Things I punched to death tonight in my NG wrap up
Belfry Gargs
Undead Purgatory boss (stupid easy once you get the hang of iframing the wheel)
Belfry Gargs NG+ (via an ascetic. It doesn't affect anything else and I wanted that ring. Fight was tense but a lot of fun)
Think I'll aim to get the giant king tonight as well but that's going to be tough. He doesn't project nearly so well, and is one shotty.
I also lowered my FPS down to 30 but didn't really notice a big iframe difference and the controls felt real sluggish. Probably something to do with nvidia forcing a lower framerate. Also it looked way worse. 60 for life.
Shieldless for life, though. So satisfying. I might run 2her in my next build, or dual wield something else. Although actually I might just get back to my int fth caster and be spellz only.
I don't really think any of the encounters are necessarily pulling based. You just have the option if you want it. You can run ahead and dodge or shield or do whatever. You just have the option. And I don't even think this is a cop-out answer, I genuinely believe every encounter in the game basically is designed to be fought multiple ways.
As to bosses, I agree some are boring, but not really for the hug their leg part. That is just another option you have. People find strategies that work based on how they play the game. There isn't a single boss where they wanted you to hug the leg. In fact there are multiple where you are punished for doing so.
Basically, encounter design isn't weak because the most efficient method you find is boring. You don't have to play efficiently. You can go balls out crazy and do just fine, although you are going to risk a lot more than playing careful. The series as a whole is made to be incredibly flexible to what you want to do. Some ways break them more than others, but by and large I don't see that as a flaw. It just depends on how break-y it is.
she's not even close to the worst boss in the game, the dragon shrine guy is the worst boss in the game
I actually think Nashandra's a pretty good boss fight... DLC:
Elana or whatever her name is is a better fight in that style though.
she's not the worst boss in the game, the dragon shrine guy is the worst boss in the game
I've never even tried him. He seemed boring and tedious for basically no reward. I tried the other optional boss but it didn't seem worth the headache, given what you have to go through to even reach it on every single death.
Power Within + Greater Combustion was my go-to for pretty much the whole game
Except against bosses
Then I brought out Flame Whip, and ain't nothing living through that shit. I don't know if there's actually a faster way to kill the Four Kings than with a properly spaced Flame Whip.
she's not the worst boss in the game, the dragon shrine guy is the worst boss in the game
I've never even tried him. He seemed boring and tedious for basically no reward. I tried the other optional boss but it didn't seem worth the headache, given what you have to go through to even reach it on every single death.
I've never actually beaten the dragon shrine boss so I didn't know he didn't give you anything. Which is the "other" optional boss? Old Dragonslayer, Executioner's Chariot, the Royal Rat Authority and Royal Rat Vanguard, Darklurker, Smelter Demon and Vendrick are all pretty optional.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited July 2014
They don't balance in a fine tuned, specific enemy encounter way.
They balance based on feel.
They straight out have said they don't pay much attention to balance on such an individual level.
They balance it based on being able to rise above and defeat what killed you and the level of satisfaction you gain from that. They try to have multiple ways to do it, but they aren't particularly interested in what those methods are other than in a general way.
They don't design each encounter so that it adheres to the current accepted standards of modern action game design. In that sense they aren't paying much attention to what their customers "like" at all. Because they don't want you to like it the first time you meet it. They want you to die.
They want you to die and then think about what just happened.
Not using the methods you used in every other action game, not using "currently accepted standards of modern action game design", but how it works in this game in front of you. They want you to learn how it works, figure out, from amongst the many methods available, which one is best for you, and then have you take that plan, that new idea, and make it work with a responsive action system.
Then when you win, you won because you rose above. You waded through hell and you put your hands around the Devils scrawny neck and you throttled him until it was over. Then you look around and you go "wow, I died so much to this fucker but now he's mine".
And then you are supposed to walk out of hell with your head held high, without looking back, ready for the next adversary.
This is definitely not going to please everybody because a lot of people, more or less, rip apart an encounter after they beat it and go "man that sucked because x y z" and completely forget that the point is you beat it you are supposed to be happy.
But they can't be happy because they are far too busy being negative about the past.
If you look back after beating something in this game you've stepped straight out of the experience they designed.
It wont hold up to that scrutiny because they don't design the game that way.
Their tool box of possibilities for difficulty have no limitations. There's no technique that is off limits mechanically based on any kind of ideal.
You don't have to like that. But you do need to come to terms with the fact that when it comes to making their games they aren't running off the same rule book of expectations that we are using when we decide whether or not we want to buy them.
Otherwise you are going to continually expect them to adhere to a rule book they clearly and explicitly have said they don't read.
Now what does all that mean for pulling? It means pulling is one option out of many. If you want to try a different way go ahead. It is entirely possible to never pull any enemy in both games with a ranged weapon and beat it.
I did it.
It took time and effort to learn but I did it. I died more than I would normally. But you know what? You know what I gained? I gained the ability to play these games however the hell I wanted. I had a problem, I had an adversary, I looked at my options (self restricted), I looked at the mechanics as they worked in this game (not how I thought they should work), I came up with a plan, I put the time and effort in to apply and master the application of my plan, I beat the enemy to death with my fists and I walked away from there with my head held high.
That is their design and it works.
So if you hate playing a certain way stop playing it that way.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Did about an hour of totally impromptu dragon summoning pvp. No fists, their range is garbage for pvp. I two handed a sun sword instead. Lost more than I won, but not by a lot. Up to 10 dragon scales now and I'll probably spend some time tomorrow trying to make that an even 20 for the armor.
Final fight of the night was an invader just before I was going to Majula. Dual wielding greatswords. I dodged out of his first hit which probably would've killed me, I'm not running a pvp build for lots of health, and caught him in enough raw damage from the sun sword to off him. Felt good man.
Favorite fight of the night though was when me and a guy, after a solid 3 minutes of back and forth, killed each other at exactly the same time. I hope they found it as awesome as I did.
No real bullshitty builds or anything, that it noticed. Fought against someone using a lot of magic and destroyed em both times. All my losses were to melee, primarily, but nothing specific stood out as being impossible to win against.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
edited July 2014
One of my favorite fights when I was naked caestus pvping for my dragon scales was a really fat lady in full Velstadt.
We were both rolling and rolling and rolling. I was slowly chipping her roly poly butt down in between her swings and then when we were both on low health she did the first hit of the r2.
She'd done that a lot.
I knew what I was going up against.
I moved in to punish.
She did the delayed second hit.
She'd never done that.
I wanted to applaud.
Morninglord on
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
she's not the worst boss in the game, the dragon shrine guy is the worst boss in the game
I've never even tried him. He seemed boring and tedious for basically no reward. I tried the other optional boss but it didn't seem worth the headache, given what you have to go through to even reach it on every single death.
You referring to the Chariot, there?
Also yeah, I never bothered with the Ancient Dragon. That boss is bullshit on a stick.
Fucker one shots you with pretty much all his attacks. Fuck that.
I don't do fights that have no margin for error.
I put my summon sign down and got brought in some ten times to help others with him, and never once survived to see that fucker take any real damage.
Once, me and another phantom were doing some emote while the host ran in, and by the time we got in the boss was shooting fire at the fog wall land we died immediately.
There's a clear line between challenging and straight-up unfair, and Dark Souls 1 pretty consistently stayed the former. DS2 mostly does as well, but it dips a little too close to the latter sometimes.
It's not that I can't get good at it, I just don't like doing it enough to want to get good. I am just incapable of enjoying competitive play for more than very brief stints, if at all. Even with games I really liked, like Smash Bros, I just can't play against o theirs for long before it just stops being fun and I get too frustrated to continue. Like, to the point where even if I'm winning I'm not having fun because of how stressful and frustrating it is for me.
It's especially annoying for me when it can just suddenly happen while I'm in the middle of doing something else.
My biggest complaint about Dark Souls 1 and 2 is the requirement to have PVP turned on in order to do COOP.
Except 2 actually made it worse by allowing you to get invaded whether or not you're eligible to summon, which is kind of horseshit.
I end up dead, walk back to the boss, see like a half dozen invasion/dragon signs along the way but can't find a single phantom marker unless I spent another effigy or help someone else kill a boss? Bleugh.
At least getting summoned is stupidly easy now. At least, until NG+. :P
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
To be fair you aren't really supposed to fight him.
He's one of the only bosses in either game I never really feel any desire to fight.
He's just chillin.
I'm cool with that.
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
Yeah, it's not that hard to kill Vendrick with only 4 boss souls.
In fact, not including the AD's, only one of them is even at all a challenge to obtain, one is a little effort but still easy, and two are effortless once you know how to get to them.
I have killed the Ancient dragon several times, and hated every minute of it. He never gets any easier, or any less bullshit. Easily the most annoying fight in any of the three games.
I decided to get the very first character I created ready to start the DLC, which involved getting the King's shield, the dragon chime and sunlight spear. I spent so long fighting the dragon, vendrick, and the darkstalker and grinding sunlight medals against the throners and nashandra that I didn't really feel like playing any more dark souls when the DLC finally unlocked. I will give it another shot this weekend though.
At SM 2 million I wasn't having much luck with the iron king. Then again, I didn't try that long.
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MorninglordI'm tired of being Batman,so today I'll be Owl.Registered Userregular
I keep forgetting about it and killing all the bosses.
I've never managed to get the sun sword because I just think "Once I get past this boss I can x for my build" and then I steam roll the next six or seven bosses and I'm near the end of the game and I suddenly realise "Wait..."
(PSN: Morninglord) (Steam: Morninglord) (WiiU: Morninglord22) I like to record and toss up a lot of random gaming videos here.
I was clubbing it for the longest time, but the sun sword has A scaling for Strength AND Dex, which is really hard to top.b
Also I finally swapped out of the elite knight armor and am using the Throne Watcher set.
It's pretty nice!
I was talking about this in the other dark souls thread, but I'm kind of disappointed in the sun sword
Even with 40 Str and Dex, the damage is pretty low. It's a really good straight sword, but straight swords kind of suck by themselves, I'm discovering. Great animations but terrible damage, especially since strike damage is better against any enemy wearing armour (and lots that aren't!). I switched to strength and have been using a mastodon great sword/butcher knife one handed, and they're doing loads more damage. Instead of taking five or six hits to kill a mob, it takes two or three.
At first I thought low damage wouldn't bother me, but it makes bosses take a really long time.
The dudes with the giant maces are fucking satan. They never stop swinging.
Rest of the dudes are easy, long as you got decent ranged and can pick off extra dudes until you can 1v1.
The mace guys are remarkably easy using the twin dragon shield and anything that attacks fast. It seems stupid, but moving up right in front of them reduces the damage a ton, takes virtually no stamina to block. As long as you're not trying to beat 'em up with a greatsword or something you can rip 'em up pretty easily.
The Ancient Dragon is poorly designed, though not so much as the Fire Wyvern or whatever it was called in Dark Souls the first
There is nothing satisfying about killing either of them; in both cases it feels like you are tricking and/or brute-forcing the system, and nothing else
That said, the Ancient Dragon can be locked down into a predictable, almost inescapable pattern, so it's at least less frustrating than the Wyvern
Re: encounter design, it's not a question of balance, it's a question of incentives. It is very true that you can attack an encounter many different ways, and if you find the conservative approach boring, you should try a different one.
It took me a long time to learn that in Dark Souls 1, but it only became an option when I was good enough at the game.
The conservative approach is not just one among many. It is the default, the most common, the most effective for the least effort. Running into a room and fighting four tough mobs at a time is more exciting, but you'll also die ten times more often. This teaches players that it isn't a good idea. For that approach to work, you need to be really good, which means you've already played the game a bunch and have probably experienced a conservative approach.
The ability to approach it differently doesn't change what the encounter design incentivizes, teaches, and rewards. Players gravitate toward the things that are effective. It isn't fun to spend an hour shooting that dragon to death in Demon Souls, but it also isn't fun dying to it repeatedly for an hour or more! Success is, for most players, the main goal. Succeeding through tedium versus repeatedly failing with an aggressive approach is a constant choice in Souls games, and the game is so punishing that success by any means is very desirable.
And conservative is plenty of fun - the tension, the surprise, the careful engagement of unknown dangers. It's when that tedious but clearly effective choice appears, as an alternative to hurling yourself against the encounter and dying until the enemies stop spawning. Look at how many people advise that you need a ranged option, how they talk about tackling a room by pulling enemies, how most players gravitate to shields how messages always tell you where to stand so you can shoot tough enemies safely, etc. The game tacitly encourages that kind of play by rewarding it.
Tedium just shouldn't be rewarded, IMO. That choice shouldn't exist. It really comes down to poor AI. Enemies shouldn't stand there dumbly while you whittle them away, they should notice when their buddy beside them gets shot in the face, and maybe the dragon should take notice of the guy who's been shooting him for twenty minutes.
I noticed a big improvement along these lines from 1 to 2, so hopefully it will continue.
anyone wanna tell me where the activator is to raise the platform in the first area of the dlc that lets you cross the chasm into that cavern area embedded into the wall? I can see a poison statue creature, some other stuff across the ledge, and one of the pillars but couldnt find the button to raise it.
I get what you're saying, there certainly are parts where a truly boring annoying tactic works perfectly, but I don't think it's particularly common. The only real example I can think of are the Cyclopes where it seemed to jump up and hit me in the face with "Fight this thing and have it be hard or run in a door and shoot it for two minutes with no danger" . The rest with pulling I liken to going through it surgically, it's like when you know a Mario level. Sure it's formulaic, but I get a certain satisfaction of ripping through a room in the "optimal" fashion after struggling with it the first couple times in the same way I like playing old Mario levels and getting through fast with all the secrets and a great score.
anyone wanna tell me where the activator is to raise the platform in the first area of the dlc that lets you cross the chasm into that cavern area embedded into the wall? I can see a poison statue creature, some other stuff across the ledge, and one of the pillars but couldnt find the button to raise it.
Posts
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Belfry Gargs
Undead Purgatory boss (stupid easy once you get the hang of iframing the wheel)
Belfry Gargs NG+ (via an ascetic. It doesn't affect anything else and I wanted that ring. Fight was tense but a lot of fun)
Think I'll aim to get the giant king tonight as well but that's going to be tough. He doesn't project nearly so well, and is one shotty.
I also lowered my FPS down to 30 but didn't really notice a big iframe difference and the controls felt real sluggish. Probably something to do with nvidia forcing a lower framerate. Also it looked way worse. 60 for life.
Shieldless for life, though. So satisfying. I might run 2her in my next build, or dual wield something else. Although actually I might just get back to my int fth caster and be spellz only.
the game shouldn't encourage you to tackle it in a tedious, repetitive fashion - it should encourage cunning and skill, not cowardice
i also really don't like bosses where you have to hug their leg so they always do a suboptimal attack. what a boring fight that makes.
basically, if the encounter isn't interesting, it should be radically altered
As to bosses, I agree some are boring, but not really for the hug their leg part. That is just another option you have. People find strategies that work based on how they play the game. There isn't a single boss where they wanted you to hug the leg. In fact there are multiple where you are punished for doing so.
Basically, encounter design isn't weak because the most efficient method you find is boring. You don't have to play efficiently. You can go balls out crazy and do just fine, although you are going to risk a lot more than playing careful. The series as a whole is made to be incredibly flexible to what you want to do. Some ways break them more than others, but by and large I don't see that as a flaw. It just depends on how break-y it is.
sword and board, circle around the enemy has always been "optimal"
Giant Lord, whom I am convinced got nerfed on account of not one shotting me anymore with significantly less armor
Throne twins. This fight was interesting to solo without a shield but tedious. Lots of circling and waiting for the right opportunity.
I one shot the final boss but it wasn't with punches because fuck that. They got arrowed to death. Maybe the worst boss in the game.
I actually think Nashandra's a pretty good boss fight... DLC:
Well, this is the safe way, but isn't optimal per se. Being a dodge god is optimal, in terms of defense.
I would agree about the circling aspect though. For bosses, at least.
I've never even tried him. He seemed boring and tedious for basically no reward. I tried the other optional boss but it didn't seem worth the headache, given what you have to go through to even reach it on every single death.
What, really? I thought the optimal way to get through DS1 was "burn shit to the ground"
no the optimal pyromancy is power within which only burns you
i don't want to fight all those guys in that little room
Except against bosses
Then I brought out Flame Whip, and ain't nothing living through that shit. I don't know if there's actually a faster way to kill the Four Kings than with a properly spaced Flame Whip.
I've never actually beaten the dragon shrine boss so I didn't know he didn't give you anything. Which is the "other" optional boss? Old Dragonslayer, Executioner's Chariot, the Royal Rat Authority and Royal Rat Vanguard, Darklurker, Smelter Demon and Vendrick are all pretty optional.
They balance based on feel.
They straight out have said they don't pay much attention to balance on such an individual level.
They balance it based on being able to rise above and defeat what killed you and the level of satisfaction you gain from that. They try to have multiple ways to do it, but they aren't particularly interested in what those methods are other than in a general way.
They don't design each encounter so that it adheres to the current accepted standards of modern action game design. In that sense they aren't paying much attention to what their customers "like" at all. Because they don't want you to like it the first time you meet it. They want you to die.
They want you to die and then think about what just happened.
Not using the methods you used in every other action game, not using "currently accepted standards of modern action game design", but how it works in this game in front of you. They want you to learn how it works, figure out, from amongst the many methods available, which one is best for you, and then have you take that plan, that new idea, and make it work with a responsive action system.
Then when you win, you won because you rose above. You waded through hell and you put your hands around the Devils scrawny neck and you throttled him until it was over. Then you look around and you go "wow, I died so much to this fucker but now he's mine".
And then you are supposed to walk out of hell with your head held high, without looking back, ready for the next adversary.
This is definitely not going to please everybody because a lot of people, more or less, rip apart an encounter after they beat it and go "man that sucked because x y z" and completely forget that the point is you beat it you are supposed to be happy.
But they can't be happy because they are far too busy being negative about the past.
If you look back after beating something in this game you've stepped straight out of the experience they designed.
It wont hold up to that scrutiny because they don't design the game that way.
Their tool box of possibilities for difficulty have no limitations. There's no technique that is off limits mechanically based on any kind of ideal.
You don't have to like that. But you do need to come to terms with the fact that when it comes to making their games they aren't running off the same rule book of expectations that we are using when we decide whether or not we want to buy them.
Otherwise you are going to continually expect them to adhere to a rule book they clearly and explicitly have said they don't read.
Now what does all that mean for pulling? It means pulling is one option out of many. If you want to try a different way go ahead. It is entirely possible to never pull any enemy in both games with a ranged weapon and beat it.
I did it.
It took time and effort to learn but I did it. I died more than I would normally. But you know what? You know what I gained? I gained the ability to play these games however the hell I wanted. I had a problem, I had an adversary, I looked at my options (self restricted), I looked at the mechanics as they worked in this game (not how I thought they should work), I came up with a plan, I put the time and effort in to apply and master the application of my plan, I beat the enemy to death with my fists and I walked away from there with my head held high.
That is their design and it works.
So if you hate playing a certain way stop playing it that way.
Final fight of the night was an invader just before I was going to Majula. Dual wielding greatswords. I dodged out of his first hit which probably would've killed me, I'm not running a pvp build for lots of health, and caught him in enough raw damage from the sun sword to off him. Felt good man.
Favorite fight of the night though was when me and a guy, after a solid 3 minutes of back and forth, killed each other at exactly the same time. I hope they found it as awesome as I did.
No real bullshitty builds or anything, that it noticed. Fought against someone using a lot of magic and destroyed em both times. All my losses were to melee, primarily, but nothing specific stood out as being impossible to win against.
We were both rolling and rolling and rolling. I was slowly chipping her roly poly butt down in between her swings and then when we were both on low health she did the first hit of the r2.
She'd done that a lot.
I knew what I was going up against.
I moved in to punish.
She did the delayed second hit.
She'd never done that.
I wanted to applaud.
And I would dodge it every single time
But he just kept doing it
It was, needless to say, not a battle I lost.
You referring to the Chariot, there?
Also yeah, I never bothered with the Ancient Dragon. That boss is bullshit on a stick.
Fucker one shots you with pretty much all his attacks. Fuck that.
I don't do fights that have no margin for error.
I put my summon sign down and got brought in some ten times to help others with him, and never once survived to see that fucker take any real damage.
Once, me and another phantom were doing some emote while the host ran in, and by the time we got in the boss was shooting fire at the fog wall land we died immediately.
There's a clear line between challenging and straight-up unfair, and Dark Souls 1 pretty consistently stayed the former. DS2 mostly does as well, but it dips a little too close to the latter sometimes.
It's not that I can't get good at it, I just don't like doing it enough to want to get good. I am just incapable of enjoying competitive play for more than very brief stints, if at all. Even with games I really liked, like Smash Bros, I just can't play against o theirs for long before it just stops being fun and I get too frustrated to continue. Like, to the point where even if I'm winning I'm not having fun because of how stressful and frustrating it is for me.
It's especially annoying for me when it can just suddenly happen while I'm in the middle of doing something else.
My biggest complaint about Dark Souls 1 and 2 is the requirement to have PVP turned on in order to do COOP.
Except 2 actually made it worse by allowing you to get invaded whether or not you're eligible to summon, which is kind of horseshit.
I end up dead, walk back to the boss, see like a half dozen invasion/dragon signs along the way but can't find a single phantom marker unless I spent another effigy or help someone else kill a boss? Bleugh.
At least getting summoned is stupidly easy now. At least, until NG+. :P
He's one of the only bosses in either game I never really feel any desire to fight.
He's just chillin.
I'm cool with that.
In fact, not including the AD's, only one of them is even at all a challenge to obtain, one is a little effort but still easy, and two are effortless once you know how to get to them.
The dudes with the giant maces are fucking satan. They never stop swinging.
Rest of the dudes are easy, long as you got decent ranged and can pick off extra dudes until you can 1v1.
I decided to get the very first character I created ready to start the DLC, which involved getting the King's shield, the dragon chime and sunlight spear. I spent so long fighting the dragon, vendrick, and the darkstalker and grinding sunlight medals against the throners and nashandra that I didn't really feel like playing any more dark souls when the DLC finally unlocked. I will give it another shot this weekend though.
\o/
I've never managed to get the sun sword because I just think "Once I get past this boss I can x for my build" and then I steam roll the next six or seven bosses and I'm near the end of the game and I suddenly realise "Wait..."
I was clubbing it for the longest time, but the sun sword has A scaling for Strength AND Dex, which is really hard to top.
Also I finally swapped out of the elite knight armor and am using the Throne Watcher set.
It's pretty nice!
I was talking about this in the other dark souls thread, but I'm kind of disappointed in the sun sword
Even with 40 Str and Dex, the damage is pretty low. It's a really good straight sword, but straight swords kind of suck by themselves, I'm discovering. Great animations but terrible damage, especially since strike damage is better against any enemy wearing armour (and lots that aren't!). I switched to strength and have been using a mastodon great sword/butcher knife one handed, and they're doing loads more damage. Instead of taking five or six hits to kill a mob, it takes two or three.
At first I thought low damage wouldn't bother me, but it makes bosses take a really long time.
The mace guys are remarkably easy using the twin dragon shield and anything that attacks fast. It seems stupid, but moving up right in front of them reduces the damage a ton, takes virtually no stamina to block. As long as you're not trying to beat 'em up with a greatsword or something you can rip 'em up pretty easily.
There is nothing satisfying about killing either of them; in both cases it feels like you are tricking and/or brute-forcing the system, and nothing else
That said, the Ancient Dragon can be locked down into a predictable, almost inescapable pattern, so it's at least less frustrating than the Wyvern
Re: encounter design, it's not a question of balance, it's a question of incentives. It is very true that you can attack an encounter many different ways, and if you find the conservative approach boring, you should try a different one.
It took me a long time to learn that in Dark Souls 1, but it only became an option when I was good enough at the game.
The conservative approach is not just one among many. It is the default, the most common, the most effective for the least effort. Running into a room and fighting four tough mobs at a time is more exciting, but you'll also die ten times more often. This teaches players that it isn't a good idea. For that approach to work, you need to be really good, which means you've already played the game a bunch and have probably experienced a conservative approach.
The ability to approach it differently doesn't change what the encounter design incentivizes, teaches, and rewards. Players gravitate toward the things that are effective. It isn't fun to spend an hour shooting that dragon to death in Demon Souls, but it also isn't fun dying to it repeatedly for an hour or more! Success is, for most players, the main goal. Succeeding through tedium versus repeatedly failing with an aggressive approach is a constant choice in Souls games, and the game is so punishing that success by any means is very desirable.
And conservative is plenty of fun - the tension, the surprise, the careful engagement of unknown dangers. It's when that tedious but clearly effective choice appears, as an alternative to hurling yourself against the encounter and dying until the enemies stop spawning. Look at how many people advise that you need a ranged option, how they talk about tackling a room by pulling enemies, how most players gravitate to shields how messages always tell you where to stand so you can shoot tough enemies safely, etc. The game tacitly encourages that kind of play by rewarding it.
Tedium just shouldn't be rewarded, IMO. That choice shouldn't exist. It really comes down to poor AI. Enemies shouldn't stand there dumbly while you whittle them away, they should notice when their buddy beside them gets shot in the face, and maybe the dragon should take notice of the guy who's been shooting him for twenty minutes.
I noticed a big improvement along these lines from 1 to 2, so hopefully it will continue.
behind some statues on the cliff wall