I don't know how much of this is going to be actually asking for advice, and how much is just going to be a vent/release for me.
My wife and I have been together for more than 10 years. When we first started dating in High School she was pretty big into her church, and I was still riding the fence - having been raised catholic and having my doubts about it. After we both left for college, she had a blow up with some of the members of the church and more or less walked out. I figured that part of her life was over, and for the most part is was. For the next 7 years we lived our lives without it being much of an issue, in fact it wasn't an issue at all.
We went to college, graduted, got married, and now have a beautiful little girl (who just turned 3). Now not to go into to too much detail here, but when my wife was around 3-4 years old she suffered some abuse from a family member, and this has been something that has hanged over her, her entire life. And since my daughter has gotten around she been very tense and there has been kind of an odd feeling around the house. She has a religious friend at work who she talks to frequently, she seems like a nice lady - despite our philosophical differences, but for the past month or so my wife has started attending church with her, and has started really getting into it. Almost like when we first started dating.
As i said, i was raised catholic, so a 'service' to me is usually 1-hour and some change. But this is a more 'main stream' church, I guess, and their service lasts around 2-hours and change. So the first Wednesday my wife went to a 7 o'clock service and by the time 9:30 was rolling around I got angry that she wasn't home yet and had a bit of a blow up. We had a pretty big fight and quite a few issues were brought up - but we made up and found some common ground and realized that we both have some issues to deal with and we just have to deal with them in our own way. I would rather her find a way to deal with her issues without getting back into a church, but I am willing to be supportive of her.
So the big question/advice is how does this work? Does anyone have any experience with being married to a christian while yourself being atheist or agnostic?
BNet • magicprime#1430 | PSN/Steam • MagicPrime | Origin • FireSideWizard
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign •
August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
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Is she going to get ultra defensive about church/church activities at the detriment of your family because you don't participate? Is she going to want to get the child in on this, possibly against your wishes? Are you going to be angry all the time if she decides to do mass 3 days a week (there are some that do this).
I've never heard of 2 hours before (especially multiple times a week). That sounds like some weird pentecostal, super bible thumper branch that stands by itself. Well, I have, but like I said, they're usually the super fucked up branches.
You and your wife need to sit down and talk about your goals as a couple and that they should come first before spirituality and salvation. My girlfriend has expressed interest before, but, being atheist, I find it hard to really relate. Especially with the defense of, "I just want to be prepared in case there is a heaven."
If you get that line, basically, your only rational response should be, "God(s) probably don't care if you worship them, but if you're a good person, be a good person first."
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
What does your wife want to get out of church? Does she feel like she misses the sense of community that church can provide? or is she afraid that she will "go to hell" if she doesn't go? There s certainly a lot of ground in the middle there.
What is your opposition to her going? Do you feel like this will create distance between you and her? will the church pull her and possibly your daughter away from you? Is that a part of her life that she won't or can't share with you? Is your atheism so strong that you don't just not believe in god, but oppose your wife doing so? I am not attacking you, just trying to get you to think of what has made you so uncomfortable with this.
It sounds so cliche' but communication is the key. Open and honest. Don't create a situation where she has to hide this from you. So long as this is just church we are talking about, and not some type of crazy cult. Just because you don't share her belief in god does not mean that she can not have that belief. Also, its important that she understand that your choice not to believe is also perfectly fine. She does not need to "Save you" or convert you.
If it's not a Catholic, Protestant, or Presbyterian church, chances are, it's fucking insane.
I haven't heard any convincing arguments from their side that would make me change my mind, but if nothing else having some exposure to what they believe and how the Church is structured has enabled me to have more rational discussions on the internet about it.
It doesn't really have any major effects on our relationship because it has always been this way. It works for her and she finds it important, so I'm understanding about that. The key is to find something that works for both of you.
Also, the church you're describing sounds kinda weird? I wouldn't consider any of Pentecostal branches I know of to be "mainstream Christianity", at least.
At any rate, Sitting at home and being mad at his wife's absence is not helpful. Communication, and maybe even meeting these people and knowing whats going on would help.
First step would be to work with your wife on finding something of a less weird sect of Christianity, something that you could stomach
christianity comes in all shapes and sizes
sometimes women are more interested in the communal aspects of church rather than the message itself, so she may be open to that kind of persuasion
Care to back this up with proof or anything not just wild conjecture? I like how you think vast swaths of people are attending cults it's almost as if you have little to no clue what you are talking about.
To OP well one talk with her and attend a service it's not like she has never done things she was not so keen on for you.
<Qs23> I just need to get my dicks in a row
<prox> i work for dicks
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Was it that she was specfically at church?
Seconded.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations
Feel free to draw your own conclusions as to what constitutes cult or sect or denomination. I am not going to really elaborate on why a church that is part of an offshoot denomination (but isn't part of a "group") is considered cult-like.
For instance, if someone mentions "Westboro Baptist Church" do you think they refer to baptists?
Get called on saying something then you don't or cant back it up. Oh yes bring up WBC yes please do because it just shows how out of touch you are with well everything. If you don't care to backup your statement of saying billions of people are cult followers then how about you just don't say it next time?
<Qs23> I just need to get my dicks in a row
<prox> i work for dicks
#paforums_pax, all about the dicks.
Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States#Christianity :
Note: I was comparing US reformation churches and the one-off single church that isn't part of a larger body. Hence 98% of churches, and not 98% of religious followers.
98% is a stupidly high percentage to drop.
Also Presbyterians ARE protestants.
That said, it is good to be open and honest and keep communication lines strong. If you can do that and your wife doesn't go join a cult you'll be fine.
I think I was mad at a 'here we go again." scenario. I remember how things ended with her church in high school, and I thought it was one of those things that we had gotten past and wouldn't have to deal with again. Then out of the blue - now its back to being an issue.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
Now, this really, really depends on your approach. Don't go to "spy." If you can be respectful and diplomatic, and demonstrate a genuine interest in something important to her (without making promises you won't keep, like that this will be a habit for you), then you could help to seal up this gap of what looks kind of like distrust.
I did this once with her in high school and it was literally one of the most uncomfortable experiences of my life.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
It does sound like a lot of time has passed since then, and it's unlikely that either of you are quite the same. I'd give it a shot as long as that discomfort isn't something that will turn into hostility.
Edit: more important, maybe this is an experience that might help you to better articulate what makes you uncomfortable about this, which will help to make solutions more apparent.
What do you mean by "here we go again"? If you have a fundamental problem with your wife exploring religion, period, then you guys really need to have a serious talk and maybe think about couples counseling or something.
If it's just that she is possibly getting involved with something you view as potentially harmful (fire and brimstone type churches) then maybe talk to her about going to a more progressive church? It's possible she is just looking for a community to bond with. Maybe this will require you compromising and agreeing to go to church with her, but the more progressive denominations like ELCA, UCC, etc. aren't all that bad, really. It's just words and silly rituals at any rate, right?
As a former Christian who also went to a borderline Pentecostal (though technically non-denominational) church and an Assemblies of God college and later left the church, I totally get your discomfort. I would be uncomfortable as hell also.
I have enough trust in my wife that if they would start spouting things she 100% disagreed with she would leave. It's just leaves me with an awkward feeling in my gut.
Critical Failures - Havenhold Campaign • August St. Cloud (Human Ranger)
It's good that you talked about values and it's good that you're still on the same page overall. It's ok to feel awkward about it. Feelings aren't rational and sometimes we feel threatened by things we shouldn't be threatened by. Just be honest with her about how you feel (and be clear that it's just how you feel) while trying to explore why you feel that way and what you can perhaps do to mitigate that feeling. Sounds like you two are doing a pretty good job of talking things out so far though. :^:
My first inclination is to get some sort of agreement on how your daughter is going to be raised. That seems like the contentious thing.
My mom took us both to church through our earliest years until late teens. I attended Sunday School, was an altar server during my early teens, and went through Confirmation. I liked the community benefit and reinforcement, but I couldn't really buy into the divine as time went on. I just couldn't rationalize things as I got older, and I stopped attending.
I have done a lot of thinking since then, and am an atheist in my adult years. I do not think I was harmed by being brought up in the church, and while I think I would have been a good person regardless I can't say I know for sure that I would be as community thoughtful as I am without it. If I hadn't been given the exposure to the church, I wouldn't have had any opportunity to decide if it was for me, so I don't regret it.
All through this, my dad simply never brought it up. He sometimes attended, mainly for the larger events, but he never spoke of religion or views. He let us make up our own minds, and I think having that example of an atheist that "somehow" gets along fine with a religious partner was a great role model for us.
I now think that if I happened to end up married to someone religious and church-going, that would be fine, our children would go with their mother, etc. I would just follow my father's example.
The important things I think are acceptance and freedom. The parents need to be accepting of each other, or there will be worse problems than church attendance. I say if she wants to go to church with the kids, that is something you may want to be fine with, so long as there is nothing forced on them. The children should have the freedom to come to their own conclusions, and so I would watch out to just make sure there is no hardline indoctrination and brainwashing going on (like OMG DO THIS OR YOU'RE GOING TO HELL AND YOUR DADDY IS GOING TO HELL blah blah). I didn't experience anything like that, but for the record I was in an Anglican church which tends to be softer about things. :P
@MagicPrime So I guess it bears mentioning that if she seems willing to work on things, and reach a common ground, realize that she is already making a compromise, in terms of her religion, and take heart in that.
but yeah possibly looking at alternate churches, attending a service yourself, and absolutely being open and honest with your wife is all good advice that I can't really add to
Yes let us all forget that you never said anything about being limited to the united states nor did you say limiting it to Christianity. So you what assume people know what you are thinking or what?
You more or less listed off a narrow group of Christianity then proceeded to call ALL OTHER RELIGIONS CULTS. GG uninstall mate come back when you can make a coherent argument.
<Qs23> I just need to get my dicks in a row
<prox> i work for dicks
#paforums_pax, all about the dicks.
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