to some people (like me) some of them already are. I don't know much about art, but I know what I like. And I refuse to believe that liking Kojima's work makes me a misogynist, or means I condone rape, which I feel is something that is being heavily implied in this thread. Like, no-one's actually saying that, but even just reading the thread without (until now) entering the conversation, I feel like I'm being tarred with a 'Bad and terrible person' brush for liking media that contain scenes of (but do not consist entirely or even mostly) terrible people doing awful things to underserving people.
I tried to look up pictures of projectors, but I didn't know if anyone still remembers what those are
to some people (like me) some of them already are. I don't know much about art, but I know what I like. And I refuse to believe that liking Kojima's work makes me a misogynist, or means I condone rape, which I feel is something that is being heavily implied in this thread. Like, no-one's actually saying that, but even just reading the thread without (until now) entering the conversation, I feel like I'm being tarred with a 'Bad and terrible person' brush for liking media that contain scenes of (but do not consist entirely or even mostly) terrible people doing awful things to underserving people.
Commercial success is always more important than artistic integrity in games. Every game that has bad gameplay and a good artistic message shouldn't have been a game
Marty: The future, it's where you're going? Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
to some people (like me) some of them already are. I don't know much about art, but I know what I like. And I refuse to believe that liking Kojima's work makes me a misogynist, or means I condone rape, which I feel is something that is being heavily implied in this thread. Like, no-one's actually saying that, but even just reading the thread without (until now) entering the conversation, I feel like I'm being tarred with a 'Bad and terrible person' brush for liking media that contain scenes of (but do not consist entirely or even mostly) terrible people doing awful things to underserving people.
I tried to look up pictures of projectors, but I didn't know if anyone still remembers what those are
Anyway, you're projecting
Use the overhead projector
Circle the part where anyone ever said anything about looking down on people who like Metal Gear
MattitudePaste Pot PeteKicking The BucketRegistered Userregular
I would like to point out, at this juncture, that BAFTA have awards for the games industry. That's the British Academy of Film and Television Arts.
So in Britain, at least, Video Games are Art.
Shit, let me have this, it's one of the few things my country does right.
I got this Tumblr and I don't know how to use it.
Decide on the next line by the rhyme when I choose it.
Also I put songs on YouTube
The musings of this lonely rube.
to some people (like me) some of them already are. I don't know much about art, but I know what I like. And I refuse to believe that liking Kojima's work makes me a misogynist, or means I condone rape, which I feel is something that is being heavily implied in this thread. Like, no-one's actually saying that, but even just reading the thread without (until now) entering the conversation, I feel like I'm being tarred with a 'Bad and terrible person' brush for liking media that contain scenes of (but do not consist entirely or even mostly) terrible people doing awful things to underserving people.
We discussed this yesterday
I'm still buying the game on Tuesday, and I'm mostly still excited to play it
But unless it turns out all this info is just straight-up wrong there's really no defending that aspect of the game
I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying the other parts of it but still conceding that "yeah this part is FUCKED" and I don't think anyone at the very least SHOULD, I'm not going to say they WON'T, think less of someone for it
At no point did anyone bring up that liking Kojima games makes you a misogynist, nor does buying Ground Zeroes condone rape, and nobody here has even implied that
My main memory of MGS2 was spending like three hours trying to kill a helicopter with a rocket launcher, finally doing it, and then slipping on some bird shit and falling to my death
My main memory of MGS2 was spending like three hours trying to kill a helicopter with a rocket launcher, finally doing it, and then slipping on some bird shit and falling to my death
My main memory of MGS2 was spending like three hours trying to kill a helicopter with a rocket launcher, finally doing it, and then slipping on some bird shit and falling to my death
Commercial success is always more important than artistic integrity in games. Every game that has bad gameplay and a good artistic message shouldn't have been a game
Liking stuff that has horrid scenes isn't the problem
Justifying the horrid scenes is. Brushing the horrid scenes off like it's nothing is. Saying "maybe there's a reason for it" is. Constantly giving the benefit of the doubt just because you happen to like the series and couldn't imagine something like this being done unironically or without purpose is.
I personally don't need my media to moralise at me, so games that try and do the "yo are you having fun doing this terrible thing YOU MONSTER" get an eye-roll at best, and more likely completely avoided, because duh, I internalised that point when I was like 12. A game, for me, needs to do something interesting and meaningful with the material, and it needs to have fun gameplay.
The audiolog being talked about is literally only worth a damn if the character is not in fact dead and shows up in MGSV, because otherwise it's a load of garbage that could have been cut completely, and the male character's trauma developed some other way.
to some people (like me) some of them already are. I don't know much about art, but I know what I like. And I refuse to believe that liking Kojima's work makes me a misogynist, or means I condone rape, which I feel is something that is being heavily implied in this thread. Like, no-one's actually saying that, but even just reading the thread without (until now) entering the conversation, I feel like I'm being tarred with a 'Bad and terrible person' brush for liking media that contain scenes of (but do not consist entirely or even mostly) terrible people doing awful things to underserving people.
We discussed this yesterday
I'm still buying the game on Tuesday, and I'm mostly still excited to play it
But unless it turns out all this info is just straight-up wrong there's really no defending that aspect of the game
I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying the other parts of it but still conceding that "yeah this part is FUCKED" and I don't think anyone at the very least SHOULD, I'm not going to say they WON'T, think less of someone for it
Yeah, I'm not saying that certain parts of that game are not fucked up. I think it's an entirely personal thing what media people decide to expose themselves to, I've just begun to resent the overwhelming sense of judgement I'm feelin from my favourite thread on the forum. I was following the conversation last night, so sorry if I'm repeating stuff.
If anything, I'm beginning to worry that there's something wrong with me in that I don't feel the same outrage as other people.
My main memory of MGS2 was spending like three hours trying to kill a helicopter with a rocket launcher, finally doing it, and then slipping on some bird shit and falling to my death
A R T
It's a perfect comment on how birdshit can ruin even the best of days, after your grandest achievments. It's a fatalistic masterpiece.
Why yes, I am being sarcastic.
I got this Tumblr and I don't know how to use it.
Decide on the next line by the rhyme when I choose it.
Also I put songs on YouTube
The musings of this lonely rube.
It's a pretty effective way of sending across the message "no war isn't supposed to be fun, stop enjoying yourself"
"But please give us sixty dollars, and here are some achievements to unlock!
But war is bad for realsies, guys, I'm serious.
And check out New Game+ for hidden content!"
How do you make something that can't be forgiven by the fact that it's in an entertaining video game
you can't have it both ways.
Spec Ops gets a lot of deserved shit for being ham handed, but it was at least committed to its thesis in every aspect of the game. It was not trying to be a fun game and hook you with some collectibles or really do anything else other than be a generic third person slog and then talk (poorly) about what it means to play a shooter.
You can't go hey you know what, war is terrible, now watch me stealth kill this guy from a horse
Art has no qualitative threshhold it has to be passed in order to be art. Most art, from a single perspective, is pretty lousy.
Metal Gear is art. Is is often very, very bad art.
There is nothing wrong with having horrible, horrible shit in your art. There are works which use them as lynchpins of characters or even the entirety of works in and of themselves. Some great writers can make this shit work. Some writers can't, because they are poo biscuits, or otherwise incapable.
Kojima misses way, way more often than he hits. I'm not anticipating the handling of this stuff in Ground Zeroes to be good (a separate issue from it being tasteful, which is difficult to apply to the issues being talked about here). It might be, but I don't expect that it will. He has always been a better designer than writer.
I'm not comfortable with the idea of Metal Gear having
any rape whatsoever, much less a minor being forced into committing the act rape at gunpoint, which is itself rape by any reasonable definition, as if Kojima was trying to come up with the most traumatic scenario possible for Chico, acting as both survivor and aggressor, and then frame it in such a way that it takes away from the relentless horror of what's being done to Paz
because it flies in the face of my understanding of the series. The subject matter is repugnant, and while that is not an inherently evil thing it really makes me wonder why Kojima feels this is the direction the series needs to go in. But, again: I do not think he is a good writer, save by rare accident.
I do not stand in judgment of anyone who gives him the benefit of the doubt because they think he's a good writer, regardless of how much I disagree with them.
It's good to be offended by this stuff and it's good to talk about it and maybe it's even good to be angry about it
But I don't think it's at a point, yet, where we ought to be angry at each other
+1
Options
MattitudePaste Pot PeteKicking The BucketRegistered Userregular
Star Trek is art.
Spock is art.
McCoy is not.
I got this Tumblr and I don't know how to use it.
Decide on the next line by the rhyme when I choose it.
Also I put songs on YouTube
The musings of this lonely rube.
I made a thread once. It didn't end well for me.
0
Options
CorporateLogoThe toilet knowshow I feelRegistered Userregular
thing is I think hotline Miami is a better game than spec ops with regards to a message about murder. I don't like either game (I really just can't play hm because of the effects making me motion sick and I don't think the message is good enough to make myself actually vomit.) but I do think that you can make a game enjoyable on some level while also making the player feel bad or at least question themselves.
It's a pretty effective way of sending across the message "no war isn't supposed to be fun, stop enjoying yourself"
"But please give us sixty dollars, and here are some achievements to unlock!
But war is bad for realsies, guys, I'm serious.
And check out New Game+ for hidden content!"
How do you make something that can't be forgiven by the fact that it's in an entertaining video game
you can't have it both ways.
Spec Ops gets a lot of deserved shit for being ham handed, but it was at least committed to its thesis in every aspect of the game. It was not trying to be a fun game and hook you with some collectibles or really do anything else other than be a generic third person slog and then talk (poorly) about what it means to play a shooter.
You can't go hey you know what, war is terrible, now watch me stealth kill this guy from a horse
It's a pretty effective way of sending across the message "no war isn't supposed to be fun, stop enjoying yourself"
"But please give us sixty dollars, and here are some achievements to unlock!
But war is bad for realsies, guys, I'm serious.
And check out New Game+ for hidden content!"
How do you make something that can't be forgiven by the fact that it's in an entertaining video game
you can't have it both ways.
Spec Ops gets a lot of deserved shit for being ham handed, but it was at least committed to its thesis in every aspect of the game. It was not trying to be a fun game and hook you with some collectibles or really do anything else other than be a generic third person slog and then talk (poorly) about what it means to play a shooter.
You can't go hey you know what, war is terrible, now watch me stealth kill this guy from a horse
Posts
I tried to look up pictures of projectors, but I didn't know if anyone still remembers what those are
Anyway, you're projecting
it's not about you
Doc: That's right, twenty five years into the future. I've always dreamed on seeing the future, looking beyond my years, seeing the progress of mankind. I'll also be able to see who wins the next twenty-five world series.
Use the overhead projector
Circle the part where anyone ever said anything about looking down on people who like Metal Gear
So in Britain, at least, Video Games are Art.
Shit, let me have this, it's one of the few things my country does right.
Decide on the next line by the rhyme when I choose it.
Also I put songs on YouTube
The musings of this lonely rube.
I made a thread once. It didn't end well for me.
We discussed this yesterday
I'm still buying the game on Tuesday, and I'm mostly still excited to play it
But unless it turns out all this info is just straight-up wrong there's really no defending that aspect of the game
I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying the other parts of it but still conceding that "yeah this part is FUCKED" and I don't think anyone at the very least SHOULD, I'm not going to say they WON'T, think less of someone for it
At no point did anyone bring up that liking Kojima games makes you a misogynist, nor does buying Ground Zeroes condone rape, and nobody here has even implied that
A R T
It's a commentary on war.
Shits deep.
And slippery
what are you doing
Justifying the horrid scenes is. Brushing the horrid scenes off like it's nothing is. Saying "maybe there's a reason for it" is. Constantly giving the benefit of the doubt just because you happen to like the series and couldn't imagine something like this being done unironically or without purpose is.
Steam
art can be bad
stop being insecure about art, nerds
The audiolog being talked about is literally only worth a damn if the character is not in fact dead and shows up in MGSV, because otherwise it's a load of garbage that could have been cut completely, and the male character's trauma developed some other way.
games are
Yeah, I'm not saying that certain parts of that game are not fucked up. I think it's an entirely personal thing what media people decide to expose themselves to, I've just begun to resent the overwhelming sense of judgement I'm feelin from my favourite thread on the forum. I was following the conversation last night, so sorry if I'm repeating stuff.
If anything, I'm beginning to worry that there's something wrong with me in that I don't feel the same outrage as other people.
It's a perfect comment on how birdshit can ruin even the best of days, after your grandest achievments. It's a fatalistic masterpiece.
Why yes, I am being sarcastic.
Decide on the next line by the rhyme when I choose it.
Also I put songs on YouTube
The musings of this lonely rube.
I made a thread once. It didn't end well for me.
everything is fart
Steam
You really have to stop posting pictures of me without consulting me beforehand
you can't have it both ways.
Spec Ops gets a lot of deserved shit for being ham handed, but it was at least committed to its thesis in every aspect of the game. It was not trying to be a fun game and hook you with some collectibles or really do anything else other than be a generic third person slog and then talk (poorly) about what it means to play a shooter.
You can't go hey you know what, war is terrible, now watch me stealth kill this guy from a horse
I dig a nice chess board.
Absolutely
I'd love to have a super nice marble chess board
I had a crazy nice ceramic one but too many of the pieces broke in a move
Art has no qualitative threshhold it has to be passed in order to be art. Most art, from a single perspective, is pretty lousy.
Metal Gear is art. Is is often very, very bad art.
There is nothing wrong with having horrible, horrible shit in your art. There are works which use them as lynchpins of characters or even the entirety of works in and of themselves. Some great writers can make this shit work. Some writers can't, because they are poo biscuits, or otherwise incapable.
Kojima misses way, way more often than he hits. I'm not anticipating the handling of this stuff in Ground Zeroes to be good (a separate issue from it being tasteful, which is difficult to apply to the issues being talked about here). It might be, but I don't expect that it will. He has always been a better designer than writer.
I'm not comfortable with the idea of Metal Gear having
I do not stand in judgment of anyone who gives him the benefit of the doubt because they think he's a good writer, regardless of how much I disagree with them.
It's good to be offended by this stuff and it's good to talk about it and maybe it's even good to be angry about it
But I don't think it's at a point, yet, where we ought to be angry at each other
Spock is art.
McCoy is not.
Decide on the next line by the rhyme when I choose it.
Also I put songs on YouTube
The musings of this lonely rube.
I made a thread once. It didn't end well for me.
None more art
I actually think this is important
It's one of the only ways we're going to be able to change each other's minds for the better
This scene is definitely art
People point to this as everything DmC got wrong
I say it's the symbol of everything DmC did right
Why?
see also: pizza dong
Because it subverts your message
Farts are very real.