It does work, because otherwise you wouldn't have been raging so hard earlier in this thread about how people were bigots for judging others on what I mentioned.
You're pretty much arguing against how society works, and if you want to pretend that society doesn't frown upon grown men wearing kitty ears and spending a majority of their time around people half their age playing video games, well hey more power to you I guess.
But I know that's not how things work, and I believe you do too, you just don't want to walk away from this thing without feeling like you've "won". So you know what? Go ahead and chalk this one up under the big "W" column for you if it means that much to you.
I don't see any logic, reason, or evidence in the above. All I see is the same old shtick of "this is how society works, so me being a judgmental asshole is justified."
My argument has always been "no, being a judgmental asshole isn't justified just because society seems to say it's okay," so countering that with "this is reality" doesn't actually counter anything I said. It is the electronic equivalent of trying to jerk off in my face, which I don't really appreciate.
And I don't even know what your first sentence means. I "rage hard" against bigotry and bullying because it they are disgusting behaviors that are actually ruining society, quite unlike wearing cat ears which has zero effect on society except it gives bullies and bigots something to feel superior about, which is the fault of the bullies and bigots and not the people wearing cat ears.
You know what? Go find me a study on how many people who wear "The South Will Rise Again" t shirts are really just edgy historical buffs.
No wait, I'll save you time. There isn't one. For those of us who haven't obliterated our common sense and perception in the name of "equality" like you seem to have done, we realise this person probably has some reactionary ideas about government and race.
That doesn't mean I need a peer reviewed study and wikipedia links to know this.
And for the record, there's nothing assholish about judging someone for wearing a tuxedo t shirt to a funeral or frowning on any other attention whoring behavior out there.
Again, there's society, and then there's you. Sorry, but that's the way it is. When you can wrap your head around that, you'll be better off.
It does work, because otherwise you wouldn't have been raging so hard earlier in this thread about how people were bigots for judging others on what I mentioned.
You're pretty much arguing against how society works, and if you want to pretend that society doesn't frown upon grown men wearing kitty ears and spending a majority of their time around people half their age playing video games, well hey more power to you I guess.
But I know that's not how things work, and I believe you do too, you just don't want to walk away from this thing without feeling like you've "won". So you know what? Go ahead and chalk this one up under the big "W" column for you if it means that much to you.
I don't see any logic, reason, or evidence in the above. All I see is the same old shtick of "this is how society works, so me being a judgmental asshole is justified."
My argument has always been "no, being a judgmental asshole isn't justified just because society seems to say it's okay," so countering that with "this is reality" doesn't actually counter anything I said. It is the electronic equivalent of trying to jerk off in my face, which I don't really appreciate.
And I don't even know what your first sentence means. I "rage hard" against bigotry and bullying because it they are disgusting behaviors that are actually ruining society, quite unlike wearing cat ears which has zero effect on society except it gives bullies and bigots something to feel superior about, which is the fault of the bullies and bigots and not the people wearing cat ears.
You know what? Go find me a study on how many people who wear "The South Will Rise Again" t shirts are really just edgy historical buffs.
No wait, I'll save you time. There isn't one. For those of us who haven't obliterated our common sense and perception in the name of "equality" like you seem to have done, we realise this person probably has some reactionary ideas about government and race.
That doesn't mean I need a peer reviewed study and wikipedia links to know this.
And for the record, there's nothing assholish about judging someone for wearing a tuxedo t shirt to a funeral or frowning on any other attention whoring behavior out there.
Again, there's society, and then there's you. Sorry, but that's the way it is. When you can wrap your head around that, you'll be better off.
Again, I'm not seeing any logic, reason, or evidence from you.
I see a lot of continued attempts to reframe the argument. I see a lot of circular justifications. I see a lot of attempts to throw things I never asserted back in my face (hey, who cried strawman on the last page again?).
But I don't see any logic, reason, or evidence.
If you want to defend your opinion, you need all of those. I'll settle for even a half-assed attempt at one. "B-b-but you can't find a study on this other shirt!" isn't an attempt at countering anything, it is just floundering nonsense. I know it, you know it, and every other person who even bothers to read your posts knows it.
"Common sense!" is the childish fantasy people like you cling to, that there is some inherent objective correctness to arbitrary crap, when there isn't. There is no "common sense" here. There is just you trying to validate your dickery.
Finally, "sorry, but that's the way it is" doesn't even respond to my argument which is and has been "'sorry, but that's the way it is' isn't a valid opinion and here's why..." So I guess you are conceding that your entire mental process is invalid? If you can't defend it with logic, reason, and/or evidence, as you seem completely incapable of doing, the only obvious conclusion is that your opinion is completely invalid.
Drez, go ahead and wear those cat ears then if it means that much to you. I'll be waiting in H/A for your "Why can't I get hired" post.
Another post without logic, reason, or evidence? Another post which is just a puerile (that means "childish," by the way) attempt at lashing out at me because you don't have a valid mindset? I'm shocked!
I mean I'm not trying to trick you here, legion. I'm not trying to win the argument. I'm not trying to show you up. I'm not trying to play games.
I would really and truly like to comprehend why you (or anyone else) believe that people wearing cat ears on the bus or a Naruto headband is suggestive of a "train wreck" lifestyle. You keep saying stuff like it is "obvious" and whatnot, but it is not obvious. It is not "common sense." To make such a claim you actually need evidence or some kind of well-reasoned analysis.
You are making a positive claim. You are claiming that people who wear Naruto headbands tend to lead train wreck lives.
I would like to know the basis of this claim. You don't seem to have one.
The reason my tone is currently arrogant and dismissive is because you keep trying to repel this without answering the question. It is annoying. I don't want to keep entertaining your rhetoric. At this point I think I am entitled to an answer as to the basis of your claim if you are going to continue asserting the same thing.
I am willing to listen, if you can actually provide an argument as to why you think it should be "common sense" that people wearing Naruto headbands in public lead "train wreck" lives, but your failure or unwillingness to provide said argument leads me to believe you are just full of shit.
I think I'll throw in a little unrelated-to-the-back-and-forth-here anecdote about myself.
I feel pretty much like a man-child. I just turned 28, still live with the 'rents, have been unemployed for a couple of years, and don't really get out much. My hobbies mostly circle around computer gaming.
I've been trying for years and years -- my whole life, really -- to deal with who I am and actually "become an adult", as it appears to be described in general society. Local friends, "getting out", doing stuff, becoming employable, hopefully advancing in life eventually. So far... I've failed. I've had a few jobs in my lifetime, but most of them were populated heavily by college-age people (working as a receptionist in a doctor's office, game testing for Sony, then cell phone application testing for Qualcomm), and after getting laid off because all the jobs were moving to India for that last one, I ran out of gas on finding employment.
It's difficult to read this thread because I just get depressed and morose about where I am and how little I've gotten done. I have a bachelor's degree in psychology from UCSD I'll never use except as a flag to wave that I completed college. I'm currently in the process of getting my A+, Network+ and Cisco CCNA certifications so hopefully I can get a job that isn't garbage, or a job at all, but that's about the sum total of my 'moving forward'.
I suffer from a number of conditions which make some things harder. First and foremost, double depression (the combination of dysthymia and major depression) has dominated my life since my memory began; when I was around five my parents say I would walk around the house sometimes repeating to myself that I was a bad, bad kid. Basically, I don't feel happiness or contentment like people are supposed to (at least, that's what I'm lead to believe); things which should provide satisfaction or contentment, like searching for a job, working, and improving my skills, do not in the slightest -- I am controlled heavily by negative feelings, not positive. My current efforts to improve my life are driven primarily by the horrible feeling that I am, as this thread describes, a man-child. As one might expect, this isn't the most energizing force in the world, and my progression continues to languish. A less important but still relevant fact is I have generalized hyperhidrosis, which makes a number of jobs especially difficult or outright impossible to acquire -- the one job I had in food service at Subway, I eventually agreed that I was unsuitable to work there because nobody wants to see a sweaty guy making their sandwich. While it seems kind of silly, and I wouldn't say I'm stanky or anything -- I bathe every day and try to keep a handle on it -- it does make for more difficulty in grabbing a basic job in the meantime.
I guess I'm just trying to paint a picture for you of a guy who probably fits the "man-child" description you have put forth, while also providing some ancillary details that give you more depth to the somewhat stereotyped depiction, some reasons for it. I'm trying to get out of where I am -- I go to a therapist for my depression, I'm re-educating myself in a field that is in demand right now, I'm trying to find some local friends to at least do some stuff in person -- but I still fit the 30-year-old virgin living in the basement archetype to a painful degree. While I've skipped a good fifteen pages of this thread because I was just sinking into depression reading all the stuff about it, I figured maybe it would spark some more interest to give a more detailed look at someone of whom the thread probably speaks.
I don't know if I'll ever get out of my rut, or if I'll end up a failure like so many other "man-children". Oftentimes I feel it's the latter, and I only hope to help my parents take care of the place and, well, provide them some social family happiness, if that's all I can manage. Perhaps I am a drain on society -- I've certainly thought as much to myself in my less pleasant moments. But in the end, I guess I just do what I can get myself to do, since self-flagellation only seems to slow me even worse, and maybe in the end I'll make back some of what I've taken. I don't know exactly what one needs to do to achieve 'parity' with society as far as my obligation to give back, but I'm going to keep trying, however ineffectually it turns out to be.
Try not to feel too bad about yourself. It sounds like your biggest problem is just not having a job, and that's a pretty common story these days.
Not to speak for Dkarrde, but depression is much more insidious than that. I myself have a terrible warehouse job, but thanks to depression, I have no real ambition to find something better. The only thing that drives me forward is the fear of being a failure. Let me tell you, from a motivational standpoint, there is a world of difference between wanting to be an Doctor/Lawyer/IT Specialist and not wanting to be a box humper.
DKarrde, having a mental illness such as depression doesn't make you a man child. Yes, you may be developmentally delayed because of how depression may have effected your life. However It's not a completely conscious lifestyle choice you've made.
I think the (somewhat shapeless) definition that people have proposed in this thread involves someone who is more aware of the bad choices or decisions but doesn't really care to the point where it effects their functioning socially or otherwise. To me, that at least seems like bordering mental illness or personality disorder anyways. It would seem ridiculous and selfish to deride someone with a mental illness for having a difficult time integrating with society. There probably are just some people who are assholes and want to go against societal structures just because..whatever reason. I don't know. Until these savages overthrow the average docile dorky looking nerds, then there's really no reason to really care.
I thought we figured out ten pages ago that being repulsed by a grown man wearing cat ears in public was a prejudice. The high ick factor inspires like-mindedness in a society, making us more unified and giving us guidelines on how to properly live.
This is horrible, terrible logic.
There seems to be a lot of this going around this week in other threads. People calling my thinking horribad but they don't explain why.
Except most of the 30 somethings in Naruto headbands fit that mold
I get that you're baiting draz, but "well I think so it's true because I say so" and pinging pulledoutofmyass.com are not evidence that something is, objectively, true.
DKarrde, having a mental illness such as depression doesn't make you a man child. Yes, you may be developmentally delayed because of how depression may have effected your life. However It's not a completely conscious lifestyle choice you've made.
Agreed. There is a world of difference genuine mental problems and simply refusing to assume personal responsibility because other people are enabling that sort of behavior.
It's the difference between being out of shape because you're lazy and being out of shape because you have to use a cane or crutches to walk.
Agreed. There is a world of difference genuine mental problems and simply refusing to assume personal responsibility because other people are enabling that sort of behavior.
It's the difference between being out of shape because you're lazy and being out of shape because you have to use a cane or crutches to walk.
Except that, as outsiders, we never really know if there's a metaphorical crutch or not. Which is why it's better not to judge people.
ITT: some people are chicken shits about openly acknowledging their hobbies.
ITT: some people are judgemental assholes who show why the other people act that way.
So, legionofone, why don't you hide your conservativeness on the PA forums? Is it because you're too dumb to know better? Too immature? Too oblivious to the world around you? Don't like fitting in with society? Need a cruch to make you feel superior, or at least less inferior?
OMG, what, you think that it's ok to act like a conservative even if other people don't agree with you? What a fucking man-child.
Agreed. There is a world of difference genuine mental problems and simply refusing to assume personal responsibility because other people are enabling that sort of behavior.
It's the difference between being out of shape because you're lazy and being out of shape because you have to use a cane or crutches to walk.
Except that, as outsiders, we never really know if there's a metaphorical crutch or not. Which is why it's better not to judge people.
How much can you actually "judge" someone if you aren't in some sort of situation where you'd be able to figure out what is really going on or not?
This is a serious question. This whole argument for like 20-30 pages has been going based on some sort of weird hypothetical situation "on the bus". Now, what I want to know is, no matter what some person is thinking on this proverbial bus, how is our cat-ear-superman-cape-whatever wearing person going to be affected by it, or even know it?
Nobody has ever advocated assaulting this person, or walking up to them and castigating them for their clothing choices, or bullying them out of their seat, or refusing to sit next to them, or any other sort of confrontational behavior. Nobody has advocated instituting some sort of Nerd Police that patrols the streets to make sure nobody's wearing something unusual enough to transgress an imaginary boundary of conformity.
If you dress in a highly unusual way, and because you're already acting (by choosing to dress in a certain way) a little bit unusual, people are probably going to think that you, yourself, are a little bit unusual.
And if the worst that ever comes of this is an occasional eyeroll or elbow nudge by random, judgemental strangers "on the bus", I'd say you've gotten off pretty lightly. No matter who you are or what you're like, somebody out there probably has an irrational prejudice against you and you're going to run into that occasionally.
If we're talking about more serious sorts of transgressions - like people not wanting to be your friend, or whatever, because they think you're too nerdy - then that's a little bit different. Then the question becomes whether or not you want to be friends with somebody who judges you for something you enjoy doing, and whether or not having those sorts of friends is more important to you than whatever behavior it is that is making them not want to be your friend. Hopefully you can find like-minded people to be friends with, but sometimes for various reasons that's simply not possible, and I would argue it's better to conform a little bit to fit in and have friends, than to refuse to do so and be alone. Most people really aren't that bad once you get to know them, even when they're interests are radically different than yours.
I've only known and met one dude who I'd describe as a serious "gamer", and even that dude had a lot of interests and experiences outside the gaming world. I can tell you from experience that most of the others have been pretty good people.
This is not to say, of course, that you should give in to peer pressure on everything if it conflicts with your moral beliefs, but on stuff like what t-shirt to wear I don't think it's a huge deal if that's the only option you have. It's a hard enough world to live in even when you have friends, and when things go wrong that cape or whatever is probably not going to be a great deal of comfort to you. Hobbies maybe, especially if they involve other people, but certainly not a t-shirt.
Is it a grand and wonderful thing to sit around judging people you don't know? Of course not. I personally try not to judge people for various reasons, not least of them being it leads to arrogance and there's frankly better things you can do with your time than sitting around feeling superior to other people, especially when we've all got our own problems and issues if we were honest about it.
But not everybody is going to be like that - I myself am not like that all the time, although I try to be - and since we all have to live in the real world as opposed to an ideal one, I don't think it's entirely out of line to ask people how much wearing this hypothetical clothing choice (or whatever) is really worth when they put it on.
I also have a hard time believing that people are that judgemental of somebody because they're wearing something like a shirt with a picture of Mario on it, or whatever. Maybe people act like that in high school, but everyone acts like an idiot in high school.
And if we're talking about something more noticeable, like a full-blown anime character costume, what do you expect people to do? Most of the population don't watch anime and they almost certainly have no idea what kind of reference you're making with that, so all they see is an adult dressed up like a ninja/superhero/whatever on a day that doesn't seem to be Halloween. Of course they're going to think you're a little crazy (at least, if they don't assume you're on your way to some sort of costume party).
But see, Duffel, there's nothing inherently condescending about noticing something and saying "that's unusual." The problem I'm talking about is saying "hmm, that guy wearing cat ears...that's unusual" and then assuming:
a) The person has a "train wreck" of a life.
b) The person is a man-child basement dwelling shut in.
c) The person has poor hygiene.
d) The person is a sociopath.
e) And so on.
That's wrong. And maybe a little condescension isn't something terrible to have to deal with, but the question here isn't a matter of severity but right and wrong. Just because all you have to deal with is a bit of derision doesn't mean we can't analyze the situation and say that any amount of derision is wrong. In this case, I believe it is.
Agreed. There is a world of difference genuine mental problems and simply refusing to assume personal responsibility because other people are enabling that sort of behavior.
It's the difference between being out of shape because you're lazy and being out of shape because you have to use a cane or crutches to walk.
Except that, as outsiders, we never really know if there's a metaphorical crutch or not. Which is why it's better not to judge people.
How much can you actually "judge" someone if you aren't in some sort of situation where you'd be able to figure out what is really going on or not?
I'm saying that human nature is that everyone *believes* they are in a perfectly good position to judge.
And the reality is: most of the time, they're not.
I thought we figured out ten pages ago that being repulsed by a grown man wearing cat ears in public was a prejudice. The high ick factor inspires like-mindedness in a society, making us more unified and giving us guidelines on how to properly live.
This is horrible, terrible logic.
There seems to be a lot of this going around this week in other threads. People calling my thinking horribad but they don't explain why.
Society's prejudices can just as easily be terribly wrong. That high ick factor applies just as readily to completely harmless, or even beneficial things.
I'm saying that human nature is that everyone *believes* they are in a perfectly good position to judge.
And the reality is: most of the time, they're not.
I said as much in my (admittedly logorrheaic) post. I'm just questioning how much effect this actually has on the person being "judged".
I think it's important to remember that clothing acts as a label. When a stranger sees you and you're wearing a shirt with an anime character on it, all they know about you (other than race, etc) is that you're into anime. That may not represent your whole identity; at least, in all likelihood it doesn't, and if it does and your whole identity really is anime, then I would argue that you do have a problem, because it's not healthy to be so focused on a single thing.
I personally like to play video games, and have liked them ever since I was a little kid. It's one of my most enduring hobbies.
I also love history, archaeology, religion, reading (both good literature and old pulps), swimming, boating, watching basketball, being outside, walking in the woods, being with my family, being with my friends, travelling, meeting new people, watching movies, hanging out in the country, listening to all different kinds of music, and probably lots of other stuff I can't even think of. I don't do any of that stuff because I think it makes me cool or I want to fit in (being into history is probably also kind of nerdy), but because a) every bit of it is fun and rewarding and b) life's too short to dedicate all your time to one particular thing.
This, I think, is the tragedy of the "manchild" stereotype. By focusing too narrowly on a single pursuit (like gaming), they miss out on a lot of what life has to offer. Also, people usually don't want to be around someone with such a narrow range of interests. This isn't just true of video games, but pretty much anything. I can almost guarantee you that the dude who is obsessed with his political party and never goes outside without a shirt with an elephant/donkey on it and talks about nothing else, or the sleazy nightclub fixture in the Euro-douchebag clothes who talks about nothing else besides his various (alleged) sexual exploits, or whoever, are no less unpopular than the dude in the anime clothes. Maybe even more so.
And, I will finally add that if you're a person who genuinely does have a wide variety of interests and a lot to talk about, I think most people are probably going to learn to look past the Mario shirt eventually (assuming, of course, that you're also friendly and nice to them in return). At least the people you'd actually want to be around would.
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AriviaI Like A ChallengeEarth-1Registered Userregular
edited September 2010
Oh, hey, I finally got Duffel's avatar. I thought it was a particularly malformed dog wearing a suit all this time.
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
edited September 2010
well
the implication of obsessiveness is part of it
and yeah the guys who are really obsessed with something culturally-appropriate and age-appropriate (sports, clubbing, etc) to the degree that they've formed identities around it are weirdos too
but anime isn't really considered culturally-appropriate and age-appropriate for grown-ups in the mainstream US.
and video games, to a lesser extent, are kind of the same.
so yeah man-children are culturally guilty of the three-headed sins of:
1) "being into something something kind of strange"
2) "that is generally considered kid stuff"
3) "and being really into it to an unhealthy degree"
there are of course degrees of this, and certainly many people manage to be into their hobbies without having train-wreck lives
but this stuff is culturally unusual for adults in the us
now, i understand that many of you object to anyone judging anyone for anything that is not first-degree harmful to the world. i don't know that all of you would extend reserving this judgment to subcultures that you dislike or find distasteful (bros and hipsters and jocks and emo kids and republicans and debs and club kids all seem to earn a lot of scorn 'round these parts), but you could probably concoct some qualifier for why it's okay that those people be looked down upon as opposed to the tubby grown-up with the naruto headband.
i don't apologise for drawing inferences about people based on the way they present themselves. i reserve the right to be wrong, and i don't imagine that one's public persona completely defines a person - i have plenty of friends who are ridiculous stereotypes in a lot of ways.
but the idea the ignoring ones initial impressions or the socially contextual clues or the way people present themselves in forming an initial impression is not a virtue - it's just defensive foolishness.
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
I get that you're baiting draz, but "well I think so it's true because I say so" and pinging pulledoutofmyass.com are not evidence that something is, objectively, true.
If you want to go through life with blinders on, be my guest. Like I said, just like I don't need a peer reviewed, double blind study to know someone wearing a Totenkopf t shirt with a swaztika probably isn't simply a Hindi skeleton fan, that dude in his Goku silk screen shirt tucked into his sweatpants probably isn't an eccentric genius.
I know that's how a lot of people on PA probably see themselves so I imagine that this is part of why this stance is causing some sort of consternation among people who are taking this pretty presonally.
When you quit making little snipes about how oppressed conservatives are on D+D, I'll quit pointing and laughing at you about it.
Ah, so you are upset. Just wanted to confirm that.
So, legionofone, why don't you hide your conservativeness on the PA forums? Is it because you're too dumb to know better? Too immature? Too oblivious to the world around you? Don't like fitting in with society? Need a cruch to make you feel superior, or at least less inferior?
OMG, what, you think that it's ok to act like a conservative even if other people don't agree with you? What a fucking man-child.
What the hell are you even talking about here? I see I've really kicked the hornet's nest for coming out against acting like a dork in public.
A lifetime of swirlies will break a man, I was told, and here is the evidence.
And if you think that not declaring my love of animu or WH40K or what have you is chickenshit, well its good to see an actual admitted man child in this thread, ego.
Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
edited September 2010
also, i just wanted to mention that dkarrde's post was kind of touching to me and i feel pretty sympathetic to him
i guess i don't really think about him as a "failure as a human being" or anything so much as a dude who is having difficulties in life and trying to work through them, same as anyone else. to his credit, he seems to be aware that he's not where he wants to be and trying to work through it.
(maybe trying to find discrete diagnoses to describe/ justify the difficulties is kind of self-defeating, but i am just kind of spitballking; it just seems that i have met people who have created a personal expectation of failure by coming up with enough medical/ psychological justifications for failure)
i suppose i don't really see it as being in same class as the stuff i'm criticising.
anyways, good luck to you dkarrde. if you feel the compulsion to wear a naruto costume to the mall at some point i would recommend against it
I still maintain that being a manchild has just about exactly 9/10ths of fuck-all to do with one's hobbies, and I am bewildered that you lot got 40 pages out of that.
But you know carry on or whatever i guess
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Irond WillWARNING: NO HURTFUL COMMENTS, PLEASE!!!!!Cambridge. MAModeratormod
I still maintain that being a manchild has just about exactly 9/10ths of fuck-all to do with one's hobbies, and I am bewildered that you lot got 40 pages out of that.
But you know carry on or whatever i guess
well yeah i think that your issues - a culture of delayed adolescence, sloughing responsibility, forestalling adult benchmarks, etc - are something to consider.
but they're not really the particular things i'm bitching about, which kind of boil down to a culture of defiant individualism surrounding child-like hobbies
I still maintain that being a manchild has just about exactly 9/10ths of fuck-all to do with one's hobbies, and I am bewildered that you lot got 40 pages out of that.
But you know carry on or whatever i guess
Well I really don't know how it got that way either but someone insulted the honor of WH40K or anime and it never got out of that rut as people suddenly came out against "judgementalism".
Its the obsessive component combined with the total lack of empathy/judgement skills in life. I mentioned pick up artists and jersey shore bros as falling into this category as well, but people are focused on standing on their soapboxes against thinking that a tuxedo t shirt to a funeral shows a lack of class.
I still maintain that being a manchild has just about exactly 9/10ths of fuck-all to do with one's hobbies, and I am bewildered that you lot got 40 pages out of that.
But you know carry on or whatever i guess
Well, to be fair, we haven't actually been talking about the actual "manchild" socioeconomic phenomenon for about 25 pages; it got derailed over the question of the acceptability of wearing cat ears, especially the acceptability of wearing said apparel on the bus.
I still maintain that being a manchild has just about exactly 9/10ths of fuck-all to do with one's hobbies, and I am bewildered that you lot got 40 pages out of that.
But you know carry on or whatever i guess
Well I really don't know how it got that way either but someone insulted the honor of WH40K or anime and it never got out of that rut as people suddenly came out against "judgementalism".
Its the obsessive component combined with the total lack of empathy/judgement skills in life. I mentioned pick up artists and jersey shore bros as falling into this category as well, but people are focused on standing on their soapboxes against thinking that a tuxedo t shirt to a funeral shows a lack of class.
where anyone actually said something like that? I mean, you've accused people of it every couple of pages based on the fact that they disagree with you, but so far I've not seen someone actually defend something along the lines of a "tux shirt at a funeral"
I still maintain that being a manchild has just about exactly 9/10ths of fuck-all to do with one's hobbies, and I am bewildered that you lot got 40 pages out of that.
But you know carry on or whatever i guess
Well I really don't know how it got that way either but someone insulted the honor of WH40K or anime and it never got out of that rut as people suddenly came out against "judgementalism".
Its the obsessive component combined with the total lack of empathy/judgement skills in life. I mentioned pick up artists and jersey shore bros as falling into this category as well, but people are focused on standing on their soapboxes against thinking that a tuxedo t shirt to a funeral shows a lack of class.
where anyone actually said something like that? I mean, you've accused people of it every couple of pages based on the fact that they disagree with you, but so far I've not seen someone actually defend something along the lines of a "tux shirt at a funeral"
No, it gets ignored so people can keep on strawmanning about me being against wearing a pac man shirt to the mall and demanding studies to show that Mr. 35 y/o in sweatpants playing Pokemans in the Food Court 8 hours a day is kind of a loser as opposed to the awesome dude he MIGHT be.
I still maintain that being a manchild has just about exactly 9/10ths of fuck-all to do with one's hobbies, and I am bewildered that you lot got 40 pages out of that.
But you know carry on or whatever i guess
Well I really don't know how it got that way either but someone insulted the honor of WH40K or anime and it never got out of that rut as people suddenly came out against "judgementalism".
Its the obsessive component combined with the total lack of empathy/judgement skills in life. I mentioned pick up artists and jersey shore bros as falling into this category as well, but people are focused on standing on their soapboxes against thinking that a tuxedo t shirt to a funeral shows a lack of class.
where anyone actually said something like that? I mean, you've accused people of it every couple of pages based on the fact that they disagree with you, but so far I've not seen someone actually defend something along the lines of a "tux shirt at a funeral"
No, it gets ignored so people can keep on strawmanning about me being against wearing a pac man shirt to the mall and demanding studies to show that Mr. Pokemans in the Food Court 8 hours a day is kind of a loser as opposed to the awesome dude he MIGHT be.
I demanded a study as one possible piece of evidence supporting any of the claims you made.
I'd also except a reasonable or logical argument, but you can't provide that either.
I still maintain that being a manchild has just about exactly 9/10ths of fuck-all to do with one's hobbies, and I am bewildered that you lot got 40 pages out of that.
But you know carry on or whatever i guess
Well I really don't know how it got that way either but someone insulted the honor of WH40K or anime and it never got out of that rut as people suddenly came out against "judgementalism".
Its the obsessive component combined with the total lack of empathy/judgement skills in life. I mentioned pick up artists and jersey shore bros as falling into this category as well, but people are focused on standing on their soapboxes against thinking that a tuxedo t shirt to a funeral shows a lack of class.
where anyone actually said something like that? I mean, you've accused people of it every couple of pages based on the fact that they disagree with you, but so far I've not seen someone actually defend something along the lines of a "tux shirt at a funeral"
No, it gets ignored so people can keep on strawmanning about me being against wearing a pac man shirt to the mall and demanding studies to show that Mr. Pokemans in the Food Court 8 hours a day is kind of a loser as opposed to the awesome dude he MIGHT be.
I demanded a study as one possible piece of evidence supporting any of the claims you made.
I'd also except a reasonable or logical argument, but you can't provide that either.
And I pointed out how your demand of a study was kind of retarded, and indicated a...shall we say naive way of thinking at best, at which point you promptly missed the point and went off on yet another tangent about t shirts.
Like, were you surprised when the homeless dude who lived in a van didn't have free puppies and candy in the back of it?
I still maintain that being a manchild has just about exactly 9/10ths of fuck-all to do with one's hobbies, and I am bewildered that you lot got 40 pages out of that.
But you know carry on or whatever i guess
Well I really don't know how it got that way either but someone insulted the honor of WH40K or anime and it never got out of that rut as people suddenly came out against "judgementalism".
Its the obsessive component combined with the total lack of empathy/judgement skills in life. I mentioned pick up artists and jersey shore bros as falling into this category as well, but people are focused on standing on their soapboxes against thinking that a tuxedo t shirt to a funeral shows a lack of class.
where anyone actually said something like that? I mean, you've accused people of it every couple of pages based on the fact that they disagree with you, but so far I've not seen someone actually defend something along the lines of a "tux shirt at a funeral"
Yeah I mean the reason you don't wear a megadeth t-shirt at a funeral isn't because you're trying to conform, it's because you're trying to respect the family of the recently departed. If it's a choice between asserting my individuality, or paying respect to friends/family, I will choose to respect friends/family. I frankly don't care what people in society think of my Naruto car ear Pac Man fetish though and I don't think anyone else should either.
legionofone bleats a lot about context while completely ignoring the concept himself.
I still maintain that being a manchild has just about exactly 9/10ths of fuck-all to do with one's hobbies, and I am bewildered that you lot got 40 pages out of that.
But you know carry on or whatever i guess
Well I really don't know how it got that way either but someone insulted the honor of WH40K or anime and it never got out of that rut as people suddenly came out against "judgementalism".
Its the obsessive component combined with the total lack of empathy/judgement skills in life. I mentioned pick up artists and jersey shore bros as falling into this category as well, but people are focused on standing on their soapboxes against thinking that a tuxedo t shirt to a funeral shows a lack of class.
where anyone actually said something like that? I mean, you've accused people of it every couple of pages based on the fact that they disagree with you, but so far I've not seen someone actually defend something along the lines of a "tux shirt at a funeral"
No, it gets ignored so people can keep on strawmanning about me being against wearing a pac man shirt to the mall and demanding studies to show that Mr. Pokemans in the Food Court 8 hours a day is kind of a loser as opposed to the awesome dude he MIGHT be.
I demanded a study as one possible piece of evidence supporting any of the claims you made.
I'd also except a reasonable or logical argument, but you can't provide that either.
And I pointed out how your demand of a study was kind of retarded, and indicated a...shall we say naive way of thinking at best, at which point you promptly missed the point and went off on yet another tangent about t shirts.
Like, were you surprised when the homeless dude who lived in a van didn't have free puppies and candy in the back of it?
Psst: I don't really want a study. What I want is for you to explain your thought process, in a logical/reasoning manner. If you aren't able to do that, you don't actually have a valid argument. Do I really need to keep repeating myself? I mean then you blame me for condescending to you and being a hypocrite, but it's not my fault if you are perpetually stupid.
Yeah I mean the reason you don't wear a megadeth t-shirt at a funeral isn't because you're trying to conform, it's because you're trying to respect the family of the recently departed. If it's a choice between asserting my individuality, or paying respect to friends/family, I will choose to respect friends/family. I frankly don't care what people in society think of my Naruto car ear Pac Man fetish though and I don't think anyone else should either.
legionofone bleats a lot about context while completely ignoring the concept himself.
Except you do care, otherwise you wouldn't be riding around on a high horse getting all huffy about people being judgemental to random strangers in public.
And that's part of why you're a man child, Drez. Because you want to do what you want, but don't want consequences for those actions. You want to wear your Naruto headband out to town because you think you're hot shit, go ahead. Just expect to have people going "..Really?" and having a bit of a chuckle. Instead of leaving Neverland, you'd rather go on and on in your safe zone (here) about how society should learn to accomodate your inability to leave childhood behind.
Psst: I don't really want a study. What I want is for you to explain your thought process, in a logical/reasoning manner. If you aren't able to do that, you don't actually have a valid argument. Do I really need to keep repeating myself? I mean then you blame me for condescending to you and being a hypocrite, but it's not my fault if you are perpetually stupid.
Basically you want me to explain basic human interaction and why that person who looks and dresses nice rates more favorably than someone who dresses like a slob.
So are basic social situations a problem for you and your spergin, drez?
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You know what? Go find me a study on how many people who wear "The South Will Rise Again" t shirts are really just edgy historical buffs.
No wait, I'll save you time. There isn't one. For those of us who haven't obliterated our common sense and perception in the name of "equality" like you seem to have done, we realise this person probably has some reactionary ideas about government and race.
That doesn't mean I need a peer reviewed study and wikipedia links to know this.
And for the record, there's nothing assholish about judging someone for wearing a tuxedo t shirt to a funeral or frowning on any other attention whoring behavior out there.
Again, there's society, and then there's you. Sorry, but that's the way it is. When you can wrap your head around that, you'll be better off.
Again, I'm not seeing any logic, reason, or evidence from you.
I see a lot of continued attempts to reframe the argument. I see a lot of circular justifications. I see a lot of attempts to throw things I never asserted back in my face (hey, who cried strawman on the last page again?).
But I don't see any logic, reason, or evidence.
If you want to defend your opinion, you need all of those. I'll settle for even a half-assed attempt at one. "B-b-but you can't find a study on this other shirt!" isn't an attempt at countering anything, it is just floundering nonsense. I know it, you know it, and every other person who even bothers to read your posts knows it.
"Common sense!" is the childish fantasy people like you cling to, that there is some inherent objective correctness to arbitrary crap, when there isn't. There is no "common sense" here. There is just you trying to validate your dickery.
Finally, "sorry, but that's the way it is" doesn't even respond to my argument which is and has been "'sorry, but that's the way it is' isn't a valid opinion and here's why..." So I guess you are conceding that your entire mental process is invalid? If you can't defend it with logic, reason, and/or evidence, as you seem completely incapable of doing, the only obvious conclusion is that your opinion is completely invalid.
Another post without logic, reason, or evidence? Another post which is just a puerile (that means "childish," by the way) attempt at lashing out at me because you don't have a valid mindset? I'm shocked!
I would really and truly like to comprehend why you (or anyone else) believe that people wearing cat ears on the bus or a Naruto headband is suggestive of a "train wreck" lifestyle. You keep saying stuff like it is "obvious" and whatnot, but it is not obvious. It is not "common sense." To make such a claim you actually need evidence or some kind of well-reasoned analysis.
You are making a positive claim. You are claiming that people who wear Naruto headbands tend to lead train wreck lives.
I would like to know the basis of this claim. You don't seem to have one.
The reason my tone is currently arrogant and dismissive is because you keep trying to repel this without answering the question. It is annoying. I don't want to keep entertaining your rhetoric. At this point I think I am entitled to an answer as to the basis of your claim if you are going to continue asserting the same thing.
I am willing to listen, if you can actually provide an argument as to why you think it should be "common sense" that people wearing Naruto headbands in public lead "train wreck" lives, but your failure or unwillingness to provide said argument leads me to believe you are just full of shit.
I feel pretty much like a man-child. I just turned 28, still live with the 'rents, have been unemployed for a couple of years, and don't really get out much. My hobbies mostly circle around computer gaming.
I've been trying for years and years -- my whole life, really -- to deal with who I am and actually "become an adult", as it appears to be described in general society. Local friends, "getting out", doing stuff, becoming employable, hopefully advancing in life eventually. So far... I've failed. I've had a few jobs in my lifetime, but most of them were populated heavily by college-age people (working as a receptionist in a doctor's office, game testing for Sony, then cell phone application testing for Qualcomm), and after getting laid off because all the jobs were moving to India for that last one, I ran out of gas on finding employment.
It's difficult to read this thread because I just get depressed and morose about where I am and how little I've gotten done. I have a bachelor's degree in psychology from UCSD I'll never use except as a flag to wave that I completed college. I'm currently in the process of getting my A+, Network+ and Cisco CCNA certifications so hopefully I can get a job that isn't garbage, or a job at all, but that's about the sum total of my 'moving forward'.
I suffer from a number of conditions which make some things harder. First and foremost, double depression (the combination of dysthymia and major depression) has dominated my life since my memory began; when I was around five my parents say I would walk around the house sometimes repeating to myself that I was a bad, bad kid. Basically, I don't feel happiness or contentment like people are supposed to (at least, that's what I'm lead to believe); things which should provide satisfaction or contentment, like searching for a job, working, and improving my skills, do not in the slightest -- I am controlled heavily by negative feelings, not positive. My current efforts to improve my life are driven primarily by the horrible feeling that I am, as this thread describes, a man-child. As one might expect, this isn't the most energizing force in the world, and my progression continues to languish. A less important but still relevant fact is I have generalized hyperhidrosis, which makes a number of jobs especially difficult or outright impossible to acquire -- the one job I had in food service at Subway, I eventually agreed that I was unsuitable to work there because nobody wants to see a sweaty guy making their sandwich. While it seems kind of silly, and I wouldn't say I'm stanky or anything -- I bathe every day and try to keep a handle on it -- it does make for more difficulty in grabbing a basic job in the meantime.
I guess I'm just trying to paint a picture for you of a guy who probably fits the "man-child" description you have put forth, while also providing some ancillary details that give you more depth to the somewhat stereotyped depiction, some reasons for it. I'm trying to get out of where I am -- I go to a therapist for my depression, I'm re-educating myself in a field that is in demand right now, I'm trying to find some local friends to at least do some stuff in person -- but I still fit the 30-year-old virgin living in the basement archetype to a painful degree. While I've skipped a good fifteen pages of this thread because I was just sinking into depression reading all the stuff about it, I figured maybe it would spark some more interest to give a more detailed look at someone of whom the thread probably speaks.
I don't know if I'll ever get out of my rut, or if I'll end up a failure like so many other "man-children". Oftentimes I feel it's the latter, and I only hope to help my parents take care of the place and, well, provide them some social family happiness, if that's all I can manage. Perhaps I am a drain on society -- I've certainly thought as much to myself in my less pleasant moments. But in the end, I guess I just do what I can get myself to do, since self-flagellation only seems to slow me even worse, and maybe in the end I'll make back some of what I've taken. I don't know exactly what one needs to do to achieve 'parity' with society as far as my obligation to give back, but I'm going to keep trying, however ineffectually it turns out to be.
Not to speak for Dkarrde, but depression is much more insidious than that. I myself have a terrible warehouse job, but thanks to depression, I have no real ambition to find something better. The only thing that drives me forward is the fear of being a failure. Let me tell you, from a motivational standpoint, there is a world of difference between wanting to be an Doctor/Lawyer/IT Specialist and not wanting to be a box humper.
I think the (somewhat shapeless) definition that people have proposed in this thread involves someone who is more aware of the bad choices or decisions but doesn't really care to the point where it effects their functioning socially or otherwise. To me, that at least seems like bordering mental illness or personality disorder anyways. It would seem ridiculous and selfish to deride someone with a mental illness for having a difficult time integrating with society. There probably are just some people who are assholes and want to go against societal structures just because..whatever reason. I don't know. Until these savages overthrow the average docile dorky looking nerds, then there's really no reason to really care.
There seems to be a lot of this going around this week in other threads. People calling my thinking horribad but they don't explain why.
I get that you're baiting draz, but "well I think so it's true because I say so" and pinging pulledoutofmyass.com are not evidence that something is, objectively, true.
When you quit making little snipes about how oppressed conservatives are on D+D, I'll quit pointing and laughing at you about it.
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Agreed. There is a world of difference genuine mental problems and simply refusing to assume personal responsibility because other people are enabling that sort of behavior.
It's the difference between being out of shape because you're lazy and being out of shape because you have to use a cane or crutches to walk.
Except that, as outsiders, we never really know if there's a metaphorical crutch or not. Which is why it's better not to judge people.
ITT: some people are judgemental assholes who show why the other people act that way.
So, legionofone, why don't you hide your conservativeness on the PA forums? Is it because you're too dumb to know better? Too immature? Too oblivious to the world around you? Don't like fitting in with society? Need a cruch to make you feel superior, or at least less inferior?
OMG, what, you think that it's ok to act like a conservative even if other people don't agree with you? What a fucking man-child.
How much can you actually "judge" someone if you aren't in some sort of situation where you'd be able to figure out what is really going on or not?
This is a serious question. This whole argument for like 20-30 pages has been going based on some sort of weird hypothetical situation "on the bus". Now, what I want to know is, no matter what some person is thinking on this proverbial bus, how is our cat-ear-superman-cape-whatever wearing person going to be affected by it, or even know it?
Nobody has ever advocated assaulting this person, or walking up to them and castigating them for their clothing choices, or bullying them out of their seat, or refusing to sit next to them, or any other sort of confrontational behavior. Nobody has advocated instituting some sort of Nerd Police that patrols the streets to make sure nobody's wearing something unusual enough to transgress an imaginary boundary of conformity.
If you dress in a highly unusual way, and because you're already acting (by choosing to dress in a certain way) a little bit unusual, people are probably going to think that you, yourself, are a little bit unusual.
And if the worst that ever comes of this is an occasional eyeroll or elbow nudge by random, judgemental strangers "on the bus", I'd say you've gotten off pretty lightly. No matter who you are or what you're like, somebody out there probably has an irrational prejudice against you and you're going to run into that occasionally.
If we're talking about more serious sorts of transgressions - like people not wanting to be your friend, or whatever, because they think you're too nerdy - then that's a little bit different. Then the question becomes whether or not you want to be friends with somebody who judges you for something you enjoy doing, and whether or not having those sorts of friends is more important to you than whatever behavior it is that is making them not want to be your friend. Hopefully you can find like-minded people to be friends with, but sometimes for various reasons that's simply not possible, and I would argue it's better to conform a little bit to fit in and have friends, than to refuse to do so and be alone. Most people really aren't that bad once you get to know them, even when they're interests are radically different than yours.
I've only known and met one dude who I'd describe as a serious "gamer", and even that dude had a lot of interests and experiences outside the gaming world. I can tell you from experience that most of the others have been pretty good people.
This is not to say, of course, that you should give in to peer pressure on everything if it conflicts with your moral beliefs, but on stuff like what t-shirt to wear I don't think it's a huge deal if that's the only option you have. It's a hard enough world to live in even when you have friends, and when things go wrong that cape or whatever is probably not going to be a great deal of comfort to you. Hobbies maybe, especially if they involve other people, but certainly not a t-shirt.
Is it a grand and wonderful thing to sit around judging people you don't know? Of course not. I personally try not to judge people for various reasons, not least of them being it leads to arrogance and there's frankly better things you can do with your time than sitting around feeling superior to other people, especially when we've all got our own problems and issues if we were honest about it.
But not everybody is going to be like that - I myself am not like that all the time, although I try to be - and since we all have to live in the real world as opposed to an ideal one, I don't think it's entirely out of line to ask people how much wearing this hypothetical clothing choice (or whatever) is really worth when they put it on.
I also have a hard time believing that people are that judgemental of somebody because they're wearing something like a shirt with a picture of Mario on it, or whatever. Maybe people act like that in high school, but everyone acts like an idiot in high school.
And if we're talking about something more noticeable, like a full-blown anime character costume, what do you expect people to do? Most of the population don't watch anime and they almost certainly have no idea what kind of reference you're making with that, so all they see is an adult dressed up like a ninja/superhero/whatever on a day that doesn't seem to be Halloween. Of course they're going to think you're a little crazy (at least, if they don't assume you're on your way to some sort of costume party).
a) The person has a "train wreck" of a life.
b) The person is a man-child basement dwelling shut in.
c) The person has poor hygiene.
d) The person is a sociopath.
e) And so on.
That's wrong. And maybe a little condescension isn't something terrible to have to deal with, but the question here isn't a matter of severity but right and wrong. Just because all you have to deal with is a bit of derision doesn't mean we can't analyze the situation and say that any amount of derision is wrong. In this case, I believe it is.
I'm saying that human nature is that everyone *believes* they are in a perfectly good position to judge.
And the reality is: most of the time, they're not.
Society's prejudices can just as easily be terribly wrong. That high ick factor applies just as readily to completely harmless, or even beneficial things.
I think it's important to remember that clothing acts as a label. When a stranger sees you and you're wearing a shirt with an anime character on it, all they know about you (other than race, etc) is that you're into anime. That may not represent your whole identity; at least, in all likelihood it doesn't, and if it does and your whole identity really is anime, then I would argue that you do have a problem, because it's not healthy to be so focused on a single thing.
I personally like to play video games, and have liked them ever since I was a little kid. It's one of my most enduring hobbies.
I also love history, archaeology, religion, reading (both good literature and old pulps), swimming, boating, watching basketball, being outside, walking in the woods, being with my family, being with my friends, travelling, meeting new people, watching movies, hanging out in the country, listening to all different kinds of music, and probably lots of other stuff I can't even think of. I don't do any of that stuff because I think it makes me cool or I want to fit in (being into history is probably also kind of nerdy), but because a) every bit of it is fun and rewarding and b) life's too short to dedicate all your time to one particular thing.
This, I think, is the tragedy of the "manchild" stereotype. By focusing too narrowly on a single pursuit (like gaming), they miss out on a lot of what life has to offer. Also, people usually don't want to be around someone with such a narrow range of interests. This isn't just true of video games, but pretty much anything. I can almost guarantee you that the dude who is obsessed with his political party and never goes outside without a shirt with an elephant/donkey on it and talks about nothing else, or the sleazy nightclub fixture in the Euro-douchebag clothes who talks about nothing else besides his various (alleged) sexual exploits, or whoever, are no less unpopular than the dude in the anime clothes. Maybe even more so.
And, I will finally add that if you're a person who genuinely does have a wide variety of interests and a lot to talk about, I think most people are probably going to learn to look past the Mario shirt eventually (assuming, of course, that you're also friendly and nice to them in return). At least the people you'd actually want to be around would.
the implication of obsessiveness is part of it
and yeah the guys who are really obsessed with something culturally-appropriate and age-appropriate (sports, clubbing, etc) to the degree that they've formed identities around it are weirdos too
but anime isn't really considered culturally-appropriate and age-appropriate for grown-ups in the mainstream US.
and video games, to a lesser extent, are kind of the same.
so yeah man-children are culturally guilty of the three-headed sins of:
1) "being into something something kind of strange"
2) "that is generally considered kid stuff"
3) "and being really into it to an unhealthy degree"
there are of course degrees of this, and certainly many people manage to be into their hobbies without having train-wreck lives
but this stuff is culturally unusual for adults in the us
now, i understand that many of you object to anyone judging anyone for anything that is not first-degree harmful to the world. i don't know that all of you would extend reserving this judgment to subcultures that you dislike or find distasteful (bros and hipsters and jocks and emo kids and republicans and debs and club kids all seem to earn a lot of scorn 'round these parts), but you could probably concoct some qualifier for why it's okay that those people be looked down upon as opposed to the tubby grown-up with the naruto headband.
i don't apologise for drawing inferences about people based on the way they present themselves. i reserve the right to be wrong, and i don't imagine that one's public persona completely defines a person - i have plenty of friends who are ridiculous stereotypes in a lot of ways.
but the idea the ignoring ones initial impressions or the socially contextual clues or the way people present themselves in forming an initial impression is not a virtue - it's just defensive foolishness.
it's a furry humping a couple of letters
not that i'm judging
If you want to go through life with blinders on, be my guest. Like I said, just like I don't need a peer reviewed, double blind study to know someone wearing a Totenkopf t shirt with a swaztika probably isn't simply a Hindi skeleton fan, that dude in his Goku silk screen shirt tucked into his sweatpants probably isn't an eccentric genius.
I know that's how a lot of people on PA probably see themselves so I imagine that this is part of why this stance is causing some sort of consternation among people who are taking this pretty presonally.
Ah, so you are upset. Just wanted to confirm that.
What the hell are you even talking about here? I see I've really kicked the hornet's nest for coming out against acting like a dork in public.
A lifetime of swirlies will break a man, I was told, and here is the evidence.
And if you think that not declaring my love of animu or WH40K or what have you is chickenshit, well its good to see an actual admitted man child in this thread, ego.
You've been on the internet too long, dude.
I think he was just taking the piss there.
Whoops. 8-)
i guess i don't really think about him as a "failure as a human being" or anything so much as a dude who is having difficulties in life and trying to work through them, same as anyone else. to his credit, he seems to be aware that he's not where he wants to be and trying to work through it.
(maybe trying to find discrete diagnoses to describe/ justify the difficulties is kind of self-defeating, but i am just kind of spitballking; it just seems that i have met people who have created a personal expectation of failure by coming up with enough medical/ psychological justifications for failure)
i suppose i don't really see it as being in same class as the stuff i'm criticising.
anyways, good luck to you dkarrde. if you feel the compulsion to wear a naruto costume to the mall at some point i would recommend against it
But you know carry on or whatever i guess
well yeah i think that your issues - a culture of delayed adolescence, sloughing responsibility, forestalling adult benchmarks, etc - are something to consider.
but they're not really the particular things i'm bitching about, which kind of boil down to a culture of defiant individualism surrounding child-like hobbies
Well I really don't know how it got that way either but someone insulted the honor of WH40K or anime and it never got out of that rut as people suddenly came out against "judgementalism".
Its the obsessive component combined with the total lack of empathy/judgement skills in life. I mentioned pick up artists and jersey shore bros as falling into this category as well, but people are focused on standing on their soapboxes against thinking that a tuxedo t shirt to a funeral shows a lack of class.
where anyone actually said something like that? I mean, you've accused people of it every couple of pages based on the fact that they disagree with you, but so far I've not seen someone actually defend something along the lines of a "tux shirt at a funeral"
No, it gets ignored so people can keep on strawmanning about me being against wearing a pac man shirt to the mall and demanding studies to show that Mr. 35 y/o in sweatpants playing Pokemans in the Food Court 8 hours a day is kind of a loser as opposed to the awesome dude he MIGHT be.
I demanded a study as one possible piece of evidence supporting any of the claims you made.
I'd also except a reasonable or logical argument, but you can't provide that either.
And I pointed out how your demand of a study was kind of retarded, and indicated a...shall we say naive way of thinking at best, at which point you promptly missed the point and went off on yet another tangent about t shirts.
Like, were you surprised when the homeless dude who lived in a van didn't have free puppies and candy in the back of it?
Yeah I mean the reason you don't wear a megadeth t-shirt at a funeral isn't because you're trying to conform, it's because you're trying to respect the family of the recently departed. If it's a choice between asserting my individuality, or paying respect to friends/family, I will choose to respect friends/family. I frankly don't care what people in society think of my Naruto car ear Pac Man fetish though and I don't think anyone else should either.
legionofone bleats a lot about context while completely ignoring the concept himself.
Psst: I don't really want a study. What I want is for you to explain your thought process, in a logical/reasoning manner. If you aren't able to do that, you don't actually have a valid argument. Do I really need to keep repeating myself? I mean then you blame me for condescending to you and being a hypocrite, but it's not my fault if you are perpetually stupid.
Except you do care, otherwise you wouldn't be riding around on a high horse getting all huffy about people being judgemental to random strangers in public.
And that's part of why you're a man child, Drez. Because you want to do what you want, but don't want consequences for those actions. You want to wear your Naruto headband out to town because you think you're hot shit, go ahead. Just expect to have people going "..Really?" and having a bit of a chuckle. Instead of leaving Neverland, you'd rather go on and on in your safe zone (here) about how society should learn to accomodate your inability to leave childhood behind.
Basically you want me to explain basic human interaction and why that person who looks and dresses nice rates more favorably than someone who dresses like a slob.
So are basic social situations a problem for you and your spergin, drez?