As to healers, they aren't targeting the mob all the time and aren't focusing their attention on it. They are busy doing other shit.
If you suck maybe. The shitty ones will complain that they are too focused on something else. The good ones will put the boss on focus and hit interrupt if they see a cast bar.
If you always have the opportunity to drop everything you are doing to throw out an interrupt, you aren't doing anything terribly challenging.
It's not about focus macros and the like, it's about the fact that most things that need interrupting aren't things you can wait on your next healing wave to finish casting before dealing with.
You should be interrupting as much as possible as a resto shammy, but you are not reliable because there will be times when other shit is more important.
Anything you have to interrupt is going to do far more damage then you were going to heal in a single cast. Cata raids are designed so that people don't die in the span of 1-2 seconds. You do have time to interrupt, and that interrupt is going to save you mana and time from having to heal whatever the fuck it would've done if you hadn't.
Omnotron Council is a good example. When everyone has to pull off of Arcanotron for a little while, a good resto shaman (with spell hit cap) can do a slick job of interrupting the cast and saving on 80k+ healing needing to be done (or a death).
Unless you have some plugin for Grid1 that you can't live without that Grid2 doesn't do.
dammit, I just got done setting up grid1 and didn't even realize this existedj
have they addressed the config issues the forum discussion talks about?
Can anyone who's used both explain what's improved in Grid 2? What does it do that Grid doesn't? Is it better for everything or does it make a couple concessions to Grid? Etc.
Anyone know of a good totem suggestion addon? I just spent like 30 minutes on Curse and didn't find anything that sounded like what I'd like.
Basically there's the buffs map, and a shaman has to switch up which totems to used based on which other classes and specs are in the raid, right? I can't imagine having to manually figure this out every single raid. There must be an addon that can look at the specs of everyone in your raid and figure out what buff totems you should be dropping.
They gave Prot pallies an interrupt yes. An interrupt that will still miss. All tank have similar interrupts now and all of them are on the melee hit chance, but tanks aren't really hit capped. A tank interrupt is still not 100% reliable. They haven't really gone back on that design decision.
Mind Freeze doesn't use melee hit. And they have gone back on it since the complaint was that prot paladins didn't have an interrupt, period, not that they didn't have an interrupt that also couldn't miss.
It will tommorow. DKs will get the "+hit to spells as a passive" treatment so their melee attacks and spells attacks have the same miss chance.
This will obviously effect Mind Freeze, bringing it's miss chance down and putting it in line with other tank interrupts, which can miss unless your tank hit-caps. And at this point in gear levels, hit capping would have to involve a drop in survivability.
Though for tanks I agree it should be, since interrupting and controlling the mobs is part of the job.
For healers, I don't think it's that vital. Healers have more important shit to do then babysit enemy mob casts.
So your justification for stupid design is, in addition to the standard of status quo, the existence of some healers with interrupts?
No, it's that it's not a big deal. Healers not being a reliable interrupt is not a problem. In large part because even if their interrupts could never miss, they still wouldn't be reliable because they don't always have the time to drop everything and throw one out. A resto shaman being able to interrupt is a bonus but is not something you should rely on and you aren't expected to rely on it. As such, it's not a horrible injustice if it misses occasionally.
As to healers, they aren't targeting the mob all the time and aren't focusing their attention on it. They are busy doing other shit.
If you suck maybe. The shitty ones will complain that they are too focused on something else. The good ones will put the boss on focus and hit interrupt if they see a cast bar.
If you always have the opportunity to drop everything you are doing to throw out an interrupt, you aren't doing anything terribly challenging.
It's not about focus macros and the like, it's about the fact that most things that need interrupting aren't things you can wait on your next healing wave to finish casting before dealing with.
You should be interrupting as much as possible as a resto shammy, but you are not reliable because there will be times when other shit is more important.
Anything you have to interrupt is going to do far more damage then you were going to heal in a single cast. Cata raids are designed so that people don't die in the span of 1-2 seconds. You do have time to interrupt, and that interrupt is going to save you mana and time from having to heal whatever the fuck it would've done if you hadn't.
Except there's not always only 1 thing going on. Omnitron is a great example of this actually because you may be healing the guy getting smoked with the flamethrower and not have time to stop and go interrupt the other guy.
And while people may not die in the space of a few seconds, interrupting your heal to interrupt the damage spell can put you behind the curve in either time or mana. The healers, again, have more important shit to do.
And you are making a false comparison here. It's not between healing or interrupting, it's between not healing and interrupting and healing and having one of the DPS (or tanks) interrupt, as is their fucking job.
My guild master suggested making my off-spec Elemental instead of PvP Enhance spec. I decided to take him up on it today.
I don't think I'll ever forgive him. It's like they took the Mage's Fire spec, removed everything fun about it, and added in some weird kinda-functional-but-really-just-irritating mechanics.
HUaghagh. Rabble rabble rabble. We'll see how it goes after I fully gem and enchant my elemental set tomorrow.
Anyone know of a good totem suggestion addon? I just spent like 30 minutes on Curse and didn't find anything that sounded like what I'd like.
Basically there's the buffs map, and a shaman has to switch up which totems to used based on which other classes and specs are in the raid, right? I can't imagine having to manually figure this out every single raid. There must be an addon that can look at the specs of everyone in your raid and figure out what buff totems you should be dropping.
I just do it manually. My basic totems as Resto are Stoneskin, Flametongue, Wrath of Air, glyphed Healing Stream.
If there is no DK or Warrior, I'll replace Stoneskin with Strength of Earth. If there is a Boomkin or Shadow Priest, I'll replace WoA with Windfury. That's it.
So... just started playing a Shaman, and went to check out the WoW wiki... and saw the whole Shaman totem quest thing.
I don't have to worry about questing for totems, they just give 'um to you now, right? Is there anything I need to do outside of just going to the trainer to get totems?
Wishpig on
WARNING: Picture below may cause spontaneous growth of facial hair and/or body hair.
Healing on omnitron and trying to interrupt/purge would be very painful on 25 man, especially when there are qualified dps who should be doing that considering that it is not a race to down them.
The nature of 10m raids, depending on your composition, can mean that yes, as the third healer with your tank/melee having to move due to arcanotron pools or toxitron clouds/slimes that yes, it is critical that you throw out an interrupt on Arcanotron to get him out of the pool he just laid under himself and other healers exist in your raid that no, no one's going to eat shit in the 1.6 seconds it takes you to windshear and recast whatever you were casting. Resto also has two wonderful instant cast spells (riptide, unleash elements) that you can use if you're expecting to have to use wind shear shortly so that you're not actually interrupting your healing at all.
Many, many situations during the Cho'Gall fight in 10m can demand that you drop whatever the fuck you're doing and wind shear, both with worships and with eyestalks in phase 2. If you feel that's simply "too much" for you to be expected to do, sorry, but you're a subpar player and your raid is poorer from it.
The nature of 10m raids, depending on your composition, can mean that yes, as the third healer with your tank/melee having to move due to arcanotron pools or toxitron clouds/slimes that yes, it is critical that you throw out an interrupt on Arcanotron to get him out of the pool he just laid under himself and other healers exist in your raid that no, no one's going to eat shit in the 1.6 seconds it takes you to windshear and recast whatever you were casting. Resto also has two wonderful instant cast spells (riptide, unleash elements) that you can use if you're expecting to have to use wind shear shortly so that you're not actually interrupting your healing at all.
Many, many situations during the Cho'Gall fight in 10m can demand that you drop whatever the fuck you're doing and wind shear, both with worships and with eyestalks in phase 2. If you feel that's simply "too much" for you to be expected to do, sorry, but you're a subpar player and your raid is poorer from it.
So then blizzard made interrupts based on hit because...? I mean if a "par" healer is expected to reliably interrupt casts then he/she should stack hit? Thats obviously incorrect. Or spec out of ancestral swiftness to get hit from spirit? Maybe, but then that would be consider a "sub-par" spec that a "par" healer wouldn't use.
I don't think the design philosphy is based around bringing the one healing class that can interrupt to a 10 man and expecting them to interrupt. Its far to nuianced. If you can help out on interrupts, should you? Yes. Should you be expected to reliably? No.
So then blizzard made interrupts based on hit because...?
They're fucking idiots and can't understand how drastically this effects 10m balance.
I mean if a "par" healer is expected to reliably interrupt casts then he/she should stack hit? Thats obviously incorrect. Or spec out of ancestral swiftness to get hit from spirit? Maybe, but then that would be consider a "sub-par" spec that a "par" healer wouldn't use.
I'm not saying every resto shaman should spec into elemental precision or expect that every interrupt they cast will land. A par healer should be capable of casting their interrupt while managing the rest of their shit during a fight. One more straw shouldn't break your back.
I don't think the design philosphy is based around bringing the one healing class that can interrupt to a 10 man and expecting them to interrupt. Its far to nuianced. If you can help out on interrupts, should you? Yes. Should you be expected to reliably? No.
It's not about making sure you have a resto shaman who can interrupt. It's about understanding how poorly Blizzard has dealt with 10m raid balance (a good portion of the heroics are still flat out broken) and that as a consequence of what classes you may or may not have or situations that do or do not arise that yes, being aware and capable of interrupting is too powerful a tool not to be using.
My guild master suggested making my off-spec Elemental instead of PvP Enhance spec. I decided to take him up on it today.
I don't think I'll ever forgive him. It's like they took the Mage's Fire spec, removed everything fun about it, and added in some weird kinda-functional-but-really-just-irritating mechanics.
HUaghagh. Rabble rabble rabble. We'll see how it goes after I fully gem and enchant my elemental set tomorrow.
I went 1-85 as Elemental. It was fun enough (especially like sub-80 where Lava Burst was like lol1shot). I decided a week or so back to switch to Enhancement for shits and giggles and because I've collected most of a decent gear set by saving up from dungeons and the like.
And wow, it's like night and day. I don't know if this patch fixed anything, but Elemental is so fucking gimped in soloing compared to Enhancement, it's not even funny. My DPS went down a bit in Heroics/Raids because my gear was better, but I tear shit apart when doing my dailies now.
My guild master suggested making my off-spec Elemental instead of PvP Enhance spec. I decided to take him up on it today.
I don't think I'll ever forgive him. It's like they took the Mage's Fire spec, removed everything fun about it, and added in some weird kinda-functional-but-really-just-irritating mechanics.
HUaghagh. Rabble rabble rabble. We'll see how it goes after I fully gem and enchant my elemental set tomorrow.
I went 1-85 as Elemental. It was fun enough (especially like sub-80 where Lava Burst was like lol1shot). I decided a week or so back to switch to Enhancement for shits and giggles and because I've collected most of a decent gear set by saving up from dungeons and the like.
And wow, it's like night and day. I don't know if this patch fixed anything, but Elemental is so fucking gimped in soloing compared to Enhancement, it's not even funny. My DPS went down a bit in Heroics/Raids because my gear was better, but I tear shit apart when doing my dailies now.
Yeah I switched over to enhance as my offspec as opposed to elemental, it just feels great in comparison. However, I liked pvping on elemental much better. Whats that Eye of the Storm pvpers? Trying to grab the flag? Enjoy being tossed off a cliff because of thunderstorm.
My guild master suggested making my off-spec Elemental instead of PvP Enhance spec. I decided to take him up on it today.
I don't think I'll ever forgive him. It's like they took the Mage's Fire spec, removed everything fun about it, and added in some weird kinda-functional-but-really-just-irritating mechanics.
HUaghagh. Rabble rabble rabble. We'll see how it goes after I fully gem and enchant my elemental set tomorrow.
I went 1-85 as Elemental. It was fun enough (especially like sub-80 where Lava Burst was like lol1shot). I decided a week or so back to switch to Enhancement for shits and giggles and because I've collected most of a decent gear set by saving up from dungeons and the like.
And wow, it's like night and day. I don't know if this patch fixed anything, but Elemental is so fucking gimped in soloing compared to Enhancement, it's not even funny. My DPS went down a bit in Heroics/Raids because my gear was better, but I tear shit apart when doing my dailies now.
Yeah I switched over to enhance as my offspec as opposed to elemental, it just feels great in comparison. However, I liked pvping on elemental much better. Whats that Eye of the Storm pvpers? Trying to grab the flag? Enjoy being tossed off a cliff because of thunderstorm.
That's the only reason I went Elemental.
There's nothing better then people being like "Lumber Mill is lost" and I just run up, Thunderstorm all 7 Alliance scum off the cliff and then recap the base solo.
Not gonna find a lot of healers who'd turn down a 300 INT trinket either, and the haste is better than mastery at least. I'd probably reforge it to crit if I were an alchemist :P
The nature of 10m raids, depending on your composition, can mean that yes, as the third healer with your tank/melee having to move due to arcanotron pools or toxitron clouds/slimes that yes, it is critical that you throw out an interrupt on Arcanotron to get him out of the pool he just laid under himself and other healers exist in your raid that no, no one's going to eat shit in the 1.6 seconds it takes you to windshear and recast whatever you were casting. Resto also has two wonderful instant cast spells (riptide, unleash elements) that you can use if you're expecting to have to use wind shear shortly so that you're not actually interrupting your healing at all.
Many, many situations during the Cho'Gall fight in 10m can demand that you drop whatever the fuck you're doing and wind shear, both with worships and with eyestalks in phase 2. If you feel that's simply "too much" for you to be expected to do, sorry, but you're a subpar player and your raid is poorer from it.
So then blizzard made interrupts based on hit because...?
Nearsighted design. Any arguments based on status quo are pretty terrible.
The new alchemy trinkets are better than any 346 trinket, so until you have access to two other epic trinkets, there's no consideration. I'm not sure how they stack up against the buffed TB exalted faction trinkets.
The nature of 10m raids, depending on your composition, can mean that yes, as the third healer with your tank/melee having to move due to arcanotron pools or toxitron clouds/slimes that yes, it is critical that you throw out an interrupt on Arcanotron to get him out of the pool he just laid under himself and other healers exist in your raid that no, no one's going to eat shit in the 1.6 seconds it takes you to windshear and recast whatever you were casting. Resto also has two wonderful instant cast spells (riptide, unleash elements) that you can use if you're expecting to have to use wind shear shortly so that you're not actually interrupting your healing at all.
Many, many situations during the Cho'Gall fight in 10m can demand that you drop whatever the fuck you're doing and wind shear, both with worships and with eyestalks in phase 2. If you feel that's simply "too much" for you to be expected to do, sorry, but you're a subpar player and your raid is poorer from it.
So then blizzard made interrupts based on hit because...?
Nearsighted design. Any arguments based on status quo are pretty terrible.
The new alchemy trinkets are better than any 346 trinket, so until you have access to two other epic trinkets, there's no consideration. I'm not sure how they stack up against the buffed TB exalted faction trinkets.
Its been this way forever, so at what point does the status quo discount apply? In fact, if you take Blizzard at their word, i.e., bring the player not the class, then you shouldn't need an extra interrupt from a healer as Shamans are the only healers with one (can holy pallys get one or is that part of the other talent trees?).
Also, Blizzard could simply give spell hit to resto shamans through resto talents so that their interrupts would be hit capped, just tack it on to riptide or something equally as deep in the resto tree. I mean Blizzard is giving hit to dks as a base part of their class.
All of this evidence suggests that Blizzard made a conscious decision not to make interrupts automatically hit. Where they thought that hit was vital (most recently dks) they made a change in the first content patch of the expansion. That design philopshy doesn't sound that nearsighted to me.
So then blizzard made interrupts based on hit because...?
Nearsighted design. Any arguments based on status quo are pretty terrible.
The new alchemy trinkets are better than any 346 trinket, so until you have access to two other epic trinkets, there's no consideration. I'm not sure how they stack up against the buffed TB exalted faction trinkets.
Its been this way forever, so at what point does the status quo discount apply?
Considering rage wasn't normalized, hunters had mana, taunts could miss, int was not a throughput stat, gear from smaller raids was inferior to gear from larger raids, [insert any number of things that someone might have made a status quo argument for one year ago that was changed] from vanilla retail until Cata, I'd say probably never.
In fact, if you take Blizzard at their word, i.e., bring the player not the class, then you shouldn't need an extra interrupt from a healer as Shamans are the only healers with one (can holy pallys get one or is that part of the other talent trees?).
The first thing you have to realize is that statement isn't a catch all for "no class should be able to do anything unique." Healing priests can CC undead, resto druids can root things. It is not at all unreasonable for a resto shaman to use that interrupt that the entire class has if he can manage it. Holy paladins also have an interrupt now, although it's melee range only.
Also, Blizzard could simply give spell hit to resto shamans through resto talents so that their interrupts would be hit capped, just tack it on to riptide or something equally as deep in the resto tree. I mean Blizzard is giving hit to dks as a base part of their class.
They never explained their rationale there, but that could have been them deciding that Virulence felt far too mandatory and core to a physical DPS class that also happens to have some primary abilities classified as spells, and that it just made more sense for that spell hit to be built into the class (like the 100% spell crit bonus passive). DKs have more spell hit table abilities than Mind Freeze, after all.
All of this evidence suggests that Blizzard made a conscious decision not to make interrupts automatically hit. Where they thought that hit was vital (most recently dks) they made a change in the first content patch of the expansion. That design philopshy doesn't sound that nearsighted to me.
It looks like it actually suggests that utility abilities like interrupts and CCs just work like normal abilities since that happens to be how things were set up back in the dark ages of vanilla, and that they have limited time to consider/fix every problem with the game.
Again, as I already mentioned, it makes no sense for hit rating to be more than a DPS stat. Having it be a barrier to entry stat is stupid, clumsy, vanilla-esque design, especially if they follow through on their chatter about higher tier raids requiring more hit (and expertise?)
The absolute hardcore guilds may make their healers attempt to interrupt, but blowing mana on something that's not a heal when you have upwards of -17- DPS who can also do it, for less opportunity cost, more effectively, is a questionable decision at best and wrongheaded thinking at worst.
I don't raid hardcore enough to be part of the kind of culture that asks that of a healer, and I'm pretty happy about that.
You're not going to have DPS on Arcanotron during shields, and it's preferable not to have any on Halfus before the drakes are down if you can avoid it. 10 mans don't have 17 DPS either.
So then blizzard made interrupts based on hit because...?
Nearsighted design. Any arguments based on status quo are pretty terrible.
The new alchemy trinkets are better than any 346 trinket, so until you have access to two other epic trinkets, there's no consideration. I'm not sure how they stack up against the buffed TB exalted faction trinkets.
Its been this way forever, so at what point does the status quo discount apply?
Considering rage wasn't normalized, hunters had mana, taunts could miss, int was not a throughput stat, gear from smaller raids was inferior to gear from larger raids, [insert any number of things that someone might have made a status quo argument for one year ago that was changed] from vanilla retail until Cata, I'd say probably never.
In fact, if you take Blizzard at their word, i.e., bring the player not the class, then you shouldn't need an extra interrupt from a healer as Shamans are the only healers with one (can holy pallys get one or is that part of the other talent trees?).
The first thing you have to realize is that statement isn't a catch all for "no class should be able to do anything unique." Healing priests can CC undead, resto druids can root things. It is not at all unreasonable for a resto shaman to use that interrupt that the entire class has if he can manage it. Holy paladins also have an interrupt now, although it's melee range only.
Also, Blizzard could simply give spell hit to resto shamans through resto talents so that their interrupts would be hit capped, just tack it on to riptide or something equally as deep in the resto tree. I mean Blizzard is giving hit to dks as a base part of their class.
They never explained their rationale there, but that could have been them deciding that Virulence felt far too mandatory and core to a physical DPS class that also happens to have some primary abilities classified as spells, and that it just made more sense for that spell hit to be built into the class (like the 100% spell crit bonus passive). DKs have more spell hit table abilities than Mind Freeze, after all.
All of this evidence suggests that Blizzard made a conscious decision not to make interrupts automatically hit. Where they thought that hit was vital (most recently dks) they made a change in the first content patch of the expansion. That design philopshy doesn't sound that nearsighted to me.
It looks like it actually suggests that utility abilities like interrupts and CCs just work like normal abilities since that happens to be how things were set up back in the dark ages of vanilla, and that they have limited time to consider/fix every problem with the game.
Again, as I already mentioned, it makes no sense for hit rating to be more than a DPS stat. Having it be a barrier to entry stat is stupid, clumsy, vanilla-esque design, especially if they follow through on their chatter about higher tier raids requiring more hit (and expertise?)
Warriors had rage normalized at one point during TBC and Blizzard reverted the change, which I think makes the status quo argument weaker as normalizing rage was something that Blizzard demonstrated they wanted to change but couldn't properly effecutate it. It was evidence that something may not have been working as intended.
Regardless, as much as some of these decisions seem silly in retrospect (due to gear itemization, etc), the people who designed the mechanics didn't do so arbitrarily and strived to acomplish a specific goal. The fact that something has remained for a long time in the game actually suggests that it is accomplishing that goal even if you don't agree with it or it seems clumsy
So, unless you are arguing the code or underlying mechanics prevent a change from going through, the status quo should act as good evidence that the design philosphy for something is being advanced by a particular mechanic. Obviously the "status quo" argument should increase in strength as time goes, being reduced in strenght by fundamental changes to the game (such as expansions, redesigned abilities).
Yes, things do change, such as hunters no longer requiring mana and instead using focus. But, there was no reason that change could not have been affected before hand. So presumably hunters using mana accomplished some design goal (i.e. providing a finite resource that had to be managed). The finite resource obstacle has been in the game since vanilla, most notably for healers. Could blizzard change healers to a focus based system? Yes, but in the current design structure healers conserving mana is a key part of end game content.
So in effect, the status quo can act as good support for an argument. Just because something is later negated by a change the overall system it doesn't retroactively undermine the support for an argument made before.
Finally, at the end of the day, in the abscence of other information or data, the current state of the game should be taken as the most up to date expression of the designers goals. Barring test patches or direct blizzard reposnes, it is the most accurate piece of information showing the designers goals and philosphy. Therefore, argument relying on the status quo to show the designers' philosphy should not be causally discounted offhand as "terrible."
The design is that interrupts are just like any other spell.
This isn't a big deal for DPS because they all try to hit cap anyway.
For tanks, it's usually not a big deal (after today's patch) but they probably should get a talent or something to make their interrupts not miss since the game does seem to assume a tank can help interrupt.
With healers, the game is designed assuming they don't interrupt. Or, rather, it assumes they aren't a reliable one. Only 1 healer can interrupt anyway. That a Resto Shammy can interrupt at all is a perk. The fact that it sometimes misses isn't a fault because the game isn't designed for that Resto Shammy interrupt to need to hit. When it does, it's nice. When it doesn't, it's not a big deal because if you were relying on your healers to interrupt something that was a big deal, you've failed from the start.
The only real salient point here is one JAEF made about 10 man raid design having become extremely composition dependent. But that's an issue that goes far beyond 1 healer spec having an interrupt that can miss.
For tanks, it's usually not a big deal (after today's patch) but they probably should get a talent or something to make their interrupts not miss since the game does seem to assume a tank can help interrupt.
In 10m this is a huge deal. Tanks have to sacrifice a large amount of mitigation to hit cap since, unless you have the composition to support it and/or the fight doesn't penalize you for it, they are forced to act as a primary interrupt.
That a Resto Shammy can interrupt at all is a perk. The fact that it sometimes misses isn't a fault because the game isn't designed for that Resto Shammy interrupt to need to hit. When it does, it's nice. When it doesn't, it's not a big deal because if you were relying on your healers to interrupt something that was a big deal, you've failed from the start.
I don't think anyone realistically expects to have 100% interrupt dependability from a resto shaman, but not making the fullest use of a ranged, off-GCD, 6-second CD interrupt that lands over 4/5ths of the time is poor play.
For tanks, it's usually not a big deal (after today's patch) but they probably should get a talent or something to make their interrupts not miss since the game does seem to assume a tank can help interrupt.
In 10m this is a huge deal. Tanks have to sacrifice a large amount of mitigation to hit cap since, unless you have the composition to support it and/or the fight doesn't penalize you for it, they are forced to act as a primary interrupt.
Agreed. Which is why I think tanks should have some talent to give them interrupts that don't miss. Especially for 10 mans where composition and dividing up tasks is already such a big issue.
That a Resto Shammy can interrupt at all is a perk. The fact that it sometimes misses isn't a fault because the game isn't designed for that Resto Shammy interrupt to need to hit. When it does, it's nice. When it doesn't, it's not a big deal because if you were relying on your healers to interrupt something that was a big deal, you've failed from the start.
I don't think anyone realistically expects to have 100% interrupt dependability from a resto shaman, but not making the fullest use of a ranged, off-GCD, 6-second CD interrupt that lands over 4/5ths of the time is poor play.
Agreed. You should interrupt if you can. But it's not reliable and it's not supposed to be. It's not something you should be or should be forced to count on.
And seriously, what's the point in going through the effort of editing your post to add this but then not actually typing the 1 extra word it takes to say which other class can? That's just geesy.
And seriously, what's the point in going through the effort of editing your post to add this but then not actually typing the 1 extra word it takes to say which other class can? That's just geesy.
And seriously, what's the point in going through the effort of editing your post to add this but then not actually typing the 1 extra word it takes to say which other class can? That's just geesy.
They really need to fix the mat costs for the blue 525 items. They are fucking ridiculous.
I was looking at getting some better 1H weapons for my Enhancement Shaman and one of the best non-epics out there are actually crafted: Elementium Gutslicer
One-Hand Axe
745 - 1385 Damage Speed 2.60
(409.6 damage per second)
+129 Agility
+194 Stamina
Durability 90 / 90
Requires Level 85
Item Level 346
Equip: Increases your hit rating by 86
Equip: Increases your mastery rating by 86
Problem is, it takes 4 Hardened Elementium, 5 Truegold and 3 Chaos Orbs per weapon. That's fucking ridiculous. The mat costs on it's own make it barely cheaper then buying a fucking BoE epic off the AH.
I don't buy this arguement that r.shaman interupts are ok atm.
Interupts are binary. You can't assign someone a role who may or may not be able to do something, because right now, you get punished pretty heavily for failing to interupt. Interupting is part of a r.shaman's utiliy.
Plus, there's 5 talent points to spend in the resto tree (Focused Insight and Telluric Currents) that are offensive spells. It's poor design that you have talents that have a large investment that then won't work all the time.
Don't tell me that those are to help with levelling, because with the cost of dual spec and how deep the latter is in the resto tree means you'd have to be some kind of sadist to level up as resto.
The arguement about whether r.shaman should not be able to interupt all the time is void anyway, because it's possible to spec so that you can. It's just that the route you have to take to get a signature spell to work, is bloody stupid.
There is zero / zip reason, why Telluric Currents should not have a +hit component to make interupts / cc's hit all the time.
(Am I right in saying that lacking +hit is the reason why all my CC's break early?)
Redcoat-13 on
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I suppose it depends on your 10 man composition, but I'd hardly call resto shaman interrupt much of a concern. I think I've missed once so far and it's hardly required I interrupt at all. Of course, if you are The Interrupter for your raid for some weird reason, I'm all for 100% hit chance.
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Can anyone who's used both explain what's improved in Grid 2? What does it do that Grid doesn't? Is it better for everything or does it make a couple concessions to Grid? Etc.
Basically there's the buffs map, and a shaman has to switch up which totems to used based on which other classes and specs are in the raid, right? I can't imagine having to manually figure this out every single raid. There must be an addon that can look at the specs of everyone in your raid and figure out what buff totems you should be dropping.
It will tommorow. DKs will get the "+hit to spells as a passive" treatment so their melee attacks and spells attacks have the same miss chance.
This will obviously effect Mind Freeze, bringing it's miss chance down and putting it in line with other tank interrupts, which can miss unless your tank hit-caps. And at this point in gear levels, hit capping would have to involve a drop in survivability.
No, it's that it's not a big deal. Healers not being a reliable interrupt is not a problem. In large part because even if their interrupts could never miss, they still wouldn't be reliable because they don't always have the time to drop everything and throw one out. A resto shaman being able to interrupt is a bonus but is not something you should rely on and you aren't expected to rely on it. As such, it's not a horrible injustice if it misses occasionally.
Except there's not always only 1 thing going on. Omnitron is a great example of this actually because you may be healing the guy getting smoked with the flamethrower and not have time to stop and go interrupt the other guy.
And while people may not die in the space of a few seconds, interrupting your heal to interrupt the damage spell can put you behind the curve in either time or mana. The healers, again, have more important shit to do.
And you are making a false comparison here. It's not between healing or interrupting, it's between not healing and interrupting and healing and having one of the DPS (or tanks) interrupt, as is their fucking job.
I don't think I'll ever forgive him. It's like they took the Mage's Fire spec, removed everything fun about it, and added in some weird kinda-functional-but-really-just-irritating mechanics.
HUaghagh. Rabble rabble rabble. We'll see how it goes after I fully gem and enchant my elemental set tomorrow.
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I think I can certainly handle normals now.
thanks thread.
also I look badass now. and also also, I totally forgot to pay attention to non-mail caster stuff if it has better stats.
I just do it manually. My basic totems as Resto are Stoneskin, Flametongue, Wrath of Air, glyphed Healing Stream.
If there is no DK or Warrior, I'll replace Stoneskin with Strength of Earth. If there is a Boomkin or Shadow Priest, I'll replace WoA with Windfury. That's it.
I don't have to worry about questing for totems, they just give 'um to you now, right? Is there anything I need to do outside of just going to the trainer to get totems?
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Thats AWESOME 'cause WoW wiki made the old way seem so convoluted.
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Many, many situations during the Cho'Gall fight in 10m can demand that you drop whatever the fuck you're doing and wind shear, both with worships and with eyestalks in phase 2. If you feel that's simply "too much" for you to be expected to do, sorry, but you're a subpar player and your raid is poorer from it.
So then blizzard made interrupts based on hit because...? I mean if a "par" healer is expected to reliably interrupt casts then he/she should stack hit? Thats obviously incorrect. Or spec out of ancestral swiftness to get hit from spirit? Maybe, but then that would be consider a "sub-par" spec that a "par" healer wouldn't use.
I don't think the design philosphy is based around bringing the one healing class that can interrupt to a 10 man and expecting them to interrupt. Its far to nuianced. If you can help out on interrupts, should you? Yes. Should you be expected to reliably? No.
I'm not saying every resto shaman should spec into elemental precision or expect that every interrupt they cast will land. A par healer should be capable of casting their interrupt while managing the rest of their shit during a fight. One more straw shouldn't break your back.
It's not about making sure you have a resto shaman who can interrupt. It's about understanding how poorly Blizzard has dealt with 10m raid balance (a good portion of the heroics are still flat out broken) and that as a consequence of what classes you may or may not have or situations that do or do not arise that yes, being aware and capable of interrupting is too powerful a tool not to be using.
I went 1-85 as Elemental. It was fun enough (especially like sub-80 where Lava Burst was like lol1shot). I decided a week or so back to switch to Enhancement for shits and giggles and because I've collected most of a decent gear set by saving up from dungeons and the like.
And wow, it's like night and day. I don't know if this patch fixed anything, but Elemental is so fucking gimped in soloing compared to Enhancement, it's not even funny. My DPS went down a bit in Heroics/Raids because my gear was better, but I tear shit apart when doing my dailies now.
Yeah I switched over to enhance as my offspec as opposed to elemental, it just feels great in comparison. However, I liked pvping on elemental much better. Whats that Eye of the Storm pvpers? Trying to grab the flag? Enjoy being tossed off a cliff because of thunderstorm.
That's the only reason I went Elemental.
There's nothing better then people being like "Lumber Mill is lost" and I just run up, Thunderstorm all 7 Alliance scum off the cliff and then recap the base solo.
I get tingly just thinking about it.
Quicksilver Alchemist Stone
Vibrant Alchemist Stone
How good are these things for healing or dps?
The new alchemy trinkets are better than any 346 trinket, so until you have access to two other epic trinkets, there's no consideration. I'm not sure how they stack up against the buffed TB exalted faction trinkets.
Its been this way forever, so at what point does the status quo discount apply? In fact, if you take Blizzard at their word, i.e., bring the player not the class, then you shouldn't need an extra interrupt from a healer as Shamans are the only healers with one (can holy pallys get one or is that part of the other talent trees?).
Also, Blizzard could simply give spell hit to resto shamans through resto talents so that their interrupts would be hit capped, just tack it on to riptide or something equally as deep in the resto tree. I mean Blizzard is giving hit to dks as a base part of their class.
All of this evidence suggests that Blizzard made a conscious decision not to make interrupts automatically hit. Where they thought that hit was vital (most recently dks) they made a change in the first content patch of the expansion. That design philopshy doesn't sound that nearsighted to me.
The first thing you have to realize is that statement isn't a catch all for "no class should be able to do anything unique." Healing priests can CC undead, resto druids can root things. It is not at all unreasonable for a resto shaman to use that interrupt that the entire class has if he can manage it. Holy paladins also have an interrupt now, although it's melee range only.
They never explained their rationale there, but that could have been them deciding that Virulence felt far too mandatory and core to a physical DPS class that also happens to have some primary abilities classified as spells, and that it just made more sense for that spell hit to be built into the class (like the 100% spell crit bonus passive). DKs have more spell hit table abilities than Mind Freeze, after all.
It looks like it actually suggests that utility abilities like interrupts and CCs just work like normal abilities since that happens to be how things were set up back in the dark ages of vanilla, and that they have limited time to consider/fix every problem with the game.
Again, as I already mentioned, it makes no sense for hit rating to be more than a DPS stat. Having it be a barrier to entry stat is stupid, clumsy, vanilla-esque design, especially if they follow through on their chatter about higher tier raids requiring more hit (and expertise?)
I don't raid hardcore enough to be part of the kind of culture that asks that of a healer, and I'm pretty happy about that.
Warriors had rage normalized at one point during TBC and Blizzard reverted the change, which I think makes the status quo argument weaker as normalizing rage was something that Blizzard demonstrated they wanted to change but couldn't properly effecutate it. It was evidence that something may not have been working as intended.
Regardless, as much as some of these decisions seem silly in retrospect (due to gear itemization, etc), the people who designed the mechanics didn't do so arbitrarily and strived to acomplish a specific goal. The fact that something has remained for a long time in the game actually suggests that it is accomplishing that goal even if you don't agree with it or it seems clumsy
So, unless you are arguing the code or underlying mechanics prevent a change from going through, the status quo should act as good evidence that the design philosphy for something is being advanced by a particular mechanic. Obviously the "status quo" argument should increase in strength as time goes, being reduced in strenght by fundamental changes to the game (such as expansions, redesigned abilities).
Yes, things do change, such as hunters no longer requiring mana and instead using focus. But, there was no reason that change could not have been affected before hand. So presumably hunters using mana accomplished some design goal (i.e. providing a finite resource that had to be managed). The finite resource obstacle has been in the game since vanilla, most notably for healers. Could blizzard change healers to a focus based system? Yes, but in the current design structure healers conserving mana is a key part of end game content.
So in effect, the status quo can act as good support for an argument. Just because something is later negated by a change the overall system it doesn't retroactively undermine the support for an argument made before.
Finally, at the end of the day, in the abscence of other information or data, the current state of the game should be taken as the most up to date expression of the designers goals. Barring test patches or direct blizzard reposnes, it is the most accurate piece of information showing the designers goals and philosphy. Therefore, argument relying on the status quo to show the designers' philosphy should not be causally discounted offhand as "terrible."
This isn't a big deal for DPS because they all try to hit cap anyway.
For tanks, it's usually not a big deal (after today's patch) but they probably should get a talent or something to make their interrupts not miss since the game does seem to assume a tank can help interrupt.
With healers, the game is designed assuming they don't interrupt. Or, rather, it assumes they aren't a reliable one. Only 1 healer can interrupt anyway. That a Resto Shammy can interrupt at all is a perk. The fact that it sometimes misses isn't a fault because the game isn't designed for that Resto Shammy interrupt to need to hit. When it does, it's nice. When it doesn't, it's not a big deal because if you were relying on your healers to interrupt something that was a big deal, you've failed from the start.
The only real salient point here is one JAEF made about 10 man raid design having become extremely composition dependent. But that's an issue that goes far beyond 1 healer spec having an interrupt that can miss.
Just keep ignoring the fact that hit rating is a barrier to entry stat rather than a DPS stat as well.
Edit:
Incorrect.
I don't think anyone realistically expects to have 100% interrupt dependability from a resto shaman, but not making the fullest use of a ranged, off-GCD, 6-second CD interrupt that lands over 4/5ths of the time is poor play.
Agreed. Which is why I think tanks should have some talent to give them interrupts that don't miss. Especially for 10 mans where composition and dividing up tasks is already such a big issue.
Agreed. You should interrupt if you can. But it's not reliable and it's not supposed to be. It's not something you should be or should be forced to count on.
Yes, yes, you hate the idea of spells missing. Blah blah blah. We all know this already.
It's as close to a fundamental part of the game design as you can get. All spells/abilities can miss. Damage, CC, interrupts, etc.
What's the other?
And seriously, what's the point in going through the effort of editing your post to add this but then not actually typing the 1 extra word it takes to say which other class can? That's just geesy.
Yeah, you guys should just raid in 25s. Sure, we have some homers, but it's a much better raiding format overall.
Taunts can't miss. Some AoEs can't miss (consecration, D&D, blood boil I think, shockwave). That's fundamental all right.
Is it as geesy as not reading the thread?
I have nothing for or against hit/miss as a function of the games combat system. It just is. It's the way the game works and has always worked.
Taunts don't miss because they are used by a role that doesn't necessarily hit cap and are 100% necessary to do it's job.
None of this applies to CC or interrupts, which are either used by roles that hit cap anyway or aren't a necessary part of that classes role.
Wait, a melee range interrupt for a healer is your rebuttal?
I thought you were actually serious . That's an even sillier response then I could have come up with.
I was looking at getting some better 1H weapons for my Enhancement Shaman and one of the best non-epics out there are actually crafted:
Elementium Gutslicer
Problem is, it takes 4 Hardened Elementium, 5 Truegold and 3 Chaos Orbs per weapon. That's fucking ridiculous. The mat costs on it's own make it barely cheaper then buying a fucking BoE epic off the AH.
Interupts are binary. You can't assign someone a role who may or may not be able to do something, because right now, you get punished pretty heavily for failing to interupt. Interupting is part of a r.shaman's utiliy.
Plus, there's 5 talent points to spend in the resto tree (Focused Insight and Telluric Currents) that are offensive spells. It's poor design that you have talents that have a large investment that then won't work all the time.
Don't tell me that those are to help with levelling, because with the cost of dual spec and how deep the latter is in the resto tree means you'd have to be some kind of sadist to level up as resto.
The arguement about whether r.shaman should not be able to interupt all the time is void anyway, because it's possible to spec so that you can. It's just that the route you have to take to get a signature spell to work, is bloody stupid.
There is zero / zip reason, why Telluric Currents should not have a +hit component to make interupts / cc's hit all the time.
(Am I right in saying that lacking +hit is the reason why all my CC's break early?)
well I stopped ignoring it when it was a difference between no spirit and a decent amount of spirit. I am just talking quest/rep rewards at this point