I need your help. I need to be talked down off the p2w ledge. This whole thing with the YLW being MC-only combined with them removing the closest grindable variant is really bothering me. I'm trying to stay rational, and I'm completely open to (and probably biased towards) being convinced otherwise. But having a mech with a unique hardpoint layout behind a pay-wall really screams P2W to me. What happens when the next "testbed" that gets replaced with a hero mech is the Gausscat or the Reaper? The precedent this sets just doesn't feel like a good one. You're buying something with the potential to bestow an in-game advantage not available otherwise. That's the absolute definition of p2w.
Honestly, it's going to be an ongoing thing. There's always going to be new 'mechs, and sooner or later there will be something better than the Reaper. Just like we'll always have new hero 'mechs, we'll always have new regular 'mechs. Yes, there's a practical limit, but they'll never get to a point where all you have are hero 'mechs, and if the point ever comes that the only 'mechs worth running are hero, well, then they'll lose players.
I need your help. I need to be talked down off the p2w ledge. This whole thing with the YLW being MC-only combined with them removing the closest grindable variant is really bothering me. I'm trying to stay rational, and I'm completely open to (and probably biased towards) being convinced otherwise. But having a mech with a unique hardpoint layout behind a pay-wall really screams P2W to me. What happens when the next "testbed" that gets replaced with a hero mech is the Gausscat or the Reaper? The precedent this sets just doesn't feel like a good one. You're buying something with the potential to bestow an in-game advantage not available otherwise. That's the absolute definition of p2w.
It is a bit concerning, but I'm not ready to jump off of the ledge just yet. I think it was shady to remove the AH variant, and the ability for the YLW to run a 300XL (while everyone else is stuck at 260) doesn't sit right with me. That said, the YLW is not particularly better than other builds, at least with the current implementation of the AC/20. I'm more nonplussed by the removal of the variant TBH.
I'll be right ticked off if they continue this trend of locking already-played variants behind paywalls though. It does have the stench of P2W, whether or not it's particularly effective in the "W" department.
The new jump jets and lack of leg damage from falling are my new favourite things. Need to worry waaaay less about saving fuel for landing now. I foresee great shenanigans ahead.
what new jump jets? How did they change them?
I think he means how before, many people felt it basically didn't matter how many jump jets you had, just one would still give you max jump range.
Did they actually fix that though?
That's what I'm asking about.
It might have been a placebo effect, but takeoff seems a lot smoother. More thrust for your buck as it were. The main thing now is unless youre landing from well over an atlas height with no landing thrust you aren't going to take any damage to your legs. Means using them in combat will be a lot easier.
Oh and I'm pretty sure they haven't fixed the only needing one jump jet bug. Yay!
FWIW, this is exactly how the premium tanks in WoT work (although they never strayed into the realm of "converting" a regular tank to a premium one, which is sort of what happened with the YLW). They have unique advantages - each one does something that other tanks in the same class & tier don't do, like having an especially heavily-armored turret or really good gun - but those advantages are balanced by enough downsides that on the whole, they usually are on par with, or slightly worse than, their non-premium peers. It does walk a bit of a line, but it's worked out fine in WoT. PGI so far has seemed pretty strongly committed to keeping things from wandering into pay-to-win territory, to a greater extent than Wargaming in fact, so I'm reasonably confident that it won't become a problem.
As for the removal of the AH, my best guess is that this was largely the result of bad planning. They probably told the art guys to go ahead and put out all the Centurion variants before they'd really finished nailing down how they were going to do Hero 'Mechs. Hopefully they can see that it looks kinda gross to do what they did in this case and will steer clear of it in the future.
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kaliyamaLeft to find less-moderated foraRegistered Userregular
I need your help. I need to be talked down off the p2w ledge. This whole thing with the YLW being MC-only combined with them removing the closest grindable variant is really bothering me. I'm trying to stay rational, and I'm completely open to (and probably biased towards) being convinced otherwise. But having a mech with a unique hardpoint layout behind a pay-wall really screams P2W to me. What happens when the next "testbed" that gets replaced with a hero mech is the Gausscat or the Reaper? The precedent this sets just doesn't feel like a good one. You're buying something with the potential to bestow an in-game advantage not available otherwise. That's the absolute definition of p2w.
It is a bit concerning, but I'm not ready to jump off of the ledge just yet. I think it was shady to remove the AH variant, and the ability for the YLW to run a 300XL (while everyone else is stuck at 260) doesn't sit right with me. That said, the YLW is not particularly better than other builds, at least with the current implementation of the AC/20. I'm more nonplussed by the removal of the variant TBH.
I'll be right ticked off if they continue this trend of locking already-played variants behind paywalls though. It does have the stench of P2W, whether or not it's particularly effective in the "W" department.
Yeah, removing the CN9-AH is pretty indefensible, but end of the day I ask myself: can i play the game at the price point I want to play it at and be treated fairly? If the answer is yes, I don't really care if the devs do things I find icky. They need to monetize or there's no game at all.
Doesn't the YLW drop a lower arm actuator and any missile hardpoint for a second balistic hardpoint, the ability to mount an AC/20, and a slightly higher engine range?
Sounds to me like another mech for differing playstyle choices, not something that is a clear advantage over other meds/Centurions. It sucks that they removed the -AH (especially since I felt that there would people would have still picked the YLW over the -AH with thier MC, if only because the YLW can zombie better) but as long as that part of this whole thing isn't going to be the standard from here on out, I can live with premium mechs like that.
IMHO, having the YLW in addition to the normal Centurion variant seems OK. The YLW would have its quirks, but you wouldn't completely remove the option of running "similar" builds without needing MC. The fact that they removed the option is what is killing them right now.
FWIW, this is exactly how the premium tanks in WoT work (although they never strayed into the realm of "converting" a regular tank to a premium one, which is sort of what happened with the YLW). They have unique advantages - each one does something that other tanks in the same class & tier don't do, like having an especially heavily-armored turret or really good gun - but those advantages are balanced by enough downsides that on the whole, they usually are on par with, or slightly worse than, their non-premium peers. It does walk a bit of a line, but it's worked out fine in WoT. PGI so far has seemed pretty strongly committed to keeping things from wandering into pay-to-win territory, to a greater extent than Wargaming in fact, so I'm reasonably confident that it won't become a problem.
As for the removal of the AH, my best guess is that this was largely the result of bad planning. They probably told the art guys to go ahead and put out all the Centurion variants before they'd really finished nailing down how they were going to do Hero 'Mechs. Hopefully they can see that it looks kinda gross to do what they did in this case and will steer clear of it in the future.
This is the exact kind of response I was hoping for. I have zero experience with WoT, so hearing that they were able to keep things fair while including unique loadouts behind a pay-wall makes me feel a bit better. They're still walking a dangerous line I wish they wouldn't (and that games like LoL have proven aren't necessary to monetize a f2p game), so I guess I'm remain cautiously optimistic for now.
IMHO, having the YLW in addition to the normal Centurion variant seems OK. The YLW would have its quirks, but you wouldn't completely remove the option of running "similar" builds without needing MC. The fact that they removed the option is what is killing them right now.
This. I have no objection to YLW or the idea of "Hero" 'mechs in general, I assumed we would get something like World of Tanks' premium tanks eventually. But the removal of an existing canon variant, and bullshit explanation, just makes them look shady.
There is also the fact that the YLW gives a bigger C-bill bonus than the Founders 'mechs, which upsets some people and I can sort of understand why, though I think this is a minor issue comparatively.
Also, whenever P2W comes up, I feel compeled to post This.
It's a presentation about Battlefield:Heroes, when they ampted up the grind started adding premium weapons. Very interesting, albeit a bit disconcerting.
I actually didn't realize the YLW could take a bigger engine. That's bothersome. Although the forthcoming CN9-D will have a 300XL stock.
The really bothersome part is that makes it the only Medium 'mech that can run a 300XL and an AC20.
Easy does it. That doesn't necessarily make it better, just different. There's nothing inherently gross in offering certain gameplay options only to paying players, at least in my opinion. The problem is when they're more powerful than the free options.
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CarbonFireSee youin the countryRegistered Userregular
Case in point. This could be a Hero mech in the future...
acidlacedpenguinInstitutionalizedSafe in jail.Registered Userregular
edited October 2012
The problem with adding YLW and removing the other is that it means you can't master the centurion without paying real money.
edit: there were only 3 variants of the centurion, right?
The problem with adding YLW and removing the other is that it means you can't master the centurion without paying real money.
edit: there were only 3 variants of the centurion, right?
They're going to add the CN9-D in early November, supposedly.
meh, only 85 points of damage to shave off each arm. Granted, it'll probably have streak 6s (since those were available by the time the ERMLas was), but still, doable.
I firmly believe there's no 'mech that cannot be dealt with through strategy. It's the nature of the game.
The problem with adding YLW and removing the other is that it means you can't master the centurion without paying real money.
edit: there were only 3 variants of the centurion, right?
Pre YLW, there was the CN9-A, CN9-AL, CN9-AH, and they're adding the CN9-D soon.
The problem with adding YLW and removing the other is that it means you can't master the centurion without paying real money.
edit: there were only 3 variants of the centurion, right?
I think the D was in as well, and they took that out until they get Artemis IV working? Could be wrong, maybe it was just the three variants. In any case, they will be adding the D (or restoring it, whatever) once Artemis IV is in, so you'll be able to master it for free once again.
Generally speaking, I assume they intend to always allow mastering of a chassis without buying a premium variant. I haven't seen them comment on the issue since it's never come up before, but given that it's the case with every single 'Mech currently in the game I would be surprised if they deviate from that in the future.
The problem with adding YLW and removing the other is that it means you can't master the centurion without paying real money.
edit: there were only 3 variants of the centurion, right?
They're going to add the CN9-D in early November, supposedly.
Would you have a problem with pay2win mechs
if the variants of premium mechs were balanced on each team?
It would mitigate my fear, but not remove it.
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acidlacedpenguinInstitutionalizedSafe in jail.Registered Userregular
A month ago I'd have been fine with "It's coming in the future"
With the way patches (and more specifically) communications about patches have been handled recently I'm a little more weary with just taking their word for it.
I actually didn't realize the YLW could take a bigger engine. That's bothersome. Although the forthcoming CN9-D will have a 300XL stock.
The really bothersome part is that makes it the only Medium 'mech that can run a 300XL and an AC20.
Easy does it. That doesn't necessarily make it better, just different. There's nothing inherently gross in offering certain gameplay options only to paying players, at least in my opinion. The problem is when they're more powerful than the free options.
Making the fastest variant of a particular mech also happen to be the only one capable of carrying the most powerful weapon may not be an auto-win button. But I'm having a hard time not seeing it as an advantage.
I actually didn't realize the YLW could take a bigger engine. That's bothersome. Although the forthcoming CN9-D will have a 300XL stock.
The really bothersome part is that makes it the only Medium 'mech that can run a 300XL and an AC20.
Easy does it. That doesn't necessarily make it better, just different. There's nothing inherently gross in offering certain gameplay options only to paying players, at least in my opinion. The problem is when they're more powerful than the free options.
Making the fastest variant of a particular mech also happen to be the only one capable of carrying the most powerful weapon may not be an auto-win button. But I'm having a hard time not seeing it as an advantage.
The RA of a Centurion is pretty easy to hit, especially if he doesn't put the left side of his body in the way and use max twisting or freeaim keep firing, which the YLW can't since they had to take out the lower arm actuator that allows for horizontal arm movement to be able to fit an AC/20 in the first place, which also mean it has and even worse time of tracking lights that other Centurion mechs as well.
...and when he loses that arm, he loses about 80% of his firepower, just like pretty much every Huncback variant except for the 4SP when they lost thier RT. The other Centurion variants don't suffer from this, since they usually have two or three launcher slots in thier LT that they can still use when the right arm goes.
So yeah, you can carry a really big gun and move pretty fast, but that's pretty much all you are: a really big gun that can move pretty fast, with a couple of MLASs you can zombie with when you lose that really big gun.
I actually didn't realize the YLW could take a bigger engine. That's bothersome. Although the forthcoming CN9-D will have a 300XL stock.
The really bothersome part is that makes it the only Medium 'mech that can run a 300XL and an AC20.
Easy does it. That doesn't necessarily make it better, just different. There's nothing inherently gross in offering certain gameplay options only to paying players, at least in my opinion. The problem is when they're more powerful than the free options.
Making the fastest variant of a particular mech also happen to be the only one capable of carrying the most powerful weapon may not be an auto-win button. But I'm having a hard time not seeing it as an advantage.
Well, if I thought the AC20 was indisputably the "most powerful weapon" I'd agree, but I don't think that it is. At all. It's good enough to be worth using, but I don't think it clearly outperforms most other weapons. It's a specialist tool, good in some situations and bad in others.
Basically the YLW is, perhaps, the best currently-available medium AC20 platform. It excels at that one part of the game. But the Swayback will always be a better energy boat, for example. This is what I was getting at with the comparison to WoT premium tanks, and my post that you quoted above: As long as the premium options are balanced overall with the free options it works out, even if they're the best at their particular niche. It becomes a problem if a premium choice is not just best at its specific role, but also out-competes the free options at what they're supposed to be used for. So if the YLW obsoleted a huge swath of the medium 'Mech line up in one go, then yes, that would be bad.
I actually didn't realize the YLW could take a bigger engine. That's bothersome. Although the forthcoming CN9-D will have a 300XL stock.
The really bothersome part is that makes it the only Medium 'mech that can run a 300XL and an AC20.
Easy does it. That doesn't necessarily make it better, just different. There's nothing inherently gross in offering certain gameplay options only to paying players, at least in my opinion. The problem is when they're more powerful than the free options.
Making the fastest variant of a particular mech also happen to be the only one capable of carrying the most powerful weapon may not be an auto-win button. But I'm having a hard time not seeing it as an advantage.
The RA of a Centurion is pretty easy to hit, especially if he doesn't put the left side of his body in the way and use max twisting or freeaim keep firing, which the YLW can't since they had to take out the lower arm actuator that allows for horizontal arm movement to be able to fit an AC/20 in the first place, which also mean it has and even worse time of tracking lights that other Centurion mechs as well.
...and when he loses that arm, he loses about 80% of his firepower, just like pretty much every Huncback variant except for the 4SP when they lost thier RT. The other Centurion variants don't suffer from this, since they usually have two or three launcher slots in thier LT that they can still using when the right arm goes.
So yeah, you can carry a really big gun and move pretty fast, but that's pretty much all you are: a really big gun that can move pretty fast, with a couple of MLASs you can zombie with when you lose that really big gun.
Lose the arm? Lose most of your damage. Lose a torso? Lose your 300XL. If it could fit an engine that no other mech could equip, like a 450 or whatever, I could see that being P2W territory.
This comes down to where you consider the line at. For me "Equipping something other Centurions can't" isn't pay to win. "Equipping something no Cbill purchaseable mechs can" is.
That's where my line is. Yours may be different. Hey, that's fine. I just don't think it dooms the game or set a bad precedent. The removal of the fully functional variant is balls, I'll concede that.
I guess these sorts of games are already
haveTime2win or haveFriends2win or haveLuck2win
and the only way to win 50% of the time is to be
matched with equivalently friendless, timeless, or spendless opponents.
Basically, the only way to actually win all the time is to
possess all the above; so why not count your blessings and expect a 50% W/L ratio.
I actually didn't realize the YLW could take a bigger engine. That's bothersome. Although the forthcoming CN9-D will have a 300XL stock.
The really bothersome part is that makes it the only Medium 'mech that can run a 300XL and an AC20.
Easy does it. That doesn't necessarily make it better, just different. There's nothing inherently gross in offering certain gameplay options only to paying players, at least in my opinion. The problem is when they're more powerful than the free options.
Making the fastest variant of a particular mech also happen to be the only one capable of carrying the most powerful weapon may not be an auto-win button. But I'm having a hard time not seeing it as an advantage.
The RA of a Centurion is pretty easy to hit, especially if he doesn't put the left side of his body in the way and use max twisting or freeaim keep firing, which the YLW can't since they had to take out the lower arm actuator that allows for horizontal arm movement to be able to fit an AC/20 in the first place, which also mean it has and even worse time of tracking lights that other Centurion mechs as well.
...and when he loses that arm, he loses about 80% of his firepower, just like pretty much every Huncback variant except for the 4SP when they lost thier RT. The other Centurion variants don't suffer from this, since they usually have two or three launcher slots in thier LT that they can still use when the right arm goes.
So yeah, you can carry a really big gun and move pretty fast, but that's pretty much all you are: a really big gun that can move pretty fast, with a couple of MLASs you can zombie with when you lose that really big gun.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't @Ninja Snarl P been running an AC20 Cent prior to the YLW? Maybe he'd like to weigh in on whether or not adding an XL300 engine to that build would be an advantage or not.
I actually didn't realize the YLW could take a bigger engine. That's bothersome. Although the forthcoming CN9-D will have a 300XL stock.
The really bothersome part is that makes it the only Medium 'mech that can run a 300XL and an AC20.
Easy does it. That doesn't necessarily make it better, just different. There's nothing inherently gross in offering certain gameplay options only to paying players, at least in my opinion. The problem is when they're more powerful than the free options.
Making the fastest variant of a particular mech also happen to be the only one capable of carrying the most powerful weapon may not be an auto-win button. But I'm having a hard time not seeing it as an advantage.
The RA of a Centurion is pretty easy to hit, especially if he doesn't put the left side of his body in the way and use max twisting or freeaim keep firing, which the YLW can't since they had to take out the lower arm actuator that allows for horizontal arm movement to be able to fit an AC/20 in the first place, which also mean it has and even worse time of tracking lights that other Centurion mechs as well.
...and when he loses that arm, he loses about 80% of his firepower, just like pretty much every Huncback variant except for the 4SP when they lost thier RT. The other Centurion variants don't suffer from this, since they usually have two or three launcher slots in thier LT that they can still use when the right arm goes.
So yeah, you can carry a really big gun and move pretty fast, but that's pretty much all you are: a really big gun that can move pretty fast, with a couple of MLASs you can zombie with when you lose that really big gun.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't @Ninja Snarl P been running an AC20 Cent prior to the YLW? Maybe he'd like to weigh in on whether or not adding an XL300 engine to that build would be an advantage or not.
I actually didn't realize the YLW could take a bigger engine. That's bothersome. Although the forthcoming CN9-D will have a 300XL stock.
The really bothersome part is that makes it the only Medium 'mech that can run a 300XL and an AC20.
Easy does it. That doesn't necessarily make it better, just different. There's nothing inherently gross in offering certain gameplay options only to paying players, at least in my opinion. The problem is when they're more powerful than the free options.
Making the fastest variant of a particular mech also happen to be the only one capable of carrying the most powerful weapon may not be an auto-win button. But I'm having a hard time not seeing it as an advantage.
The RA of a Centurion is pretty easy to hit, especially if he doesn't put the left side of his body in the way and use max twisting or freeaim keep firing, which the YLW can't since they had to take out the lower arm actuator that allows for horizontal arm movement to be able to fit an AC/20 in the first place, which also mean it has and even worse time of tracking lights that other Centurion mechs as well.
...and when he loses that arm, he loses about 80% of his firepower, just like pretty much every Huncback variant except for the 4SP when they lost thier RT. The other Centurion variants don't suffer from this, since they usually have two or three launcher slots in thier LT that they can still using when the right arm goes.
So yeah, you can carry a really big gun and move pretty fast, but that's pretty much all you are: a really big gun that can move pretty fast, with a couple of MLASs you can zombie with when you lose that really big gun.
Lose the arm? Lose most of your damage. Lose a torso? Lose your 300XL. If it could fit an engine that no other mech could equip, like a 450 or whatever, I could see that being P2W territory.
This comes down to where you consider the line at. For me "Equipping something other Centurions can't" isn't pay to win. "Equipping something no Cbill purchaseable mechs can" is.
That's where my line is. Yours may be different. Hey, that's fine. I just don't think it dooms the game or set a bad precedent. The removal of the fully functional variant is balls, I'll concede that.
And the only way to fairly compare the relative worth of a mech is to compare it to its weight class. So the YLW is the only medium that can run an XL300 with an AC20. And it's behind a pay-wall.
And isn't the assumption that we'll probably get a hero for every chassis? I'm not worried about the YLW being some kind of juggernaut. But what happens when there's a variant of each mech behind a pay wall that can do something no other variant of that chassis can do? I'm not going to throw myself in front of a train just yet because I'll give PGI the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong. But I am worried about it.
The main issue is that the CN9-AH was pulled out of circulation and replaced with the YLW. Like someone in the Beta Forums thread mentioned, what happens when they introduce the one Catapult hero variant, which is based off the CPLT-C1. AKA: The standard variant.
Can you imagine not being able to use the most basic variant of a mech?
Fair enough. I just think, given the hardpoint system, the 300XL isn't enough to push it into p2w territory for me. You could make the case of it being "Pay for advantage" as opposed to an I Win platform.
I much prefer the gauss over the AC/20 anyhow, the AC/20 produces too much heat with not enough range. I know I'm not alone in that.
Is there a medium that can carry a gauss? (honest question because I really don't know)
The guass uses less crit slots than the AC/20. Any mech than can carry a ballistic slot can carry a Guass AND an XL engine. So all mediums with ballistic slots.
Fair enough. I just think, given the hardpoint system, the 300XL isn't enough to push it into p2w territory for me. You could make the case of it being "Pay for advantage" as opposed to an I Win platform.
Yeah, I think the YLW is pretty clearly p4a. And if all of the hero mechs can walk that incredibly thin line, it won't be the end of the world. But that's an enormous "if".
I much prefer the gauss over the AC/20 anyhow, the AC/20 produces too much heat with not enough range. I know I'm not alone in that.
Is there a medium that can carry a gauss? (honest question because I really don't know)
Yes. I used to run a Hunch 4G with a Gauss instead of an AC20. I've also run it on the other Centurions in the arm. The Gauss is heavier than an AC/20, but takes up less space.
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Honestly, it's going to be an ongoing thing. There's always going to be new 'mechs, and sooner or later there will be something better than the Reaper. Just like we'll always have new hero 'mechs, we'll always have new regular 'mechs. Yes, there's a practical limit, but they'll never get to a point where all you have are hero 'mechs, and if the point ever comes that the only 'mechs worth running are hero, well, then they'll lose players.
I see you've been reading THIS THREAD
It is a bit concerning, but I'm not ready to jump off of the ledge just yet. I think it was shady to remove the AH variant, and the ability for the YLW to run a 300XL (while everyone else is stuck at 260) doesn't sit right with me. That said, the YLW is not particularly better than other builds, at least with the current implementation of the AC/20. I'm more nonplussed by the removal of the variant TBH.
I'll be right ticked off if they continue this trend of locking already-played variants behind paywalls though. It does have the stench of P2W, whether or not it's particularly effective in the "W" department.
It might have been a placebo effect, but takeoff seems a lot smoother. More thrust for your buck as it were. The main thing now is unless youre landing from well over an atlas height with no landing thrust you aren't going to take any damage to your legs. Means using them in combat will be a lot easier.
Oh and I'm pretty sure they haven't fixed the only needing one jump jet bug. Yay!
http://steamcommunity.com/id/pablocampy
As for the removal of the AH, my best guess is that this was largely the result of bad planning. They probably told the art guys to go ahead and put out all the Centurion variants before they'd really finished nailing down how they were going to do Hero 'Mechs. Hopefully they can see that it looks kinda gross to do what they did in this case and will steer clear of it in the future.
Yeah, removing the CN9-AH is pretty indefensible, but end of the day I ask myself: can i play the game at the price point I want to play it at and be treated fairly? If the answer is yes, I don't really care if the devs do things I find icky. They need to monetize or there's no game at all.
Sounds to me like another mech for differing playstyle choices, not something that is a clear advantage over other meds/Centurions. It sucks that they removed the -AH (especially since I felt that there would people would have still picked the YLW over the -AH with thier MC, if only because the YLW can zombie better) but as long as that part of this whole thing isn't going to be the standard from here on out, I can live with premium mechs like that.
The really bothersome part is that makes it the only Medium 'mech that can run a 300XL and an AC20.
This is the exact kind of response I was hoping for. I have zero experience with WoT, so hearing that they were able to keep things fair while including unique loadouts behind a pay-wall makes me feel a bit better. They're still walking a dangerous line I wish they wouldn't (and that games like LoL have proven aren't necessary to monetize a f2p game), so I guess I'm remain cautiously optimistic for now.
This. I have no objection to YLW or the idea of "Hero" 'mechs in general, I assumed we would get something like World of Tanks' premium tanks eventually. But the removal of an existing canon variant, and bullshit explanation, just makes them look shady.
There is also the fact that the YLW gives a bigger C-bill bonus than the Founders 'mechs, which upsets some people and I can sort of understand why, though I think this is a minor issue comparatively.
It's a presentation about Battlefield:Heroes, when they ampted up the grind started adding premium weapons. Very interesting, albeit a bit disconcerting.
Easy does it. That doesn't necessarily make it better, just different. There's nothing inherently gross in offering certain gameplay options only to paying players, at least in my opinion. The problem is when they're more powerful than the free options.
AS7-K2 Atlas Jedra
Loadout:
2 SRM Launchers (LT, RT)
3 ER MLAS (LT, CT, RT)
2 Gauss Rifles (LA, RA)
Wouldn't THAT be a fun Mech to face.....
edit: there were only 3 variants of the centurion, right?
if the variants of premium mechs were balanced on each team?
They're going to add the CN9-D in early November, supposedly.
meh, only 85 points of damage to shave off each arm. Granted, it'll probably have streak 6s (since those were available by the time the ERMLas was), but still, doable.
I firmly believe there's no 'mech that cannot be dealt with through strategy. It's the nature of the game.
Pre YLW, there was the CN9-A, CN9-AL, CN9-AH, and they're adding the CN9-D soon.
Generally speaking, I assume they intend to always allow mastering of a chassis without buying a premium variant. I haven't seen them comment on the issue since it's never come up before, but given that it's the case with every single 'Mech currently in the game I would be surprised if they deviate from that in the future.
Yeah its coming back with the artemis IV system.
It would mitigate my fear, but not remove it.
With the way patches (and more specifically) communications about patches have been handled recently I'm a little more weary with just taking their word for it.
Making the fastest variant of a particular mech also happen to be the only one capable of carrying the most powerful weapon may not be an auto-win button. But I'm having a hard time not seeing it as an advantage.
The RA of a Centurion is pretty easy to hit, especially if he doesn't put the left side of his body in the way and use max twisting or freeaim keep firing, which the YLW can't since they had to take out the lower arm actuator that allows for horizontal arm movement to be able to fit an AC/20 in the first place, which also mean it has and even worse time of tracking lights that other Centurion mechs as well.
...and when he loses that arm, he loses about 80% of his firepower, just like pretty much every Huncback variant except for the 4SP when they lost thier RT. The other Centurion variants don't suffer from this, since they usually have two or three launcher slots in thier LT that they can still use when the right arm goes.
So yeah, you can carry a really big gun and move pretty fast, but that's pretty much all you are: a really big gun that can move pretty fast, with a couple of MLASs you can zombie with when you lose that really big gun.
Well, if I thought the AC20 was indisputably the "most powerful weapon" I'd agree, but I don't think that it is. At all. It's good enough to be worth using, but I don't think it clearly outperforms most other weapons. It's a specialist tool, good in some situations and bad in others.
Basically the YLW is, perhaps, the best currently-available medium AC20 platform. It excels at that one part of the game. But the Swayback will always be a better energy boat, for example. This is what I was getting at with the comparison to WoT premium tanks, and my post that you quoted above: As long as the premium options are balanced overall with the free options it works out, even if they're the best at their particular niche. It becomes a problem if a premium choice is not just best at its specific role, but also out-competes the free options at what they're supposed to be used for. So if the YLW obsoleted a huge swath of the medium 'Mech line up in one go, then yes, that would be bad.
Sending out a big "Thanks!" to DaMoonRulz for the gift of sweet sweet coconut monkey action.
Lose the arm? Lose most of your damage. Lose a torso? Lose your 300XL. If it could fit an engine that no other mech could equip, like a 450 or whatever, I could see that being P2W territory.
This comes down to where you consider the line at. For me "Equipping something other Centurions can't" isn't pay to win. "Equipping something no Cbill purchaseable mechs can" is.
That's where my line is. Yours may be different. Hey, that's fine. I just don't think it dooms the game or set a bad precedent. The removal of the fully functional variant is balls, I'll concede that.
haveTime2win or haveFriends2win or haveLuck2win
and the only way to win 50% of the time is to be
matched with equivalently friendless, timeless, or spendless opponents.
Basically, the only way to actually win all the time is to
possess all the above; so why not count your blessings and expect a 50% W/L ratio.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't @Ninja Snarl P been running an AC20 Cent prior to the YLW? Maybe he'd like to weigh in on whether or not adding an XL300 engine to that build would be an advantage or not.
Keep in mind, XL weight is heavier now as well.
And the only way to fairly compare the relative worth of a mech is to compare it to its weight class. So the YLW is the only medium that can run an XL300 with an AC20. And it's behind a pay-wall.
And isn't the assumption that we'll probably get a hero for every chassis? I'm not worried about the YLW being some kind of juggernaut. But what happens when there's a variant of each mech behind a pay wall that can do something no other variant of that chassis can do? I'm not going to throw myself in front of a train just yet because I'll give PGI the benefit of the doubt until proven wrong. But I am worried about it.
Is there a medium that can carry a gauss? (honest question because I really don't know)
Can you imagine not being able to use the most basic variant of a mech?
The guass uses less crit slots than the AC/20. Any mech than can carry a ballistic slot can carry a Guass AND an XL engine. So all mediums with ballistic slots.
Yeah, I think the YLW is pretty clearly p4a. And if all of the hero mechs can walk that incredibly thin line, it won't be the end of the world. But that's an enormous "if".
Yes. I used to run a Hunch 4G with a Gauss instead of an AC20. I've also run it on the other Centurions in the arm. The Gauss is heavier than an AC/20, but takes up less space.