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Posts

  • rpshoggothrpshoggoth Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Chocobolicious: "Dps meters never teach anyone anything except how to fap furiously at big numbers while ignoring being actually useful."
    Glal wrote: »
    I think you're taking this a bit personally.

    Most Likely =p

    *deep breath*

    Badwrong has had some great advice, and I'll probably end up with a parser of some sort, even if I have to hack the game. The potential I have seen in some videos is amazing. The ranged combat doesn't impress me as much, because I've been running and gunning for years, but some of the dancing I have seen warriors and slayers (big swords?) do is just a work of art. Elegant, deadly art.

    rpshoggoth on
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    playing a sorc definitely colors your experience because all you have to worry about is being just out of range where your spells still hit but the bosses don't, and not having that angry red face pop up.

  • grouch993grouch993 Registered User regular
    FightTest wrote: »
    Started to feel the grind tonight. Wanted to hit 28 for mana orbs, but at 27 I got three quests at a camp to kill 10/kill 10/kill 10. And all 3 mob types were right next to the camp, and all 3 mob types would respawn quickly. I sat there killing 30 mobs without moving more than a few feet and was like 'eeeeeeggghhhhh.'

    Maybe it's cooler as a dps class but as a mystic grinding 30 mobs in a row is just real fucking tedious. Ended up getting bored and logging out without hitting 28.

    I have been soloing my mystic through my 40s and into 50 (just last night). It isn't pretty. At my current rate it will take at least two more weeks to go from 50 to 60. And I suspect I am understating the time because the last few level takes 160 million or so XP. 47 to 48 took me four hours, 48 to 49 took six hours, 49 to 50 was five hours but there were a few story quest turn ins for three million each.

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  • rpshoggothrpshoggoth Registered User regular
    Is grouping/instancing not viable? I would hope a mystic would be highly sought after. Not as rare as a Lancer, but still.

  • BeltaineBeltaine The End of TimeRegistered User regular
    I tried to stay away... I really did... then Giantbomb did a quick look... and I opened my wallet...

    Installing now. *sigh*

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  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    instancing is more viable if anything because there are repeatable quests with large exp turn ins. you can't always be in a position to run an instance though, there is a 10 level gap between SM and CR.

    and I prefer mystics for the mana balls because sorcs run out of mana quite fast.

  • DelphinidaesDelphinidaes FFXIV: Delphi Kisaragi Registered User regular
    I don't see the point of a dps meter. I don't acre what my DPS is (As in I don't care what my damage per second is) I don't have the luxury of sitting there and running through an optimal rotation to maximize my deeps. I have to constantly reposition and get my hits in when I can. What hits I can get in and what I am able to do is dictated entirely by my current positioning and the bosses motions and actions.

    The other thing to consider is this: want to hone your rotation? Why not, oh I dunno, TEST TO SEE WHAT KILLS MOBS THE QUICKEST?! :P

    If you kill one mob in half the time it took for you to kill another of the same kind of mob, either you crit or you've found a better rotation and should probably keep using it.

    I play a slayer. I don't have a rotation. I have opportunities that vary from monster to monster. I don't really care much about how quickly I can kill little mobs, I care about how I can kill BAMS (I know you weren't referencing little mobs but I want to be clear on the distinction)

    Each BAM has it's own set of moves (while some are similar) and movements. I don't have the luxury of being able to cycle through a rotation because the battle is too fluid and based on reactions and anticipations. I use what abilities I can get off in the opportunities I can to use them. My decisions are based entirely on the moment and I may use a move that has less damage if I know I can get it off in time for me to dodge the next incoming attack.

    Because of this I personally would not find a DPS meter helpful as the information it gives me would be fundamentally flawed. What I DO find useful is paying attention to how much damage each of my abilities is doing and which ones I use more often and making sure I augment those abilities to be available more often and do more damage while costing me less mp.

    But I don't need a meter to tell me any of that.

    Again to be clear on my position, I don't mind DPS meters, I used them in WoW and made sure I was maximizing my DPS and rotations. I just don't really think Tera's gameplay lends itself to getting any real useful information out of a DPS meter personally.

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  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    rotation is being used lightly here. what it means is that you are using the right damage skills at the right time. like as a sorc arcane pulse is not the right damage skill to be using.. ever past a certain point

  • Kevin CristKevin Crist I never watch the stars there's so much down hereRegistered User regular
    I haven't been on in a few days because of real life stuff, might be on tonight though one of my computer's fans is quite loud at the moment. I'll get it fixed today.

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  • TheRealDestianTheRealDestian Registered User
    I just had an idea for how Tera's DPS meters should work:

    DPS done MINUS DPS taken should be the standard for judging someone's performance.

    That way, it encourages players to play the game properly instead of sacrificing health in favor of damage output.

  • KlykaKlyka DO you have any SPARE BATTERIES?Registered User regular
    Jars wrote: »
    rotation is being used lightly here. what it means is that you are using the right damage skills at the right time. like as a sorc arcane pulse is not the right damage skill to be using.. ever past a certain point

    I like charging it, I don't know, it feels good.

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  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    it gets dropped completely at 48. I have not really used it at all after fireblast. before then it was a pretty good aoe nuke if it managed to hit something.

  • BadwrongBadwrong Registered User regular
    I just had an idea for how Tera's DPS meters should work:

    DPS done MINUS DPS taken should be the standard for judging someone's performance.

    That way, it encourages players to play the game properly instead of sacrificing health in favor of damage output.

    Wouldn't work. What if someone is just taking tiny bits of damage, but at a constant rate and it adds up to more damage than the person who is being stupid and not avoiding the really big hits that cause the healer to work harder?

    Personally I would have absolutely no use for a DPS meter while actually fighting/grouping/raiding. The only thing it would be actually useful for would be to go try out stuff on a training dummy or some basic enemy. That way, when you are in combat you know what skills to use in what order when you have the opportunity. Like others have said, they don't care what DPS they are doing since they are moving a lot and don't really do a "rotation". But knowing exactly what to do when you do have time to attack is useful.

    I also see things way different since I'm playing a warrior. I can stay on a boss longer than any melee class. I dont have to run out unless the boss does a constant AOE, I can just time death from above and take zero damage. All the jumping around the boss does, I can teleport with backstab, dash, use half my moves as a mini-gap closer.. pounce, lunge. Tons of stuff that means I am constantly on the boss if I'm DPSing. Of course when I tank, non of this DPS shit matters as long as I hold aggro, instead I'm moving in and out of the front cleave range of the boss and negating strong attacks with death from above.

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  • ZzuluZzulu Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    I just leveled up my Sorc enough to get into the first instance... Man it's such a difference fighting a boss as a ranged character. I basically didn't take damage at all throughout the entire dungeon, even when fighting the bosses and I was mostly just zoning out, not even trying. Meanwhile the melee was forced to hop around and block and dodge stuff constantly. Does this dynamic change at all later? Because currently it felt so much easier with the Sorc compared to my meleers

    Zzulu on
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  • Kafka87Kafka87 Registered User regular
    Fuck this installer already. 33% done? Been running for 5 and a half hours?

    Useless.

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  • TPSouTPSou Registered User regular
    Jars wrote: »
    playing a sorc definitely colors your experience because all you have to worry about is being just out of range where your spells still hit but the bosses don't, and not having that angry red face pop up.

    I might seem stupid but what does that angry red face actually mean? I seem to see it every boss fight

  • LepwaveLepwave Registered User regular
    Been leveling up my archer and lancer, both are pretty fun so far.

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  • MyDcmbrMyDcmbr Registered User regular
    TPSou wrote: »
    Jars wrote: »
    playing a sorc definitely colors your experience because all you have to worry about is being just out of range where your spells still hit but the bosses don't, and not having that angry red face pop up.

    I might seem stupid but what does that angry red face actually mean? I seem to see it every boss fight

    Boss Enraged.

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  • FlipprDolphinFlipprDolphin Registered User
    Zzulu wrote: »
    I just leveled up my Sorc enough to get into the first instance... Man it's such a difference fighting a boss as a ranged character. I basically didn't take damage at all throughout the entire dungeon, even when fighting the bosses and I was mostly just zoning out, not even trying. Meanwhile the melee was forced to hop around and block and dodge stuff constantly. Does this dynamic change at all later? Because currently it felt so much easier with the Sorc compared to my meleers

    Thats why I am a Lancer. I think I would fall asleep as a ranged DPS in MMO games

  • TPSouTPSou Registered User regular
    Boss enraged? does that mean we're taking too long, or am I just doing something wrong? Sorc by the way.

    And for those other EU players I'm currently on Velik, would be keen to start a new guild really, at the moment I've got a 29 Sorc but I'm happy to roll a new character, wouldn't mind a lancer.

  • flammiebcflammiebc Registered User regular
    Zzulu wrote: »
    I just leveled up my Sorc enough to get into the first instance... Man it's such a difference fighting a boss as a ranged character. I basically didn't take damage at all throughout the entire dungeon, even when fighting the bosses and I was mostly just zoning out, not even trying. Meanwhile the melee was forced to hop around and block and dodge stuff constantly. Does this dynamic change at all later? Because currently it felt so much easier with the Sorc compared to my meleers

    Yes, there are BAMs (and bosses) that can cover a ton of ground very quickly later and like to charge in random directions: if you get hit by said charges as a squishy, you can get near one-shot. Fangspawns in Pora Elinu have no problems turning clothies into a pancake in one leap :)

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  • TheRealDestianTheRealDestian Registered User
    Badwrong wrote: »
    Wouldn't work. What if someone is just taking tiny bits of damage, but at a constant rate and it adds up to more damage than the person who is being stupid and not avoiding the really big hits that cause the healer to work harder?

    Total damage done vs. damage taken, I mean.

    DPS is less meaningful in Tera due to the amount of moving you have to do during boss fights, anyway.

  • Kafka87Kafka87 Registered User regular
    TPSou wrote: »
    Boss enraged? does that mean we're taking too long, or am I just doing something wrong? Sorc by the way.

    And for those other EU players I'm currently on Velik, would be keen to start a new guild really, at the moment I've got a 29 Sorc but I'm happy to roll a new character, wouldn't mind a lancer.

    I'll bring my healbot to Velik. When I get the stupid thing downloaded.

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  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    means he is going to drop some big attacks

    there are 2 faces you need to worry about I think. red face = watch out, orange face = you have agro

  • Toxic PickleToxic Pickle Registered User regular
    I really love the emoticons on BAMs. I don't even know why but I'm always amused when 'rage face' pops up and the monster turns and charges my way... like it's telling me, "I'm going to fucking GET YOU THIS TIME."

  • hoodie13hoodie13 Registered User regular
    Enraged is a state that some enemies enter after a while, it doesn't necessarily mean you're taking too long.

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  • SkyCaptainSkyCaptain Registered User regular
    I caved. Bought the game and it's downloading now. Gonna go to bed, let it download, and get a couple hours in before work tonight.

    The RPG Bestiary - Dangerous foes and legendary monsters for D&D 4th Edition
  • DelphinidaesDelphinidaes FFXIV: Delphi Kisaragi Registered User regular
    The enraged state is something BAMs enter and leave throughout the fight. It is a period where they typically are faster, do more damage and have shorter animation times.

    As others have said it's a giant "WATCH OUT" mode. Also you can get some crystals for your weapon to do increased damage if the BAM is enraged.

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  • WrenWren Registered User regular
    although some later bosses have actual enrage timers, so I've been told. we never reached the time though

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  • TPSouTPSou Registered User regular
    Kafka87 wrote: »
    TPSou wrote: »
    Boss enraged? does that mean we're taking too long, or am I just doing something wrong? Sorc by the way.

    And for those other EU players I'm currently on Velik, would be keen to start a new guild really, at the moment I've got a 29 Sorc but I'm happy to roll a new character, wouldn't mind a lancer.

    I'll bring my healbot to Velik. When I get the stupid thing downloaded.

    Awesome, send me a PM once you get set up and I'll join you with a new char.

    Anyone else on EU (Frogster loving) do the same and we'll get set up!

  • king awesomeking awesome Registered User regular
    Is the WANG guild on the PVP server? I'm on it but dont' see it in the guild list. Are most people playing the PvE server?

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  • DelphinidaesDelphinidaes FFXIV: Delphi Kisaragi Registered User regular
    Is the WANG guild on the PVP server? I'm on it but dont' see it in the guild list. Are most people playing the PvE server?

    WANG guild is on PvE Server Dragonfall. I don't know if PA has a presence on Valley of Titans.

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  • TornelcoTornelco Registered User regular
    Most of us our on the pve server Dragonfall.

  • JibbaJibba Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    I don't recall DPS meters ever being useful in WoW for pinning down a rotation. They were for bragging rights and to see who wasn't playing adequately, but it wasn't a way to find an optimal rotation, because the optimal rotations for every class were already known.

    If that's your goal, just releasing frame data would be a lot more useful, so we can see what the actual damage per frame is like and put it all together into a spreadsheet we did in WoW. There's too much variance in this game to make a meter particularly useful for that purpose, imo. Some Boss events are scripted, but others are just behavior based on certain criteria. Both existed in WoW as well, but I think the balance is more towards behavior in TERA, whereas it was more towards scripted events in WoW.

    I understand the idea of trying to monitor how well others are playing, but there's generally other ways to do that and I too fear that it would overly encourage the DPS-only mentality, which leads to more aggravation and unnecessary deaths. Now, if raids are ever released, then it might become impossible to track how others are playing without a DPS meter.

    Let me put it this way: DPS meters made me feel better, but they never made me play better. Their main use was just for judging people, mostly new recruits or ignorant players in PUGs. They'd be useful for that, but there are other ways to judge those.

    Jibba on
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    they weren't. they were used to see how you were doing. like typical dps for your gear is 5k higher than what you are doing you might want to make some adjustments, or if you pick up some new gear and now you are doing 2k more dps than last week on the same boss. people like being able to quantify their improvement and it is a common thing in many sports and activities.

  • destroyah87destroyah87 Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    I have to say, I'm havig a blast tanking dungeons and bams. The way blocking is entirely skill and timing based (gear plays a part, sure.) is such a breath of fresh air from the usual mmo combat.

    I tanked through 9+ bams for two different quests last night and every time I took damage, I knew it was my 'fault.' either I missed a block on a small hit, or I didn't stun during the windup to a big hit that I couldn't completely block. Having my performance and survivability be tied so closely
    to my performance is a fantastic motivator for me to continue to improve.

    Also, I love having my stuns. Just so satisfying to completely stop a big aoe stomp or long chain of hits.

    destroyah87 on
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  • JibbaJibba Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    Jars wrote: »
    they weren't. they were used to see how you were doing. like typical dps for your gear is 5k higher than what you are doing you might want to make some adjustments, or if you pick up some new gear and now you are doing 2k more dps than last week on the same boss. people like being able to quantify their improvement and it is a common thing in many sports and activities.
    I don't think that was ever an issue for me. I'd imagine the people who were concerned about current DPS and potential DPS would've already been well read enough to know how they should play their class.

    I don't think everything that gets streamlined is an improvement.

    Jibba on
  • JarsJars Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    what you are saying is akin to telling a runner who is interested in going for best times that he shouldn't bother timing himself because he will 'know' that he is getting faster. I feel like none of you have ever done any sort of sport like swimming or running or weight lifting. I did swimming for 11 years and best times are everything in swimming.

    Jars on
  • japhjaph Registered User regular
    Slow moving unicorns piss me off.

  • JibbaJibba Registered User regular
    edited May 2012
    A marathon layout isn't randomly generated, street by street.

    How you do from encounter to encounter can swing so wildly that there's a good chance luck will play a greater roll than tiny adjustments. On top of that, there is no prize for #1 in this game. The only prize if for finishing content, and I don't believe damage meters help individuals do more damage.

    They help guild leaders pick recruits, raid leaders find weaknesses, and help people puff out their chest. As someone who has gotten to puff out their chest a lot, in a lot of bleeding edge content, I think the mentality is annoying and at times counter productive.

    Jibba on
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