I think in this case his assumption is fair. We haven't been playing "Anthony vs the Metroids" for 20 years, so I'm pretty sure Samus has more experience.
I think in this case his assumption is fair. We haven't been playing "Anthony vs the Metroids" for 20 years, so I'm pretty sure Samus has more experience.
Except that is what it is, an assumption. Doesn't matter if it is a fair one or not. That's like me saying you have a lot of experience playing video games. I don't know for sure but I can assume you do. Anthony is a Galactic Federation Soldier, I am pretty sure he has some combat experience and just by his demeanor in the game, I am going to go ahead and say, quite a bit of experience. If anything, I am sure he has had a ton of training.
Two points to support above:
1. The military doesn't just give the heavy weapons to anyone, they give it to the most competant soldiers and then they train them heavily with it. Point here is that Anthony was the only one that had the heavy weapon.
2. The team only consisted of a few people. A militaristic small group generally means Special Forces, Rangers, Navy Seals, Marine Recon or even Delta Force. They were probably the best of the best or at least one of the beat the Galactic Federation has to offer.
I base my assumptions off of real life experiences. Others seem to be doing it for the sake of argument. I don't necessarily like the plot, gameplay, etc. but I at least recognize that a lot of it is plausable and more than likely given my personal experencies with the military and law enforcement.
you know you miss the melodious cadence of my posts
and the tasty truth contained therein
It's funny how your last two posts were pointless and actually kinda rude. Now I know you are incapable but at least try to prgress the thread with intelligent debate. We do give points for trying.
you know you miss the melodious cadence of my posts
and the tasty truth contained therein
It's funny how your last two posts were pointless and actually kinda rude. Now I know you are incapable but at least try to prgress the thread with intelligent debate. We do give points for trying.
maybe you could try making a coherent point that isn't limited to whacking off over your military service
you know you miss the melodious cadence of my posts
and the tasty truth contained therein
It's funny how your last two posts were pointless and actually kinda rude. Now I know you are incapable but at least try to prgress the thread with intelligent debate. We do give points for trying.
maybe you could try making a coherent point that isn't limited to whacking off over your military service
So personal experiences are not something to be proud of? Escpecially if it's related to the topic at hand? Why are you so hostile to the fact that I served in the military? Were you rejected? What is the reason for your ad hominem? In any event, stop derailing the thread.
you know you miss the melodious cadence of my posts
and the tasty truth contained therein
It's funny how your last two posts were pointless and actually kinda rude. Now I know you are incapable but at least try to prgress the thread with intelligent debate. We do give points for trying.
maybe you could try making a coherent point that isn't limited to whacking off over your military service
So personal experiences are not something to be proud of? Escpecially if it's related to the topic at hand? Why are you so hostile to the fact that I served in the military? Were you rejected? What is the reason for your ad hominem?
how about you take a tep back and consider the fact that you are trying to claim a high position on arguing about a video game - and an obviously poorly researched and written one, at that - by squawking over and over again that you, like, know stuff about the army, man
if you want to sling around fallacies, that's a pretty big one right there, and it would be dumb as shit even if it weren't in such an irrelevant context
i've at least managed to back up my points with actual arguments, while all you've done is sling around the manga and then your stint in the military to try and shout down any contrary point
Rust, I don't think you've managed to convince anyone of anything other than that you're an asshole. It's ok to engage in a passionate discussion but you've been arrogant, insulting and completely dismissive of anything contrary to your opinion. You don't have a lot of friends, do you?
I think in this case his assumption is fair. We haven't been playing "Anthony vs the Metroids" for 20 years, so I'm pretty sure Samus has more experience.
Except that is what it is, an assumption. Doesn't matter if it is a fair one or not. That's like me saying you have a lot of experience playing video games. I don't know for sure but I can assume you do. Anthony is a Galactic Federation Soldier, I am pretty sure he has some combat experience and just by his demeanor in the game, I am going to go ahead and say, quite a bit of experience. If anything, I am sure he has had a ton of training.
Two points to support above:
1. The military doesn't just give the heavy weapons to anyone, they give it to the most competant soldiers and then they train them heavily with it. Point here is that Anthony was the only one that had the heavy weapon.
2. The team only consisted of a few people. A militaristic small group generally means Special Forces, Rangers, Navy Seals, Marine Recon or even Delta Force. They were probably the best of the best or at least one of the beat the Galactic Federation has to offer.
I base my assumptions off of real life experiences. Others seem to be doing it for the sake of argument. I don't necessarily like the plot, gameplay, etc. but I at least recognize that a lot of it is plausable and more than likely given my personal experencies with the military and law enforcement.
Suggesting that Anthony is more adept at killing metroids and space pirates by himself is laughable.
If you're making the "fair" assumption that Anthony is a trained soldier based upon what it means to be in the special forces, then I can make a "fair" assumption that it's ridiculous that someone who has single handedly killed Ridley four times, Kraid twice, numerous other space pirates more than once, and the single greatest threat to the universe pretty much every game would be paralyzed with fear and anxiety, whereas someone who hasn't even come close to single-handedly handling anything remotely close to Ridley wouldn't think twice and hop right in, even though it's pretty clear that he's going to get his shit pushed in.
I'm basing their combat experience upon evidence provided by the game - what are you basing yours on?
Assumptions.
And the silly thing is your assumptions still don't explain away why what amounts to a super soldier becomes paralyzed over something she's killed four times, whereas a grunt, albeit a specially trained grunt, doesn't.
Considering the Federation turns to Samus to fight the Space Pirates all the damn times, I think we can conclude that she has more experience dealing with them and their leader. As if they could do it without her, presumably they would.
enlightenedbum on
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
And the silly thing is your assumptions still don't explain away why what amounts to a super soldier becomes paralyzed over something she's killed four times, whereas a grunt, albeit a specially trained grunt, doesn't.
Don't be ridiculous.
First, remember that Samus has also single handedly lost to Ridley at least twice, while Anthony hasn't yet. Doesn't it stand to reason that he might be more headstrong because he doesn't know what kind of threat this is, and he's the guy holding the big gun, and the monster's not even focused on him? It's far easier to be brave when you're not the target, and when you think you've got someone to defend, and when you've been hot shit up to that point.
I'm not sure why you keep trawling up this argument when it's been ridiculous since its first occurrence. Easily explained away earlier in the thread, and in multiple ways:
I can understand Samus being shocked as hell to see Ridley, considering the last time you ran into him in Super Metroid you sort of killed him and then blew up the planet his corpse was on. Samus had probably put him completely behind her and seeing him like was no doubt shocking.
Right, and her narration at the start makes it sound like several years passed, if not more. People forgot about Space Pirates and Metroids! Samus thought that chapter of her life was over.
I still say that the method of his return (and her role in it) also played a factor.
If you're still saying, nope, none of that matters, there's no explanation...that's essentially abandoning all logic in defense of a single point, just so that you can feel justified in disliking it.
And the silly thing is your assumptions still don't explain away why what amounts to a super soldier becomes paralyzed over something she's killed four times, whereas a grunt, albeit a specially trained grunt, doesn't.
Don't be ridiculous.
First, remember that Samus has also single handedly lost to Ridley at least twice, while Anthony hasn't yet. Doesn't it stand to reason that he might be more headstrong because he doesn't know what kind of threat this is, and he's the guy holding the big gun, and the monster's not even focused on him? It's far easier to be brave when you're not the target, and when you think you've got someone to defend, and when you've been hot shit up to that point.
I'm not sure why you keep trawling up this argument when it's been ridiculous since its first occurrence. Easily explained away earlier in the thread, and in multiple ways:
I can understand Samus being shocked as hell to see Ridley, considering the last time you ran into him in Super Metroid you sort of killed him and then blew up the planet his corpse was on. Samus had probably put him completely behind her and seeing him like was no doubt shocking.
Right, and her narration at the start makes it sound like several years passed, if not more. People forgot about Space Pirates and Metroids! Samus thought that chapter of her life was over.
I still say that the method of his return (and her role in it) also played a factor.
If you're still saying, nope, none of that matters, there's no explanation...that's essentially abandoning all logic in defense of a single point, just so that you can feel justified in disliking it.
No, I'm saying that shock is not the equivalent of paralysis lasting nearly 5-10 seconds as the leader of the space pirates slowly looms towards you. Shock is not going into a traumatic breakdown over a villain you've killed four times.
Samus can be shocked and even intimidated.
She realistically shouldn't be crippled.
Sorry sporky, it isn't me that's living in fantasy land.
The only reason why I keep hammering this point home is because somehow people can't grasp the difference between crippling fear and anxiety compared to shock and surprise, or even intimidation. Taking a step back is intimidation. Turning into a metaphorical child is crippling fear.
Realistically, she has been crippled by Ridley in the same way at least twice.
She's been crippled by other things quite often as well, some of them being less threatening than Ridley (i.e., a particularly hard knock against a wall. But nobody criticizes the Primes.)
Realistically, she has been crippled by Ridley in the same way at least twice.
She's been crippled by other things quite often as well, some of them being less threatening than Ridley (i.e., a particularly hard knock against a wall. But nobody criticizes the Primes.)
So you're conflating physical trauma with mental trauma now?
You're saying a physical blow to the wall which hurts, and reasonably would leave you dazed is the same kind of cripple as one where a looming monster leaves someone's knees weak and therefore they cannot act?
Why am I even asking a question - that's what you're literally saying - that's absurd.
No, I'm just saying it doesn't seem to be that hard to cripple Samus either way.
Actually if you watch the scene from Prime where she sees Ridley she reacts the exact same way as in Other M: pointing her gun at him, not shooting at all, and then kicking herself when she recovers a few seconds later. This is pattern behavior.
EDIT: Anyway, none of that's really relevant, you haven't said anything to disprove any of the statements above, just made a blanket statement about how she can't be shocked, she just can't be. There's no evidence, you're just making an assumption in spite of evidence to the contrary.
She wasn't shocked, anyway. Most people don't experience traumatic flashbacks just because they're surprised. It's PTSD, as has been said many times.
No, I'm just saying it doesn't seem to be that hard to cripple Samus either way.
That's incredibly disingenuous then. Why would you even bring it up then - it's not even relevant to what we're talking about - which is Samus being crippled because of the emotional trauma of simply seeing Ridley.
Actually if you watch the scene from Prime where she sees Ridley she reacts the exact same way as in Other M: pointing her gun at him, not shooting at all, and then kicking herself when she recovers a few seconds later. This is pattern behavior.
You're arguing here that Samus feels the same crippling fear in Prime that she felt in Metroid Other M.
You're trying to honestly argue that she reacts the same exact way starting at 5:51 of this video.
She hears a noise, a roar, looks around with her gun, sees ridley, hesitates (which may be interpreted as intimidation) and that is all.
In the second video, spoilered for those of you still playing...
She first opens up in the same way - hears a noise, raises her gun, looks around.
Ridley appears. She gasps, then as he slowly approaches her, she starts taking not one, not two, but several steps back.
She begins to breathe heavily, suggesting a massive amount of anxiety.
Her voice quivers as she says "Ridley?!" with surprise.
She then, visually and metaphorically, turns into a child, holding her hands to her face while wimpering AND crying.
She then LOWERS HER GUN presumably because of her crippling fear while taking more steps back.
A trooper starts yelling at her.
She says "It can't be!"
This entire scene literally takes 20-30 seconds.
And then continues.
Sporky, you're not only disingenuous, but you're also delusional. It's really quite absurd, because if I took this to any stranger on the street, they'd realize that the two scenes, what they suggest, and how they play out are incredibly different.
They also elicit different emotional responses.
You're wrong. Deal with it instead of trying to say that this is the same Samus we've grown up with while hoping I won't dig up the evidence.
<sigh> I wasn't going to jump in here untill I finished the game all the way but...
I loved that sean. The one with Ridley. That a lot of people seem to think destroys Samus. I didn't see it that way.
I saw it as Ridley being Samus' personal bogeyman. We all have those things that just freak us out. Even the invisible people. When everyone bagged on this scene it sound like she curled into a little ball and started weeping whilst Adam lectured everyone in a 10 mile radius on how to properly treat the "weaker" sex. Instead I got a scene of Samus getting one heck of a nasty shock from the monster that had destroyed her world multiple times over and that she had thought was dead and blow into space dust with the rest of a planet. She then gets ruffed up as she composes her self, helped out by a friend who Ridley who then gets killed buy the said monster specifically to mess with Samus. She then kicks monster's ass so hard (in one hell of a boss battle) that rather then fight to death, he flees from her as fast as he can with her in hot pursuit. She starts hunting Ridley down, quite literally going after her own boogeyman.
I'll post my full thoughts on the game once I'm at 100% done.
EDIT: Anyway, none of that's really relevant, you haven't said anything to disprove any of the statements above, just made a blanket statement about how she can't be shocked, she just can't be. There's no evidence, you're just making an assumption in spite of evidence to the contrary.
She wasn't shocked, anyway. Most people don't experience traumatic flashbacks just because they're surprised. It's PTSD, as has been said many times.
The fuck are you talking about. I didn't say that she wasn't shocked or that it was impossible for her to be shocked. I said that in Other M, she was crippled with fear. I said if anything being shocked WOULD be the appropriate response - but only that based upon her previous experiences.
And most people don't suddenly develop PTSD after fighting the same thing for 10-15 years that would theoretically have given her PTSD all those times.
Let me explain it to you.
Traumatic incident? Check. At this point, you'd probably say the chances of PTSD would be present after that experience. Her traumatic experience was when her parents were killed by Ridley.
She literally encountered the same fucking thing four times and triumphed, with NO signs of PTSD. If she suffered from it, she would have had that same crippling fear in all the games. If anything, the FIRST time she encountered Ridley we should have seen some sort of response.
Suddenly, on the fifth encounter, PTSD shows up? She also manages to RECOVER FROM THE PTSD DURING THE FIGHT!?
Sorry, my Uncle suffered from it after vietnam. That is not how it fucking works.
<sigh> I wasn't going to jump in here untill I finished the game all the way but...
I loved that sean. The one with Ridley. That a lot of people seem to think destroys Samus. I didn't see it that way.
I saw it as Ridley being Samus' personal bogeyman. We all have those things that just freak us out. Even the invisible people. When everyone bagged on this scene it sound like she curled into a little ball and started weeping whilst Adam lectured everyone in a 10 mile radius on how to properly treat the "weaker" sex. Instead I got a scene of Samus getting one heck of a nasty shock from the monster that had destroyed her world multiple times over and that she had thought was dead and blow into space dust with the rest of a planet. She then gets ruffed up as she composes her self, helped out by a friend who Ridley who then gets killed buy the said monster specifically to mess with Samus. She then kicks monster's ass so hard (in one hell of a boss battle) that rather then fight to death, he flees from her as fast as he can with her in hot pursuit. She starts hunting Ridley down, quite literally going after her own boogeyman.
I'll post my full thoughts on the game once I'm at 100% done.
I'm not talking about sexism here - I'm talking about consistent and realistic character development.
No, I'm just saying it doesn't seem to be that hard to cripple Samus either way.
That's incredibly disingenuous then. Why would you even bring it up then - it's not even relevant to what we're talking about - which is Samus being crippled because of the emotional trauma of simply seeing Ridley.
Chill out, this isn't college debate class. It's just a riff on the word "crippled," you didn't specify emotionally.
You're wrong. Deal with it instead of trying to say that this is the same Samus we've grown up with while hoping I won't dig up the evidence.
I watched the video just before I posted, and there's barely any difference.
Let's compare honestly for once - evidence from the game why Samus is justified in being temporarily disabled:
- Samus' parents were killed in front of her by Ridley, enough to seriously emotionally scar anyone
- Samus has crumbled in front of Ridley at least twice, and hesitated at least three times; it's pattern behavior
- Unlike previous attempts, the last time she encountered Ridley he was utterly destroyed and his planet was blown up; she knew it was over
- Enough time has passed since then for people to actually forget about space pirates, previously stated to be the single greatest threat to the galaxy
- When he approaches her in Other M, it is in exactly the same way he did after killing her parents
evidence from the game why Samus is not justified in being temporarily disabled:
- Samus has given Ridley a beating four times (though only really killed him once)
evidence from outside the game why Samus is not justified in being temporarily disabled:
She literally encountered the same fucking thing four times and triumphed, with NO signs of PTSD. If she suffered from it, she would have had that same crippling fear in all the games. If anything, the FIRST time she encountered Ridley we should have seen some sort of response.
She did have that response the first time (Metroid 1 being her second time). Her first encounter even had the same situation with the suit turning off.
Oh, I did forget to add some points to the list above, addressing Samus' past fear:
- Storytelling wasn't Nintendo's focus at the time, but they've made it obvious now that she has been afraid previously.
- Despite that fear, it was greatly dampened in Metroid 1 because she knew she was going to fight Ridley. She took the fight to him.
- She hesitated and let him escape in Prime. Again she knew she was going to fight him and took the battle to him.
- She let her fear get the better of her in Super Metroid, when Ridley ambushed her and stole the hatchling. This is analogous to Other M's Ridley scene.
- Again she knew she was going to fight Ridley in Super, and took the fight to him.
This is one of those times that she was caught off guard, as in the past. Off guard Samus = trauma, ready Samus = win. It's been repeated throughout the games over and over.
No, I'm just saying it doesn't seem to be that hard to cripple Samus either way.
That's incredibly disingenuous then. Why would you even bring it up then - it's not even relevant to what we're talking about - which is Samus being crippled because of the emotional trauma of simply seeing Ridley.
Chill out, this isn't college debate class. It's just a riff on the word "crippled," you didn't specify emotionally.
I did specify emotionally.
If you're making the "fair" assumption that Anthony is a trained soldier based upon what it means to be in the special forces, then I can make a "fair" assumption that it's ridiculous that someone who has single handedly killed Ridley four times, Kraid twice, numerous other space pirates more than once, and the single greatest threat to the universe pretty much every game would be paralyzed with fear and anxiety, whereas someone who hasn't even come close to single-handedly handling anything remotely close to Ridley wouldn't think twice and hop right in, even though it's pretty clear that he's going to get his shit pushed in.
And "chill out, this isn't a college debate class" is another way of saying "woah dude, I'm totally wrong, don't take this so seriously and prove me wrong!"
You're wrong. Deal with it instead of trying to say that this is the same Samus we've grown up with while hoping I won't dig up the evidence.
I watched the video just before I posted, and there's barely any difference.
Let's compare honestly for once - evidence from the game why Samus is justified in being temporarily disabled:
- Samus' parents were killed in front of her by Ridley, enough to seriously emotionally scar anyone
- Samus has crumbled in front of Ridley at least twice, and hesitated at least three times; it's pattern behavior
- Unlike previous attempts, the last time she encountered Ridley he was utterly destroyed and his planet was blown up; she knew it was over
- Enough time has passed since then for people to actually forget about space pirates, previously stated to be the single greatest threat to the galaxy
- When he approaches her in Other M, it is in exactly the same way he did after killing her parents
evidence from the game why Samus is not justified in being temporarily disabled:
- Samus has given Ridley a beating four times (though only really killed him once)
evidence from outside the game why Samus is not justified in being temporarily disabled:
- it's "ridiculous."
Okay - if you want to prove your point, bring in the evidence.
1) show me that she doesn't kill him in the previous games. Every source out there shows Ridley dying. Every game out there shows Ridley dying. That's why they need to clone him. Show me evidence instead of asserting something that is false.
2) Show me the scene where Ridley kills her parents and compare it to other M. So far you've only asserted it, not proven it.
And onto your other points.
- Samus' parents were killed in front of her by Ridley, enough to seriously emotionally scar anyone
This doesn't explain why she's scarred upon the fifth encounter rather than one through five.
- Samus has crumbled in front of Ridley at least twice, and hesitated at least three times; it's pattern behavior
Show me where she crumbles in front of Ridley in the other games. And just in case it needs to be said, I mean emotionally.
She literally encountered the same fucking thing four times and triumphed, with NO signs of PTSD. If she suffered from it, she would have had that same crippling fear in all the games. If anything, the FIRST time she encountered Ridley we should have seen some sort of response.
She did have that response the first time (Metroid 1 being her second time). Her first encounter even had the same situation with the suit turning off.
Oh, I did forget to add some points to the list above, addressing Samus' past fear:
- Storytelling wasn't Nintendo's focus at the time, but they've made it obvious now that she has been afraid previously.
- Despite that fear, it was greatly dampened in Metroid 1 because she knew she was going to fight Ridley. She took the fight to him.
- She hesitated and let him escape in Prime. Again she knew she was going to fight him and took the battle to him.
- She let her fear get the better of her in Super Metroid, when Ridley ambushed her and stole the hatchling. This is analogous to Other M's Ridley scene.
- Again she knew she was going to fight Ridley in Super, and took the fight to him.
This is one of those times that she was caught off guard, as in the past. Off guard Samus = trauma, ready Samus = win. It's been repeated throughout the games over and over.
I don't get how knowing you're going to fight something would make it any easier if you were suffering from PTSD or some sort of emotionally trauma. Send a vietnam vet into a war movie and he's still going to flip, even if he knows he's going to go watch it. Hell, he isn't even in Combat at that point.
Metroid other M is the first time that we conclusively see crippling fear. All the other times you're assuming - if you're going to assert that's the emotion that she's feeling, show the scene and explain what it is in her body language that suggests crippling fear that is the equivalent of Other M rather than intimidation or shock.
- She let her fear get the better of her in Super Metroid, when Ridley ambushed her and stole the hatchling. This is analogous to Other M's Ridley scene.
Wow, man. You're just making shit up now. At best, you could say that since it's now how Nintendo says they imagined it all along, that we are supposed to interpret that scene as such (which is still so much bullshit). There is seriously nothing to indicate that she did (or did not!) exhibit any emotion in that scene.
The bad guy got away with the macguffin. That is seriously the most you can draw from that 16 bit scene.
And "chill out, this isn't a college debate class" is another way of saying "woah dude, I'm totally wrong, don't take this so seriously and prove me wrong!"
No, I really, honestly and truly was joking. I'm sorry you took it so seriously.
1) show me that she doesn't kill him in the previous games. Every source out there shows Ridley dying. Every game out there shows Ridley dying. That's why they need to clone him. Show me evidence instead of asserting something that is false.
Ridley, after sustaining severe injury, was wounded beyond fighting capability. However, a scan in the Space Station Orpheon, in the later Metroid Prime game, indicates that he had in fact survived the attack.
In Prime he merely fell, no death was confirmed.
In Super he was actually killed.
I have no idea what Prime 3 was about, it almost felt like a second Ridley showed up out of nowhere. Either way, it's obvious that he was still alive when Super rolled around.
2) Show me the scene where Ridley kills her parents and compare it to other M. So far you've only asserted it, not proven it.
This is after eating her mother:
During her later first serious encounter with Ridley, he taunts her about how her parents "nourished his body."
This doesn't explain why she's scarred upon the fifth encounter rather than one through five.
I covered this above.
Show me where she crumbles in front of Ridley in the other games.
Once in the manga and once in Super Metroid when he escapes with the hatchling.
Seems like, as with almost the entirety with the problems with other M's story it would have all been a great story if it were set as a Samus Begins origin story fist mission type dealio, which would have fleshed out the character and humanised the badass Samus of the later games. But instead it's set after those games and retcons the badass samus in a way that makes no sense.
The storyline seems fine, it's just where it's placed that's the problem.
And "chill out, this isn't a college debate class" is another way of saying "woah dude, I'm totally wrong, don't take this so seriously and prove me wrong!"
No, I really, honestly and truly was joking. I'm sorry you took it so seriously.
1) show me that she doesn't kill him in the previous games. Every source out there shows Ridley dying. Every game out there shows Ridley dying. That's why they need to clone him. Show me evidence instead of asserting something that is false.
Ridley, after sustaining severe injury, was wounded beyond fighting capability. However, a scan in the Space Station Orpheon, in the later Metroid Prime game, indicates that he had in fact survived the attack.
In Prime he merely fell, no death was confirmed.
In Super he was actually killed.
I have no idea what Prime 3 was about, it almost felt like a second Ridley showed up out of nowhere. Either way, it's obvious that he was still alive when Super rolled around.
2) Show me the scene where Ridley kills her parents and compare it to other M. So far you've only asserted it, not proven it.
This is after eating her mother (flashback in Other M):
During her later first serious encounter with Ridley, he taunts her about how her parents "nourished his body."
This doesn't explain why she's scarred upon the fifth encounter rather than one through five.
I covered this above.
Show me where she crumbles in front of Ridley in the other games.
Once in the manga and once in Super Metroid when he escapes with the hatchling.
I see a whole bunch of assertions and a single panel from a comic book whose only noticeable similarity is that it has 1. ridley and 2. samus as a child.
I don't see any evidence. I just see blah blah blah, assumption, assertion.
Seems like, as with almost the entirety with the problems with other M's story it would have all been a great story if it were set as a Samus Begins origin story fist mission type dealio, which would have fleshed out the character and humanised the badass Samus of the later games. But instead it's set after those games and retcons the badass samus in a way that makes no sense.
The storyline seems fine, it's just where it's placed that's the problem.
Sorry dude, it has to end sometime, and I'm ending it. Being a stand-up guy you understand this isn't a concession, but it's just not going to be resolved. Agree to disagree.
Posts
Except that is what it is, an assumption. Doesn't matter if it is a fair one or not. That's like me saying you have a lot of experience playing video games. I don't know for sure but I can assume you do. Anthony is a Galactic Federation Soldier, I am pretty sure he has some combat experience and just by his demeanor in the game, I am going to go ahead and say, quite a bit of experience. If anything, I am sure he has had a ton of training.
Two points to support above:
1. The military doesn't just give the heavy weapons to anyone, they give it to the most competant soldiers and then they train them heavily with it. Point here is that Anthony was the only one that had the heavy weapon.
2. The team only consisted of a few people. A militaristic small group generally means Special Forces, Rangers, Navy Seals, Marine Recon or even Delta Force. They were probably the best of the best or at least one of the beat the Galactic Federation has to offer.
I base my assumptions off of real life experiences. Others seem to be doing it for the sake of argument. I don't necessarily like the plot, gameplay, etc. but I at least recognize that a lot of it is plausable and more than likely given my personal experencies with the military and law enforcement.
soooo much less stupid apologia
Do us a favor and stay gone too, ok?
you know you miss the melodious cadence of my posts
and the tasty truth contained therein
It's funny how your last two posts were pointless and actually kinda rude. Now I know you are incapable but at least try to prgress the thread with intelligent debate. We do give points for trying.
maybe you could try making a coherent point that isn't limited to whacking off over your military service
So personal experiences are not something to be proud of? Escpecially if it's related to the topic at hand? Why are you so hostile to the fact that I served in the military? Were you rejected? What is the reason for your ad hominem? In any event, stop derailing the thread.
how about you take a tep back and consider the fact that you are trying to claim a high position on arguing about a video game - and an obviously poorly researched and written one, at that - by squawking over and over again that you, like, know stuff about the army, man
if you want to sling around fallacies, that's a pretty big one right there, and it would be dumb as shit even if it weren't in such an irrelevant context
i've at least managed to back up my points with actual arguments, while all you've done is sling around the manga and then your stint in the military to try and shout down any contrary point
Suggesting that Anthony is more adept at killing metroids and space pirates by himself is laughable.
If you're making the "fair" assumption that Anthony is a trained soldier based upon what it means to be in the special forces, then I can make a "fair" assumption that it's ridiculous that someone who has single handedly killed Ridley four times, Kraid twice, numerous other space pirates more than once, and the single greatest threat to the universe pretty much every game would be paralyzed with fear and anxiety, whereas someone who hasn't even come close to single-handedly handling anything remotely close to Ridley wouldn't think twice and hop right in, even though it's pretty clear that he's going to get his shit pushed in.
I'm basing their combat experience upon evidence provided by the game - what are you basing yours on?
Assumptions.
And the silly thing is your assumptions still don't explain away why what amounts to a super soldier becomes paralyzed over something she's killed four times, whereas a grunt, albeit a specially trained grunt, doesn't.
Don't be ridiculous.
Not based on Anthony's experience, but this specific quote:
First, remember that Samus has also single handedly lost to Ridley at least twice, while Anthony hasn't yet. Doesn't it stand to reason that he might be more headstrong because he doesn't know what kind of threat this is, and he's the guy holding the big gun, and the monster's not even focused on him? It's far easier to be brave when you're not the target, and when you think you've got someone to defend, and when you've been hot shit up to that point.
I'm not sure why you keep trawling up this argument when it's been ridiculous since its first occurrence. Easily explained away earlier in the thread, and in multiple ways:
If you're still saying, nope, none of that matters, there's no explanation...that's essentially abandoning all logic in defense of a single point, just so that you can feel justified in disliking it.
No, I'm saying that shock is not the equivalent of paralysis lasting nearly 5-10 seconds as the leader of the space pirates slowly looms towards you. Shock is not going into a traumatic breakdown over a villain you've killed four times.
Samus can be shocked and even intimidated.
She realistically shouldn't be crippled.
Sorry sporky, it isn't me that's living in fantasy land.
The only reason why I keep hammering this point home is because somehow people can't grasp the difference between crippling fear and anxiety compared to shock and surprise, or even intimidation. Taking a step back is intimidation. Turning into a metaphorical child is crippling fear.
Which is ridiculous.
She's been crippled by other things quite often as well, some of them being less threatening than Ridley (i.e., a particularly hard knock against a wall. But nobody criticizes the Primes.)
So you're conflating physical trauma with mental trauma now?
You're saying a physical blow to the wall which hurts, and reasonably would leave you dazed is the same kind of cripple as one where a looming monster leaves someone's knees weak and therefore they cannot act?
Why am I even asking a question - that's what you're literally saying - that's absurd.
Actually if you watch the scene from Prime where she sees Ridley she reacts the exact same way as in Other M: pointing her gun at him, not shooting at all, and then kicking herself when she recovers a few seconds later. This is pattern behavior.
EDIT: Anyway, none of that's really relevant, you haven't said anything to disprove any of the statements above, just made a blanket statement about how she can't be shocked, she just can't be. There's no evidence, you're just making an assumption in spite of evidence to the contrary.
She wasn't shocked, anyway. Most people don't experience traumatic flashbacks just because they're surprised. It's PTSD, as has been said many times.
That's incredibly disingenuous then. Why would you even bring it up then - it's not even relevant to what we're talking about - which is Samus being crippled because of the emotional trauma of simply seeing Ridley.
You're arguing here that Samus feels the same crippling fear in Prime that she felt in Metroid Other M.
You're trying to honestly argue that she reacts the same exact way starting at 5:51 of this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSXhN_pUJLQ&feature=related
As she does in this video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrwN5jS4bt4&feature=related
Let me run through the first video.
She hears a noise, a roar, looks around with her gun, sees ridley, hesitates (which may be interpreted as intimidation) and that is all.
In the second video, spoilered for those of you still playing...
Ridley appears. She gasps, then as he slowly approaches her, she starts taking not one, not two, but several steps back.
She begins to breathe heavily, suggesting a massive amount of anxiety.
Her voice quivers as she says "Ridley?!" with surprise.
She then, visually and metaphorically, turns into a child, holding her hands to her face while wimpering AND crying.
She then LOWERS HER GUN presumably because of her crippling fear while taking more steps back.
A trooper starts yelling at her.
She says "It can't be!"
This entire scene literally takes 20-30 seconds.
And then continues.
Sporky, you're not only disingenuous, but you're also delusional. It's really quite absurd, because if I took this to any stranger on the street, they'd realize that the two scenes, what they suggest, and how they play out are incredibly different.
They also elicit different emotional responses.
You're wrong. Deal with it instead of trying to say that this is the same Samus we've grown up with while hoping I won't dig up the evidence.
I loved that sean. The one with Ridley. That a lot of people seem to think destroys Samus. I didn't see it that way.
I'll post my full thoughts on the game once I'm at 100% done.
The fuck are you talking about. I didn't say that she wasn't shocked or that it was impossible for her to be shocked. I said that in Other M, she was crippled with fear. I said if anything being shocked WOULD be the appropriate response - but only that based upon her previous experiences.
And most people don't suddenly develop PTSD after fighting the same thing for 10-15 years that would theoretically have given her PTSD all those times.
Let me explain it to you.
Traumatic incident? Check. At this point, you'd probably say the chances of PTSD would be present after that experience. Her traumatic experience was when her parents were killed by Ridley.
She literally encountered the same fucking thing four times and triumphed, with NO signs of PTSD. If she suffered from it, she would have had that same crippling fear in all the games. If anything, the FIRST time she encountered Ridley we should have seen some sort of response.
Suddenly, on the fifth encounter, PTSD shows up? She also manages to RECOVER FROM THE PTSD DURING THE FIGHT!?
Sorry, my Uncle suffered from it after vietnam. That is not how it fucking works.
I'm not talking about sexism here - I'm talking about consistent and realistic character development.
I watched the video just before I posted, and there's barely any difference.
Let's compare honestly for once - evidence from the game why Samus is justified in being temporarily disabled:
- Samus' parents were killed in front of her by Ridley, enough to seriously emotionally scar anyone
- Samus has crumbled in front of Ridley at least twice, and hesitated at least three times; it's pattern behavior
- Unlike previous attempts, the last time she encountered Ridley he was utterly destroyed and his planet was blown up; she knew it was over
- Enough time has passed since then for people to actually forget about space pirates, previously stated to be the single greatest threat to the galaxy
- When he approaches her in Other M, it is in exactly the same way he did after killing her parents
evidence from the game why Samus is not justified in being temporarily disabled:
- Samus has given Ridley a beating four times (though only really killed him once)
evidence from outside the game why Samus is not justified in being temporarily disabled:
- it's "ridiculous."
She did have that response the first time (Metroid 1 being her second time). Her first encounter even had the same situation with the suit turning off.
Oh, I did forget to add some points to the list above, addressing Samus' past fear:
- Storytelling wasn't Nintendo's focus at the time, but they've made it obvious now that she has been afraid previously.
- Despite that fear, it was greatly dampened in Metroid 1 because she knew she was going to fight Ridley. She took the fight to him.
- She hesitated and let him escape in Prime. Again she knew she was going to fight him and took the battle to him.
- She let her fear get the better of her in Super Metroid, when Ridley ambushed her and stole the hatchling. This is analogous to Other M's Ridley scene.
- Again she knew she was going to fight Ridley in Super, and took the fight to him.
This is one of those times that she was caught off guard, as in the past. Off guard Samus = trauma, ready Samus = win. It's been repeated throughout the games over and over.
I did specify emotionally.
And "chill out, this isn't a college debate class" is another way of saying "woah dude, I'm totally wrong, don't take this so seriously and prove me wrong!"
Okay - if you want to prove your point, bring in the evidence.
1) show me that she doesn't kill him in the previous games. Every source out there shows Ridley dying. Every game out there shows Ridley dying. That's why they need to clone him. Show me evidence instead of asserting something that is false.
2) Show me the scene where Ridley kills her parents and compare it to other M. So far you've only asserted it, not proven it.
And onto your other points.
This doesn't explain why she's scarred upon the fifth encounter rather than one through five.
Show me where she crumbles in front of Ridley in the other games. And just in case it needs to be said, I mean emotionally.
I don't get how knowing you're going to fight something would make it any easier if you were suffering from PTSD or some sort of emotionally trauma. Send a vietnam vet into a war movie and he's still going to flip, even if he knows he's going to go watch it. Hell, he isn't even in Combat at that point.
Metroid other M is the first time that we conclusively see crippling fear. All the other times you're assuming - if you're going to assert that's the emotion that she's feeling, show the scene and explain what it is in her body language that suggests crippling fear that is the equivalent of Other M rather than intimidation or shock.
Wow, man. You're just making shit up now. At best, you could say that since it's now how Nintendo says they imagined it all along, that we are supposed to interpret that scene as such (which is still so much bullshit). There is seriously nothing to indicate that she did (or did not!) exhibit any emotion in that scene.
The bad guy got away with the macguffin. That is seriously the most you can draw from that 16 bit scene.
I'd say that's fairly subjective.
Can I lime this harder?
Guys... it's a retcon. It happens. Take a deep breath.
We can put it to a vote.
...Wait, you think every Ridley has been a clone?
In Prime he merely fell, no death was confirmed.
In Super he was actually killed.
I have no idea what Prime 3 was about, it almost felt like a second Ridley showed up out of nowhere. Either way, it's obvious that he was still alive when Super rolled around.
This is after eating her mother:
During her later first serious encounter with Ridley, he taunts her about how her parents "nourished his body."
I covered this above.
Once in the manga and once in Super Metroid when he escapes with the hatchling.
The storyline seems fine, it's just where it's placed that's the problem.
I see a whole bunch of assertions and a single panel from a comic book whose only noticeable similarity is that it has 1. ridley and 2. samus as a child.
I don't see any evidence. I just see blah blah blah, assumption, assertion.
Here's Ridley's wiki.
http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Ridley
Dies in Metroid.
Dies in Super Metroid
Survives in Prime to become Omega Ridley in 3.
Dies in Prime 3
Except some of us are trying to argue that it isn't a retcon, which I find insulting to my intelligence and reality.
I could agree with this.