tank where sustained AoE threat isn't as good and you have to work harder to get the most of out of your class, but you are equipped with tons of tools like stuns, spell reflect, a short CD interrupt, charging around the battlefield, etc. then tell him to stick with the Warrior.
It's all personal preference though, and if he's not somebody that's willing to put in the work to be good at the class then Paladin would be better for him, because it's easier to tank on one.
sure, its different utility, but its just as numerous
warriors have - sunders, mobility (Charge, intercept), spell reflect, conc blow, shockwave, shield bash, disarm, intervene
paladins have - cleanses, hand of freedom, hand of sacrifice (this alone is very powerful...as an offtank, when not actively tanking you can throw it on the main tank. the damage you absorb is not remotely dangerous to you, and will give him a free shield wall), hand of salvation for threat-sensitive fights (admittedly not too many of these exist), blessing of protection, divine shield, judgements of light and wisdom, both of which are near-mandatory raid buffs, and an extremely long duration stun, though long cooldown too. they also have Sacred Shield which isn't to be underestimated
Maybe he's thinking that given a raid that has 1 tank and only needs one other he'd be relegated to dps, or that we might ask him to dps in favor of another class tanking (bear as he sees them in currently the best spot).
Ultimately I really dont think its his unwillingness to tank things, he seems to enjoy that play style from stories we've been swapping. I think he sees the trend of pugs demanding that a tank bring xxk hp to the table, and warriors fall behind in that fight.
Thanks for clarifying though (on both buffs/debuffs both tanks provide, and how things fall in the stam war department), and I wish I had checked out warrior tanking as it seems really interesting, but screw leveling and gearing one up right now.
But then there are fights like Jaraxxus where it's very nice to be able to take care of interrupting fireballs yourself if you're a warrior tank instead of having to rely on someone else to interrupt for you if you're a paladin. Of course you have to be hit capped for it to be reliable, which can lean back toward frustration depending on your gear.