Okay, try this... get your head out of your ass you honkey cracker...
You're a racist piece of shit and I hope you die. That insult have deeply scarred me. And I'll have to carry the burdon of that for the rest of my life.
Well, I gotta get some work done, but it's nice to have an intelligent discussion (disregarding a few 'retard' or 'idiot' comments) on the internet every once in a while, thanks guys. While we may disagree on the facts at hand, at least all of the people here do seem to be concerned with the way the world works, and racism in general. It's actually pretty promising to see so many people taking an interest in this, and while I may think the situation at hand is the result of a gross over-reaction, I can see where most everyone here is coming from. Whatever we say about the finer points of the argument, the concensus seems to agree that racism is a problem that needs to be fixed. I think going back a few years, a discussion like this wouldn't really be possible, so regardless of the fact that I disagree with a few people regarding the whole semantics/intent thing, I can still come away from this thread with a good feeling of hope for the future.
So you're saying that since there isn't a long history of black racism against white people that it's impossible to find any hint of it now? That may be the most racist thing I've read in this thread so far.
You may want to catch up on your history reading and comprehension, mang, as well as work on your understanding of how oppression and racism works in the first place, especially as how power (and the positions of power) relates to racism.
So you're saying that since there isn't a long history of black racism against white people that it's impossible to find any hint of it now? That may be the most racist thing I've read in this thread so far.
You may want to catch up on your history reading and comprehension, mang, as well as work on your understanding of how oppression and racism works in the first place, especially as how power (and the positions of power) relates to racism.
You mean like the power to force a large company to fire someone through the use of angry mob threat-tactics? Yeah, I see your point.
Oh shit guys, Elkamil is infringing on free speech because banned scottman! Everyone knows that the first amendment means that you can act like a racist douchebag and never have to suffer the repercussions! Shame on you, Elkamil.
God, I'm fucking glad that kid is gone. Acting juvenile would've been an improvement on him.
So you're saying that since there isn't a long history of black racism against white people that it's impossible to find any hint of it now? That may be the most racist thing I've read in this thread so far.
You may want to catch up on your history reading and comprehension, mang, as well as work on your understanding of how oppression and racism works in the first place, especially as how power (and the positions of power) relates to racism.
You mean like the power to force a large company to fire someone through the use of angry mob threat-tactics? Yeah, I see your point.
Ahh... so, Don Imus is allowed to say whatever he wants, but when it upsets people and they voice their displeasure, that is unacceptable?
Sentry on
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
wrote:
When I was a little kid, I always pretended I was the hero,' Skip said.
'Fuck yeah, me too. What little kid ever pretended to be part of the lynch-mob?'
So you're saying that since there isn't a long history of black racism against white people that it's impossible to find any hint of it now? That may be the most racist thing I've read in this thread so far.
You may want to catch up on your history reading and comprehension, mang, as well as work on your understanding of how oppression and racism works in the first place, especially as how power (and the positions of power) relates to racism.
You mean like the power to force a large company to fire someone through the use of angry mob threat-tactics? Yeah, I see your point.
Ahh... so, Don Imus is allowed to say whatever he wants, but when it upsets people and they voice their displeasure, that is unacceptable?
Actually, I was rebutting the notion that white people have all the power and black people are helpless victims.
Oh shit guys, Elkamil is infringing on free speech because banned scottman! Everyone knows that the first amendment means that you can act like a racist douchebag and never have to suffer the repercussions! Shame on you, Elkamil.
God, I'm fucking glad that kid is gone. Acting juvenile would've been an improvement on him.
He's still not a racist though, he just finds humor in this entire discussion.
You mean like the power to force a large company to fire someone through the use of angry mob threat-tactics? Yeah, I see your point.
This is so fucking hysterical - by this I mean overwrought-hysterical not haha-hysterical. No one was burning torches in front of MSNBC's headquarters. Some listeners were offended, some non-listeners were offended, and most tellingly, a few sponsors didn't want to be associated with that kind of racism.
OMG not being paid to spout off racist one-liners is a jackboot on a human face forever.
So you're saying that since there isn't a long history of black racism against white people that it's impossible to find any hint of it now? That may be the most racist thing I've read in this thread so far.
You may want to catch up on your history reading and comprehension, mang, as well as work on your understanding of how oppression and racism works in the first place, especially as how power (and the positions of power) relates to racism.
You mean like the power to force a large company to fire someone through the use of angry mob threat-tactics? Yeah, I see your point.
Ahh... so, Don Imus is allowed to say whatever he wants, but when it upsets people and they voice their displeasure, that is unacceptable?
Actually, I was rebutting the notion that white people have all the power and black people are helpless victims.
You may want to catch up on your history reading and comprehension, mang, as well as work on your understanding of how oppression and racism works in the first place, especially as how power (and the positions of power) relates to racism.
No, he got away with it because he was a black guy making fun of white people. If a white comedian dressed up in black face in order to specifially lampoon black attitudes about white people, or ignorance of white culture, what do you think would have happened?
God, this isn't that hard. Look at the history of blackface and then think about your question. The rampant idiocy and racism of blackface minstrelsy guarantees that white people doing blackface to lampoon blacks are going to get shit for it. The few times I've seen white people do this within the last 20 or so years and not get shit for it, the comedians were actually making fun of white people doing retarded blackface imitations.
So you're saying that since there isn't a long history of black racism against white people that it's impossible to find any hint of it now? That may be the most racist thing I've read in this thread so far.
No, I didn't say that. How you got that from what I posted is beyond me. And I'm going to assume that you skipped the recently departed scottman's posts completely, otherwise you've got a weird idea of what's racist. Then again, given the way you've responded so far, this doesn't exactly surprise me.
I will say, though, that Chappelle in "whiteface" vs. some white guy in blackface aren't really parallel situations.
No, he got away with it because he was a black guy making fun of white people. If a white comedian dressed up in black face in order to specifially lampoon black attitudes about white people, or ignorance of white culture, what do you think would have happened?
God, this isn't that hard. Look at the history of blackface and then think about your question. The rampant idiocy and racism of blackface minstrelsy guarantees that white people doing blackface to lampoon blacks are going to get shit for it. The few times I've seen white people do this within the last 20 or so years and not get shit for it, the comedians were actually making fun of white people doing retarded blackface imitations.
So you're saying that since there isn't a long history of black racism against white people that it's impossible to find any hint of it now? That may be the most racist thing I've read in this thread so far.
No, I didn't say that. How you got that from what I posted is beyond me. And I'm going to assume that you skipped the recently departed scottman's posts completely, otherwise you've got a weird idea of what's racist. Then again, given the way you've responded so far, this doesn't exactly surprise me.
I will say, though, that Chappelle in "whiteface" vs. some white guy in blackface aren't really parallel situations.
Well I think that Chappelle in whiteface is the exact same fucking thing as some white guy in blackface (playing devil's advocate). Try and tell me I'm wrong without arguing that it's ok for black people to be racist.
You may want to catch up on your history reading and comprehension, mang, as well as work on your understanding of how oppression and racism works in the first place, especially as how power (and the positions of power) relates to racism.
Are you quoting that for a reason? It doesn't say anything like "white people have all the power and black people are helpless victims".
Well I think that Chappelle in whiteface is the exact same fucking thing as some white guy in blackface (playing devil's advocate). Try and tell me I'm wrong without arguing that it's ok for black people to be racist.
As to the nuances of comedy, this point bears repeating: there is a major difference between a) exploring racial stereotypes in order to understand and mock the stereotypes, and b) invoking stereotypes for comedic effect.
No, he got away with it because he was a black guy making fun of white people. If a white comedian dressed up in black face in order to specifially lampoon black attitudes about white people, or ignorance of white culture, what do you think would have happened?
God, this isn't that hard. Look at the history of blackface and then think about your question. The rampant idiocy and racism of blackface minstrelsy guarantees that white people doing blackface to lampoon blacks are going to get shit for it. The few times I've seen white people do this within the last 20 or so years and not get shit for it, the comedians were actually making fun of white people doing retarded blackface imitations.
So you're saying that since there isn't a long history of black racism against white people that it's impossible to find any hint of it now? That may be the most racist thing I've read in this thread so far.
No, I didn't say that. How you got that from what I posted is beyond me. And I'm going to assume that you skipped the recently departed scottman's posts completely, otherwise you've got a weird idea of what's racist. Then again, given the way you've responded so far, this doesn't exactly surprise me.
I will say, though, that Chappelle in "whiteface" vs. some white guy in blackface aren't really parallel situations.
Well I think that Chappelle in whiteface is the exact same fucking thing as some white guy in blackface (playing devil's advocate). Try and tell me I'm wrong without arguing that it's ok for black people to be racist.
I missed a few pages, but I assume you are white, correct?
Do you honestly and truly care if a black guy parodies a white guy using makeup or a mask or what have you?
Mind you "white guy" is a nonsense term, just like "black guy" is. It's more about parodying a social class than a racial difference. You can parody a white trailer-hick differently then a white upper class white-collar worker, and there are plenty of gradients in between and above and below those two types of white man. Same goes for black people. Same goes for any ethnicity. Same goes for humanity on the whole.
Drez on
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Vargas PrimeKing of NothingJust a ShowRegistered Userregular
You mean like the power to force a large company to fire someone through the use of angry mob threat-tactics? Yeah, I see your point.
This is so fucking hysterical - by this I mean overwrought-hysterical not haha-hysterical. No one was burning torches in front of MSNBC's headquarters. Some listeners were offended, some non-listeners were offended, and most tellingly, a few sponsors didn't want to be associated with that kind of racism.
OMG not being paid to spout off racist one-liners is a jackboot on a human face forever.
I think the sponsors didn't want to be associated with the media attention that was cast on the whole thing.
If Imus had been fired for what he said, he would have been off the air a day or two after the incident. Instead, he was "suspended" a week after the fact (mind you, that suspension was even delayed so he could finish out this week of broadcasting) and subsequently fired because of the hyped-up negative attention brought to the situation by the media and the people shouting "bigot."
Again, I don't think Imus was funny when he said what he said, but acting like it's justice being done here is kind of blindly ignoring the real truth: He was fired because a relatively small, yet powerful group of people including Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton drew intense media attention to the situation. It's all about dollars, not what's "right."
I would argue that a huge swath of America was disgusted by what he said, and they were not tricked into this disgust through the influence of Sharpton, Jackson, et cetera.
No, he got away with it because he was a black guy making fun of white people. If a white comedian dressed up in black face in order to specifially lampoon black attitudes about white people, or ignorance of white culture, what do you think would have happened?
God, this isn't that hard. Look at the history of blackface and then think about your question. The rampant idiocy and racism of blackface minstrelsy guarantees that white people doing blackface to lampoon blacks are going to get shit for it. The few times I've seen white people do this within the last 20 or so years and not get shit for it, the comedians were actually making fun of white people doing retarded blackface imitations.
So you're saying that since there isn't a long history of black racism against white people that it's impossible to find any hint of it now? That may be the most racist thing I've read in this thread so far.
No, I didn't say that. How you got that from what I posted is beyond me. And I'm going to assume that you skipped the recently departed scottman's posts completely, otherwise you've got a weird idea of what's racist. Then again, given the way you've responded so far, this doesn't exactly surprise me.
I will say, though, that Chappelle in "whiteface" vs. some white guy in blackface aren't really parallel situations.
Well I think that Chappelle in whiteface is the exact same fucking thing as some white guy in blackface (playing devil's advocate). Try and tell me I'm wrong without arguing that it's ok for black people to be racist.
I missed a few pages, but I assume you are white, correct?
Do you honestly and truly care if a black guy parodies a white guy using makeup or a mask or what have you?
Mind you "white guy" is a nonsense term, just like "black guy" is. It's more about parodying a social class than a racial difference. You can parody a white trailer-hick differently then a white upper class white-collar worker, and there are plenty of gradients in between and above and below those two types of white man. Same goes for black people. Same goes for any ethnicity. Same goes for humanity on the whole.
Yes I'm white. And what if I really was offended by Chappelle in whiteface? How is it any different that a white guy in blackface if he's trying to make the same exact fucking societal criticism?
Honestly, I think there's a much deeper unspoken argument going on in this thread. Or rather a much less deep one.
I think this comes down to the fact that not very many people here give a fuck about Don Imus. Not many people are invested in his fate. I don't really care if he gets fired. I think he is classless, unfunny, and about 30 years past his prime. I could not honestly care less. I think people and possibly even his employers are using this as an excuse to get rid of him. I mean, I think people are genuinely appalled at his racist comment too, don't get me wrong. I am. But ultimately I'm not very willing to entertain the other end of the argument because the fate of Don Imus's career is something I honestly could not give two rat's asses about. And I feel TheCanMan is arguing on his behalf because he truly likes Don Imus. For instance, when people disparage Orson Scott Card for being openly anti-gay or whatever, yeah okay I agree he shouldn't make the comments, but I tend to forgive or ignore them and go on to enjoy his work. Maybe that's not a perfect analogy, but I think people get wrapped up in defense of celebrity more because they enjoy the figure than because they really believe that the celebrity is innocent of wrongdoing.
I would argue that a huge swath of America was disgusted by what he said, and they were not tricked into this disgust through the influence of Sharpton, Jackson, et cetera.
And I would argue that you're completely wrong.
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Vargas PrimeKing of NothingJust a ShowRegistered Userregular
You mean like the power to force a large company to fire someone through the use of angry mob threat-tactics? Yeah, I see your point.
This is so fucking hysterical - by this I mean overwrought-hysterical not haha-hysterical. No one was burning torches in front of MSNBC's headquarters. Some listeners were offended, some non-listeners were offended, and most tellingly, a few sponsors didn't want to be associated with that kind of racism.
OMG not being paid to spout off racist one-liners is a jackboot on a human face forever.
I think the sponsors didn't want to be associated with the media attention that was cast on the whole thing.
If Imus had been fired for what he said, he would have been off the air a day or two after the incident. Instead, he was "suspended" a week after the fact (mind you, that suspension was even delayed so he could finish out this week of broadcasting) and subsequently fired because of the hyped-up negative attention brought to the situation by the media and the people shouting "bigot."
Again, I don't think Imus was funny when he said what he said, but acting like it's justice being done here is kind of blindly ignoring the real truth: He was fired because a relatively small, yet powerful group of people including Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton drew intense media attention to the situation. It's all about dollars, not what's "right."
I would argue that a huge swath of America was disgusted by what he said, and they were not tricked into this disgust through the influence of Sharpton, Jackson, et cetera.
I dunno, man. If you listen to talk radio over the last few days or watch some of the news interviews and what have you, there are an awful lot of people who feel that this was a knee-jerk overreaction.
Yes I'm white. And what if I really was offended by Chappelle in whiteface? How is it any different that a white guy in blackface if he's trying to make the same exact fucking societal criticism?
Just asking, boss. I don't think very many white people get insulted at black-to-white "racism" or parody or anything of the sort. I don't. And I'm not sure I would feel the same way if I were black and had to deal with white-to-black racism. That is a double-standard, but that's due to actual history that actually happened and I don't think it's reprehensible for this double-standard to exist at the current time. Maybe in 300 years it will be outmoded, but not yet. It's kind of stupid - sorry, but I really think it is - to tell people "don't be insulted."
I would argue that a huge swath of America was disgusted by what he said, and they were not tricked into this disgust through the influence of Sharpton, Jackson, et cetera.
And I would argue that you're completely wrong.
Okay, explain to me how someone who didn't find these comments offensive would suddenly find them offensive because Al Sharpton told them to.
Honestly, I think there's a much deeper unspoken argument going on in this thread. Or rather a much less deep one.
I think this comes down to the fact that not very many people here give a fuck about Don Imus. Not many people are invested in his fate. I don't really care if he gets fired. I think he is classless, unfunny, and about 30 years past his prime. I could not honestly care less. I think people and possibly even his employers are using this as an excuse to get rid of him. I mean, I think people are genuinely appalled at his racist comment too, don't get me wrong. I am. But ultimately I'm not very willing to entertain the other end of the argument because the fate of Don Imus's career is something I honestly could not give two rat's asses about. And I feel TheCanMan is arguing on his behalf because he truly likes Don Imus. For instance, when people disparage Orson Scott Card for being openly anti-gay or whatever, yeah okay I agree he shouldn't make the comments, but I tend to forgive or ignore them and go on to enjoy his work. Maybe that's not a perfect analogy, but I think people get wrapped up in defense of celebrity more because they enjoy the figure than because they really believe that the celebrity is innocent of wrongdoing.
Actually, I wouldn't even call myself a fan of Imus. I've listened to his show and find it entertaining, and I wish him well and hope someone picks up his show. But I'm not a huge fan. I'm much much more concerned with the effect this will have on comedy in general.
I would argue that a huge swath of America was disgusted by what he said, and they were not tricked into this disgust through the influence of Sharpton, Jackson, et cetera.
And I would argue that you're completely wrong.
Okay, explain to me how someone who didn't find these comments offensive would suddenly find them offensive because Al Sharpton told them to.
I can't explain that, but I would say that a very great many Americans are media influenced by loudmouths like Al Sharpton. That's an aside to the current debate; I agree with your ultimate point, but America's hive mind is extremely mediamalleable (new word I just made up).
I would argue that a huge swath of America was disgusted by what he said, and they were not tricked into this disgust through the influence of Sharpton, Jackson, et cetera.
And I would argue that you're completely wrong.
Okay, explain to me how someone who didn't find these comments offensive would suddenly find them offensive because Al Sharpton told them to.
Because I feel there's a small portion of the population that's just waiting to find racism somewhere so that they can feel empowered.
Because I feel there's a small portion of the population that's just waiting to find racism somewhere so that they can feel empowered.
That doesn't in any way explain the supposed case of people being convinced by Sharpton that the comments were bigoted.
Even if there is such portion of the population, so what? Great for them. What Imus said was racist. That is evident. Everything else (Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Barack Obama, your supposed minority of ever-watchful people who feed on racist comments, the inane cable news chat shows, talk radio discussion of a double standard w/r/t hip hop, the bemoaning of a 'double standard,' and Imus' charity work) is beside the point. He said unacceptable, racist comments about a group of young women, and he deserved to get shitcanned.
Can't we all just agree that Al Sharton looks ridiculous? I mean, come on, what's with that hair, guy? I'm not going to mess with Jesse Jackson, though, because I hear his eyes can shoot lasers. Imus, though....If you're gonna wear a wig, try to avoid the poofy mullett wig, alright?
Seriously, everyone just take a deep breath, Imus has been fired. Maybe it would be better to focus on the progress we've made so far, as opposed to the progress we've yet to make. Can we at least agree that Imus' comments had no real, tangible impact on race relations (aside from the impact that was manufactured by the media, and his personal situation), and move on? Imus said some stupid shit, he got fired, now we can all move on to worrying about real problems, and not some guy insulting a basketball team. Or Anna Nicole's baby. Or any of that inconsequential crap you see on the news most of the time.
Change comes with time, and some old white dude saying something (racist or not) should not be a big enough blow to set race-relations reeling. It was blown way out of prorotion, and did nothing to actually serve the cause of moving forward towards equality. This was all a big hub-bub about gettting a geezer fired, now it's over, so we can try tackling real race problems.
I think it's telling that the majority of the discussion in this thread is about tangential shit. If it isn't about deflecting the criticism, it's about legitimizing Imus' comments.
I think the sponsors didn't want to be associated with the media attention that was cast on the whole thing.
If Imus had been fired for what he said, he would have been off the air a day or two after the incident. Instead, he was "suspended" a week after the fact (mind you, that suspension was even delayed so he could finish out this week of broadcasting) and subsequently fired because of the hyped-up negative attention brought to the situation by the media and the people shouting "bigot."
Again, I don't think Imus was funny when he said what he said, but acting like it's justice being done here is kind of blindly ignoring the real truth: He was fired because a relatively small, yet powerful group of people including Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton drew intense media attention to the situation. It's all about dollars, not what's "right."
Obama and Clinton wouldn't be presidential front-runners if they were tone-deaf to the way the American public reacts to shit like this. Sharpton and Jackson wouldn't be in the position they're in if they misrepresented the views of the people they purport to represent.
Public companies that rely upon consumer opinion and advertiser support like MSNBC would be stupid not to take the public opinion into account.
Well I think that Chappelle in whiteface is the exact same fucking thing as some white guy in blackface (playing devil's advocate). Try and tell me I'm wrong without arguing that it's ok for black people to be racist.
Arg. Context my man, context.
Chappelle was parodying old blackface skits by reversing the idea. He wasn't making fun of white people, but rather the old blackface skits. And while he does use racial humor, it's not in a malicious way. He plays off stereotypes, that is the core of much of his humor
A white guy in blackface wouldn't be a parody unless it was carefully done. That is because the connections to the still recent and extremely racist practice of blackface make it very touchy. A guy in blackface doing stereotypically "black" things would be an obvious attack towards blacks. However, if the white guy in blackface was trying and failing miserably to do "black" things then the joke would be on himself and blackface skits, not blacks in general, so that would be ok.
Proto on
and her knees up on the glove compartment
took out her barrettes and her hair spilled out like rootbeer
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Vargas PrimeKing of NothingJust a ShowRegistered Userregular
I think the very fact that this is being so hotly debated here and in national news makes it not-so-evident. When there are African Americans claiming that they don't feel what he said was worth the hubbub, I don't think you can claim that as a "fact" at all.
Change comes with time, and some old white dude saying something (racist or not) should not be a big enough blow to set race-relations reeling. It was blown way out of prorotion, and did nothing to actually serve the cause of moving forward towards equality. This was all a big hub-bub about gettting a geezer fired, now it's over, so we can try tackling real race problems.
The way I see it, public repudiation of racist comments is part of "making progress".
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
Well I think that Chappelle in whiteface is the exact same fucking thing as some white guy in blackface (playing devil's advocate). Try and tell me I'm wrong without arguing that it's ok for black people to be racist.
Arg. Context my man, context.
Chappelle was parodying old blackface skits by reversing the idea. He wasn't making fun of white people, but rather the old blackface skits. And while he does use racial humor, it's not in a malicious way. He plays off stereotypes, that is the core of much of his humor
A white guy in blackface wouldn't be a parody unless it was carefully done. That is because the connections to the still recent and extremely racist practice of blackface make it very touchy. A guy in blackface doing stereotypically "black" things would be an obvious attack towards blacks. However, if the white guy in blackface was trying and failing miserably to do "black" things then the joke would be on himself and blackface skits, not blacks in general, so that would be ok.
Because I feel there's a small portion of the population that's just waiting to find racism somewhere so that they can feel empowered.
That doesn't in any way explain the supposed case of people being convinced by Sharpton that the comments were bigoted.
Even if there is such portion of the population, so what? Great for them. What Imus said was racist. That is evident. Everything else (Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Barack Obama, your supposed minority of ever-watchful people who feed on racist comments, the inane cable news chat shows, talk radio discussion of a double standard w/r/t hip hop, the bemoaning of a 'double standard,' and Imus' charity work) is beside the point. He said unacceptable, racist comments about a group of young women, and he deserved to get shitcanned.
And I think he made a joke that a thousand black comedians make in reverse and nothing happens. I think the only reason the became a national story is because Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are race-bating shit bags who'll use any excuse they can get to get their face on TV regardless for the ramifications they have on race relations in this country. I think that if Imus hadn't been so fucking afraid that he'd get zero support from CBS and NBC (and obviously for good reason), that he could have come no the air and just offered a simple apology and stated that it was just a bad joke in poor taste that all of this would have blown away. I think that it's not the end of the fucking world when a couple of people get their feeling hurt. And I think that the 1st Amendment shouldn't come with a disclaimer that it applies differently depending on the color of your skin.
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Last time I heard, Scott was a Ritz cracker..and he didn't honk.
Fun times.
You're a racist piece of shit and I hope you die. That insult have deeply scarred me. And I'll have to carry the burdon of that for the rest of my life.
Carry on.
You may want to catch up on your history reading and comprehension, mang, as well as work on your understanding of how oppression and racism works in the first place, especially as how power (and the positions of power) relates to racism.
You mean like the power to force a large company to fire someone through the use of angry mob threat-tactics? Yeah, I see your point.
God, I'm fucking glad that kid is gone. Acting juvenile would've been an improvement on him.
Ahh... so, Don Imus is allowed to say whatever he wants, but when it upsets people and they voice their displeasure, that is unacceptable?
Actually, I was rebutting the notion that white people have all the power and black people are helpless victims.
He's still not a racist though, he just finds humor in this entire discussion.
In order to rebut an argument, someone must first make that argument.
OMG not being paid to spout off racist one-liners is a jackboot on a human face forever.
Who's been espousing these views?
No, I didn't say that. How you got that from what I posted is beyond me. And I'm going to assume that you skipped the recently departed scottman's posts completely, otherwise you've got a weird idea of what's racist. Then again, given the way you've responded so far, this doesn't exactly surprise me.
I will say, though, that Chappelle in "whiteface" vs. some white guy in blackface aren't really parallel situations.
Well I think that Chappelle in whiteface is the exact same fucking thing as some white guy in blackface (playing devil's advocate). Try and tell me I'm wrong without arguing that it's ok for black people to be racist.
Are you quoting that for a reason? It doesn't say anything like "white people have all the power and black people are helpless victims".
I missed a few pages, but I assume you are white, correct?
Do you honestly and truly care if a black guy parodies a white guy using makeup or a mask or what have you?
Mind you "white guy" is a nonsense term, just like "black guy" is. It's more about parodying a social class than a racial difference. You can parody a white trailer-hick differently then a white upper class white-collar worker, and there are plenty of gradients in between and above and below those two types of white man. Same goes for black people. Same goes for any ethnicity. Same goes for humanity on the whole.
I think the sponsors didn't want to be associated with the media attention that was cast on the whole thing.
If Imus had been fired for what he said, he would have been off the air a day or two after the incident. Instead, he was "suspended" a week after the fact (mind you, that suspension was even delayed so he could finish out this week of broadcasting) and subsequently fired because of the hyped-up negative attention brought to the situation by the media and the people shouting "bigot."
Again, I don't think Imus was funny when he said what he said, but acting like it's justice being done here is kind of blindly ignoring the real truth: He was fired because a relatively small, yet powerful group of people including Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton drew intense media attention to the situation. It's all about dollars, not what's "right."
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Yes I'm white. And what if I really was offended by Chappelle in whiteface? How is it any different that a white guy in blackface if he's trying to make the same exact fucking societal criticism?
I think this comes down to the fact that not very many people here give a fuck about Don Imus. Not many people are invested in his fate. I don't really care if he gets fired. I think he is classless, unfunny, and about 30 years past his prime. I could not honestly care less. I think people and possibly even his employers are using this as an excuse to get rid of him. I mean, I think people are genuinely appalled at his racist comment too, don't get me wrong. I am. But ultimately I'm not very willing to entertain the other end of the argument because the fate of Don Imus's career is something I honestly could not give two rat's asses about. And I feel TheCanMan is arguing on his behalf because he truly likes Don Imus. For instance, when people disparage Orson Scott Card for being openly anti-gay or whatever, yeah okay I agree he shouldn't make the comments, but I tend to forgive or ignore them and go on to enjoy his work. Maybe that's not a perfect analogy, but I think people get wrapped up in defense of celebrity more because they enjoy the figure than because they really believe that the celebrity is innocent of wrongdoing.
And I would argue that you're completely wrong.
I dunno, man. If you listen to talk radio over the last few days or watch some of the news interviews and what have you, there are an awful lot of people who feel that this was a knee-jerk overreaction.
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Just asking, boss. I don't think very many white people get insulted at black-to-white "racism" or parody or anything of the sort. I don't. And I'm not sure I would feel the same way if I were black and had to deal with white-to-black racism. That is a double-standard, but that's due to actual history that actually happened and I don't think it's reprehensible for this double-standard to exist at the current time. Maybe in 300 years it will be outmoded, but not yet. It's kind of stupid - sorry, but I really think it is - to tell people "don't be insulted."
Okay, explain to me how someone who didn't find these comments offensive would suddenly find them offensive because Al Sharpton told them to.
Actually, I wouldn't even call myself a fan of Imus. I've listened to his show and find it entertaining, and I wish him well and hope someone picks up his show. But I'm not a huge fan. I'm much much more concerned with the effect this will have on comedy in general.
I can't explain that, but I would say that a very great many Americans are media influenced by loudmouths like Al Sharpton. That's an aside to the current debate; I agree with your ultimate point, but America's hive mind is extremely mediamalleable (new word I just made up).
Because I feel there's a small portion of the population that's just waiting to find racism somewhere so that they can feel empowered.
I do watch Fox News, though, to hear opinions different from my own.
That doesn't in any way explain the supposed case of people being convinced by Sharpton that the comments were bigoted.
Even if there is such portion of the population, so what? Great for them. What Imus said was racist. That is evident. Everything else (Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, Barack Obama, your supposed minority of ever-watchful people who feed on racist comments, the inane cable news chat shows, talk radio discussion of a double standard w/r/t hip hop, the bemoaning of a 'double standard,' and Imus' charity work) is beside the point. He said unacceptable, racist comments about a group of young women, and he deserved to get shitcanned.
Seriously, everyone just take a deep breath, Imus has been fired. Maybe it would be better to focus on the progress we've made so far, as opposed to the progress we've yet to make. Can we at least agree that Imus' comments had no real, tangible impact on race relations (aside from the impact that was manufactured by the media, and his personal situation), and move on? Imus said some stupid shit, he got fired, now we can all move on to worrying about real problems, and not some guy insulting a basketball team. Or Anna Nicole's baby. Or any of that inconsequential crap you see on the news most of the time.
Change comes with time, and some old white dude saying something (racist or not) should not be a big enough blow to set race-relations reeling. It was blown way out of prorotion, and did nothing to actually serve the cause of moving forward towards equality. This was all a big hub-bub about gettting a geezer fired, now it's over, so we can try tackling real race problems.
Public companies that rely upon consumer opinion and advertiser support like MSNBC would be stupid not to take the public opinion into account.
Arg. Context my man, context.
Chappelle was parodying old blackface skits by reversing the idea. He wasn't making fun of white people, but rather the old blackface skits. And while he does use racial humor, it's not in a malicious way. He plays off stereotypes, that is the core of much of his humor
A white guy in blackface wouldn't be a parody unless it was carefully done. That is because the connections to the still recent and extremely racist practice of blackface make it very touchy. A guy in blackface doing stereotypically "black" things would be an obvious attack towards blacks. However, if the white guy in blackface was trying and failing miserably to do "black" things then the joke would be on himself and blackface skits, not blacks in general, so that would be ok.
took out her barrettes and her hair spilled out like rootbeer
I think the very fact that this is being so hotly debated here and in national news makes it not-so-evident. When there are African Americans claiming that they don't feel what he said was worth the hubbub, I don't think you can claim that as a "fact" at all.
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And I think he made a joke that a thousand black comedians make in reverse and nothing happens. I think the only reason the became a national story is because Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are race-bating shit bags who'll use any excuse they can get to get their face on TV regardless for the ramifications they have on race relations in this country. I think that if Imus hadn't been so fucking afraid that he'd get zero support from CBS and NBC (and obviously for good reason), that he could have come no the air and just offered a simple apology and stated that it was just a bad joke in poor taste that all of this would have blown away. I think that it's not the end of the fucking world when a couple of people get their feeling hurt. And I think that the 1st Amendment shouldn't come with a disclaimer that it applies differently depending on the color of your skin.