Don't be a hater, I was first here and any victory however petty and small count.
So Mark Sheppard as the Director. Is it me or has he cornered the market for smug charming villany? Burn Notice, Leverage and now Chuck. Really He is the only guy that can pull of(and should) wearing sunglasses inside(He is Really Cool People). Even though he didn't do it this time, it would have suit it him so well.
Hope they are setting him up for a big part of the finale(the finale finale) as it would be a shame to wast him.
I always enjoy Badger, but Chevy Chase's Rourke was a much better and more interesting villain than generic guy-in-dark-suit villain.
Also was only in three of the last four Fulcrum plots. Though The Ring generally is lame thus far. Fulcrum had a clear purpose, even if it was until very late in the game nebulous why it was so important for them.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Well, thats because we actually saw Rourke for more then a minute and they spent a lot of time setting him up vis a vi Chuck, Chucks dad and Fulcrum.
Whereas Sheppard had only Routh to work with, The Ring is illdefined and like I said no screentime.
It would be nice to learn what the hell The Ring wants. I mean we never really learn what Fulcrum wanted either, but CIA spies gone bad was enough to keep thing interesting. The Ring? Different name, Same Shit or something new.
Kipling217 on
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
Fulcrum was for reasons that were unclear til the end, obsessed with Intersect technology. But we knew they wanted one, and given how effective Chuck the random Buy More nerd is with it, trained spies would be super effective, theoretically. Hooray, motivation!
The Ring... really hates Shaw? Because he really hates them?
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Well, thats because we actually saw Rourke for more then a minute and they spent a lot of time setting him up vis a vi Chuck, Chucks dad and Fulcrum.
Whereas Sheppard had only Routh to work with, The Ring is illdefined and like I said no screentime.
It would be nice to learn what the hell The Ring wants. I mean we never really learn what Fulcrum wanted either, but CIA spies gone bad was enough to keep thing interesting. The Ring? Different name, Same Shit or something new.
I realize that Sheppard had no screen time, but even in that brief period you can kind of tell what direction they're going in with him: generic evil-doer. Rourke's first moments on screen and big and loud and full of energy and you can tell this guy isn't just going to be some guy in a dark suit who makes evil sounds with his voice. Unfortunately, I didn't really get that from Sheppard last night. Hopefully, I'm wrong.
You know, the phony drama of "Does Shaw become a bad guy?" might be a little more suspenseful if Sarah hadn't already explained the story of her first kill to Shaw in the previous episode.
You know, the phony drama of "Does Shaw become a bad guy?" might be a little more suspenseful if Sarah hadn't already explained the story of her first kill to Shaw in the previous episode.
Except she didn't know who the target was, and it's not like Shaw was watching the visual representation of her red test like we were. How would he have made the connection?
That makes Shaw's wife a Ring agent, right? Or something? Since Sarah was assigned to take her out? Maybe they can talk some sense into Shaw and be like "Yo, your wife was a baddie, dude" and then everything will be peachy and Chuck will get the girl.
That makes Shaw's wife a Ring agent, right? Or something? Since Sarah was assigned to take her out? Maybe [strike]they[/strike] Casey can [strike]talk some sense[/strike] shoot some bullets into Shaw and then everything will be peachy and Chuck will get the girl.
I think this is a little more to the community's liking.
Why are people hating on Routh so much? He's playing the part that he's supposed to play flawlessly. He's an uncaring, heartless, wooden, skilled CIA operative. That's the character. No point hating him when he's doing his job correctly. Plus, he's Superman.
Minus the skilled part. He's a stupid character inserted for stupid reasons. There has been zero reason given to be interested in his character. He's a plot device.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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DHSChase lizards.....bark at donkeys..Registered Userregular
edited March 2010
Actually, to be honest I think most of the problem comes from bad writing for Sarah. There was plenty of reason to keep them apart without him be a love interest, and that could've come from consistent writing of her character and clear motivations. He got bogged down in that, though there was a need for better writing on his role.
I still liked Brandon Routh, there was not much wrong with how he acted.
Also I for a second I saw the name Mark Sheppard and thought "Holy Shit MORN IS RUNNING THE RING" Then, I realized that I was thinking Mark Allen Shepherd.
DHS on
"Grip 'em up, grip 'em, grip 'em good, said the Gryphon... to the pig."
I don't hate Routh, I just hate Shaw. I'm sure Routh would do just fine with the pained expression on Shaw's face as he realizes that he's trapped in a room Casey rigged with C4.
I don't think Shaw should have ever been a romantic interest for Sarah. He should have been the new boss that makes her remember what spies are supposed to be and had Shaw and Chuck compete for her that way. It would have been a better way to make Shaw not as hated, and they could have written Sarah as a better character.
As much as I love the show as it is now, part of me almost wants them to make it Chuck in Rome. Just to have a show that's willing to make such a change would make me happy. Keep Sarah and Casey with him and develop new characters. I know that won't happen, but I kind of wish it would.
They've already changed the show and they'd need to dump the supporting characters people like. So yeah, won't happen. But your first idea is golden. They just wanted a more 'solid' reason to keep them apart, though. And really, even though the episode was good, if the next episode was indeed the last for the season I'd be annoyed if they canceled it. But then I'll be annoyed if they cancel it in May too...
We need time time to enjoy being Shaw-less. Lots of time preferably.
If I could set-up season 3 -- I would allow Sarah and Chuck be together. There are plenty of interesting stories that can be told about spies who are lovers in the field. Additionally, I would remove the intersect 2.0 from Chuck because it's lame. I'd like to see Chuck become a real spy based solely on his own merits. Surely by the end of season 3 he will have acquired a bit of skill by osmosis. Plus it would allow the writers to make stories that don't end with a deus ex machina intersect ending.
There's no reason to remove the intersect. Chuck ALWAYS (ok, just mostly) solves everything by deus ex machina. Only difference we get with the new intersect is cool fight scenes vs lame ones.
The fight scenes are not that cool. Its obvious that Zach Levy is not a trained fighter in any way and he is tall enough that I suspect getting a realistic stunt double is hard. Most fights are Zach blocking obvious punches and kicking almost waist high.
On the Chuck/Sarah I would LOVE to see them as a real couple working together. They have enough chemistry to pull it off and it would be fun. It would have to be set in Burbank of course, as it is ground zero for terrorists in America.
Kipling217 on
The sky was full of stars, every star an exploding ship. One of ours.
Yeah, Strahovski's way better at it. Though to be fair, she wasn't great in the first season. I suspect you're right about Levi's body type being hard to find a good double for.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
I hope they don't drag their heels on the back half of the season. While the arc will be shorter than this one, they didn't really need 13 episodes to get to where we are right now and easily could have condensed it down a bit. Sarah and Shaw should have gotten together over a longer period, perhaps while she's moping over Chuck because she is forcing him to focus on becoming a real spy after realizing that's what he really wants to do. But not just randomly falling for another dude she works with because he gets her coffee.
Also I'd like Chuck's first real kill to be Shaw in the season finale, where Chuck realizes that sometimes it's necessary and ok to kill as a spy. Perhaps next episode Shaw is mildly hurt but gets away, only to come back and wreak havoc in the last few episodes after becoming buddies with The Ring. And then Chuck blows him up with a bazooka or something.
On another note, I personally like Intersect 2.0. But a different route that they could have went with was to give him the wrist computer. Chuck would have something to add to more situations without giving him a complete deus ex machina. On the other hand, Scott Bakula also showed Chuck that he can force himself to flash on things that aren't in the database, but I don't remember if they've gone anywhere with that. Perhaps in the last episode when he flashed on the vending machine, but nothing else particularly comes to mind. I recall him having to concentrate pretty hard to flash in the S2 finale for it to work.
Given the new Intersect abilities, I do wish they had done more with it than Kung Fu. They started the season down this path, but then abandoned it. I think the last time he flashed on anything other than fighting skills was extracting the bullet from Casey's leg?
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Nah, Scott Bakula specifically said that the thing he made Chuck flash on was in the Intersect, because "he put it there."
I also would have liked Chuck to have the wrist computer, but that doesn't mean he can't still get it. Scottie's coming back, right? Maybe he's been away all this time building a second wrist compy so they can be computer buddies.
That was a different thing. In Chevy Chase's evil Intersect lair there was a keycard that wasn't in the Intersect that Chuck magically deciphered because Papa B said he could.
And yes, Bakula shall return! Possibly as crazypants Papa Bartowski.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
So, in complete disregard to the "The obvious always happens" rule, anyone else think that we're being mislead on the whole "Shaw is going to kill Sarah in revenge" thing? Personally, I see several things happening, none of which are "Shaw kills Sarah solely for revenge"
1. Shaw wants to know who gave her the target for her Red Test, in order to find out who gave the order for his wife to die. He doesn't care about Sarah as she was just an unwitting pawn.
2. Shaw realizes the whole thing is a setup, but decides to use it to get to the truth: By letting the ring think they got to him and that he has it out for Sarah, he may be able to earn their trust and actually find the Director.
Possibly Shaw have moved Sarah from "trusted friend" to "expendable" for the achievement of his goals, but I really don't think he's going to kill her for revenge.
Well, obviously he's not going to. Seeing as how this was the planned finale and knowing how they did last year's finale:
The first... 10 minutes or so will be Chuck (and Casey? Please let there be Casey!) tracking down Shaw. Hell, that might just be hand waved away and we start at: they apprehend him and either realize he's not actually a baddie/beat some sense into him (catharsis for the fans!). A brief interlude sees Casey re-instated for helping save the day, and then we get to whatever the real plot is.
Which is related, but only vaguely.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
-snip- I recall him having to concentrate pretty hard to flash in the S2 finale for it to work.
For the door code in 1.0 or at the end with 2.0? His first flash with 2.0 was as easy as pie (Sarah in danger=>flash).
And speaking of Sarah, of course Shaw isn't going to kill her. Beyond the obvious reasons there's the detail of she isn't already dead. Why drive her somewhere special just to kill her? Gun her down after kicking her door down.
Chuck won't kill Shaw. Because he's not wired that way. And because so far Shaw hasn't done anything to deserve it, but I suppose that part can change.
And speaking of Sarah, of course Shaw isn't going to kill her. Beyond the obvious reasons there's the detail of she isn't already dead. Why drive her somewhere special just to kill her? Gun her down after kicking her door down.
Because it's more poetic to drag her to the place where she killed Mrs. Shaw, that way she knows why she's getting [strike]killed[/strike] conveniently rescued by deus ex machina.
Given the new Intersect abilities, I do wish they had done more with it than Kung Fu. They started the season down this path, but then abandoned it. I think the last time he flashed on anything other than fighting skills was extracting the bullet from Casey's leg?
He did do like, judo? or some other very grapply style in the sauna.
And speaking of Sarah, of course Shaw isn't going to kill her. Beyond the obvious reasons there's the detail of she isn't already dead. Why drive her somewhere special just to kill her? Gun her down after kicking her door down.
Because it's more poetic to drag her to the place where she killed Mrs. Shaw, that way she knows why she's getting [strike]killed[/strike] conveniently rescued by deus ex machina.
That's like way out there. Even assuming the place was near by. I suppose that's a common problem with fiction (just KILL THEM, don't gloat, warn, duel, torture, etc), but I don't see it. It has to be connected to the phone call he got and not just "You killed my wife, I will now drive you out to Vegas to kill you.". If that IS his reasoning, well, he could just tell her why he's killing her.
And speaking of Sarah, of course Shaw isn't going to kill her. Beyond the obvious reasons there's the detail of she isn't already dead. Why drive her somewhere special just to kill her? Gun her down after kicking her door down.
Because it's more poetic to drag her to the place where she killed Mrs. Shaw, that way she knows why she's getting [strike]killed[/strike] conveniently rescued by deus ex machina.
That's like way out there. Even assuming the place was near by. I suppose that's a common problem with fiction (just KILL THEM, don't gloat, warn, duel, torture, etc), but I don't see it. It has to be connected to the phone call he got and not just "You killed my wife, I will now drive you out to Vegas to kill you.". If that IS his reasoning, well, he could just tell her why he's killing her.
Didn't sarah say her red test was in europe, just a street name and a picture or something? I didn't even know it was in the us.
If the writers really wanted us to be in suspense, they would have made us question whether or not Shaw actually saw the video. Also, they wouldn't have had Sarah foreshadow the backstory last week. Then we would be asking whether or not Shaw actually saw the video, rather than whether or not Shaw is going to kill Sarah (obviously not).
Heck, even the promos for next week don't seem to be playing too much on the "Is shaw going to kill sarah?" angle.
I'm more interested in the "why in God's name did they order someone to kill the wife of one of their agents and then lie to him."
I mean, if they thought she was a Ring agent, shouldn't they have told him afterward? Unless they were operating under the assumption that covering up her death and throwing the blame on someone else would make him a better agent, which is:
1) A terrible, terrible idea. It always comes back to bite someone in the ass, and
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Also was only in three of the last four Fulcrum plots. Though The Ring generally is lame thus far. Fulcrum had a clear purpose, even if it was until very late in the game nebulous why it was so important for them.
Whereas Sheppard had only Routh to work with, The Ring is illdefined and like I said no screentime.
It would be nice to learn what the hell The Ring wants. I mean we never really learn what Fulcrum wanted either, but CIA spies gone bad was enough to keep thing interesting. The Ring? Different name, Same Shit or something new.
The Ring... really hates Shaw? Because he really hates them?
I realize that Sheppard had no screen time, but even in that brief period you can kind of tell what direction they're going in with him: generic evil-doer. Rourke's first moments on screen and big and loud and full of energy and you can tell this guy isn't just going to be some guy in a dark suit who makes evil sounds with his voice. Unfortunately, I didn't really get that from Sheppard last night. Hopefully, I'm wrong.
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
PSN/Steam/NNID: SyphonBlue | BNet: SyphonBlue#1126
Except she didn't know who the target was, and it's not like Shaw was watching the visual representation of her red test like we were. How would he have made the connection?
I still liked Brandon Routh, there was not much wrong with how he acted.
Also I for a second I saw the name Mark Sheppard and thought "Holy Shit MORN IS RUNNING THE RING" Then, I realized that I was thinking Mark Allen Shepherd.
As much as I love the show as it is now, part of me almost wants them to make it Chuck in Rome. Just to have a show that's willing to make such a change would make me happy. Keep Sarah and Casey with him and develop new characters. I know that won't happen, but I kind of wish it would.
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We need time time to enjoy being Shaw-less. Lots of time preferably.
I forgot the #1 rule of chuck.
The obvious always happens.
On the Chuck/Sarah I would LOVE to see them as a real couple working together. They have enough chemistry to pull it off and it would be fun. It would have to be set in Burbank of course, as it is ground zero for terrorists in America.
Also I'd like Chuck's first real kill to be Shaw in the season finale, where Chuck realizes that sometimes it's necessary and ok to kill as a spy. Perhaps next episode Shaw is mildly hurt but gets away, only to come back and wreak havoc in the last few episodes after becoming buddies with The Ring. And then Chuck blows him up with a bazooka or something.
On another note, I personally like Intersect 2.0. But a different route that they could have went with was to give him the wrist computer. Chuck would have something to add to more situations without giving him a complete deus ex machina. On the other hand, Scott Bakula also showed Chuck that he can force himself to flash on things that aren't in the database, but I don't remember if they've gone anywhere with that. Perhaps in the last episode when he flashed on the vending machine, but nothing else particularly comes to mind. I recall him having to concentrate pretty hard to flash in the S2 finale for it to work.
I also would have liked Chuck to have the wrist computer, but that doesn't mean he can't still get it. Scottie's coming back, right? Maybe he's been away all this time building a second wrist compy so they can be computer buddies.
And yes, Bakula shall return! Possibly as crazypants Papa Bartowski.
1. Shaw wants to know who gave her the target for her Red Test, in order to find out who gave the order for his wife to die. He doesn't care about Sarah as she was just an unwitting pawn.
2. Shaw realizes the whole thing is a setup, but decides to use it to get to the truth: By letting the ring think they got to him and that he has it out for Sarah, he may be able to earn their trust and actually find the Director.
Possibly Shaw have moved Sarah from "trusted friend" to "expendable" for the achievement of his goals, but I really don't think he's going to kill her for revenge.
The first... 10 minutes or so will be Chuck (and Casey? Please let there be Casey!) tracking down Shaw. Hell, that might just be hand waved away and we start at: they apprehend him and either realize he's not actually a baddie/beat some sense into him (catharsis for the fans!). A brief interlude sees Casey re-instated for helping save the day, and then we get to whatever the real plot is.
Which is related, but only vaguely.
For the door code in 1.0 or at the end with 2.0? His first flash with 2.0 was as easy as pie (Sarah in danger=>flash).
And speaking of Sarah, of course Shaw isn't going to kill her. Beyond the obvious reasons there's the detail of she isn't already dead. Why drive her somewhere special just to kill her? Gun her down after kicking her door down.
Chuck won't kill Shaw. Because he's not wired that way. And because so far Shaw hasn't done anything to deserve it, but I suppose that part can change.
He did do like, judo? or some other very grapply style in the sauna.
That's like way out there. Even assuming the place was near by. I suppose that's a common problem with fiction (just KILL THEM, don't gloat, warn, duel, torture, etc), but I don't see it. It has to be connected to the phone call he got and not just "You killed my wife, I will now drive you out to Vegas to kill you.". If that IS his reasoning, well, he could just tell her why he's killing her.
Didn't sarah say her red test was in europe, just a street name and a picture or something? I didn't even know it was in the us.
Heck, even the promos for next week don't seem to be playing too much on the "Is shaw going to kill sarah?" angle.
I mean, if they thought she was a Ring agent, shouldn't they have told him afterward? Unless they were operating under the assumption that covering up her death and throwing the blame on someone else would make him a better agent, which is:
1) A terrible, terrible idea. It always comes back to bite someone in the ass, and
2) really cartoonishly evil.
PSN: ShogunGunshow
Origin: ShogunGunshow
I think the idea here is that not all branches of the CIA are informed about the operations of others.