can unmake galaxies, and have professed to been fighting wars before Earth was formed. If true, then that implies that the White God isn't "faith powered" like the rest of the supernatural world and is on a different playing field than other supernatural powers.
Of course, it could be a case of believing your own propaganda.
But if true, then what threat could the Outsiders have that the White God would notice unless Outsiders themselves were similarly powerful?
They claim to be ultra-powerful. We've actually not seen much evidence of said power.
Harry at least believes them, but then he can be wrong.
There's something odd going on with the white god, and he/her/its agents, but we lack information to figure out just what it is.
Harry's seen them though, he knows they're powerful enough (or at least numerous enough) that someone thought creating and setting the Winter Court in place to hold them off was a good idea. It seems likely that the ones that have made it inside aren't the most powerful, just the ones that were small enough and smart enough to sneak through without getting noticed.
Also, the ability to destroy a galaxy may not be that impressive, so much as a matter of leverage. Kind of a "Give me a lever long enough and strong enough, and a place to stand, and I can move the world" thing. Uriel discovered his lever, and a good place to stand, and can punch well above what his own power would normally accommodate.
Alternatively, it could be inducing a minor change that starts a chain reaction that ends with a galaxy sized cloud of dust. Kind of like knocking over dominoes: once they're set up correctly, you only have to nudge one to knock them all down. And if there's one thing that the White God seems to be good at in this setting, it's making sure all the pieces are set up correctly so things fall over like he wants them too.
I just want to finally see the venatori in the main line books, that one short story was great
Generally they aren't part of Harry's thing and he's one of the people they venatori leader doesn't want to know the things the venatori do. Particularly because she doesn't want to kill him. Partly because he gave her a name and has a cute kitty.
A little more info, and some stuff that Butcher has said probably wont make it into the books featuring Harry. But still, spoilers
I'm pretty sure this will never make it into the actual Dresden Files, since Harry has no idea the Oblivion War is happening, along with everyone else. So I'll share it here.
The Archive was constructed /for/ the Oblivion War. Specifically.
Yes, the Archive (and Ivy, the two aren't really divisible) know about these forgotten beings. The Archive is in essence the keeper of the dead, where they are concerned. Once the archive believes one of them has been consigned to oblivion, she holds on to the memory of that being briefly, for another thousand years or so, watching for any mention of that being in print in an effort to make sure that she is the /last/ person alive who remembers whichever hideous entity has been consigned.
And once the safety period has elapsed, and the Archive is confident that no one else remembers, she deletes the memory from the Archive. Bad guy, /gone/.
She also tries to keep track of the enemy players in the Oblivion War via watching for communications and so on. When she finds a trace of them, somewhere, she lets a cell of operatives (like Lara and Thomas) know what's up, through a blind drop, and sends them off to handle the problem.
The Oblivion War is a huge, /slow/ thing. Stuff happens every few decades, at most. That's why the Archive was created--to be an immortal awareness, something that could track and intelligently direct responses to the enemy in a war happening on an almost geological scale.
All that other stuff she says the Archive is for? Smoke and mirrors.
Kincaid, by the way, has no idea that the Oblivion War exists. It isn't like Ivy explains this stuff. She just gives orders.
The oblivion war is a fight to forget a group of beings that once lived in the world called the "Old Ones". The Outsiders were their minions, but as far as most people know, they were always just things from "beyond the gates".
I don't think the fae have to worry about disappearing if they are forgotten. Pretty sure when the whole Brothers Grimm thing was brought up it was mentioned that belief and knowledge of the fae leaves a door open between the material world and the Nevernever. The more people who know the stronger the connection, the few the weaker. If nobody knew of the fae then they would be trapped in their world and us in ours. Which would be kinda bad seeing as they are part of our nature cycle.
I had the understanding that the Outsiders were a special hive. Not so much as a hive mind as much as each one is more of a piece of a whole. Not sure where that was implied but I think it was Harry's idea when he came into mental contact with one or something. Don't really remember the details, just that something gave me that impression. With that in mind they could be the ultimate danger to free will with their corrupting influence, maybe the big reason they are such a threat. That or they just want to rend our reality asunder and make it their own?
Small Favor
1. Mab had named Harry her "Emissary", without him knowing, making him an agent of Winter. When agents of Winter are on the material realm Summer is there to oppose them since Winter is supposed to have their focus elsewhere. It also boils down to Winter/Summer being in direct opposition as part of their nature.
2. Nyysjan is correct. When Harry drew on the power of Summer it "tainted" his fire magic. So when he used fire magic, which he does ALOT, it would have acted like a signal flare for all Summer agents to come crashing down on him. Unlike the pin he had which acted like a cellphone ping, they knew the general area he was in but not his exact location. So to keep Harry from reflexively using fire Mab blocked his memory of the spell, plus some memories of the Rod when she took it to prevent the weak blocks from being broken.
White God:
Non interference is the best policy. The White God was more hands on back in the day, Old Testament, and things didn't always go so well with all the plagues, natural disasters, floods, killing of first born, and what not. Those are kind of harmful to the ever so precious free will thing that everyone is so worked up about. So now he seems to work with more subtlety, giving an extra choice, nudges in the right direction, indirect direct support, tiny twists of fortune, and reminders. Heck for all we know the White God IS reality, not an actual entity, and we're all parts of HIS whole, making the Outsiders a danger to reality and HIM.
Apparently the Venatori actually tried to do that to the Fae at one point, but it ended up going poorly and Mab ended up strewing more tales of the Fae and their past mantles in stories.
Okay, finished skin game. good book but I am a bit dissapointed that there was almost no reference to the white council characters in the last 2 books.
Someone said something about a new tv series? were they referring to the old one or something in the future?
Butcher did an AMA where he mentioned something about a TV show. If memory serves it sounded more like a pie in the sky kinda thing than a "We have a plan and funding" kinda thing
Butcher did an AMA where he mentioned something about a TV show. If memory serves it sounded more like a pie in the sky kinda thing than a "We have a plan and funding" kinda thing
I would love to see it done right...Dresden done well is something I would subscribe to a pay station for if need be.
Absolute best case scenario: HBO decides to give Dresden a shot, premieres it in Game of Thrones' time slot after Game of Thrones' season ends, after promoting it heavily. They use a slightly compressed timeline, putting up three books a year in twelve episodes (i.e. four episode per book).
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HawkstoneDon't sweat the petty things, and don't pet the sweaty things. Somewhere outside of BarstowRegistered Userregular
Absolute best case scenario: HBO decides to give Dresden a shot, premieres it in Game of Thrones' time slot after Game of Thrones' season ends, after promoting it heavily. They use a slightly compressed timeline, putting up three books a year in twelve episodes (i.e. four episode per book).
That is pretty much the best case...FX and Showtime have also shown the patience, budget and willingness to not flinch at mature content....which although there isn't a ton, there is enough that I would fear what network tv would do with it.
It's mostly about landing it on a network where they're willing to do a serial (which is a lot easier now than it was when the Dresden Files was made), and don't want to mess with the books too much. It's not that messing with the books would be a bad thing, but it runs into another problem like the other Harry, where you're making media about a series that isn't finished yet, and when you start hacking away a ton of the subtext and foreshadowing evaporates.
I think the major problem with a tv show based more specifically on the books is that going in order the first 3 books don't really make a great narrative. they may set things up later but it basically means people would have to sit through 3 books of very similar story with very little reference to prior events and I frankly don't know if that is 'get a second season' worthy. the rest of the books were great, first three were frankly kinda forgettable. If a friend had not warned me to keep going afterward and I had not been kinda starved for something new to read I may have stopped after book 2.
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
I think the major problem with a tv show based more specifically on the books is that going in order the first 3 books don't really make a great narrative. they may set things up later but it basically means people would have to sit through 3 books of very similar story with very little reference to prior events and I frankly don't know if that is 'get a second season' worthy. the rest of the books were great, first three were frankly kinda forgettable. If a friend had not warned me to keep going afterward and I had not been kinda starved for something new to read I may have stopped after book 2.
I think the story could be re-worked enough for TV. Especially the second book, it has great screen villains. Werewolfs everywhere? Fuck yes. The police station scene would be an amazing episode from an action perspective. You could end one episode after Harry has infiltrated the police station and hears the Werewolf (can't remember the exact term from the book) roar for the first time. Then start up the next episode with the battle for the station. I would love to see on screen the scene where he....
blasts the werewolf through the wall of the station and across a few blocks, that would be amazing.
Also later books/TV episodes spoiler
who wouldn't want to see on screen Harry riding Sue? FUCK YES.
Oh yeah the later books would definitely make great shows. especially if it was an HBO kind of thing where they wouldn't have to step around dirty words and the occasional sexy vampire.
I tried watching the earlier tv series and I cant quite get over the 'hockey stick is my staff and drumstick is my blasting rod' thing...it makes it seem so much more immature a thing.
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webguy20I spend too much time on the InternetRegistered Userregular
Even though I know it is inaccurate, I always pictured Dresden's blasting rod as one of those rain sticks you can get in an American west tourist trap.
I have a soft spot for the TV series since it was how I first discovered Dresden. I still hear Paul Blackthorne's voice in my head while reading the books.
I think the major problem with a tv show based more specifically on the books is that going in order the first 3 books don't really make a great narrative. they may set things up later but it basically means people would have to sit through 3 books of very similar story with very little reference to prior events and I frankly don't know if that is 'get a second season' worthy. the rest of the books were great, first three were frankly kinda forgettable. If a friend had not warned me to keep going afterward and I had not been kinda starved for something new to read I may have stopped after book 2.
It's TV, you don't start with the first book.
You start with Restoration of Faith and Viginette , possibly in the same episode. Then you include several episodes of background investigations that happen prior to Storm Front, toss in Welcome to the Jungle, then end the first season with a multi-part Storm Front episode.
StormFront references prior events that just weren't written at the time it was. Harry references the hellhound that attacked the Blue Beetle and put it in it's current shape (which happened in Welcome to the Jungle). Within the first pages there's a reference to a case in Branson, Missouri that turned out to be a dud. The first conversation with Murphy establishes that Harry has a working relationship with Murphy, but hasn't been used for some time, and Welcome to the Jungle had a similar set up. So episodes going from Restoration of Faith's officer Murphy to Welcome to the Jungle's Lieutenant Murphy would be good.
I'd actually imagine Netflix would be an easier venue for a series like Dresden. They could just do "chapters" of 4~ hour long episodes 2 or 3 times a year, with a "season" being 3 chapters.
I think one of the bigger logistical problems is aging. How old is Harry in Storm Front? 22? Molly is introduced at like, 12 or 13? Casting would either be really tough or really inconsistent for a lot of the parts.
Really, though. Christopher Lee for Nicodemus. A+ number one.
It would be pretty easy to compress a lot of stuff so casting shouldn't be that hard.
And I don't think the chances of a TV show are that bad. Shows like "Grimm" and "Once Upon a Time" are pretty popular, and "Constantine" is premiering this fall.
It would be pretty easy to compress a lot of stuff so casting shouldn't be that hard.
And I don't think the chances of a TV show are that bad. Shows like "Grimm" and "Once Upon a Time" are pretty popular, and "Constantine" is premiering this fall.
Yeah. I'd use an 18-19 year old actress for Molly, and introduce her as being 16-17 in the first year/first three books or so. So, by the time White Night rolls around, the actress would be in her early twenties and the character would be 18-19.
It's Maggie's age that's really problematic to cast.
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It would be pretty easy to compress a lot of stuff so casting shouldn't be that hard.
And I don't think the chances of a TV show are that bad. Shows like "Grimm" and "Once Upon a Time" are pretty popular, and "Constantine" is premiering this fall.
Yeah. I'd use an 18-19 year old actress for Molly, and introduce her as being 16-17 in the first year/first three books or so. So, by the time White Night rolls around, the actress would be in her early twenties and the character would be 18-19.
It's Maggie's age that's really problematic to cast.
Nah, people are used to children getting recast, they'd accept it as long as it was made obvious that the character had just aged.
Just because you compress the time for each individual book doesnt mean you cant have time breaks inbetween books as long as its mentioned in the show.
Am i wrong for thinking that being a good guy during my life leads to a heaven that includes a movie theater that includes a zillion seasons of firefly and every book i ever loved turned into a really good movie adaptation? (with a date of course).
Am i wrong for thinking that being a good guy during my life leads to a heaven that includes a movie theater that includes a zillion seasons of firefly and every book i ever loved turned into a really good movie adaptation? (with a date of course).
Hell is pretty much the same. Their seasons of Firefly are directed by Michael Bay though.
Am i wrong for thinking that being a good guy during my life leads to a heaven that includes a movie theater that includes a zillion seasons of firefly and every book i ever loved turned into a really good movie adaptation? (with a date of course).
Hell is pretty much the same. Their seasons of Firefly are directed by Michael Bay though.
Wow, I think that would even get people to stop mastubating in fear.
Speaking of heaven and hell, few things make me feel my mortality as much as long book series like these. I was in my 20s when I first started reading the Dresden files, and at Butcher's current 1-1.5 year rate, I'm probably going to be in my 40s when it ends.
Sanderson's big 10 story epic is even worse. I finished reading Words of Radiance over the weekend, and I couldn't shake the thought that if he continues to take 4 years per book, I'll be in my 60s for the last one. Even 2 years per book will leave me approaching 50.
I'd actually imagine Netflix would be an easier venue for a series like Dresden. They could just do "chapters" of 4~ hour long episodes 2 or 3 times a year, with a "season" being 3 chapters.
I think one of the bigger logistical problems is aging. How old is Harry in Storm Front? 22? Molly is introduced at like, 12 or 13? Casting would either be really tough or really inconsistent for a lot of the parts.
Really, though. Christopher Lee for Nicodemus. A+ number one.
Each book is roughly one year from the previous ones. Which works within the timeframe of shooting a series provided they include side stories and don't shoot multiple seasons at the same time.
For what it's worth, Butcher said he'd be thrilled to have it as an animated show, which works well with his "unlimited budget".
Speaking of heaven and hell, few things make me feel my mortality as much as long book series like these. I was in my 20s when I first started reading the Dresden files, and at Butcher's current 1-1.5 year rate, I'm probably going to be in my 40s when it ends.
Sanderson's big 10 story epic is even worse. I finished reading Words of Radiance over the weekend, and I couldn't shake the thought that if he continues to take 4 years per book, I'll be in my 60s for the last one. Even 2 years per book will leave me approaching 50.
It's just something to look forward to
That's not to say I dont think Sanderson needs to be cloned about 6 times so each of them can concentrate on each of his worlds and we get more of his stuff faster.
BTW, i had a few questions. I browsed through this thread but didnt see much of this really addressed.
1) Any ideas on Why Lucrea was so against the little fairies eating pizza? Maybe it has to do with toot-toot getting larger? Does mortal food turn fairies human or maybe make them full fairies?
2) After i plowed through all 14 books in 3 weeks i started going back and rereading, and I'm starting to catch the early hints about harrys destiny. In summer knight they mention something about 'what he was meant to do' and 'facts known only to the council'. Later books they are calling him starborn occasionally but even harry seems to not even give this name a second thought in introspection. Anyone more familiar with supernatural stories familiar with that term?
I'd actually imagine Netflix would be an easier venue for a series like Dresden. They could just do "chapters" of 4~ hour long episodes 2 or 3 times a year, with a "season" being 3 chapters.
I think one of the bigger logistical problems is aging. How old is Harry in Storm Front? 22? Molly is introduced at like, 12 or 13? Casting would either be really tough or really inconsistent for a lot of the parts.
Really, though. Christopher Lee for Nicodemus. A+ number one.
Each book is roughly one year from the previous ones. Which works within the timeframe of shooting a series provided they include side stories and don't shoot multiple seasons at the same time.
For what it's worth, Butcher said he'd be thrilled to have it as an animated show, which works well with his "unlimited budget".
BTW, i had a few questions. I browsed through this thread but didnt see much of this really addressed.
1) Any ideas on Why Lucrea was so against the little fairies eating pizza? Maybe it has to do with toot-toot getting larger? Does mortal food turn fairies human or maybe make them full fairies?
No one's really sure why Lacuna was worried, yet, but it might have to do with Toot's growth.
2) After i plowed through all 14 books in 3 weeks i started going back and rereading, and I'm starting to catch the early hints about harrys destiny. In summer knight they mention something about 'what he was meant to do' and 'facts known only to the council'. Later books they are calling him starborn occasionally but even harry seems to not even give this name a second thought in introspection. Anyone more familiar with supernatural stories familiar with that term?
There's a ton of astrological significance in many mythologies that's applied to events or specific heroes. Everything from Shinto, to Celtic, to Norse, to Christianity have some significance placed on astrology and portentous birth. We don't know yet quite which way Butcher's leaning with this one yet.
BTW, i had a few questions. I browsed through this thread but didnt see much of this really addressed.
1) Any ideas on Why Lucrea was so against the little fairies eating pizza? Maybe it has to do with toot-toot getting larger? Does mortal food turn fairies human or maybe make them full fairies?
As said, we really don't know, but the real simple obvious answer is the whole obligation thing the Fae have going. Toot has indentured himself to Harry for all eternity by now by the low means of pizza consumption.
As said, we really don't know, but the real simple obvious answer is the whole obligation thing the Fae have going. Toot has indentured himself to Harry for all eternity by now by the low means of pizza consumption.
Yeah.
Through service to Harry and through massive pizza consumption, Toot is slowly changing his nature. He's in deep enough now that he'd make suicidal charges to try to help Harry not because Harry had ordered it and bound him to do so, but because he can.
If you were to tell Toot from Storm Front what current Toot is like, he'd laugh his ass off and not believe you.
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Like, assuming the forums are still around then (I assume they will be), I may have my 20 Years badger before that gets sorted out/revealed.
... wow.
Harry's seen them though, he knows they're powerful enough (or at least numerous enough) that someone thought creating and setting the Winter Court in place to hold them off was a good idea. It seems likely that the ones that have made it inside aren't the most powerful, just the ones that were small enough and smart enough to sneak through without getting noticed.
Alternatively, it could be inducing a minor change that starts a chain reaction that ends with a galaxy sized cloud of dust. Kind of like knocking over dominoes: once they're set up correctly, you only have to nudge one to knock them all down. And if there's one thing that the White God seems to be good at in this setting, it's making sure all the pieces are set up correctly so things fall over like he wants them too.
Generally they aren't part of Harry's thing and he's one of the people they venatori leader doesn't want to know the things the venatori do. Particularly because she doesn't want to kill him. Partly because he gave her a name and has a cute kitty.
A little more info, and some stuff that Butcher has said probably wont make it into the books featuring Harry. But still, spoilers
The oblivion war is a fight to forget a group of beings that once lived in the world called the "Old Ones". The Outsiders were their minions, but as far as most people know, they were always just things from "beyond the gates".
I had the understanding that the Outsiders were a special hive. Not so much as a hive mind as much as each one is more of a piece of a whole. Not sure where that was implied but I think it was Harry's idea when he came into mental contact with one or something. Don't really remember the details, just that something gave me that impression. With that in mind they could be the ultimate danger to free will with their corrupting influence, maybe the big reason they are such a threat. That or they just want to rend our reality asunder and make it their own?
Small Favor
2. Nyysjan is correct. When Harry drew on the power of Summer it "tainted" his fire magic. So when he used fire magic, which he does ALOT, it would have acted like a signal flare for all Summer agents to come crashing down on him. Unlike the pin he had which acted like a cellphone ping, they knew the general area he was in but not his exact location. So to keep Harry from reflexively using fire Mab blocked his memory of the spell, plus some memories of the Rod when she took it to prevent the weak blocks from being broken.
White God:
Non interference is the best policy. The White God was more hands on back in the day, Old Testament, and things didn't always go so well with all the plagues, natural disasters, floods, killing of first born, and what not. Those are kind of harmful to the ever so precious free will thing that everyone is so worked up about. So now he seems to work with more subtlety, giving an extra choice, nudges in the right direction, indirect direct support, tiny twists of fortune, and reminders. Heck for all we know the White God IS reality, not an actual entity, and we're all parts of HIS whole, making the Outsiders a danger to reality and HIM.
As lame as the above sounds, I kind of like the general overall analogy. Good idea.
Someone said something about a new tv series? were they referring to the old one or something in the future?
I would love to see it done right...Dresden done well is something I would subscribe to a pay station for if need be.
Butcher has the rights again, so there's that.
Absolute best case scenario: HBO decides to give Dresden a shot, premieres it in Game of Thrones' time slot after Game of Thrones' season ends, after promoting it heavily. They use a slightly compressed timeline, putting up three books a year in twelve episodes (i.e. four episode per book).
That is pretty much the best case...FX and Showtime have also shown the patience, budget and willingness to not flinch at mature content....which although there isn't a ton, there is enough that I would fear what network tv would do with it.
I think the story could be re-worked enough for TV. Especially the second book, it has great screen villains. Werewolfs everywhere? Fuck yes. The police station scene would be an amazing episode from an action perspective. You could end one episode after Harry has infiltrated the police station and hears the Werewolf (can't remember the exact term from the book) roar for the first time. Then start up the next episode with the battle for the station. I would love to see on screen the scene where he....
Also later books/TV episodes spoiler
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
I tried watching the earlier tv series and I cant quite get over the 'hockey stick is my staff and drumstick is my blasting rod' thing...it makes it seem so much more immature a thing.
Origin ID: Discgolfer27
Untappd ID: Discgolfer1981
It's TV, you don't start with the first book.
You start with Restoration of Faith and Viginette , possibly in the same episode. Then you include several episodes of background investigations that happen prior to Storm Front, toss in Welcome to the Jungle, then end the first season with a multi-part Storm Front episode.
StormFront references prior events that just weren't written at the time it was. Harry references the hellhound that attacked the Blue Beetle and put it in it's current shape (which happened in Welcome to the Jungle). Within the first pages there's a reference to a case in Branson, Missouri that turned out to be a dud. The first conversation with Murphy establishes that Harry has a working relationship with Murphy, but hasn't been used for some time, and Welcome to the Jungle had a similar set up. So episodes going from Restoration of Faith's officer Murphy to Welcome to the Jungle's Lieutenant Murphy would be good.
I think one of the bigger logistical problems is aging. How old is Harry in Storm Front? 22? Molly is introduced at like, 12 or 13? Casting would either be really tough or really inconsistent for a lot of the parts.
Really, though. Christopher Lee for Nicodemus. A+ number one.
And I don't think the chances of a TV show are that bad. Shows like "Grimm" and "Once Upon a Time" are pretty popular, and "Constantine" is premiering this fall.
Yeah. I'd use an 18-19 year old actress for Molly, and introduce her as being 16-17 in the first year/first three books or so. So, by the time White Night rolls around, the actress would be in her early twenties and the character would be 18-19.
It's Maggie's age that's really problematic to cast.
Nah, people are used to children getting recast, they'd accept it as long as it was made obvious that the character had just aged.
Hell is pretty much the same. Their seasons of Firefly are directed by Michael Bay though.
Wow, I think that would even get people to stop mastubating in fear.
Sanderson's big 10 story epic is even worse. I finished reading Words of Radiance over the weekend, and I couldn't shake the thought that if he continues to take 4 years per book, I'll be in my 60s for the last one. Even 2 years per book will leave me approaching 50.
Each book is roughly one year from the previous ones. Which works within the timeframe of shooting a series provided they include side stories and don't shoot multiple seasons at the same time.
For what it's worth, Butcher said he'd be thrilled to have it as an animated show, which works well with his "unlimited budget".
It's just something to look forward to
That's not to say I dont think Sanderson needs to be cloned about 6 times so each of them can concentrate on each of his worlds and we get more of his stuff faster.
1) Any ideas on Why Lucrea was so against the little fairies eating pizza? Maybe it has to do with toot-toot getting larger? Does mortal food turn fairies human or maybe make them full fairies?
2) After i plowed through all 14 books in 3 weeks i started going back and rereading, and I'm starting to catch the early hints about harrys destiny. In summer knight they mention something about 'what he was meant to do' and 'facts known only to the council'. Later books they are calling him starborn occasionally but even harry seems to not even give this name a second thought in introspection. Anyone more familiar with supernatural stories familiar with that term?
I'd like to see it on a premium channel.
There's a ton of astrological significance in many mythologies that's applied to events or specific heroes. Everything from Shinto, to Celtic, to Norse, to Christianity have some significance placed on astrology and portentous birth. We don't know yet quite which way Butcher's leaning with this one yet.
Super secret speculation
Yeah.
Through service to Harry and through massive pizza consumption, Toot is slowly changing his nature. He's in deep enough now that he'd make suicidal charges to try to help Harry not because Harry had ordered it and bound him to do so, but because he can.
If you were to tell Toot from Storm Front what current Toot is like, he'd laugh his ass off and not believe you.