So...I'm wondering what people think about this guy, specifically the atheists and historians. Did he exist? Did any of the events discussed in the bible actually happen?
I do think it likely that Jesus existed. I do not believe he was the son of God. I do believe that his "teachings" as presented in the bible, if true, may have been very important at the time. Tolerance and all that jazz.
ElJeffeNot actually a mod.Roaming the streets, waving his gun around.Moderator, ClubPAmod
edited September 2007
Odds that Jesus existed are roughly 50/50. I have no problem admitting that he existed, though, because conceding that doesn't require conceding anything else about the validity of Christianity, any more than admitting that GWB existed requires believing that he's a superhero with the power to melt bra straps with his awesome mind rays.
ElJeffe on
I submitted an entry to Lego Ideas, and if 10,000 people support me, it'll be turned into an actual Lego set!If you'd like to see and support my submission, follow this link.
So...I'm wondering what people think about this guy, specifically the atheists and historians. Did he exist? Did any of the events discussed in the bible actually happen?
I do think it likely that Jesus existed. I do not believe he was the son of God. I do believe that his "teachings" as presented in the bible, if true, may have been very important at the time. Tolerance and all that jazz.
Sorry for the anorexic OP. To make up for that:
I'm torn between Buddy Jesus and Baby Jesus as to the better example of divinity.
In the words of Ricky Bobby:
Ricky Bobby: Dear Lord baby Jesus, or as our brothers in the south call you,jesuz, we thank you so much for this bountiful harvest of Dominos, KFC, and the always delicious Taco Bell. I just want to take time to say thank you for my family. My two beautiful, beautiful, handsome stricking sons, Walker, and Texas Ranger, or TR as we call him. And of course my red hot smokin' wife Carley, who is a stone cold fox.
Cal Naughton, Jr.: mmm...
Ricky Bobby: Dear tiny infant Jesus...
Carley Bobby: Hey, um... you know sweetie, Jesus did grow up. You don't always have to call him baby. It's a bit odd and off puttin' to pray to a baby.
Ricky Bobby: Well look, I like the Christmas Jesus best, and I'm sayin grace. When you say grace, you can say it to grown up Jesus, or teenage Jesus, or bearded Jesus, or whoever you want.
also:
Cal Naughton, Jr.: I had a dream where Jesus was a dirty old bum, and I was about to sock him in the face because, well he's a dirty old bum, but then I thought, theres something special about him...
Ricky Bobby: Because it was Jesus, right...
Cal Naughton, Jr.: Yeah...
and finally:
Dear Tiny Jesus, in your golden fleece diapers with your tiny, little fat balled up fists...
Look, I like the baby version the best, you hear me? I win the races and I get the money.
Dear Eight Pound, Six Ounce, Newborn Baby Jesus, don’t even know a word yet, just a little infant, so cuddly, but still omnipotent. We’d just like to thank you for all the races I’ve won and the $21.2 million, LOVE THAT MONEY! That I have accrued over this past season. Also due to a binding endorsement contract that stipulates I mention PowerAde at each grace, I just wanna say that PowerAde is delicious and it cools you off on a hot summer day and we look forward to PowerAde’s release of mystic mountain blueberry. Thank you, for all your power and your grace, Dear Baby God, Amen
I don't see anything that impossible about a random guy named Jesus being executed for claiming to be king of the Jews. The miracles and such are probably just the usual myths that spring up around a lot of ancient people.
First documented hippy in human history. I think crucifying him for being a hippy was probably unnecessary, and that it explains why it took until the '60s and '70s for the movement to regain popularity. If by some unlikely coincidence he is in fact still somehow conscious and posessed of the power to interact with the people of this world, I also think he thinks Jack Chick and Carl Lindner and their ilk are assholes, and that he loves him some Gears of War.
First documented hippy in human history. I think crucifying him for being a hippy was probably unnecessary, and that it explains why it took until the '60s and '70s for the movement to regain popularity. If by some unlikely coincidence he is in fact still somehow conscious and posessed of the power to interact with the people of this world, I also think he thinks Jack Chick and Carl Lindner and their ilk are assholes, and that he loves him some Gears of War.
Agreed.
I'd say he's also looking forwards to playing Army of Two.
First documented hippy in human history. I think crucifying him for being a hippy was probably unnecessary, and that it explains why it took until the '60s and '70s for the movement to regain popularity. If by some unlikely coincidence he is in fact still somehow conscious and posessed of the power to interact with the people of this world, I also think he thinks Jack Chick and Carl Lindner and their ilk are assholes, and that he loves him some Gears of War.
Agreed.
I'd say he's also looking forwards to playing Army of Two.
Mmm, no. I'm pretty sure Jesus Christ would be against EA. Don't you remember anything from Dogma?
I like to think of Jesus as wearin' a Tuxedo T-shirt, 'cause it says, like, "I want to be formal, but I'm here to party too." I like to party, so I like my Jesus to party.
I like to think of Jesus with like giant eagles wings and singin’ lead vocals for lynyrd skynyrd with like an Angel Band, and I’m in the front row, and I’m hammered drunk…
First documented hippy in human history. I think crucifying him for being a hippy was probably unnecessary, and that it explains why it took until the '60s and '70s for the movement to regain popularity. If by some unlikely coincidence he is in fact still somehow conscious and posessed of the power to interact with the people of this world, I also think he thinks Jack Chick and Carl Lindner and their ilk are assholes, and that he loves him some Gears of War.
Agreed.
I'd say he's also looking forwards to playing Army of Two.
Mmm, no. I'm pretty sure Jesus Christ would be against EA. Don't you remember anything from Dogma?
True. Besides, Dead Rising seems more his kind of thing.
Jesus was the most successful of the many saviors of the time. Brian almost had him beat, but he wasn't in the game for as long before he got crucified.
Odds that Jesus existed are roughly 50/50. I have no problem admitting that he existed, though, because conceding that doesn't require conceding anything else about the validity of Christianity, any more than admitting that GWB existed requires believing that he's a superhero with the power to melt bra straps with his awesome mind rays.
50/50? I'd peg it much higher.
Like you said, conceding that he existed doesn't require conceding anything else about the validity of Christianity (because seriously, I don't understand how Jesus getting tortured wipes out thousands of years of sins, or how that is even necessary at all), and while all we have to justify that existence is hearsay, you have to remember he was a hippy. He wasn't conquering and slaughtering or something, getting his name mentioned across the empire.
My understanding of the facts is that Jesus probably was a real person, a traveling rabbi or some such, which were actually quite numerous at the time. His deeds were elaborated on, postmortem, and the whole thing caught major steam when certain political rulers were baptized and forced their citizens to convert as well. Like any good myth there are tons of different and conflicting versions -- for instance, the Quran states that Jesus was a prophet who never claimed to be the son of god, and was never even put on the cross. So yeah, Jesus probably existed. In the same way that Paul Bunion probably existed.
Jesus's teachings were for the most part pretty good, even after 2k years or more; a refreshment after reading the fucking horrifying Old Testament. I wish more Christians would actually follow Jesus.
First documented hippy in human history. I think crucifying him for being a hippy was probably unnecessary, and that it explains why it took until the '60s and '70s for the movement to regain popularity. If by some unlikely coincidence he is in fact still somehow conscious and posessed of the power to interact with the people of this world, I also think he thinks Jack Chick and Carl Lindner and their ilk are assholes, and that he loves him some Gears of War.
Agreed.
I'd say he's also looking forwards to playing Army of Two.
Mmm, no. I'm pretty sure Jesus Christ would be against EA. Don't you remember anything from Dogma?
True. Besides, Dead Rising seems more his kind of thing.
I'm missing something with the Dogma reference... The movie or actual Canonical Law?
I find Dead Rising can get pretty dull after a while. Seems more like an attempt at trademarking the interface for a virtual mall that making a decent game.
And in keeping with the thread... does anyone else find this immensely funny?
To get a better opinion of Jesus, strip away all the miracles and supernatural stuff others claimed he did and focus on what Jesus said. Do I believe Jesus and some apostles raised the dead? Not really. Do I believe Jesus said to a crowd to not cast stones unless you're without sin? Sure.
First documented hippy in human history. I think crucifying him for being a hippy was probably unnecessary, and that it explains why it took until the '60s and '70s for the movement to regain popularity. If by some unlikely coincidence he is in fact still somehow conscious and posessed of the power to interact with the people of this world, I also think he thinks Jack Chick and Carl Lindner and their ilk are assholes, and that he loves him some Gears of War.
Agreed.
I'd say he's also looking forwards to playing Army of Two.
Mmm, no. I'm pretty sure Jesus Christ would be against EA. Don't you remember anything from Dogma?
True. Besides, Dead Rising seems more his kind of thing.
I'm missing something with the Dogma reference... The movie or actual Canonical Law?
I find Dead Rising can get pretty dull after a while. Seems more like an attempt at trademarking the interface for a virtual mall that making a decent game.
And in keeping with the thread... does anyone else find this immensely funny?
He's talking about False Idols. The Mooby Corporation.
First documented hippy in human history. I think crucifying him for being a hippy was probably unnecessary, and that it explains why it took until the '60s and '70s for the movement to regain popularity. If by some unlikely coincidence he is in fact still somehow conscious and posessed of the power to interact with the people of this world, I also think he thinks Jack Chick and Carl Lindner and their ilk are assholes, and that he loves him some Gears of War.
Agreed.
I'd say he's also looking forwards to playing Army of Two.
Mmm, no. I'm pretty sure Jesus Christ would be against EA. Don't you remember anything from Dogma?
True. Besides, Dead Rising seems more his kind of thing.
I'm missing something with the Dogma reference... The movie or actual Canonical Law?
I find Dead Rising can get pretty dull after a while. Seems more like an attempt at trademarking the interface for a virtual mall that making a decent game.
And in keeping with the thread... does anyone else find this immensely funny?
He's talking about False Idols. The Mooby Corporation.
Am I correct?
Also, I saved that image.
How can you compare a video game company like EA to the Mooby Corp, who actually had a golden calf?
To get a better opinion of Jesus, strip away all the miracles and supernatural stuff others claimed he did and focus on what Jesus said. Do I believe Jesus and some apostles raised the dead? Not really. Do I believe Jesus said to a crowd to not cast stones unless you're without sin? Sure.
Ditto. I'm no Christian in the traditional sense, but that doesn't mean I can't respect aspects of its morality.
I have real issues with saying something and not really believing it. For example, Church of England ceremonies seem to consist mostly of saying how other religions should be destroyed, their followers slaughtered, all that. Yet apparent "believers" then go and happily walk past the Methodist church next door, then past a mosque, etc. It doesn't make sense. Either believe and follow it, or don't!
Spending time in India further screwed up my view of religion. I saw people happily spending hours prostrating themselves in front of shrines daily, only for them then to say they are atheists. Only they were born Hindu, so they are Hindu as well. It's all very odd.
My girlfriend is also an atheist theologian doing Biblical Studies at uni...
Damn life being so confusing. I prefer science and evidence/proof being important.
To get a better opinion of Jesus, strip away all the miracles and supernatural stuff others claimed he did and focus on what Jesus said. Do I believe Jesus and some apostles raised the dead? Not really. Do I believe Jesus said to a crowd to not cast stones unless you're without sin? Sure.
Ditto. I'm no Christian in the traditional sense, but that doesn't mean I can't respect aspects of its morality.
Jesus didn't say anything that societies weren't able to figure out on their own.
People always go on about what a great guy he is, but he was just as intolerant as his father. John 3:18 and all that.
Buddha pre-dates Jesus by several hundred years anyway.
Modern humanity predates Jesus by 8-10k years. [edit: not Civilization, rather Homo sapiens sapiens]
The Earth itself is 4-4.5 billion years old. Its pretty obvious Jesus was a dirty hippy travelling in an old, broken-down VW Bus. It took him 3.99999998 billion years to fly from God's magic penis of Creation to Earth.
GOJIRA! on
"We are cursed," said Iyad Sarraj, a Gaza psychiatrist and a human rights activist. "Our leaders are either Israeli collaborators, asses, or mentally unstable."
First documented hippy in human history. I think crucifying him for being a hippy was probably unnecessary, and that it explains why it took until the '60s and '70s for the movement to regain popularity. If by some unlikely coincidence he is in fact still somehow conscious and posessed of the power to interact with the people of this world, I also think he thinks Jack Chick and Carl Lindner and their ilk are assholes, and that he loves him some Gears of War.
Agreed.
I'd say he's also looking forwards to playing Army of Two.
Mmm, no. I'm pretty sure Jesus Christ would be against EA. Don't you remember anything from Dogma?
True. Besides, Dead Rising seems more his kind of thing.
I'm missing something with the Dogma reference... The movie or actual Canonical Law?
I find Dead Rising can get pretty dull after a while. Seems more like an attempt at trademarking the interface for a virtual mall that making a decent game.
And in keeping with the thread... does anyone else find this immensely funny?
He's talking about False Idols. The Mooby Corporation.
Am I correct?
Also, I saved that image.
How can you compare a video game company like EA to the Mooby Corp, who actually had a golden calf?
Jesus may have existed but his whole story and the mythology surrounding him has really just been a bunch of rehashed old stories usually given to other prophets or gods before him.
Did he exist? Maybe, it has gotten to the point where it doesn't matter anymore.
Oh man guys. I totally passed by a wine festival today, and got condemned to hell. By an eight year old.
This old guy had a sign that said "ALL MODERATE DRINKERS OF WINE WILL BURN IN HELL, SO SAYS JESUS CHRIST."
Me and my date are laughing, and we're all like "Well, except for that whole water into wine thing I guess!"
Cue the old guy going: "Nope, he turned it into juice!"
Cue tons of laughter on our parts.
Then these two little kids that were also passing out pamphlets, started YELLING AT ME! Telling me I was going to burn in hell. I got freaking sent to hell by an eight year old.
Mmm, no. I'm pretty sure Jesus Christ would be against EA. Don't you remember anything from Dogma?
True. Besides, Dead Rising seems more his kind of thing.
...
I find Dead Rising can get pretty dull after a while. Seems more like an attempt at trademarking the interface for a virtual mall that making a decent game...
*goes "zoom" and makes an "airplane-flying-overhead" motion with his hand*
Oh man guys. I totally passed by a wine festival today, and got condemned to hell. By an eight year old.
This old guy had a sign that said "ALL MODERATE DRINKERS OF WINE WILL BURN IN HELL, SO SAYS JESUS CHRIST."
Me and my date are laughing, and we're all like "Well, except for that whole water into wine thing I guess!"
Cue the old guy going: "Nope, he turned it into juice!"
Cue tons of laughter on our parts.
Then these two little kids that were also passing out pamphlets, started YELLING AT ME! Telling me I was going to burn in hell. I got freaking sent to hell by an eight year old.
If being dammed by an eight year old gets big laughs, I recommend you and your date watch the movie Jesus Camp some night. Kids being brainwashed to reject other kids for reading Harry Potter books, for example.
I really feel bad for kids that are out at night because their parents are those terrible religious crazy people. It's very sad.
SniperGuy on
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Waka LakaRiding the stuffed UnicornIf ya know what I mean.Registered Userregular
edited September 2007
I don't particularly believe in any god/entity or follow any particular religion, but I will neither confirm or deny the existance of a Jesus Christ.
Thousands of years ago anyone who could do something out of the ordinary was considered a messiah -people who could heal others, had a slight of hand or generally entertain with stories/wisdom with a silver tongue had a place in society.
Maybe there was a Jesus that had alot of ideas and could speak to the masses in a way that they believe everything he said. Maybe there were some truths, maybe he was just full of shit and everyone had nothing better to do than believe him.
Mind you, alot of what Jesus supposedly said was already said by other people who claimed to be gods/ sons of gods hundreds or thousands of years before. Mithras also said "Drink wine for it is my blood, eat bread for it is my flesh" way before Jesus did.
There are many people nowadays that if transported back in time could be considered gods or prophets.
There are inventors and people who cure disease that have done more than Jesus has done in his life, but demand no praise or worship or even call themselves god.
Give me a tank, fuel and some ammo and send me back to that time and I could claim to be a god. Nowadays I'd just be a dude in a tank, and probably get arrested.
Bruce Lee had some good things to say, but he will probably never reach the status of a god/son of a god simply because he was born in a time where people have at least grown a brain. Back then he could have whooped Jesus 3 times over.
At the end of the day - Jesus to me is nothing bad, nothing great but not my thing. I'd rather not follow anyone in life.
Odds that Jesus existed are roughly 50/50. I have no problem admitting that he existed, though, because conceding that doesn't require conceding anything else about the validity of Christianity, any more than admitting that GWB existed requires believing that he's a superhero with the power to melt bra straps with his awesome mind rays.
50/50? I'd peg it much higher.
Like you said, conceding that he existed doesn't require conceding anything else about the validity of Christianity (because seriously, I don't understand how Jesus getting tortured wipes out thousands of years of sins, or how that is even necessary at all), and while all we have to justify that existence is hearsay, you have to remember he was a hippy. He wasn't conquering and slaughtering or something, getting his name mentioned across the empire.
There were two massive religions that were formed based on the texts of Laozi, who may not have existed. Buddhism somehow managed to spread without violence very well. In fact, of the major religions of the world today, it seems like (and I may be forgetting something important, so correct me if I'm wrong) Islam is fairly unique in that it was initially spread by its prophet via violence.
Also, you seem to forget that, after Jesus' purported death (I'm with Jeffe- 50/50-ish on his existence), there was lots and lots of fighting regarding the faith.
Posts
I'm torn between Buddy Jesus and Baby Jesus as to the better example of divinity.
In the words of Ricky Bobby:
also:
and finally:
Agreed.
I'd say he's also looking forwards to playing Army of Two.
I've driven by that church many times.
Mmm, no. I'm pretty sure Jesus Christ would be against EA. Don't you remember anything from Dogma?
True. Besides, Dead Rising seems more his kind of thing.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
50/50? I'd peg it much higher.
Like you said, conceding that he existed doesn't require conceding anything else about the validity of Christianity (because seriously, I don't understand how Jesus getting tortured wipes out thousands of years of sins, or how that is even necessary at all), and while all we have to justify that existence is hearsay, you have to remember he was a hippy. He wasn't conquering and slaughtering or something, getting his name mentioned across the empire.
Jesus's teachings were for the most part pretty good, even after 2k years or more; a refreshment after reading the fucking horrifying Old Testament. I wish more Christians would actually follow Jesus.
I'm missing something with the Dogma reference... The movie or actual Canonical Law?
I find Dead Rising can get pretty dull after a while. Seems more like an attempt at trademarking the interface for a virtual mall that making a decent game.
And in keeping with the thread... does anyone else find this immensely funny?
Am I correct?
Also, I saved that image.
How can you compare a video game company like EA to the Mooby Corp, who actually had a golden calf?
Ditto. I'm no Christian in the traditional sense, but that doesn't mean I can't respect aspects of its morality.
Our first game is now available for free on Google Play: Frontier: Isle of the Seven Gods
So that's where Touchdown Jesus winters.
Yeah, if anything he'd really be up in arms with Bungie -- I think he feels a little threatened by the MC.
I have real issues with saying something and not really believing it. For example, Church of England ceremonies seem to consist mostly of saying how other religions should be destroyed, their followers slaughtered, all that. Yet apparent "believers" then go and happily walk past the Methodist church next door, then past a mosque, etc. It doesn't make sense. Either believe and follow it, or don't!
Spending time in India further screwed up my view of religion. I saw people happily spending hours prostrating themselves in front of shrines daily, only for them then to say they are atheists. Only they were born Hindu, so they are Hindu as well. It's all very odd.
My girlfriend is also an atheist theologian doing Biblical Studies at uni...
Damn life being so confusing. I prefer science and evidence/proof being important.
Nope. Jesus was only an avatar of Vishnu.
Buddha pre-dates Jesus by several hundred years anyway.
Jesus didn't say anything that societies weren't able to figure out on their own.
People always go on about what a great guy he is, but he was just as intolerant as his father. John 3:18 and all that.
Rock Band DLC | GW:OttW - arrcd | WLD - Thortar
Modern humanity predates Jesus by 8-10k years. [edit: not Civilization, rather Homo sapiens sapiens]
The Earth itself is 4-4.5 billion years old. Its pretty obvious Jesus was a dirty hippy travelling in an old, broken-down VW Bus. It took him 3.99999998 billion years to fly from God's magic penis of Creation to Earth.
EA has John Madden.
Dude, already adressed this. Master Chief = Jesus.
Did he exist? Maybe, it has gotten to the point where it doesn't matter anymore.
Did he do any crazy miraculous shit? Nope.
No. That is Mario.
This old guy had a sign that said "ALL MODERATE DRINKERS OF WINE WILL BURN IN HELL, SO SAYS JESUS CHRIST."
Me and my date are laughing, and we're all like "Well, except for that whole water into wine thing I guess!"
Cue the old guy going: "Nope, he turned it into juice!"
Cue tons of laughter on our parts.
Then these two little kids that were also passing out pamphlets, started YELLING AT ME! Telling me I was going to burn in hell. I got freaking sent to hell by an eight year old.
Which would be why Jesus found Buddha.
*goes "zoom" and makes an "airplane-flying-overhead" motion with his hand*
If being dammed by an eight year old gets big laughs, I recommend you and your date watch the movie Jesus Camp some night. Kids being brainwashed to reject other kids for reading Harry Potter books, for example.
Thousands of years ago anyone who could do something out of the ordinary was considered a messiah -people who could heal others, had a slight of hand or generally entertain with stories/wisdom with a silver tongue had a place in society.
Maybe there was a Jesus that had alot of ideas and could speak to the masses in a way that they believe everything he said. Maybe there were some truths, maybe he was just full of shit and everyone had nothing better to do than believe him.
Mind you, alot of what Jesus supposedly said was already said by other people who claimed to be gods/ sons of gods hundreds or thousands of years before. Mithras also said "Drink wine for it is my blood, eat bread for it is my flesh" way before Jesus did.
There are many people nowadays that if transported back in time could be considered gods or prophets.
There are inventors and people who cure disease that have done more than Jesus has done in his life, but demand no praise or worship or even call themselves god.
Give me a tank, fuel and some ammo and send me back to that time and I could claim to be a god. Nowadays I'd just be a dude in a tank, and probably get arrested.
Bruce Lee had some good things to say, but he will probably never reach the status of a god/son of a god simply because he was born in a time where people have at least grown a brain. Back then he could have whooped Jesus 3 times over.
At the end of the day - Jesus to me is nothing bad, nothing great but not my thing. I'd rather not follow anyone in life.
Edit - Mithras! Not Mithirus - Balls!
Tumblr
Fuck... spelt it wrong.
Mithras
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithras
Tumblr
There were two massive religions that were formed based on the texts of Laozi, who may not have existed. Buddhism somehow managed to spread without violence very well. In fact, of the major religions of the world today, it seems like (and I may be forgetting something important, so correct me if I'm wrong) Islam is fairly unique in that it was initially spread by its prophet via violence.
Also, you seem to forget that, after Jesus' purported death (I'm with Jeffe- 50/50-ish on his existence), there was lots and lots of fighting regarding the faith.