eh outside of container city and shipyard i would say most maps are fairly balanced. some parts of aquarium are rough but overall i rarely feel like it's a failing of the map when i lose, but more of me and my team. i really like maps like resort, reactor, and refuel.
How can you call Reactor fairly balanced?
I've never seen a team make it past the first objective.
Resort is ok as long as the defending team isn't all that good and you can make it past the first part. Otherwise it's laughably easy to pin the attackers in their spawn because they only have one hallway to walk down. Then again, that's pretty much exactly why Container City is an awful map too.
Reactor is only balanced in the fact that if resistance can get past the first objective, they instantly win at the second one as a prize.
there's two objectives to hack on reactor, and a bridge an engineer can build that leads right to the upper area between the two objectives. if you have an intelligent team and can open that bridge and hold the upper area, it lets you defend the operatives hacking below. most teams run blindly in through the big doors which is the worst way to approach that objective.
on resort, i have never ever seen someone get spawn trapped. it may be a difference in the players on PC vs 360, but i have not seen that done and i have played that map a fair amount. the trick is to have one solider and everyone cover him, as opposed to several soliders all trying to simply rush it and dying over and over.
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CarbonFireSee youin the countryRegistered Userregular
there's two objectives to hack on reactor, and a bridge an engineer can build that leads right to the upper area between the two objectives. if you have an intelligent team and can open that bridge and hold the upper area, it lets you defend the operatives hacking below. most teams run blindly in through the big doors which is the worst way to approach that objective.
on resort, i have never ever seen someone get spawn trapped. it may be a difference in the players on PC vs 360, but i have not seen that done and i have played that map a fair amount. the trick is to have one solider and everyone cover him, as opposed to several soliders all trying to simply rush it and dying over and over.
I have gotten passed the first section a couple of times, but only because the opposing team was incredibly outmatched, or full of terrible bots. I've never seen teams of approximately equal skill get anywhere passed the first point. I've seen good teams get close, but it always gets reversed (had one go to 95% once, then get disarmed back to zero )
And two objectives is meaningless when you can only hack one or the other. Given the extreme amount of time it takes to hack those objectives, you literally have to fend off at least 4 waves of enemies to have any hope of seeing the second half of that map. And considering the defenders spawn closer AND have closer access points (lower entrance is right outside their spawn), it's just a recipe for never-ending failure.
It's not that the map is badly designed per se, it's mainly that hack objectives are broken in their current form. I hope Splash Damage fixes them soon. :?
Just got 12.5k XP in one round of Resort. As an operative.
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
edited June 2011
Resort is actually one of my favorite maps, in terms of balance, with the exception of the attackers spawn hallway. Once that hurdle is done, I've seen it go either way quite a few times.
Other than just sticking with Stopwatch mode, my cart blanche idea for Container City would be to add some cover for Security that has good sight lines on the door objective. Perhaps adding Security access to the top of the containers overlooking the door so that both sides find the approach to be a killing ground.
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Black lives matter.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
I don't think removing the gate would help, the problem isn't getting the door blown, the problem is getting to the door. They need another route that goes left from spawn rather than right, so you can't cover both security exits from one spot.
Yeah you really need to get a hold of the courtyard and then start sending everyone but the bot escort into the next area to hold the door charge and keep the bot moving. Of course holding the courtyard is almost impossible without a coordinated team in the current iteration as we all know.
Taking the door away won't do much to help. Perhaps eliminating the upper ledge on security's right might help some.
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CarbonFireSee youin the countryRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
Here's what seems like the most logical fix to me:
Current Sec Paths in Red
Overlook / Shortcut in Yellow
Proposed New Path in Green
Make another path, accessible by parkour only (possibly only by lights) that you have to run to the end of that pier area to access. Then it runs above and behind the containers, and spills out near the stairs overlooking the door objective. And it wouldn't even have to be an exit. Just having a window for people to chuck grenades down and shoot enemies in the back who are trying to camp those red exits might be enough to break the endless spawn rape that now typifies most Container City matches.
Either that, or fix the Yellow overlook / shortcut so it isn't so easy for Resistance to camp both of Security's exits.
That yellow overlook is absolutely murder if the Resistance can hold it. In fact, on CCity camp-fests where I'm lucky enough to be on the Resistance side, that's usually where you'll find me, fulfilling the Designated Marksman role with my Gerund and spamming grenades/molys.
This is an...odd game. A little voice inside my head keeps yelling this is awful, but i'm not entirely sure if he's right. The fundemental problem with this game is that the choke points are the spawn of some unholy hell, where the requirements of working together as a team are so essential, that if you fail to do so the whole mechanics of the game crumble. The opposition don't really need to work together, they simply have to exist and be in the same tactical poisition. As long as they're firing bullets at you and your team is unorganised then they will always win.
Someone I know (the very person who wrote our review) has attempted to write the choke point balance off as "just like Enemy Territory." As if this miraciously absolves the game of all sins. That Splash Damage have failed to realise that overwhelming choke points are bad seems to be a moot point. They're there and veterans of the experience accept them. This strikes me as odd.
Yet, there is also a sort of excitement to it. I will admit that the tension rises, the adrenaline flows as you attempt to guide the boat to victorious waters. There is satisfaction to be had in such endeavours. I just think it could be
improved by proper balancing.
This game isn't perfect, you can tell it is a new IP. It shows a lot of influence from other games the devs worked on, I guess, from what I have read. I haven't played those games; but it is a new game. It is taking the rpg-influenced shooter farther than any other game I have played, it is experimenting with a lot of things and trying new things. It is different from every other shooter I have played.
It does have some bizarre design decisions, such as Engineers countering Operatives. That really makes no sense to me. And combat intuition is bad.
And the levels are hard. You are right in saying they favor the defenders heavily. Defense is basically just that, defense. And the defense usually has the high ground and lots of cover, and their spawn is often two seconds away from the objective.
On PSN, it takes a good five or 10 minutes for the bots to be replaced by other people, if it happens at all. That's annoying. The bots are off playing capture the command post and there is one human guy rolling as an Onanist Medic, and another one running around trying to snipe on offense.
Maybe I give the game too many breaks, I don't know. I enjoy it . And the devs are working on it and tweaking things and whatnot and you know, actually supporting it.
I don't think removing the gate would help, the problem isn't getting the door blown, the problem is getting to the door. They need another route that goes left from spawn rather than right, so you can't cover both security exits from one spot.
I was hoping the bot would be able to provide rolling cover for the attacking team. I don't know if it would work, but I always seems to have a bit of luck picking off people from the sides of the bot allowing for a brief sweep of the courtyard.
I didn't really believe the hackbox needed to be fixed until I made a light operative character (after someone posted a page or so ago about how fun it is). The fact that I can be canceled out by 1 engineer, even when I have 5 bars, is bullshit. They should have to come find me to stop the hacking.
As for operative, it's not something I really expected to like, and it's a blast. It's a huge adjustment from my soldier/engy build that I just hit 20 with. Namely, I have little/no use for pips all of a sudden. Still, I've gotten pretty good about disguising and then running backwards (to appear as though I'm falling back) and then just sticking it in people's butts.
A few questions/observations:
-The Mossington seems to blow. Am I missing something? Is there no "spread" of shots, just one wildly inaccurate shot? Because I swear I shoot mediums from point-blank and they don't lose health.
-How useful is comms hacking? It's pretty rare that I look at the radar, only when I have to defend 2 points and want to know which side they're coming from (like defending the first objective in Aquarium)
-Does nobody understand how landmines work? I played resort, and on the last hackbox objective 3 people suddenly switched to Operative. We were all running out from the spawn, 4 of us Operatives in a row, and there's an enemy landmine outside our spawn. We're all operatives, so we all see it, but I'm the only one that doesn't run right into it...resulting in 3 almost-dead operatives at my feet while I ironsight it to point it out to an engy.
I still haven't gotten used to the light body type, but it definitely feels different from the medium.
Here's what seems like the most logical fix to me:
Make another path, accessible by parkour only (possibly only by lights) that you have to run to the end of that pier area to access. Then it runs above and behind the containers, and spills out near the stairs overlooking the door objective. And it wouldn't even have to be an exit. Just having a window for people to chuck grenades down and shoot enemies in the back who are trying to camp those red exits might be enough to break the endless spawn rape that now typifies most Container City matches.
I like it! The window would help get rid of those that hang back by the stairs to the operative door. My only concern is it having a vantage point of the bomb placement area and making it too hard to disarm the bomb.
A few questions/observations:
-The Mossington seems to blow. Am I missing something? Is there no "spread" of shots, just one wildly inaccurate shot? Because I swear I shoot mediums from point-blank and they don't lose health.
It's pathetic. I have also shot people point blank without hitting them, and I'm pretty sure it's because the spread is just that wide. It fires 10 pellets for 22 damage each (no head or leg modifiers), at 60 rpm. So to kill an unbuffed light at close range, you need 6 of those 10 to hit (so unlikely as to be impossible), and in the second it takes to fire the second shot, a Carb-9 will have fired 16 times at 23 damage each (17 to legs, 34 to head). And you can be bloody sure that more of those will hit than from the shotgun.
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MaddocI'm Bobbin Threadbare, are you my mother?Registered Userregular
A few questions/observations:
-The Mossington seems to blow. Am I missing something? Is there no "spread" of shots, just one wildly inaccurate shot? Because I swear I shoot mediums from point-blank and they don't lose health.
It's pathetic. I have also shot people point blank without hitting them, and I'm pretty sure it's because the spread is just that wide. It fires 10 pellets for 22 damage each (no head or leg modifiers), at 60 rpm. So to kill an unbuffed light at close range, you need 6 of those 10 to hit (so unlikely as to be impossible), and in the second it takes to fire the second shot, a Carb-9 will have fired 16 times at 23 damage each (17 to legs, 34 to head). And you can be bloody sure that more of those will hit than from the shotgun.
I do just fine with the Mossington, then again I generally roll Engineer, so I always have the Improved Weapon Buff going. 28x10 instead of 22x10.
I regularly drop Lights and Mediums in one shot from close range, sticking around corners and such. Generally the "worst case" is that it leaves them with a sliver of life and they kill me. I've never seen it just not do damage at close range though.
Glad to hear it's not just me...as much as I love SMG's in general (too impatient to do anything but run-and-gun) it seems like suddenly developers don't know how to get them right. CS did SMG's just fine, just do what they did....stupid damage and stupid recoil.
Maybe it's just been too long since I've been to the firing range, but I don't remember SMG's firing assault rifle-calibre rounds with the recoil of a .22.
The SMGs in Brink are just god damn ridiculous. They all need to be nerfed to varying degrees. They have WAY too much god damn effective range and accuracy.
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CarbonFireSee youin the countryRegistered Userregular
The SMGs in Brink are just god damn ridiculous. They all need to be nerfed to varying degrees. They have WAY too much god damn effective range and accuracy.
Heh, i'm actually enjoying being a Heavy. This is probably a bad sign.
Yeah, my main is a Heavy. It's a lot of fun hiding behind my turret, laying down artillery fire with my grenade launcher, and letting my turret finish em off.
Hackboxes are getting a significant tweak across the board to help out attacking teams. We have drastically increased the time it takes Engineers to "de-hack", making it easier for the attackers to actually get the hack done.
In addition to the Hackbox change, we've got several other objective tweaks coming, as well. For starters, we're doubling the XP received for completing Primary Objectives in the game, so if you tackle one of them, your reward will be much greater from now on.
In addition, we've made the following map-specific adjustments:
Aquarium: Elevator generator construction time decreased
Container City: Robot health increased
Reactor: Terminal hack time slightly increased to balance new hacking mechanic
Resort: Gate hack time slightly increased to balance new hacking mechanic
Security Tower: Passcode return time increased
Security Tower: Passcode transmit time decreased
There's a single tweak coming your way here, with the Medic's Adrenaline ability now having a shorter duration, which'll make timing the ability right even more important.
Increasing passcode entry time is suspect, but it greatly depends on how much they reduce Engi's speed at removing the hackbox and if they decide to incorporate a hackbox removal speed boost into Nerves of Steel (which wouldn't really make sense, haha).
I'm a little iffy on the changes to passcode return/input speed because I find that the easiest part of offense on both CCity (if I make it that far) and the resistance equiv, but it doesn't bother me much. The health buff to the CCity bot is a welcome boost, but it's a bit of a bandaid. When they actually do some map balancing and implement weapon shields I suspect they'll end up having to revert it as a change.
Shen on
3DS: 2234-8122-8398 | Battle.net (EU): Ladi#2485
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Zxerolfor the smaller pieces, my shovel wouldn't doso i took off my boot and used my shoeRegistered Userregular
edited June 2011
It's not like bot buff will help worth a damn if offense gets spawn-camped straight off the bat and never blows up that game.
I think the issue is Adrenaline doesn't stop someone completing an objective. What you don't realise is that organised teams will chain adrenaline on someone and it is completely impossible for the defence to stop them. It's especially useful for capturing intel or planting a bomb.
Personally I'd give it an extra 4-5 seconds but prevent the planting of a bomb/repairing/hacking/inputing intel while under it's effects (say you're too jittery to concentrate or something). Also while you could still carry intel while under it's effects, i would make it so you can't be hit with another adrenaline shot until 30 seconds have passed.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
I'm surprised the Mossington doesn't get a front grip attachment for the pump that improves stability (and make it look as cool as Duke Nukem 3D's shotty). Nice to hear about the map and hacking tweaks, which should give hackers more "breathing room". The first part of Reactor is a bitch to accomplish as Resistance, yeah, mostly because Sec has the top areas locked up tightly most of the time making the door hack very tricky (I tried it last night and kept getting denied before I could even reach the thing). On the second part of Resort as Security last night we got rolled by the other team - seeing the bot move so quickly reminds me of all the bad Payload matches in TF2 that I've endured as a defender. It didn't help that the security room was full of heavies and turrets most of the time.
I think the issue is Adrenaline doesn't stop someone completing an objective. What you don't realise is that organised teams will chain adrenaline on someone and it is completely impossible for the defence to stop them. It's especially useful for capturing intel or planting a bomb.
Personally I'd give it an extra 4-5 seconds but prevent the planting of a bomb/repairing/hacking/inputing intel while under it's effects (say you're too jittery to concentrate or something). Also while you could still carry intel while under it's effects, i would make it so you can't be hit with another adrenaline shot until 30 seconds have passed.
but i think the idea behind the adrenaline was to give someone an opportunity to plant bomb/hack/capture somethng. i think the timing of it has gone over the heads of some people though. I would say make the timer longer but you only can get it once per spawn, prevent chaining but allow for objectives to get started etc
I think the issue is Adrenaline doesn't stop someone completing an objective. What you don't realise is that organised teams will chain adrenaline on someone and it is completely impossible for the defence to stop them. It's especially useful for capturing intel or planting a bomb.
Personally I'd give it an extra 4-5 seconds but prevent the planting of a bomb/repairing/hacking/inputing intel while under it's effects (say you're too jittery to concentrate or something). Also while you could still carry intel while under it's effects, i would make it so you can't be hit with another adrenaline shot until 30 seconds have passed.
but i think the idea behind the adrenaline was to give someone an opportunity to plant bomb/hack/capture somethng. i think the timing of it has gone over the heads of some people though. I would say make the timer longer but you only can get it once per spawn, prevent chaining but allow for objectives to get started etc
I think you achieve the same goal by making it last a bit longer, and using it to kill the defenders/force them to retreat so someone else can get on the objective. I just think it's easier to balance and easier to understand how/when to use it this way.
Rami on
Steam / Xbox Live: WSDX NNID: W-S-D-X 3DS FC: 2637-9461-8549
Huh, i'm enjoying this far more being a heavy. I will back up whats being said though in that SMG's are ridicolously overpowered. I think this is down to the stabilty being better.
so perusing that link about the tweaks it sounds liek they changed some respawn times on some maps. one guy was saying ccity defense was now 30 seconds
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That_GuyI don't wanna be that guyRegistered Userregular
The PC community is pretty much dead at this point. Bear didn't really like the game either. The biggest problem is that the servers are flaky and just crap out at odd times. Combine that with really shitty voip and big balance issues, not many PC players hung on. I would be willing to give it another shot if they can at least fix the balance issues (more than just what they talked about) and improved the feel of things. I, personally, don't like the floaty feel of the guns when you fire. I should be able to hit a target dead on with my first round. My gun should stay accurate if I tap fire it. Instead bullets seem to have a mind of their own and go where they please.
I think what happened is they both crapped out last night and no one really noticed/cared. Mine restarts itself at 8am EST every day though and looks like it's back up now.
I am, however, letting my server subscription expire which, I think, happens on Monday.
After which I will start an Enemy Territory server! (not really, but that would be sweet)
probably my fault, whenever i jump on an new multiplayer release right away it dies out pretty soon. Case in point, Monday Night Combat.
though i can usually find a populated server whenever I play so it isn't completly dead, just on here
I tired so hard to keep PA MNC around. It it really only had about $15 worth of game in it, so it died pretty quick. It lasted longer than Brink, though.
Brink just feels really unfinished to me. It was delayed by close to a year and still managed to be unplayable at launch. It's too bad. There is a good game hiding under all this. I really wish there was a good current (read: NOT TF2) FPS for the PA community to rally to. This is the best community of gamers I have ever come across.
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Reactor is only balanced in the fact that if resistance can get past the first objective, they instantly win at the second one as a prize.
on resort, i have never ever seen someone get spawn trapped. it may be a difference in the players on PC vs 360, but i have not seen that done and i have played that map a fair amount. the trick is to have one solider and everyone cover him, as opposed to several soliders all trying to simply rush it and dying over and over.
I have gotten passed the first section a couple of times, but only because the opposing team was incredibly outmatched, or full of terrible bots. I've never seen teams of approximately equal skill get anywhere passed the first point. I've seen good teams get close, but it always gets reversed (had one go to 95% once, then get disarmed back to zero
And two objectives is meaningless when you can only hack one or the other. Given the extreme amount of time it takes to hack those objectives, you literally have to fend off at least 4 waves of enemies to have any hope of seeing the second half of that map. And considering the defenders spawn closer AND have closer access points (lower entrance is right outside their spawn), it's just a recipe for never-ending failure.
It's not that the map is badly designed per se, it's mainly that hack objectives are broken in their current form. I hope Splash Damage fixes them soon. :?
I would hazard a guess on that it would indeed. I don't know why though honestly. Yet, I have not been spawn camped after that gate was opened.
Law and Order ≠ Justice
ACNH Island Isla Cero: DA-3082-2045-4142
Captain of the SES Comptroller of the State
Taking the door away won't do much to help. Perhaps eliminating the upper ledge on security's right might help some.
Current Sec Paths in Red
Overlook / Shortcut in Yellow
Proposed New Path in Green
Make another path, accessible by parkour only (possibly only by lights) that you have to run to the end of that pier area to access. Then it runs above and behind the containers, and spills out near the stairs overlooking the door objective. And it wouldn't even have to be an exit. Just having a window for people to chuck grenades down and shoot enemies in the back who are trying to camp those red exits might be enough to break the endless spawn rape that now typifies most Container City matches.
Either that, or fix the Yellow overlook / shortcut so it isn't so easy for Resistance to camp both of Security's exits.
This game isn't perfect, you can tell it is a new IP. It shows a lot of influence from other games the devs worked on, I guess, from what I have read. I haven't played those games; but it is a new game. It is taking the rpg-influenced shooter farther than any other game I have played, it is experimenting with a lot of things and trying new things. It is different from every other shooter I have played.
It does have some bizarre design decisions, such as Engineers countering Operatives. That really makes no sense to me. And combat intuition is bad.
And the levels are hard. You are right in saying they favor the defenders heavily. Defense is basically just that, defense. And the defense usually has the high ground and lots of cover, and their spawn is often two seconds away from the objective.
On PSN, it takes a good five or 10 minutes for the bots to be replaced by other people, if it happens at all. That's annoying. The bots are off playing capture the command post and there is one human guy rolling as an Onanist Medic, and another one running around trying to snipe on offense.
Maybe I give the game too many breaks, I don't know. I enjoy it . And the devs are working on it and tweaking things and whatnot and you know, actually supporting it.
I was hoping the bot would be able to provide rolling cover for the attacking team. I don't know if it would work, but I always seems to have a bit of luck picking off people from the sides of the bot allowing for a brief sweep of the courtyard.
As for operative, it's not something I really expected to like, and it's a blast. It's a huge adjustment from my soldier/engy build that I just hit 20 with. Namely, I have little/no use for pips all of a sudden. Still, I've gotten pretty good about disguising and then running backwards (to appear as though I'm falling back) and then just sticking it in people's butts.
A few questions/observations:
-The Mossington seems to blow. Am I missing something? Is there no "spread" of shots, just one wildly inaccurate shot? Because I swear I shoot mediums from point-blank and they don't lose health.
-How useful is comms hacking? It's pretty rare that I look at the radar, only when I have to defend 2 points and want to know which side they're coming from (like defending the first objective in Aquarium)
-Does nobody understand how landmines work? I played resort, and on the last hackbox objective 3 people suddenly switched to Operative. We were all running out from the spawn, 4 of us Operatives in a row, and there's an enemy landmine outside our spawn. We're all operatives, so we all see it, but I'm the only one that doesn't run right into it...resulting in 3 almost-dead operatives at my feet while I ironsight it to point it out to an engy.
I still haven't gotten used to the light body type, but it definitely feels different from the medium.
I like it! The window would help get rid of those that hang back by the stairs to the operative door. My only concern is it having a vantage point of the bomb placement area and making it too hard to disarm the bomb.
It's pathetic. I have also shot people point blank without hitting them, and I'm pretty sure it's because the spread is just that wide. It fires 10 pellets for 22 damage each (no head or leg modifiers), at 60 rpm. So to kill an unbuffed light at close range, you need 6 of those 10 to hit (so unlikely as to be impossible), and in the second it takes to fire the second shot, a Carb-9 will have fired 16 times at 23 damage each (17 to legs, 34 to head). And you can be bloody sure that more of those will hit than from the shotgun.
I do just fine with the Mossington, then again I generally roll Engineer, so I always have the Improved Weapon Buff going. 28x10 instead of 22x10.
I regularly drop Lights and Mediums in one shot from close range, sticking around corners and such. Generally the "worst case" is that it leaves them with a sliver of life and they kill me. I've never seen it just not do damage at close range though.
Maybe it's just been too long since I've been to the firing range, but I don't remember SMG's firing assault rifle-calibre rounds with the recoil of a .22.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMxH7JLVdhc&NR=1
Yeah, my main is a Heavy. It's a lot of fun hiding behind my turret, laying down artillery fire with my grenade launcher, and letting my turret finish em off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76RrdwElnTU#t=0m7s
http://www.splashdamage.com/content/power-netvars-%E2%80%93-brink-gets-balance-tweaks?
Seriously?
Agreed. My jaw dropped when I read the change.
Did you guys have a problem with Passcode entry time on Security Tower or the health of CCity bot?
I'm a little iffy on the changes to passcode return/input speed because I find that the easiest part of offense on both CCity (if I make it that far) and the resistance equiv, but it doesn't bother me much. The health buff to the CCity bot is a welcome boost, but it's a bit of a bandaid. When they actually do some map balancing and implement weapon shields I suspect they'll end up having to revert it as a change.
Personally I'd give it an extra 4-5 seconds but prevent the planting of a bomb/repairing/hacking/inputing intel while under it's effects (say you're too jittery to concentrate or something). Also while you could still carry intel while under it's effects, i would make it so you can't be hit with another adrenaline shot until 30 seconds have passed.
I think you achieve the same goal by making it last a bit longer, and using it to kill the defenders/force them to retreat so someone else can get on the objective. I just think it's easier to balance and easier to understand how/when to use it this way.
me either
everythign else sounds good though
i think adrenalin exists to help complete objectives under fire
The PC community is pretty much dead at this point. Bear didn't really like the game either. The biggest problem is that the servers are flaky and just crap out at odd times. Combine that with really shitty voip and big balance issues, not many PC players hung on. I would be willing to give it another shot if they can at least fix the balance issues (more than just what they talked about) and improved the feel of things. I, personally, don't like the floaty feel of the guns when you fire. I should be able to hit a target dead on with my first round. My gun should stay accurate if I tap fire it. Instead bullets seem to have a mind of their own and go where they please.
I am, however, letting my server subscription expire which, I think, happens on Monday.
After which I will start an Enemy Territory server! (not really, but that would be sweet)
Oh my god, bear is driving!
though i can usually find a populated server whenever I play so it isn't completly dead, just on here
I tired so hard to keep PA MNC around. It it really only had about $15 worth of game in it, so it died pretty quick. It lasted longer than Brink, though.
Brink just feels really unfinished to me. It was delayed by close to a year and still managed to be unplayable at launch. It's too bad. There is a good game hiding under all this. I really wish there was a good current (read: NOT TF2) FPS for the PA community to rally to. This is the best community of gamers I have ever come across.