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Star Wars: [Phalla]nce in the Force - Sith Empire(mafia) Are Victorious

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Posts

  • Shiny New ToysShiny New Toys Registered User regular
    I to have concerns that this plan has not fully been thought through. While this information is very useful for the council, not all Jedi are the council and not all the council are Jedi.

    If we do this and lets be honest most of us have been threatened to do so or be revealed as Sith, then who is moving in on the Planets? The other planets that having control over gives other powers, oh yeah - that would be the real Sith!

  • REG RyskREG Rysk Lord Rageface Rageington Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    I think Matev may have been a little hasty in sending out PMs.

    There is more discussion that needs to be had on the Council boards. IF the plan goes forward as proposed on the boards, there are some really important parts I want to point out.

    1) People can and will lie about their results.
    2) This is only a "Day 1" plan, and should not be carried past that.
    3) This does NOT math out a win. It creates what amounts to a very good "vote record." A database that can be referenced and analyzed later once Council members start dying.
    4) The more people who participate, the better the results. Nobody can make you do anything, though.

    What I was told to do was check out my padawan and have him report the results to the council. If they don't get results I will be considered sith and executed. That's a goddamn role call, plain and simple.

    Great plan, until my padawan is sith and just LIES to them, or until I am sith and just LIE to them. So no, I won't be doing what @Matev told me to do under threat of death, nor will I consider any such plan from the council an official act of the Jedi order until they have proven their worth and their allegiances.

    REG Rysk on
  • TheRoadVirusTheRoadVirus I will show you why hurricanes are named after peopleRegistered User regular
    REG Rysk wrote: »
    I think Matev may have been a little hasty in sending out PMs.

    There is more discussion that needs to be had on the Council boards. IF the plan goes forward as proposed on the boards, there are some really important parts I want to point out.

    1) People can and will lie about their results.
    2) This is only a "Day 1" plan, and should not be carried past that.
    3) This does NOT math out a win. It creates what amounts to a very good "vote record." A database that can be referenced and analyzed later once Council members start dying.
    4) The more people who participate, the better the results. Nobody can make you do anything, though.

    What I was told to do was check out my padawan and have him report the results to the council. If they don't get results I will be considered sith and executed. That's a goddamn role call, plain and simple.

    Great plan, until my padawan is sith and just LIES to them, or until I am sith and just LIE to them. So no, I won't be doing what @Matev told me to do under threat of death, nor will I consider any such plan from the council an official act of the Jedi order until they have proven their worth and their allegiances.

    They have just as much to prove as we do, I think.
    Hell, as they are in a position of power, they have MORE to prove than we do.
    Wouldn't the knights be better of investigating the council the first night? Then we know what is really going down with them? Two knights per council member, if we have the numbers. Differing results means one or more in the triangle is sith, perhaps?

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  • RetabaRetaba A Cultist Registered User regular
    I think whatever the council decides is worth consideration, at least. I doubt the majority of them are Sith. Also, yeah the way this whole thing was implement was bad.

    I had something else to put here but I forgot what it was... It'll come back to me.

  • Smoove OperatorSmoove Operator Registered User regular
    Matev told you to check your padawan? Thats...thats not at all what was discussed on our boards...

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  • MrTLiciousMrTLicious Registered User regular
    The council doesn't seem to have any extraordinary powers. I like Feckless' plan. It gets a large contingent confirmed and gets some planet points.

  • 38thDoe38thDoe lets never be stupid again wait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered User regular
    REG Rysk wrote: »
    I think Matev may have been a little hasty in sending out PMs.

    There is more discussion that needs to be had on the Council boards. IF the plan goes forward as proposed on the boards, there are some really important parts I want to point out.

    1) People can and will lie about their results.
    2) This is only a "Day 1" plan, and should not be carried past that.
    3) This does NOT math out a win. It creates what amounts to a very good "vote record." A database that can be referenced and analyzed later once Council members start dying.
    4) The more people who participate, the better the results. Nobody can make you do anything, though.

    What I was told to do was check out my padawan and have him report the results to the council. If they don't get results I will be considered sith and executed. That's a goddamn role call, plain and simple.

    Great plan, until my padawan is sith and just LIES to them, or until I am sith and just LIE to them. So no, I won't be doing what @Matev told me to do under threat of death, nor will I consider any such plan from the council an official act of the Jedi order until they have proven their worth and their allegiances.

    They have just as much to prove as we do, I think.
    Hell, as they are in a position of power, they have MORE to prove than we do.
    Wouldn't the knights be better of investigating the council the first night? Then we know what is really going down with them? Two knights per council member, if we have the numbers. Differing results means one or more in the triangle is sith, perhaps?

    This seems a much better plan.

    #NotMyHost

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  • Smoove OperatorSmoove Operator Registered User regular
    Errybody chill the force out!

    Something is amiss here. TRV's plan is much closer to what SHOULD have been sent out.

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  • RetabaRetaba A Cultist Registered User regular
    Oh right, the planets. The Sith are either going to focus on one planet a night or have some capabilities to counter their smaller numbers.

  • GaslightGaslight Registered User regular
    Well, this inspires confidence.

    TRV's idea seems good. This glorified role-call bullshit seems like...just that.

    1Slimus.jpg
  • SeGaTaiSeGaTai Registered User regular
    TRV's plan requires all 20 knights split perfectly between the 10 council members, leaving no knights focused on missions leaving the Sith to have at whatever planets they want. Unless I'm missing something that seems like a bad idea.

    PSN SeGaTai
  • Shiny New ToysShiny New Toys Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    MrTLicious wrote: »
    The council doesn't seem to have any extraordinary powers. I like Feckless' plan. It gets a large contingent confirmed and gets some planet points.

    What was Feckless' plan? I'm going to have to search the thread as I don't remember this.

    Okay found it, form small teams through soft networking and work together. If you start dying reveal your team mates to the tread for public scrutiny.
    The organisation of this would be difficult to do I feel.

    Also I don't really have a better plan atm

    Shiny New Toys on
  • 38thDoe38thDoe lets never be stupid again wait lets always be stupid foreverRegistered User regular
    SeGaTai wrote: »
    TRV's plan requires all 20 knights split perfectly between the 10 council members, leaving no knights focused on missions leaving the Sith to have at whatever planets they want. Unless I'm missing something that seems like a bad idea.

    So then do half the council a night for the first two night? Seems important to confirm them eventually.

    #NotMyHost

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  • MrTLiciousMrTLicious Registered User regular
    I'm not sure why everyone is stressed about confirming the council. They are likely the first to die. Then Knights become the council. IMO, confirm the Knights first, as they will be the new council, and it gives the current council more information in making appointment decisions.

  • CayrusCayrus Registered User regular
    Padawans! Are you tired of being ignored by the ancient and out-of-touch Council and ordered around on pointless mission to Hoth by your Master? Do you want to actually get out into the Galaxy and defend it from the vile Sith?

    Strike down your masters and take your rightful place in Galactic Affairs! Contact me via holonet and let's come up with our own plan to save the Galaxy!

    Former Secret Service Agent Nathaniel Ford in Call of Cthulhu: Whispers in the Darkness

    Henri Emmanuel Gratien St Pierre in Where No Man Has Gone Before

    Lord Augustus Cumberbatch in Eclipse Phase
  • MrTLiciousMrTLicious Registered User regular
    Also, keep in mind that performing a mission is just as likely to confirm someone as meditating.

  • TheRoadVirusTheRoadVirus I will show you why hurricanes are named after peopleRegistered User regular
    Well, we have three possible seer target groups.
    Council: What powers do they have? Replaced by knights
    Knights: Seer + planetary control abilities. Replaced by Padawans
    Padawans: Can support Knights, take place of knights when needed.

    Would it be a good idea to check out our padawans? If they can see our seer results and know exactly what we are doing, it may behoove us to confirm them

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  • ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Picking Kias as a welcome back present.

    INVALID VOTE

    Council Members are immune to the vote

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  • TheRoadVirusTheRoadVirus I will show you why hurricanes are named after peopleRegistered User regular
    Cayrus wrote: »
    Padawans! Are you tired of being ignored by the ancient and out-of-touch Council and ordered around on pointless mission to Hoth by your Master? Do you want to actually get out into the Galaxy and defend it from the vile Sith?

    Strike down your masters and take your rightful place in Galactic Affairs! Contact me via holonet and let's come up with our own plan to save the Galaxy!

    SweetmotherofSteveIrwinsStingRayproofvestsis_3af82752f6304ffdda12fa02fd01e629.jpg

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  • ObiFettObiFett Use the Force As You WishRegistered User regular
    Grudging for Phallakinetic sounds fine to me, but I don't think Retaba was the last mafia.

    Could have sworn the last mafia looked a lot more like Ketbra.

    INVALID VOTE

    The council is immune to the vote and can not be voted for.

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  • MrTLiciousMrTLicious Registered User regular
    Also, we may have publicly dashed any hopes of catching the mafia in a lie. I'm pretty sure the Sith Meditate ability is different than the Jedi one.

  • SaberOverEasySaberOverEasy Registered User regular
    After going back and forth, here are a few assumptions I think all of us need to be working from:

    1.) There is at least one Sith on the council. Whatever the council knows and plans, the Sith are aware of it.
    2.) There should be about 10 Sith overall. The most natural breakdown for them would be 2 on the council, 4 Knights and 4 padawans.
    3.) All of the Knights have the ability to meditate. This ability does the same thing for all of us.

    I think this leads to a few important points moving forward. First, the council needs to be be very transparent about their activities and orders. Instead of sending them out simply by PM, post what we all should be doing in the thread. Since we can assume the Sith already know it, the only people you are concealing things from by using PM are the regular Jedi. For Day 1, at least, we don't necessarily have anything to go on. Getting a very public record for us to dig through in the coming days would be very useful.

    Second, I think meditating on the council is not the best use of our day 1 actions. The host has already confirmed that there is "non-traditional" millers/thralls in this game. With all of the meditating we can do, I can't imagine that the Sith don't have some way of making themselves appear Jedi. If we focus on the council first, the Sith only need to protect TWO of their members. This would leave the rest of them to go out and take planets/do other nefarious deeds AND has a strong possibility of leaving us no better than we started.

    While I will go along with whatever the council's final decision, I think there are two plans that make the most sense:

    1.) Have each of the knights meditate on our padawan's and have each padawan assist. This forces the Sith to protect more of their team. It also allows the knights to know that they can trust their padawans. While a Sith could certainly lie about the results, it can at least narrow our search.

    2.) Break us up into teams of 12-15 and send us off to planets for missions. Assuming the Sith won't count towards Jedi control points, we can get a better sense of where some corruption might lie. And we should get some useful powers.

  • warbanwarban Who the Hoof do you think we are? Registered User regular

    1.) Have each of the knights meditate on our padawan's and have each padawan assist. This forces the Sith to protect more of their team. It also allows the knights to know that they can trust their padawans. While a Sith could certainly lie about the results, it can at least narrow our search.
    To add:

    There is nothing illegitimate about using a seer power that 40% of the village has. This is not a roll call. A roll call is checking off named characters or specials in the hopes of narrowing down a list of suspected mafia. This is a collective seering effort of Jedi Knights and it would be stupid to not attempt to draw what information we can out of this ability.

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  • warbanwarban Who the Hoof do you think we are? Registered User regular
    Also Bus Drivers.

    ACE ✰ PONY ✰ DETECTIVE!
  • MrTLiciousMrTLicious Registered User regular
    For 1, padawans assisting won't help. They already know their own alignment. They should contest other padawans to prevent them from contesting the seers.

    The problem with any public plan is that the Sith can simply counter it, and not necessarily in the way you expect. For example, look at what happened when the village thought about a mafia roleblock on Joker's ability in the ME phalla. Granted, it was mostly me that was freaking out and I was a cultist, but I think most of my points were valid in that discussion, or at least I would have made them as a villager (not the same thing). I think it's honestly best to keep your actions as discreet as possible. If your actions get messed up, you can pinpoint it to a small number of people that knew your plan.

  • Smoove OperatorSmoove Operator Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Ok, consider this a suggestion from Master Benubi. I am going to share here what I proposed on the Council boards last night. As of now, it does not have the Council seal of approval. Assuming that there is at least 1 Sith on the Council, they already know this information anyway.

    The Oobedoob Benubi Initiative:
    All Knights are assigned (randomly, see assignments below) to meditate on a Council Member (2 Knights per Council). All Padawans are to "Support" their Knight in Meditating. This gives 2 independent seers per Council, with a Padawan failsafe for each. All results should be posted publicly in the thread tomorrow.

    Of course people will lie about their results. The meditation results become a "voting record" of sorts to be analyzed later. Say the Knights assigned to me both claim I am Jedi. I later die and come up Sith. Well, now you've got 2 Knights (and Padawans that should have been tattling) to look at.

    Downside
    Spoiler:

    Assignments (NEW and IMPORTANT):
    Spoiler:

    Please discuss and pick apart this plan for all its logical flaws. We need to know if it won't work.

    Also, this same idea could be applied to Knights instead of Council members (as has been suggested). The only issue I have is that there won't be 2 Knights per target meditating. But if the Sith kill most of the Council tonight (we are under no false notions that we won't be leaving this mortal coil very very quickly), then its a problem that the first night was wasted meditating on a bunch of dead folks.

    Smoove Operator on
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  • SaberOverEasySaberOverEasy Registered User regular
    MrTLicious wrote: »
    For 1, padawans assisting won't help. They already know their own alignment. They should contest other padawans to prevent them from contesting the seers.

    The bigger reason I suggested padawan's assisting was they they can see the results of the action taken. It was more to make sure that the knight was actually doing the seering instead of something else. If the padawan assists and sees his own alignment, he at least knows his knight isn't getting into other trouble.

  • MrTLiciousMrTLicious Registered User regular
    The lines are killing me!

    Also, we literally have 20 seers. You have to expect that the Sith have some crazy ass abilities, particularly in interrupting any plans we might hatch publicly.

  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    MrTLicious wrote: »
    Also, we may have publicly dashed any hopes of catching the mafia in a lie. I'm pretty sure the Sith Meditate ability is different than the Jedi one.

    Surely they got cover roles, in a game where every villager shares the same abilities with ~50% of other villagers.

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  • Shiny New ToysShiny New Toys Registered User regular
    The Knights powers and the Padawan powers have been discussed a lot in the thread, maybe to much, but hey that cat is out of the bag. We don't really know what powers the council has. This doesn't mean that we should know, but an unelected force that cannot be removed democratically with unknown powers, I hope they are wise.

  • Smoove OperatorSmoove Operator Registered User regular
    warban wrote: »
    Also Bus Drivers.

    Yes, thats a big problem, too.

    Honesty, Integrity, Handshakefulness
    _____________________________________________
  • SaberOverEasySaberOverEasy Registered User regular
    MrTLicious wrote: »
    The lines are killing me!

    Also, we literally have 20 seers. You have to expect that the Sith have some crazy ass abilities, particularly in interrupting any plans we might hatch publicly.

    I'm actually very afraid of what sort of abilities the sith have to balance out all of our seering/vote immune/semi-masoning. That's one of the reasons I think spreading our efforts to a larger population instead of focusing on a very small one (the sith on the council) gives us the best chance of success.

  • MalkorMalkor Registered User regular
    The Knights powers and the Padawan powers have been discussed a lot in the thread, maybe to much, but hey that cat is out of the bag. We don't really know what powers the council has. This doesn't mean that we should know, but an unelected force that cannot be removed democratically with unknown powers, I hope they are wise.

    I tried to think of an image macro of someone laughing their ass off. Instead I refer you to your imaginations, because it is the best image macro board.

    14271f3c-c765-4e74-92b1-49d7612675f2.jpg
  • Smoove OperatorSmoove Operator Registered User regular
    This doesn't mean that we should know, but an unelected force that cannot be removed democratically with unknown powers, I hope they are wise.

    Jedi Council: a Force for good. A Force for YOU!
    /wink
    /thumbs up



    Honesty, Integrity, Handshakefulness
    _____________________________________________
  • MrTLiciousMrTLicious Registered User regular
    MrTLicious wrote: »
    For 1, padawans assisting won't help. They already know their own alignment. They should contest other padawans to prevent them from contesting the seers.

    The bigger reason I suggested padawan's assisting was they they can see the results of the action taken. It was more to make sure that the knight was actually doing the seering instead of something else. If the padawan assists and sees his own alignment, he at least knows his knight isn't getting into other trouble.

    All this tells them is the Knight went along with the plan rather than being revealed as a traitor. It doesn't confirm anything. Though I agree that the risk of being caught out will prevent them from taking planets, but I think the whole point of this plan is to sacrifice planets to try to gain knowledge of the player base.

    I think we need to be treating this more like Archer Phalla and less like, I don't know, whatever this is. Mini networks can form without public oversight and converge at appropriate times. The village is really, really, really powerful. The worst thing we can do is announce how our power is going to be used because, again, the Sith are probably really, really, really powerful.

  • Smoove OperatorSmoove Operator Registered User regular
    Ya, sorry about the lines. I tried using dashes for the assignment formatting. That made solid lines all the way across when I submitted. Should be fixed now.

    Honesty, Integrity, Handshakefulness
    _____________________________________________
  • MrTLiciousMrTLicious Registered User regular
    Publicly known (or even council-known) assignments are bad.

    You want to get the council involved? Assign each council member to two Knight/Padawan pairings. Have the 5 of them discuss actions together but not reveal it to the rest of the thread/council under orders are resolved.

  • kimekime Queen of Blades Registered User regular
    MrTLicious wrote: »
    Publicly known (or even council-known) assignments are bad.

    You want to get the council involved? Assign each council member to two Knight/Padawan pairings. Have the 5 of them discuss actions together but not reveal it to the rest of the thread/council under orders are resolved.

    I like that idea.

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  • Smoove OperatorSmoove Operator Registered User regular
    jdarksun wrote: »
    Please discuss and pick apart this plan for all its logical flaws. We need to know if it won't work.
    Flaws? At best, you've wasted a night.

    Most likely, the Sith have the Jedi power set. This means that any public organization can be counteracted by behaving as they're told. "Great!", you might say. "That means they're not accomplishing their objectives!"

    Wrong. I'd assume that they get kill powers (ie, the normal mafia ability) that does not utilize the subgame's action.

    So we make no progress towards the completion of secondary goals, but we prevent them from doing the same. Meanwhile, Night 1 happens as it does in any Phalla... which generally means dead villagers and no useful voting record.

    Conversely, if we break the Knights into strike forces and assign them goals, we make progress towards secondary objectives on the day when the vote isn't getting us anything. And, if we're clever about it, we can force the Sith to assist us or risk outing their Padawans.

    These are excellent points. I assumed the Sith have at least one group kill that's independent of the subgame. I also assume that's aimed squarely at the Council members.

    Maybe the Benubi Initiative isn't the optimal way to go about it, but there are 2/5 players with a seer ability! Something in my spider-sense tells me that there must be a way to leverage an en masse, public use of that power to either (1) catch Sith outright, or (2) use the public information to catch Sith in lies later.

    Honesty, Integrity, Handshakefulness
    _____________________________________________
  • Mr. Mojo RisinMr. Mojo Risin Registered User regular
    I agree with keeping things to small groups, the smaller the group the fewer possible suspects when things go sideways. Its a shame rawkking posted that padawan info as any sith padawans that werent given that as a cover can use it now.

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