Quick question for a darklight build: what's the radius of the initial hit of something like FotH? Is it actually just one enemy? I ask because it seems like the weapon strongly encourages you to stand right next to your opponent in order to not waste the other hit of the skill, aside from the arcs from Fissure.
Yeah, seems like all the gems that deal damage get a boost from the appropriate +element stat. Mirinae being holy, hitting like a truck, a guaranteed hit on a random nearby target every 15s (which is a god send for a Condemn build on single target RG fights) and condemn having such a good proc rate, is why all endgame condemn builds are pretty much pigeonholed into something that works with holy damage. Fire chains, reflect, electrify, exploding lunatics and stupid mob scaling, is why unleash edges out vacuum (vacuum with strongarms can do more damage, but at breaking point, it'll get you killed in incredibly stupid ways).
I don't know if that'a good thing or a bad thing. I have a feeling that Mirinae would be a required gem for more builds, if the element scaling wasn't there. Hell, despite having bad synergy with some build gearing choices, it still ends up being in the top three for some because it hits so fucking hard. I think I'd rather have Blizz fix the coefficients, so that the gem procs weren't absolute shit for certain skills. Then fix some of the more static ones to better compete because of them do start to drop off.
Ice climbers literally say "Gain immunity to Freeze and Immobilize effects," while Champion says "Explode with the power of your order, increasing your damage by 35% and increasing your Wrath regeneration by 5 for 20 seconds." I thought Wrath of the Berserker said in the tooltip it made you immune to CC and was going to compare that wording to climbers just to see, but guess that won't work. I'm pretty sure the way they work, despite tooltip wording and lack of transparency like other places in the game, is Ice Climbers negate both the CC and the damage but skills like WotB and Champ only negate the CC not the damage the CC does when you test them out.
Ice Climbers doesn't prevent any damage. It only prevents the root/CC from affecting you. Jailer, Frozen, etc. all still do damage to you. The additional damage mitigation against cold affix doesn't do much of anything given you will want to avoid pretty much all of the cold skills and you aren't going to be sitting in them anyway, because they do way too much damage.
Huh, I thought climbers negated the damage too, that was like their thing to warrant the drop rate and be different from WotB, Champ, etc. That means they're like, actually useless not just overall useless...
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darklite_xI'm not an r-tard...Registered Userregular
Guys! I was getting rushed to 70 HC and died at 63. Woops.
Steam ID: darklite_x Xbox Gamertag: Darklite 37 PSN:Rage_Kage_37 Battle.Net:darklite#2197
Ice climbers literally say "Gain immunity to Freeze and Immobilize effects," while Champion says "Explode with the power of your order, increasing your damage by 35% and increasing your Wrath regeneration by 5 for 20 seconds." I thought Wrath of the Berserker said in the tooltip it made you immune to CC and was going to compare that wording to climbers just to see, but guess that won't work. I'm pretty sure the way they work, despite tooltip wording and lack of transparency like other places in the game, is Ice Climbers negate both the CC and the damage but skills like WotB and Champ only negate the CC not the damage the CC does when you test them out.
Ice Climbers doesn't prevent any damage. It only prevents the root/CC from affecting you. Jailer, Frozen, etc. all still do damage to you. The additional damage mitigation against cold affix doesn't do much of anything given you will want to avoid pretty much all of the cold skills and you aren't going to be sitting in them anyway, because they do way too much damage.
Huh, I thought climbers negated the damage too, that was like their thing to warrant the drop rate and be different from WotB, Champ, etc. That means they're like, actually useless not just overall useless...
Iirc the WotB and AkkChamp abilities don't make you immune during their durations but they will break any crowd control effect when you activate them.
Next time the game is playable for me, I'll try and keep an eye on jailer hits, to see if that does any damage. I'm pretty sure that with champion, that jailer can't do any damage, while it's active. Same principle for vortex's bullshit paper-cut mechanic. Frozen does damage, but that's because it's bullshit paper-cut mechanic seems to be coded differently. Seems to be s similar principle with iron skin.
Also worth noting, that all the CC immunities can be activated, while under the effects of CC to end them early.
almost up to 6/6 marauder's, just need to grab some boots
also need to find a decent T&T to use; I could reroll the int one I got a while back, but its affixes wouldn't be so great if I have to reroll primary stat
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Next time the game is playable for me, I'll try and keep an eye on jailer hits, to see if that does any damage. I'm pretty sure that with champion, that jailer can't do any damage, while it's active. Same principle for vortex's bullshit paper-cut mechanic. Frozen does damage, but that's because it's bullshit paper-cut mechanic seems to be coded differently. Seems to be s similar principle with iron skin.
Vortex does damage too? Makes sense, I didn't know teleport did damage until I went up to grift 33-34 and the fucking thing sliced off ~60% of my health.
Ice climbers literally say "Gain immunity to Freeze and Immobilize effects," while Champion says "Explode with the power of your order, increasing your damage by 35% and increasing your Wrath regeneration by 5 for 20 seconds." I thought Wrath of the Berserker said in the tooltip it made you immune to CC and was going to compare that wording to climbers just to see, but guess that won't work. I'm pretty sure the way they work, despite tooltip wording and lack of transparency like other places in the game, is Ice Climbers negate both the CC and the damage but skills like WotB and Champ only negate the CC not the damage the CC does when you test them out.
Ice Climbers doesn't prevent any damage. It only prevents the root/CC from affecting you. Jailer, Frozen, etc. all still do damage to you. The additional damage mitigation against cold affix doesn't do much of anything given you will want to avoid pretty much all of the cold skills and you aren't going to be sitting in them anyway, because they do way too much damage.
Huh, I thought climbers negated the damage too, that was like their thing to warrant the drop rate and be different from WotB, Champ, etc. That means they're like, actually useless not just overall useless...
Iirc the WotB and AkkChamp abilities don't make you immune during their durations but they will break any crowd control effect when you activate them.
Opposite for Champ at least. While Champ is up you're immune to CC and while Iron Skin is up you're immune to CC. You can also cast them while CC'd to break out of it. There's plenty of times where I'm not paying much attention to the game while farming T6 and only notice I'm CC'd so that reminds me to cast Champ again.
In a patch or hotfix a while back they did change how the pony works. Steed Charge used to break CC, but since Iron Skin and Champion both already do that, they changed it to make you CC immune as long as you're riding your pony rather than let you use it to break out.
Like everything else in this game that's hidden BS all of those are things in patch notes and not actually in any of the tooltips so while it may not be hard it's annoying as hell to keep track of all the minor changes like that.
In a patch or hotfix a while back they did change how the pony works. Steed Charge used to break CC, but since Iron Skin and Champion both already do that, they changed it to make you CC immune as long as you're riding your pony rather than let you use it to break out.
You sure about that? Fairly sure I used pony to break jailer while levling yesterday.
In a patch or hotfix a while back they did change how the pony works. Steed Charge used to break CC, but since Iron Skin and Champion both already do that, they changed it to make you CC immune as long as you're riding your pony rather than let you use it to break out.
You sure about that? Fairly sure I used pony to break jailer while levling yesterday.
I think it used to also break stun/frozen, and it definitely doesn't any more. They changed it back when they reduced its cooldown - it used to be 30s or something like that.
In a patch or hotfix a while back they did change how the pony works. Steed Charge used to break CC, but since Iron Skin and Champion both already do that, they changed it to make you CC immune as long as you're riding your pony rather than let you use it to break out.
You sure about that? Fairly sure I used pony to break jailer while levling yesterday.
Positive they changed it, but not positive it was a universal CC change; It may still break some CC and not others. I'll edit in the patch note if I can find it.
I tried it last night and couldn't figure out how to use it effectively with no free active skill
I've seen @HooverFan running it in groups. As far as I can tell from the build and seeing him, you shouldn't really be spending hatred on anything but dropping Sentries. Bombadier's Rucksack allows you to have up to 4 running at once, there's some CDR to chop the cooldown on Sentry down a little, the Marauder's 6 piece bonus allows them to fire hatred spenders you have equipped, and Tasker and Theo have them firing really fast. Basically all you have to do is stay out of the way with Tumble and pop Companion whenever you want a damage boost.
In my experience it's like watching some kind of bizarre laser light show that also involves ice explosions, while Hoover chills in the back.
Edit: Whoops, looks like that one runs Smoke Screen. Well, Hoover ran Tumble as far as I could see. Principle's the same regardless.
I tried it last night and couldn't figure out how to use it effectively with no free active skill
Play tower defense. You don't attack, you let your turrets attack for you since they now fire all your equipped skills that would cost you hatred to fire. That's the basics of it but all you need to run it well enough.
There's attack speed break points and min-maxing elements if you want to get even more fancy though to maximize your damage and efficiency.
So close to Perma-AC I can taste it. Just need Kadala to stop dumping terrible chests.
Perma-AC is worth everything you have to sacrifice to achieve. I tried playing with ~55% CDR and I would routinely die during the ~1 second of AC down time, especially during greater rifts. For my seasonal crusader, I have 57.3% CDR and I can't go back to having less. I have an 89% Leoric's Crown, 8% on shoulders, 6% on gloves, 9% on weapon, 7% on 1 ring, 8% on shield, 8% on belt and 10% from paragon points. If I ever find a second Unity I'm expecting to have to roll the 4th affix for a socket, which means I'll lose 7% CDR and be back under the magic number, which means back to farming a RoRG with native socket or CDR. Wheeee.
Thanks, all, that makes sense. Looks like it's way more dependant on gear than some of the other builds I've been using. I dropped Elemental Arrow and put an active skill in there instead and it worked ok.
You're level 63 with full marauder's? If you don't have the full marauder's set, you shouldn't be following a guide designed specifically for that gear. M6 = Marauder's 6-set bonus (5 pieces plus RoRG).
Smoogy on
Smoogy-1689
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that build really needs a kridershot, to turn elemental arrow into your generator. I've been running basically that, but kind of a ghetto version that doesn't have 6p marauders or a T&T, so it relies more on +cold damage.
I don't really see the point of running multishot either; cluster will take all the hatred you can throw at it. The emphasis on rockets also seems a little weird (rather have custom engineering and polar sentry myself), but I guess that's up to you.
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Thanks, all, that makes sense. Looks like it's way more dependant on gear than some of the other builds I've been using. I dropped Elemental Arrow and put an active skill in there instead and it worked ok.
Play with passives & runes as you see fit, but the idea is to unload Cluster Arrow into the enemy champions as many times as you can, hit Prep and do it again.
You guys (@Eat it you Nasty Pig) don't seem to understand what M6 builds do. You don't spend hatred on anything but laying Sentries. Then your Sentries fire your active hatred spenders...hence why you have Elemental Arrow, Cluster Arrow, and Multishot there. You're not actively shooting your hatred spenders with your bow.
Smoogy on
Smoogy-1689
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do you guys find it worthwhile to craft a hellfire amulet(s), or would you rather just use a good cold/arcane immunity one? Trying to decide whether its worth saving up the gold for the recipe.
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
It's not the gold that's in any way prohibitive for Hellfire Ammy. It's the keys/organs and then rolling something with a decent passive, crit dmg, crit chance, socket. I don't see how anything can beat a good hellfire, but I haven't been crazy enough to farm one yet.
Smoogy-1689
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The reason you have two or three spenders with M6 is because depending on your attack speed (and having a T&T), your turrets can fire more shots of certain abilities than others and wont mistakenly shoot a regular sentry bolt attack, AFAIK. There's a lot of research and math and charts out there already on the subject.
You guys (@Eat it you Nasty Pig) don't seem to understand what M6 builds do. You don't spend hatred on anything but laying Sentries. Then your Sentries fire your active hatred spenders...hence why you have Elemental Arrow, Cluster Arrow, and Multishot there. You're not actively shooting your hatred spenders with your bow.
OH OH OH
NOW I see. I didn't get that the Sentries shoot whatever you have set. NOW that makes sense. Thanks!
You're level 63 with full marauder's? If you don't have the full marauder's set, you shouldn't be following a guide designed specifically for that gear. M6 = Marauder's 6-set bonus (5 pieces plus RoRG).
Like I said, it works just fine for levelling by adding in a regular old active shot.
Haha, ok good! I use Chakram/Cluster Arrow since I have the quiver that makes Chakram generate hatred instead of cost hatred. Trying to get M6 myself to lay sentries all day, e'ry day.
Smoogy-1689
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Haha, ok good! I use Chakram/Cluster Arrow since I have the quiver that makes Chakram generate hatred instead of cost hatred. Trying to get M6 myself to lay sentries all day, e'ry day.
I have one bracer that adds whatever gold amout I pick up to my armour and something else that makes me immune to Arcane and actually regenerates health if I stand on those spinny purple things. So elite mobs are pretty much no problem.
You're talking about Countess Julia's Cameo, which is a great amulet if you can get one at max level with the right stats. Probably the top-end amulet, so always be on the lookout for a lvl 70 version once you get there. Arcane is one of the worst elements because of Jailer, which can one shot players at some of the extreme top levels.
Just know that none of the items you gather up to 70 will really be used once you get there, since the lvl 70 versions will have drastically superior stats on them. So get to 70 and then item hunt for realz!
Smoogy-1689
3DS Friend Code: 1821-8991-4141
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You guys (@Eat it you Nasty Pig) don't seem to understand what M6 builds do. You don't spend hatred on anything but laying Sentries. Then your Sentries fire your active hatred spenders...hence why you have Elemental Arrow, Cluster Arrow, and Multishot there. You're not actively shooting your hatred spenders with your bow.
That is, unless you're running Lightning M6 with Meticulous Bolts. In which case you put down your Sentries but then also spam Elemental Arrow - Ball Lightning. Mainly to proc Helltrapper and the Night Stalker passive, but also because they do a lot of damage on their own.
Between Preparation - Punishment and Companion, that should give you enough Hatred to continually spam it. You essentially get perma-Smoke Screen with this build too, because of Night Stalker. Ball Lightning has a ridiculous proc rate, so you'll never really run out of Discipline. Cluster Arrow can be replaced by Marked for Death or something else, if you want.
But in all other cases, yeah, you just plop your Sentries down and dance in the back while they do all the work.
You're talking about Countess Julia's Cameo, which is a great amulet if you can get one at max level with the right stats. Probably the top-end amulet, so always be on the lookout for a lvl 70 version once you get there. Arcane is one of the worst elements because of Jailer, which can one shot players at some of the extreme top levels.
Just know that none of the items you gather up to 70 will really be used once you get there, since the lvl 70 versions will have drastically superior stats on them. So get to 70 and then item hunt for realz!
Some stuff I'll still use tho. That cameo for instance and the Tall Man's Finger I found at level 53 stayed with me until I got the level 70 version. Man, some of the specials are just too good to dump. I really miss dumoping something I got at level 13 that make all my toads heat seeking instead of random. That was awesome but the stats REALLY sucked on it eventually.
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I don't know if that'a good thing or a bad thing. I have a feeling that Mirinae would be a required gem for more builds, if the element scaling wasn't there. Hell, despite having bad synergy with some build gearing choices, it still ends up being in the top three for some because it hits so fucking hard. I think I'd rather have Blizz fix the coefficients, so that the gem procs weren't absolute shit for certain skills. Then fix some of the more static ones to better compete because of them do start to drop off.
Also worth noting, that all the CC immunities can be activated, while under the effects of CC to end them early.
also need to find a decent T&T to use; I could reroll the int one I got a while back, but its affixes wouldn't be so great if I have to reroll primary stat
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
In a patch or hotfix a while back they did change how the pony works. Steed Charge used to break CC, but since Iron Skin and Champion both already do that, they changed it to make you CC immune as long as you're riding your pony rather than let you use it to break out.
Like everything else in this game that's hidden BS all of those are things in patch notes and not actually in any of the tooltips so while it may not be hard it's annoying as hell to keep track of all the minor changes like that.
I think it used to also break stun/frozen, and it definitely doesn't any more. They changed it back when they reduced its cooldown - it used to be 30s or something like that.
Its not really noticeable unless it is a harder difficulty relative to your character.
Found it.
also iirc ice climbers blocks the damage from jailer but i could be wrong
havent worn ice climbers in forever
julias for everyone
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Battle.net
http://www.diablofans.com/builds/90-ultimate-end-game-m6-detailed-guide-update-25-09
I tried it last night and couldn't figure out how to use it effectively with no free active skill
I've seen @HooverFan running it in groups. As far as I can tell from the build and seeing him, you shouldn't really be spending hatred on anything but dropping Sentries. Bombadier's Rucksack allows you to have up to 4 running at once, there's some CDR to chop the cooldown on Sentry down a little, the Marauder's 6 piece bonus allows them to fire hatred spenders you have equipped, and Tasker and Theo have them firing really fast. Basically all you have to do is stay out of the way with Tumble and pop Companion whenever you want a damage boost.
In my experience it's like watching some kind of bizarre laser light show that also involves ice explosions, while Hoover chills in the back.
Edit: Whoops, looks like that one runs Smoke Screen. Well, Hoover ran Tumble as far as I could see. Principle's the same regardless.
Battle.net
There's attack speed break points and min-maxing elements if you want to get even more fancy though to maximize your damage and efficiency.
This is really cool damage calculator
Perma-AC is worth everything you have to sacrifice to achieve. I tried playing with ~55% CDR and I would routinely die during the ~1 second of AC down time, especially during greater rifts. For my seasonal crusader, I have 57.3% CDR and I can't go back to having less. I have an 89% Leoric's Crown, 8% on shoulders, 6% on gloves, 9% on weapon, 7% on 1 ring, 8% on shield, 8% on belt and 10% from paragon points. If I ever find a second Unity I'm expecting to have to roll the 4th affix for a socket, which means I'll lose 7% CDR and be back under the magic number, which means back to farming a RoRG with native socket or CDR. Wheeee.
It's on PS4 and it's just whatever the last thing dropped that had green arrows. I haven't worked on the equipment at all yet; he's just lvl 63.
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I don't really see the point of running multishot either; cluster will take all the hatred you can throw at it. The emphasis on rockets also seems a little weird (rather have custom engineering and polar sentry myself), but I guess that's up to you.
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
That's why I was asking. That spec is 100% required to have the gear for it.
If you're looking for a spec to use in the meantime, this is a pretty good one: us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/demon-hunter#bPdVSO!bYeS!YcbZcY
Play with passives & runes as you see fit, but the idea is to unload Cluster Arrow into the enemy champions as many times as you can, hit Prep and do it again.
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PAD ID: 376,540,262
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
3DS Friend Code: 1821-8991-4141
PAD ID: 376,540,262
This should explain things better than I can
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OH OH OH
NOW I see. I didn't get that the Sentries shoot whatever you have set. NOW that makes sense. Thanks!
Like I said, it works just fine for levelling by adding in a regular old active shot.
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PAD ID: 376,540,262
I have one bracer that adds whatever gold amout I pick up to my armour and something else that makes me immune to Arcane and actually regenerates health if I stand on those spinny purple things. So elite mobs are pretty much no problem.
Want that quiver tho.
It should give you a good idea of what to look out for. I have a Helltrapper in my stash, but I'm waiting on a gift to drop so that I can use it.
Just know that none of the items you gather up to 70 will really be used once you get there, since the lvl 70 versions will have drastically superior stats on them. So get to 70 and then item hunt for realz!
3DS Friend Code: 1821-8991-4141
PAD ID: 376,540,262
That is, unless you're running Lightning M6 with Meticulous Bolts. In which case you put down your Sentries but then also spam Elemental Arrow - Ball Lightning. Mainly to proc Helltrapper and the Night Stalker passive, but also because they do a lot of damage on their own.
Between Preparation - Punishment and Companion, that should give you enough Hatred to continually spam it. You essentially get perma-Smoke Screen with this build too, because of Night Stalker. Ball Lightning has a ridiculous proc rate, so you'll never really run out of Discipline. Cluster Arrow can be replaced by Marked for Death or something else, if you want.
But in all other cases, yeah, you just plop your Sentries down and dance in the back while they do all the work.
Battle.net Tag: Dibby#1582
Some stuff I'll still use tho. That cameo for instance and the Tall Man's Finger I found at level 53 stayed with me until I got the level 70 version. Man, some of the specials are just too good to dump. I really miss dumoping something I got at level 13 that make all my toads heat seeking instead of random. That was awesome but the stats REALLY sucked on it eventually.