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PAX East 2012/Anime Boston overlap

flarghflargh Registered User
edited April 2011 in PAX Archive
Is it true that PAX East 2012 will come to the BCEC on Easter weekend? That's when the New England Anime Society puts on Anime Boston at the Hynes. I'd be really sad if I had to miss PAX next year.

flargh on
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Posts

  • DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist silly fellow, silly fellow, is against me Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    The Anime convention hasn't always been on Easter weekend. Have they scheduled a time yet for 2012? I can't find anything on their website.

  • CARTER-A259CARTER-A259 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    AB is usually on an Easter Weekend.

    And yes, this is more or less predatory con scheduling by the PAX organizers. Which is somewhat unfortunate, since AB is a non-profit con, and PAX East isn't.

  • KrisstaKrissta New HampshireRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Man, I really hope they consider changing dates. Between Easter weekend, and AB being the same weekend, that's really not cool. :(

  • CARTER-A259CARTER-A259 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Unfortunately, dates are usually locked-in contract wise years in advance, so if AB were to move dates, it would cost them money, and since AB is non-profit, they basically use the money from attendance to pay for the con the next year, so the con as a whole would suffer.

    I just hope the attendance at AB doesn't get significantly hit next year, otherwise it could very well kill the con.

  • Mike TooleMike Toole Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    And yes, this is more or less predatory con scheduling by the PAX organizers. Which is somewhat unfortunate, since AB is a non-profit con, and PAX East isn't.

    Double-booking like this isn't any better for PAXEAST than it is for Anime Boston. Mistakes like this happen because the booking window in the spring is obscenely small, and consequently multi-year deals are signed way in advance to head off the possibility of "losing your spot" and having to schedule earlier in the spring when the weather/attendance might be crappier.

    The culprit here is the BCC, who should've noticed the double booking issue and worked with their calendar to get one of these two moved. My solution to the quandry? I'm doing both. I enjoy both cons but skew towards AB, where I'm a featured panelist, so I'll get a 3-day membership at AB but may end up with a Saturday or Sunday-only badge for PAXEAST. In any case, I doubt this mistake will happen again.

  • CARTER-A259CARTER-A259 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I'm actually probably going to attend both as well, maybe spend my time at PAX during exhibit hall hours, then head over to AB since the nightlife seems to be a bit more vibrant there.

    Also gives me PLENTY of opportunity for hotel discounts, but by god, the city is going to be Geeksville for that weekend.

    It actually wouldn't surprise me if the MCCA did it on purpose either. Word on the street is they've been wanting AB dead, or smaller, for years.

  • ExplosionExplosion Registered User
    edited March 2011
    It actually wouldn't surprise me if the MCCA did it on purpose either. Word on the street is they've been wanting AB dead, or smaller, for years.

    That doesn't really make sense. If they didn't want to host AB, they could just refuse to run the event at their venues.

    PAX has enough overlap with AB that they certainly don't want to run the same weekend. They want to keep their vendors happy, and there's certainly overlap for the vendors.

    Strange that the schedules are bumping around so much. Easter is April 8 next year, which is 3 weeks later than PAX this year, and 2 weeks earlier than AB this year.

  • CARTER-A259CARTER-A259 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Well, the going rumor is that there's an event that wants the Hynes, and the MCCA wants to downsize AB, and get a third convention (of some sort) into the Hynes.

    Also, its no surprise that the generally younger demographic tends to be a bit more destructive with property at the Hynes and Prudential Center. If they could replace AB with a similarly sized convention, but an older demographic, they'd come out making more money, since they wouldn't be doing so much for maintenance.

  • ROFLROFL Registered User
    edited March 2011
    frankly, between AB and PAX, I'd do PAX. I've found AB to be more and more full of immaturity, drama, and elitism. There isn't the same feeling of unity like there is at PAX. It's just different. And I'd rather be at a place where there's always something to do and not where stuck-up 10 year olds are going to think they're tough shit and boss people around because they're dressed like a budget Sora. (happened before)

    If they're scheduled together, AB won't suffer too much anyway. Considering PAX isn't all cosplayers and has a LOT of non-cosplayer, non-anime attendees, it should be fine. PAX may take a small hit, but I don't think it'll be too big a problem. I'd be going.

  • CARTER-A259CARTER-A259 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    From what I've heard from a few individuals in the AB staff, this is no accident.

  • MaiuMaiu Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Well, the going rumor is that there's an event that wants the Hynes, and the MCCA wants to downsize AB, and get a third convention (of some sort) into the Hynes.

    Also, its no surprise that the generally younger demographic tends to be a bit more destructive with property at the Hynes and Prudential Center. If they could replace AB with a similarly sized convention, but an older demographic, they'd come out making more money, since they wouldn't be doing so much for maintenance.

    I went to AB its opening year, and I do remember them screaming "Don't put stickers on the walls!!"

  • DragonPupDragonPup Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    This sounds like a pretty rude move by PAX. AnimeBoston's pretty much been that same weekend since before PaxEast ever happened.

    "I was there, I was there, the day Horus slew the Emperor." -Cpt Garviel Loken

    Currently painting: Slowly [flickr]
  • SlayerPathSlayerPath Registered User
    edited March 2011
    They better not overlap. Shitstorm will be ensued if so.

  • ROFLROFL Registered User
    edited March 2011
    DragonPup wrote: »
    This sounds like a pretty rude move by PAX. AnimeBoston's pretty much been that same weekend since before PaxEast ever happened.

    how is it rude? are they in charge of paying attention to every event that could be happening?

    as someone else here said, spring events have a very limited time frame. if ANYONE had reserved the con center for the weekend before or after, they may have been limited. Either PAX East happens then, or it doesn't happen. they have to fit the Expo into their work schedules too. So if that was the available day it was the available day.

    I don't think it'd cross their mind to say "WAIT! ... let's make sure AB isn't going to do that too.. cause if they are we just won't have PAX this year. That's the polite thing to do"

    it's more likely they didn't have the option to do any other day. and so they picked that.

    If you want to go to AB so badly, go to that and not PAX. But do not blame PAX for this. It isn't as though AB is the only one allowed to have a convention in Boston. And they're not BOTH anime cons. One is anime. One is video games and comics, developers, and geek culture. They're actually quite different.
    No convention gets priority over a city.

    What you're saying is almost like saying "omg. my BEST FRIEND who is 21 is having a birthday party this weekend. But this other person I know who was born on the same day, but is only turning 18 is having THEIR party the SAME DAY! HOW RUDE!"

    know what I mean? it's just sort of a silly argument :/ just go to whichever you feel is more important to you. But please, be logical and reasonable here. It's not possible for them to know everything that's going on. They're also not from this area (they're from seattle) so they may not even know AB or its scheduling or how big it is. Also keep that in mind, thank you

  • KrisstaKrissta New HampshireRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    DragonPup wrote: »
    This sounds like a pretty rude move by PAX. AnimeBoston's pretty much been that same weekend since before PaxEast ever happened.

    Unless they 100% did not have a choice on the date, I agree. I have never been to Anime Boston, but they've been doing this for years. Not really fair to make people decide which to go to.

  • CARTER-A259CARTER-A259 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    ROFL wrote: »
    DragonPup wrote: »
    This sounds like a pretty rude move by PAX. AnimeBoston's pretty much been that same weekend since before PaxEast ever happened.

    how is it rude? are they in charge of paying attention to every event that could be happening?

    as someone else here said, spring events have a very limited time frame. if ANYONE had reserved the con center for the weekend before or after, they may have been limited. Either PAX East happens then, or it doesn't happen. they have to fit the Expo into their work schedules too. So if that was the available day it was the available day.

    I don't think it'd cross their mind to say "WAIT! ... let's make sure AB isn't going to do that too.. cause if they are we just won't have PAX this year. That's the polite thing to do"

    it's more likely they didn't have the option to do any other day. and so they picked that.

    If you want to go to AB so badly, go to that and not PAX. But do not blame PAX for this. It isn't as though AB is the only one allowed to have a convention in Boston. And they're not BOTH anime cons. One is anime. One is video games and comics, developers, and geek culture. They're actually quite different.
    No convention gets priority over a city.

    What you're saying is almost like saying "omg. my BEST FRIEND who is 21 is having a birthday party this weekend. But this other person I know who was born on the same day, but is only turning 18 is having THEIR party the SAME DAY! HOW RUDE!"

    know what I mean? it's just sort of a silly argument :/ just go to whichever you feel is more important to you. But please, be logical and reasonable here. It's not possible for them to know everything that's going on. They're also not from this area (they're from seattle) so they may not even know AB or its scheduling or how big it is. Also keep that in mind, thank you

    The issue, is that REED Exhibitions, the company that runs PAX, is known for doing stuff like this.

    From what I've heard from various AB staff, there were actually other dates available for PAX East, and this particular date was chosen.

    I can't get any more into it, but suffice to say, the date was not accidental. It was intentionally chosen by REED, especially since it would be in the best interest of the MCCA to not have both conventions on the same weekend.

  • Mike TooleMike Toole Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    ROFL wrote: »
    One is anime. One is video games and comics, developers, and geek culture. They're actually quite different.

    This. I fell into the trap of trying to compare AB and PAXEAST last year, when they were in the same venue and in close proximity. But when I discussed this with my friends, I got a lot of "Well, I don't watch anime, I just get the Final Fantasy games sometimes" and "I don't really play video games, I like cartoons". There is some obvious overlap between the audiences, but I don't think it's really all that prevelant.

    Also, they're very different cons. IMO PAXEAST may have that bumpin' expo hall and beefy open tabletop/console/PC gaming resources, but AB has more diverse concerts and a much broader, more fan-oriented panel program. I'll go to both, because I couldn't imagine missing either of them, but I'll be going to each one for different reasons.
    Word on the street is... Well, the going rumor is...

    From what I've heard... I can't get any more into it...

    Haha holy crap, you sure do like to gossip!

  • ROFLROFL Registered User
    edited March 2011
    Krissta wrote: »
    DragonPup wrote: »
    This sounds like a pretty rude move by PAX. AnimeBoston's pretty much been that same weekend since before PaxEast ever happened.

    Unless they 100% did not have a choice on the date, I agree. I have never been to Anime Boston, but they've been doing this for years. Not really fair to make people decide which to go to.

    but again I argue: is it up to a group from Seattle to know or be responsible for this? they may not know about AB. and regardless, it's not as though AB has seniority. It's an event. PAX is also an event. Neither has an obligation to pay attention to the other. The idea isn't to force anyone to CHOOSE either party over the other. The idea is to put on a show for the attendees. If you are more into anime, go to AB. If you are more into gaming, developing or comics, go to PAX. It's what you feel is your priority. I don't have a tough choice, as I've said all ready. But I also understand some people have a tough choice. But that doesn't give anyone the right to blame AB OR PAX for the scheduling conflict. They don't have to honor the other con.

    Also, AB has been locked into the Easter Weekend thing because it's usually the only weekend available. Because all AB attendants pretty much know that, it's pretty likely PAX is having the same issue.

    So please, let's not start drama and insanity here. Let's not go around pointing fingers and spreading rumors of fake controversy and battles for the most attendees. Let's try and be adults here and realize that this is no one's fault, it's no one's issue, and that if it does happen to fall on the same day, that there's no one to blame and only one thing to be asked: which would I rather go to?

  • ROFLROFL Registered User
    edited March 2011

    The issue, is that REED Exhibitions, the company that runs PAX, is known for doing stuff like this.

    From what I've heard from various AB staff, there were actually other dates available for PAX East, and this particular date was chosen.

    I can't get any more into it, but suffice to say, the date was not accidental. It was intentionally chosen by REED, especially since it would be in the best interest of the MCCA to not have both conventions on the same weekend.

    more than anything I'm saying this: why start a feud or a war on here? accept it and don't start trying to get people angry or blaming anyone. There is literally NO need for that. It helps no one. So how about you stop trying to get people angry and thinking the PAX group is trying to tear down the fabric of the Boston con status quo?


    Word on the street is... Well, the going rumor is...

    From what I've heard... I can't get any more into it...

    Haha holy crap, you sure do like to gossip![/QUOTE]


    THANK YOU. It's gossip and it's not helpful. I thank you for saying that, Mike

  • Lindsey LohanLindsey Lohan Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I'm more upset that it would be Easter weekend. Mike and Jerry both have families and should maybe respect that Easter is a time that most of us spend with our kids. I'll take the Easter Bunny and an egg hunt with my kid during the few years that he'll believe in that over PAX without even thinking.

    steam_sig.png
  • CARTER-A259CARTER-A259 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    ROFL wrote: »
    THANK YOU. It's gossip and it's not helpful. I thank you for saying that, Mike

    Because its wrong. Its a simple case of a for-profit convention coming into a town, and trying to drive away a non-profit convention.

    It could very well all blow over, and both cons could survive. Or it could mean the end of Anime Boston.

    That has always been one of my biggest issues with PAX, as a whole, that its for-profit. If anything, let the revenue stream speak for itself, and donate the excess to Childs Play.

    However, blindingly defending something that is clearly whacked is not in the best interest of anyone.

  • KrisstaKrissta New HampshireRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    I'm more upset that it would be Easter weekend. Mike and Jerry both have families and should maybe respect that Easter is a time that most of us spend with our kids. I'll take the Easter Bunny and an egg hunt with my kid during the few years that he'll believe in that over PAX without even thinking.

    I actually have the same feeling. I won't go to AB because I'm just not that into anime. I want to go to PAX, and 99% I will go next year, but I really hate missing Easter with my family.

  • ExplosionExplosion Registered User
    edited March 2011
    DragonPup wrote: »
    This sounds like a pretty rude move by PAX. AnimeBoston's pretty much been that same weekend since before PaxEast ever happened.

    According to Wikipedia, you're just flat-out wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime_Boston#Event_history

    Anime Boston has jumped around from March to May with no real discernible pattern. If Anime Boston was always "3rd weekend in April," then I'd say that it's a rude move. Given how Anime Boston jumps around, it's an unfortunate coincidence.

  • chrismsxchrismsx Registered User
    edited March 2011
    I'm more upset that it would be Easter weekend. Mike and Jerry both have families and should maybe respect that Easter is a time that most of us spend with our kids. I'll take the Easter Bunny and an egg hunt with my kid during the few years that he'll believe in that over PAX without even thinking.

    Yeah.. If they put it on Easter weekend, I certainly won't be able to go. My wife surely won't be cool with me leaving on Easter and her parents wouldn't even be remotely cool with me missing out on family get togethers for PAX. :-/

  • DragonPupDragonPup Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    My bad, I just remember how AnimeBoston tended to get stuck around Easter Weekend. (although I am pretty sure AB 2012's date was set first...)

    "I was there, I was there, the day Horus slew the Emperor." -Cpt Garviel Loken

    Currently painting: Slowly [flickr]
  • KrisstaKrissta New HampshireRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Explosion wrote: »
    DragonPup wrote: »
    This sounds like a pretty rude move by PAX. AnimeBoston's pretty much been that same weekend since before PaxEast ever happened.

    According to Wikipedia, you're just flat-out wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime_Boston#Event_history

    Anime Boston has jumped around from March to May with no real discernible pattern. If Anime Boston was always "3rd weekend in April," then I'd say that it's a rude move. Given how Anime Boston jumps around, it's an unfortunate coincidence.

    Oh jeesh. Nevermind then! Not even an issue.

    Yeah, just looked up Anime Boston's website: http://www.animeboston.com/about/general_faq/
    Will there be an Anime Boston 2012?
    Dates for Anime Boston 2012 will be announced in the Anime Boston 2011 Programming Guide and at Closing Ceremonies.

  • DisruptedCapitalistDisruptedCapitalist silly fellow, silly fellow, is against me Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Explosion wrote: »
    DragonPup wrote: »
    This sounds like a pretty rude move by PAX. AnimeBoston's pretty much been that same weekend since before PaxEast ever happened.

    According to Wikipedia, you're just flat-out wrong: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime_Boston#Event_history

    Anime Boston has jumped around from March to May with no real discernible pattern. If Anime Boston was always "3rd weekend in April," then I'd say that it's a rude move. Given how Anime Boston jumps around, it's an unfortunate coincidence.

    Thank you Explosion for showing a reputable source to back us up. I said this earlier and Carter replied:
    AB is usually on an Easter Weekend.

    And yes, this is more or less predatory con scheduling by the PAX organizers. Which is somewhat unfortunate, since AB is a non-profit con, and PAX East isn't.

    It was not on Easter weekend in 2005, 2006, 2007, and 2009.

    Carter appears to be trolling this thread with false information.

    EDIT: [strike]Additionally as Krissta noted, the dates for the 2012 AB haven't even been announced yet so there is no way PAX could have known which date to chose to "steal" the date from NEAS. As far as I'm concerned Carter is full of shit.[/strike] never mind Fetch26291 has shown that the MCCA already announced it.

  • Fetch26291Fetch26291 MassachusettsRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    http://www.mccahome.com/events.html (pg 7)

    This is from the MCCA site.
    PAX East 2012 and AB 2012 are both April 6-8, 2012.

  • Mike TooleMike Toole Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    EDIT: Additionally as Krissta noted, the dates for the 2012 AB haven't even been announced yet so there is no way PAX could have known which date to chose to "steal" the date from NEAS. As far as I'm concerned Carter is full of shit.

    http://www.massconvention.com/events.html

    Page 7

    edit: fuck, beaten!

  • flatlineflatline Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Mike Toole wrote: »
    EDIT: Additionally as Krissta noted, the dates for the 2012 AB haven't even been announced yet so there is no way PAX could have known which date to chose to "steal" the date from NEAS. As far as I'm concerned Carter is full of shit.

    http://www.massconvention.com/events.html

    Page 7

    edit: fuck, beaten!

    24,000 attendees? They must be /joking

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  • Mike TooleMike Toole Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    flatline wrote: »
    24,000 attendees? They must be /joking

    Until Reed reports actual attendance numbers and not turnstile, we'll never know for sure!

  • DrLavitzDrLavitz Registered User
    edited March 2011
    I just talked to my cousin, who before this year was part of the exec staff for AB, and from what she said AB is currently working with and MCCA(and probably REED) to get the date of AB changed so there isn't any conflict.

    And as for REED purposely putting it on the same day, is ridiculous. Having two huge conventions in the same weekend would be detrimental for each one's attendance and how much money they'd make. And while AB is a non-profit, REED is not. And so this particular decision would be very bad for how much money the company would make from attendance.

  • Robert KhooRobert Khoo Registered User, Administrator, ClubPA, Penny Arcade Staff, PAX Staff staff
    edited March 2011
    Whoa whoa whoa, everyone. There's a lot of mud being thrown around here, and i want to clarify some things:

    A. The only people to blame for this is us. Obviously Anime Boston has nothing to do with it, and neither does the MCCA/Boston/Reed. There are a number of factors playing into the decision to choose Easter Weekend, including:

    1. Actually having dates where the entirety of the convention center is open, and that's not just for show days. It takes us five full days to setup and two full days to strike.
    2. Not overlapping the Boston Marathon
    3. Not being close to any large event/conferences within boston that would hurt our ability to negotiate for lower hotel room rates for attendees.
    4. Not overlapping with GDC (since many developers and publishers go to both)
    5. Not overlapping with Anime Boston
    6. Not overlapping with SXSW
    7. As far away from PAX Prime the previous year (so not too early) so we can plan the show.
    8. As far away from PAX Prime, E3 and SDCC the next year (so not too late).

    So, that said, when looking at that list, I came to the realization a long time ago fulfilling all of those is an impossibility. One of two of those gives every year. (same with prime, only with different criteria/shows) For instance, this year we needed to overlap with SXSW, and tons of speakers and guests couldn't make it because they were booked for that. It's just a reality of the show.

    That list is pretty much in order of importance. Tough decisions need to get made because of it, and to get #s 1-3 in alignment, #s 4, 5 or 6 had be compromised. It's unfortunate, but it had to happen.


    B. It is in NO ONE'S best interest that we overlap with each other. IT ONLY HURTS BOTH SHOWS. I have no desire to "crush" another show or anything like that - the dates fell as the dates fell.

    C. I spoke with Nick Amento over at A/B last week about it, and I'll tell you the same thing I told him. We'll do whatever we can to help support their show. A free booth selling A/B badges, letting them run shuttles from here to their show - I'm down with whatever helps them succeed.

    Anyway, I hope this gives you some insight into our thought process and that it's not some sort of flippant decision. Thanks everyone.

    -robert

    Some guy.
  • MxWoodMxWood Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    DrLavitz wrote: »
    And as for REED purposely putting it on the same day, is ridiculous. Having two huge conventions in the same weekend would be detrimental for each one's attendance and how much money they'd make. And while AB is a non-profit, REED is not. And so this particular decision would be very bad for how much money the company would make from attendance.

    how dare you bring common sense and reason into this...

  • KrisstaKrissta New HampshireRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Khoo, that all makes perfect sense. Thanks for coming in here and letting us all know. :) I realize it's impossible to get everything perfect. I'm glad to hear you're working with AB, too. That's really awesome.

  • Fetch26291Fetch26291 MassachusettsRegistered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Here is the thread about this issue from the AB forum:

    http://forums.animeboston.com/showtopic.php?tid/12281/


    Good to know that the staff of both shows are trying to work it out.

  • havok978havok978 Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    B. It is in NO ONE'S best interest that we overlap with each other. IT ONLY HURTS BOTH SHOWS. I have no desire to "crush" another show or anything like that - the dates fell as the dates fell.

    Thanks Khoo for clearing things up. I think the whole idea that this is some grand scheme to come to Boston and run Anime Boston out of business is a bit ridiculous. Stuff like this happens from time to time. As others pointed out, people more into anime are gonna head over to AB. People more into gaming are gonna head to PAX. There's probably gonna be a bit of overlap between the two as well. If anything, I think it probably splits the attendance both ways, so I don't think anyone is really getting an advantage.
    C. I spoke with Nick Amento over at A/B last week about it, and I'll tell you the same thing I told him. We'll do whatever we can to help support their show. A free booth selling A/B badges, letting them run shuttles from here to their show - I'm down with whatever helps them succeed.

    I think this would actually be awesome. I typically wouldn't head to AB because its so close to PAX East and trying to coordinate two vacations and two trips in such a small time frame wouldn't work. But something like this would make me seriously consider getting a pass and popping over there throughout the weekend.

  • Lindsey LohanLindsey Lohan Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Thanks for clarifying - even if it does still suck royally for those of us with family.

    Maybe I'll have to bring the boy in for Sunday. Have a swag hunt instead of an Easter Egg hunt :)

    Can I officially request an Easter Egg hunt in some form for the kids?

    steam_sig.png
  • tvethiopiatvethiopia Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    Thanks for clarifying - even if it does still suck royally for those of us with family.

    Maybe I'll have to bring the boy in for Sunday. Have a swag hunt instead of an Easter Egg hunt :)

    Can I officially request an Easter Egg hunt in some form for the kids?

    i would guess no on the easter egg hunt, being a religious holiday and all. but a secular swag hunt seems like a neat idea.

    <3 Daintier. Smarter. Better dressed. <3
  • Lindsey LohanLindsey Lohan Registered User regular
    edited March 2011
    tvethiopia wrote: »
    Thanks for clarifying - even if it does still suck royally for those of us with family.

    Maybe I'll have to bring the boy in for Sunday. Have a swag hunt instead of an Easter Egg hunt :)

    Can I officially request an Easter Egg hunt in some form for the kids?

    i would guess no on the easter egg hunt, being a religious holiday and all. but a secular swag hunt seems like a neat idea.

    I was thinking Easter Egg was a gaming term so it works in two ways :)

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