I'm not really talking about the gimmicks themselves so much as the way they are presented. If you watch a warlock pop his cooldowns you can see him spewing out instant cast soulfires, or chain a series of explosions with multiple seed of corruptions...a healer gets all kinda sparkles and bubbles, paladins and dks get the aoe effects...warriors. Well when you have a warrior tank all you know at the end of the fight is that your either dead or alive due to something that warrior did. im saying blizzard could make the same skills they have now look fun to cast and use...the only thing warriors get that we see is when they charge.
Warriors can do a shitload of things no other tanks can do. Is the concern that they just don't do things with mana or a glowy healing light?
Frankly this game needs fewer classes putting glowing shit all over our screen in raids. Yeah, that ominous circle of damage looks neat the first few times, but when it's obscuring void zones or distracting players' eyes from UI elements they should be seeing, it's actually kind of a downside.
forty on
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SenshiBALLING OUT OF CONTROLWavefrontRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
I love my Warrior for the simple reason that what you see is what you get. No flashy shit, it's just me, my sword, and my board. We have all the tools necessary, and we're lucky enough to have tools that require finesse and grace (and in some cases, a mean-spirited sense of humor—trolololo spell reflect) to apply properly. Warriors are refreshingly vanilla in a game that's a total sensory overload in terms of flavors. If it keeps the amount of warriors down to a minimum, that's just a pleasant bonus. Maybe that's why I like my shaman. Apart from totems, shammies are pretty low-key. I dig that.
And as far as rogues not having flashy shit goes, I'd say Stealth is pretty darn awesome.
There is a reason warriors look boring and don't have flashing sparklies that make people go "oooh", and it's cause they're the most awesome class in the game, and Blizzard doesn't want everyone playing warriors.
I've got an 80 paladin druid and warrior. When cata released I deleted my 80 DK cause it's such a shit class compared to warrior I had no reason to play it. Yes captain america is a sweet pulling ability, and deathgrip is cool when there's that caster just flinging shadowbolts at people, but you know what's cooler, hitting that asshole in the face with his own fucking shadowbolt.
The only thing I wish for was that VR had a better mechanic for use. There is that talent that gimps it, but it still relies on the mob to be > 20%. But honestly without putting it on a long cool down I can't think of a way to balance it. That's how awesome warriors are, they have 1 heal that relies on them already having killed something, any other way of using the heal would be OP.
Obviously this post is made mostly in jest, but really warriors need extra flash and dazzle like a bull needs tits. There could be a few tweaks to the class sure, but every class could use a few tweaks. I do miss Vigilance giving you that characters threat though, that was like having permanent redirect / tricks on you.
EWom on
Whether they find a life there or not, I think Jupiter should be called an enemy planet.
I'm not saying warriors NEED flash or dazzle. Someone asked why you don't see as many warrior tanks, and that was my answer. I love my warrior the way she is, and wouldn't change a thing. But other people are attracted to classes by things that in no way relate to the classes ability to do their combat-job. So thus other people will not experience the awesome that is Warrior.
Decomposey on
Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
Maybe there are jsut as many warrior tanks as other tanks, you just don't see them. Because we're stealthy. Like devilsaurs.
Decomposey on
Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
Glyph of Intimidating Shout is pretty boss for warrior tanking. If someone screws up a pull or grabs something extra or CC runs out at a bad time, its a nice emergency button. Between that and shockwave a warrior tank can lock down a big group for around 11-12 seconds pretty easily.
I'm playing around with victory rush as a tank, glyphing and specing for it. Seems like it could be kind of useful, but I'm not sure if Impending Victory is really worth 2 points. 10% shield slam crit versus a crappy victory rush proc when a boss is almost dead?
I'm playing around with victory rush as a tank, glyphing and specing for it. Seems like it could be kind of useful, but I'm not sure if Impending Victory is really worth 2 points. 10% shield slam crit versus a crappy victory rush proc when a boss is almost dead?
And when your healers are likely running out of mana.
Jephery on
}
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Anyone know a good quest based tanking trinket that the horde can get? I think theres a great one for alliance in twilight highlands but i don't know of a horde equivalent. My gear is almost 333 across the board except for my horrible horrible trinkets.
I've seen horde characters with some 318 green trinket with a good chunk of stam, so horde must get one in TH as well (I haven't done much of anything there yet, so I don't know what quest would give it).
Instead of making one enemy cower in place and the rest flee (and get adds), it makes all of them cower. Essentially it makes Intimidating Shout actually usable.
Anyone know a good quest based tanking trinket that the horde can get? I think theres a great one for alliance in twilight highlands but i don't know of a horde equivalent. My gear is almost 333 across the board except for my horrible horrible trinkets.
Does agi still give dodge and armor? The tooltip says only crit.
Lykouragh on
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited December 2010
Warriors are good about tanking groups and being mobile. Other than that, I think we are behind on the tanking curve.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
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GrobianWhat's on sale?Pliers!Registered Userregular
Does agi still give dodge and armor? The tooltip says only crit.
I'm pretty sure they removed the armor component from agi, but it still gives dodge. Or at least it does for druids, I don't know why it would behave differently for warriors.
My goblin warrior hit 61 yesturday and I love her! I've been leveling as prot (decked out with all sorts of heirloom gear) and wow its been easy so far, nothing can stop me and I usually top dps even when I tank instances. It feels kinda strange but now that I'm in outland I'm guessing the true dps classes are going to start shining. I usually play healer but its nice to do some tanking and take a more active role (healing was really way to easy in WOTLK).
Does agi still give dodge and armor? The tooltip says only crit.
I'm pretty sure they removed the armor component from agi, but it still gives dodge. Or at least it does for druids, I don't know why it would behave differently for warriors.
Yes, agility does give warriors some extra dodge chance.
I had wondered this myself, so tested it, thinking it was now a worthless tanking stat (I guess this is debatable). Dont know why they wouldn't include this in the tooltip though.
Edit: And, as you say, agi does not seem to give any extra armor now.
Yeah, actually, doing a search on wowhead it seems that agi is not an intended primary tanking stat. There is only one high level plate item with agi, and it's a PVP item at that.
Warriors are good about tanking groups and being mobile. Other than that, I think we are behind on the tanking curve.
It's kinda funny. Used to be we were then kings and queens of single mob tanking, but we were horrible on packs. Now give me a pack and I can kit them all day. Beasts on TotTs? Shadow Contructs on HoO? Bring 'em on, I can run them in circles around the group laughing all the while. Yet other tanks now surpass us on single mobs. Wonder when the pendulum will swing back again.
Decomposey on
Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
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Munkus BeaverYou don't have to attend every argument you are invited to.Philosophy: Stoicism. Politics: Democratic SocialistRegistered User, ClubPAregular
edited December 2010
Agility gives a very negligible amount of dodge. And strength now gives us parry! It's an odd world.
Munkus Beaver on
Humor can be dissected as a frog can, but dies in the process.
Is there diminishing returns on critical block the more mastery you get?
Nope, there are no DRs on mastery for now, which is why it's the best rating stat for all the tanks (except maybe druids? don't know what's going on with bears).
Warriors can already hit the first block "soft cap"/milestone in current gear, where every hit will be avoided or blocked while shield block is up, which turns shield block into an extremely powerful and reliable cooldown against bosses whose main damage components against the tank are mostly physical.
forty on
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TurksonNear the mountains of ColoradoRegistered Userregular
Agility gives a very negligible amount of dodge. And strength now gives us parry! It's an odd world.
They copied the DK str->parry ability and gave it to all the plate wearers. It's kinda strange having 10%+ parry as an arms warrior.
I finally replaced my O.O.O.O. last night with a heroic sword. I can already see a huge difference in my dps, can't wait til tomorrow when we try some 25 mans.
So can anyone recommend a good prot leveling spec? Just started a new character and I don't quite know where to put my points, really.
I just levelled up a warrior and I'm not sure if prot is the way to go as there aren't really alot of opportunities for you to gather up loads of mobs and aoe tank them down.
however ...
I'm playing around with victory rush as a tank, glyphing and specing for it. Seems like it could be kind of useful, but I'm not sure if Impending Victory is really worth 2 points. 10% shield slam crit versus a crappy victory rush proc when a boss is almost dead?
And when your healers are likely running out of mana.
I've taken two tanking specs instead of a DPS one. My second spec, I'm playing around with, and I took all of the self healing abilities I can, plus I glyphed for victory rush (50% increased healing from a VR? Fuck yeah! OP if you ask me, and I expect to see a nerf.) Healers are loving it, and it frees up tons of their heals for DPS fuckups. During some bosses, they can just ignore healing me as long as adds are up, as my victory rushes that proc when a mob dies heals me for more than 50k. Each thunderclap, cleave, and shockwave will proc it on the first boss (stone worm) in GB when adds are out, it's just ridiculous.
I basically put points into everything in the tanking tree, other than improved intervene, and vigilance. The loss of vigilance isn't that significant in five mans. Other than that, 3 into the fury talent that has a 10% chance to heal you when you take a hit (stays pretty consistent when a bunch of adds are on you), and 2 into the arms talent that increases heals received by 6% and self heals by a whopping 20%.
The improved victory rush talent can be damned useful when bosses have an enrage at low health. And the glyph of victory rush has an impact on those procs as well, plus the added self healing from the Arms talent. It definitely helps with healers if they're having some mana issues, too. Pop last stand, and the heals self heals are worth that much more. The situational factor definitely makes it a bit more questionable than some of the others, but you'll be thanking Thrall when it's proccing all the time, and ignoring everything else to spam devestate.
Really, those self healing talents for warrior tanks are just broken right now, and I definitely expect to see victory rush nerfed to hell (at the very least, take away the experience that boss adds are supposed to provide to prevent VR from proccing, a 50-60k self heal every few seconds is 100 times better than any trinket CD available).
And that one talent that increases your chance to block when you parry, Hold the Line I believe. Remember that one. It becomes useless if you can become unhittable. That's the two points for improved victory rush (or whatever you want, even one point into IVR is really good). Threat is such a non issue right now, I'm not worried about the damage talents in fury and arms.
That's my 2 copper.
Nerdtendo on
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GnomeTankWhat the what?Portland, OregonRegistered Userregular
edited December 2010
Duel spec is so cheap now, I wouldn't level Prot. I would level Arms and have Prot as your off spec for tanking instances.
Have the pleasure of fighting a Blood Death Knight (or any death knight for that matter)? Is it possible to beat them? Can you spell reflect some of their stuff? What is that ability that makes them absorb like 30k damage every 20 damn seconds? I can't find it in their talent tree. I just... ugh.
I'm playing around with victory rush as a tank, glyphing and specing for it. Seems like it could be kind of useful, but I'm not sure if Impending Victory is really worth 2 points. 10% shield slam crit versus a crappy victory rush proc when a boss is almost dead?
And when your healers are likely running out of mana.
I've taken two tanking specs instead of a DPS one. My second spec, I'm playing around with, and I took all of the self healing abilities I can, plus I glyphed for victory rush (50% increased healing from a VR? Fuck yeah! OP if you ask me, and I expect to see a nerf.) Healers are loving it, and it frees up tons of their heals for DPS fuckups. During some bosses, they can just ignore healing me as long as adds are up, as my victory rushes that proc when a mob dies heals me for more than 50k. Each thunderclap, cleave, and shockwave will proc it on the first boss (stone worm) in GB when adds are out, it's just ridiculous.
How are you consistently getting VRs for mob deaths when your chances of getting the KB aren't that good?
Have the pleasure of fighting a Blood Death Knight (or any death knight for that matter)? Is it possible to beat them? Can you spell reflect some of their stuff? What is that ability that makes them absorb like 30k damage every 20 damn seconds? I can't find it in their talent tree. I just... ugh.
Their physical damage absorption comes from blood spec's mastery. Death Striking gives them a physical damage shield for like 6 or 8 seconds.
Have the pleasure of fighting a Blood Death Knight (or any death knight for that matter)? Is it possible to beat them? Can you spell reflect some of their stuff? What is that ability that makes them absorb like 30k damage every 20 damn seconds? I can't find it in their talent tree. I just... ugh.
Their physical damage absorption comes from blood spec's mastery. Death Striking gives them a physical damage shield for like 6 or 8 seconds.
So there is nothing I can do about it?
At least Arcane mages have no hope against me. lol spell reflected your Arcane Blast for 20k. lol I did it again and your dead.
I'm playing around with victory rush as a tank, glyphing and specing for it. Seems like it could be kind of useful, but I'm not sure if Impending Victory is really worth 2 points. 10% shield slam crit versus a crappy victory rush proc when a boss is almost dead?
And when your healers are likely running out of mana.
I've taken two tanking specs instead of a DPS one. My second spec, I'm playing around with, and I took all of the self healing abilities I can, plus I glyphed for victory rush (50% increased healing from a VR? Fuck yeah! OP if you ask me, and I expect to see a nerf.) Healers are loving it, and it frees up tons of their heals for DPS fuckups. During some bosses, they can just ignore healing me as long as adds are up, as my victory rushes that proc when a mob dies heals me for more than 50k. Each thunderclap, cleave, and shockwave will proc it on the first boss (stone worm) in GB when adds are out, it's just ridiculous.
How are you consistently getting VRs for mob deaths when your chances of getting the KB aren't that good?
Because mostly if you're tanking adds and a boss, all the DPS is ignoring the adds. Thus the only things hurting the adds are your bleeds and AOEs. When they die, you get the kill, which procs VR. First boss of Grim batol is a good example of this. Other than the purple trog, the DPS normally can't even SEE the other trogs I'm holing, as the boss is sitting on them, so they don't target them. The stone worm is another. While the DPS focuses on the floaty crystal things, I'll normally have a decent sized pack of the rock spiders scratching at me just waiting to die.
Decomposey on
Before following any advice, opinions, or thoughts I may have expressed in the above post, be warned: I found Keven Costners "Waterworld" to be a very entertaining film.
Posts
Frankly this game needs fewer classes putting glowing shit all over our screen in raids. Yeah, that ominous circle of damage looks neat the first few times, but when it's obscuring void zones or distracting players' eyes from UI elements they should be seeing, it's actually kind of a downside.
And as far as rogues not having flashy shit goes, I'd say Stealth is pretty darn awesome.
I've got an 80 paladin druid and warrior. When cata released I deleted my 80 DK cause it's such a shit class compared to warrior I had no reason to play it. Yes captain america is a sweet pulling ability, and deathgrip is cool when there's that caster just flinging shadowbolts at people, but you know what's cooler, hitting that asshole in the face with his own fucking shadowbolt.
The only thing I wish for was that VR had a better mechanic for use. There is that talent that gimps it, but it still relies on the mob to be > 20%. But honestly without putting it on a long cool down I can't think of a way to balance it. That's how awesome warriors are, they have 1 heal that relies on them already having killed something, any other way of using the heal would be OP.
Obviously this post is made mostly in jest, but really warriors need extra flash and dazzle like a bull needs tits. There could be a few tweaks to the class sure, but every class could use a few tweaks. I do miss Vigilance giving you that characters threat though, that was like having permanent redirect / tricks on you.
What does that WoW census site say about class representation these days?
Paladins 13%
Druids 11%
DKs 11%
Warriors 10%
There doesn't seem to be any way to tell what specs these are.
edit: it doesn't want to go above level 80 either so it's all probably useless information
Those numbers are overall pretty close, especially when, at least in my experience, a lot of paladins are either holy or ret.
The last I checked, my DK is around 7% hit with a little under 1k hit rating.
Maybe there are jsut as many warrior tanks as other tanks, you just don't see them. Because we're stealthy. Like devilsaurs.
I'm playing around with victory rush as a tank, glyphing and specing for it. Seems like it could be kind of useful, but I'm not sure if Impending Victory is really worth 2 points. 10% shield slam crit versus a crappy victory rush proc when a boss is almost dead?
And when your healers are likely running out of mana.
"Orkses never lose a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fightin so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!".
Instead of making one enemy cower in place and the rest flee (and get adds), it makes all of them cower. Essentially it makes Intimidating Shout actually usable.
Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
Yeah, right Here
Also, if you're a Jewelcrafter, there's this and this.
I like Earthen Guardian much more.
Does agi still give dodge and armor? The tooltip says only crit.
I'm pretty sure they removed the armor component from agi, but it still gives dodge. Or at least it does for druids, I don't know why it would behave differently for warriors.
Yes, agility does give warriors some extra dodge chance.
I had wondered this myself, so tested it, thinking it was now a worthless tanking stat (I guess this is debatable). Dont know why they wouldn't include this in the tooltip though.
Edit: And, as you say, agi does not seem to give any extra armor now.
Steam (Ansatz) || GW2 officer (Ansatz.6498)
It's kinda funny. Used to be we were then kings and queens of single mob tanking, but we were horrible on packs. Now give me a pack and I can kit them all day. Beasts on TotTs? Shadow Contructs on HoO? Bring 'em on, I can run them in circles around the group laughing all the while. Yet other tanks now surpass us on single mobs. Wonder when the pendulum will swing back again.
Warriors can already hit the first block "soft cap"/milestone in current gear, where every hit will be avoided or blocked while shield block is up, which turns shield block into an extremely powerful and reliable cooldown against bosses whose main damage components against the tank are mostly physical.
They copied the DK str->parry ability and gave it to all the plate wearers. It's kinda strange having 10%+ parry as an arms warrior.
I finally replaced my O.O.O.O. last night with a heroic sword. I can already see a huge difference in my dps, can't wait til tomorrow when we try some 25 mans.
I just levelled up a warrior and I'm not sure if prot is the way to go as there aren't really alot of opportunities for you to gather up loads of mobs and aoe tank them down.
however ...
the things you want are:
blood and thunder
imp. revenge
thunderstruck
everything else is basically going towards a proper tank spec.
i'll probably be tanking heroics with
http://www.wowhead.com/talent#LGZ0bZIfGdRRobbu
I've taken two tanking specs instead of a DPS one. My second spec, I'm playing around with, and I took all of the self healing abilities I can, plus I glyphed for victory rush (50% increased healing from a VR? Fuck yeah! OP if you ask me, and I expect to see a nerf.) Healers are loving it, and it frees up tons of their heals for DPS fuckups. During some bosses, they can just ignore healing me as long as adds are up, as my victory rushes that proc when a mob dies heals me for more than 50k. Each thunderclap, cleave, and shockwave will proc it on the first boss (stone worm) in GB when adds are out, it's just ridiculous.
I basically put points into everything in the tanking tree, other than improved intervene, and vigilance. The loss of vigilance isn't that significant in five mans. Other than that, 3 into the fury talent that has a 10% chance to heal you when you take a hit (stays pretty consistent when a bunch of adds are on you), and 2 into the arms talent that increases heals received by 6% and self heals by a whopping 20%.
The improved victory rush talent can be damned useful when bosses have an enrage at low health. And the glyph of victory rush has an impact on those procs as well, plus the added self healing from the Arms talent. It definitely helps with healers if they're having some mana issues, too. Pop last stand, and the heals self heals are worth that much more. The situational factor definitely makes it a bit more questionable than some of the others, but you'll be thanking Thrall when it's proccing all the time, and ignoring everything else to spam devestate.
Really, those self healing talents for warrior tanks are just broken right now, and I definitely expect to see victory rush nerfed to hell (at the very least, take away the experience that boss adds are supposed to provide to prevent VR from proccing, a 50-60k self heal every few seconds is 100 times better than any trinket CD available).
And that one talent that increases your chance to block when you parry, Hold the Line I believe. Remember that one. It becomes useless if you can become unhittable. That's the two points for improved victory rush (or whatever you want, even one point into IVR is really good). Threat is such a non issue right now, I'm not worried about the damage talents in fury and arms.
That's my 2 copper.
Have the pleasure of fighting a Blood Death Knight (or any death knight for that matter)? Is it possible to beat them? Can you spell reflect some of their stuff? What is that ability that makes them absorb like 30k damage every 20 damn seconds? I can't find it in their talent tree. I just... ugh.
So there is nothing I can do about it?
At least Arcane mages have no hope against me. lol spell reflected your Arcane Blast for 20k. lol I did it again and your dead.
Because mostly if you're tanking adds and a boss, all the DPS is ignoring the adds. Thus the only things hurting the adds are your bleeds and AOEs. When they die, you get the kill, which procs VR. First boss of Grim batol is a good example of this. Other than the purple trog, the DPS normally can't even SEE the other trogs I'm holing, as the boss is sitting on them, so they don't target them. The stone worm is another. While the DPS focuses on the floaty crystal things, I'll normally have a decent sized pack of the rock spiders scratching at me just waiting to die.