McConnell made it clear he’ll only go so far to please the tea party activists who want big fights with Obama: “There will be no government shutdown, no default on the national debt.” He also noted that “when the American people chose divided government, I don’t think it means they don’t want us to do anything.”
But he also declared that the Senate won’t be shy about sending Obama bills he’s sure to veto.
“We’re going to pass legislation, some of which he may not like, but we’re going to function,” McConnell said.
Translation: Republicans are going to put forward legislation and scream obstruction when (let's be honest, if) Dems/Obama don't accept it.
At which point the narrative will shift from Democrats refusing to compromise with the minority party who should get the exact legislation they want to the Dems refusing to compromise with the majority who should get the exact legislation they want.
here's the thing
whenever i talk to my conservative friends about how it's nonsense that they get to complain about anything when their party has spent four years actively stopping the government from doing anything useful
they say they're happy the government isn't doing anything useful because government is bad
but now they are going to be complaining that obama is stopping them from doing anything useful
i just
i can't
i can't do it
To be fair, Democrats have spent a while going "Elections have consequences, the majority party should get to enact its agenda," and they're going to have to reverse themselves on that, now. (Or try and fudge the line with talk of gerrymandering and voter IDs and low turnout and we should really be listening to the non-voting, silent majority...)
2012 electorate will be having its say when Obama vetoes all of the things.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
McConnell made it clear he’ll only go so far to please the tea party activists who want big fights with Obama: “There will be no government shutdown, no default on the national debt.” He also noted that “when the American people chose divided government, I don’t think it means they don’t want us to do anything.”
But he also declared that the Senate won’t be shy about sending Obama bills he’s sure to veto.
“We’re going to pass legislation, some of which he may not like, but we’re going to function,” McConnell said.
Translation: Republicans are going to put forward legislation and scream obstruction when (let's be honest, if) Dems/Obama don't accept it.
At which point the narrative will shift from Democrats refusing to compromise with the minority party who should get the exact legislation they want to the Dems refusing to compromise with the majority who should get the exact legislation they want.
here's the thing
whenever i talk to my conservative friends about how it's nonsense that they get to complain about anything when their party has spent four years actively stopping the government from doing anything useful
they say they're happy the government isn't doing anything useful because government is bad
but now they are going to be complaining that obama is stopping them from doing anything useful
i just
i can't
i can't do it
To be fair, Democrats have spent a while going "Elections have consequences, the majority party should get to enact its agenda," and they're going to have to reverse themselves on that, now. (Or try and fudge the line with talk of gerrymandering and voter IDs and low turnout and we should really be listening to the non-voting, silent majority...)
fair point
but i don't really have a problem with Congress actually doing its job and then the President vetoing it
considering that's one of the few actual balancing powers the Executive actually has
which is different from the minority party in Congress stymying any attempt at productive legislation while the country burns
McConnell made it clear he’ll only go so far to please the tea party activists who want big fights with Obama: “There will be no government shutdown, no default on the national debt.” He also noted that “when the American people chose divided government, I don’t think it means they don’t want us to do anything.”
But he also declared that the Senate won’t be shy about sending Obama bills he’s sure to veto.
“We’re going to pass legislation, some of which he may not like, but we’re going to function,” McConnell said.
Translation: Republicans are going to put forward legislation and scream obstruction when (let's be honest, if) Dems/Obama don't accept it.
At which point the narrative will shift from Democrats refusing to compromise with the minority party who should get the exact legislation they want to the Dems refusing to compromise with the majority who should get the exact legislation they want.
here's the thing
whenever i talk to my conservative friends about how it's nonsense that they get to complain about anything when their party has spent four years actively stopping the government from doing anything useful
they say they're happy the government isn't doing anything useful because government is bad
but now they are going to be complaining that obama is stopping them from doing anything useful
i just
i can't
i can't do it
To be fair, Democrats have spent a while going "Elections have consequences, the majority party should get to enact its agenda," and they're going to have to reverse themselves on that, now. (Or try and fudge the line with talk of gerrymandering and voter IDs and low turnout and we should really be listening to the non-voting, silent majority...)
The day the other party agrees to that I'm fine with the Democrats making reasonable concessions.
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ChanusHarbinger of the Spicy Rooster ApocalypseThe Flames of a Thousand Collapsed StarsRegistered Userregular
McConnell made it clear he’ll only go so far to please the tea party activists who want big fights with Obama: “There will be no government shutdown, no default on the national debt.” He also noted that “when the American people chose divided government, I don’t think it means they don’t want us to do anything.”
But he also declared that the Senate won’t be shy about sending Obama bills he’s sure to veto.
“We’re going to pass legislation, some of which he may not like, but we’re going to function,” McConnell said.
Translation: Republicans are going to put forward legislation and scream obstruction when (let's be honest, if) Dems/Obama don't accept it.
At which point the narrative will shift from Democrats refusing to compromise with the minority party who should get the exact legislation they want to the Dems refusing to compromise with the majority who should get the exact legislation they want.
here's the thing
whenever i talk to my conservative friends about how it's nonsense that they get to complain about anything when their party has spent four years actively stopping the government from doing anything useful
they say they're happy the government isn't doing anything useful because government is bad
but now they are going to be complaining that obama is stopping them from doing anything useful
i just
i can't
i can't do it
To be fair, Democrats have spent a while going "Elections have consequences, the majority party should get to enact its agenda," and they're going to have to reverse themselves on that, now. (Or try and fudge the line with talk of gerrymandering and voter IDs and low turnout and we should really be listening to the non-voting, silent majority...)
The day the other party agrees to that I'm fine with the Democrats making reasonable concessions.
Not me.
The government working again would be a horrible message to send.
Chris Cristie and Reince Priebus hitting the same compromise notes. The message has gone out to the GOP leadership.
On NBC’s “Today” show on Wednesday, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, who’s eyeing Obama’s job, said McConnell and House Speaker John Boehner should “sit down and decide what their priorities are and then sit down with the president. People want to get things done.”
And Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus said on MSNBC on Wednesday that his party should find “real, achievable goals that are simple, that we can define for the American people … work with the president, get those things done, repeat and repeat and repeat.”
Chris Cristie and Reince Priebus hitting the same compromise notes. The message has gone out to the GOP leadership.
On NBC’s “Today” show on Wednesday, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, who’s eyeing Obama’s job, said McConnell and House Speaker John Boehner should “sit down and decide what their priorities are and then sit down with the president. People want to get things done.”
And Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus said on MSNBC on Wednesday that his party should find “real, achievable goals that are simple, that we can define for the American people … work with the president, get those things done, repeat and repeat and repeat.”
Doubt Cruz and his cohorts are on board with this message. So if McConnell is willing to pass things with the say 15 most conservative Dems he can go ahead.
Self-righteousness is incompatible with coalition building.
Chris Cristie and Reince Priebus hitting the same compromise notes. The message has gone out to the GOP leadership.
On NBC’s “Today” show on Wednesday, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, who’s eyeing Obama’s job, said McConnell and House Speaker John Boehner should “sit down and decide what their priorities are and then sit down with the president. People want to get things done.”
And Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus said on MSNBC on Wednesday that his party should find “real, achievable goals that are simple, that we can define for the American people … work with the president, get those things done, repeat and repeat and repeat.”
what message
"do some spin?"
I was listening in on McConnel's victory speech this morning (which was mostly mumbling and a few awkwardly delivered jokes..seriously who the fuck votes for this guy?) and he was saying the same thing. And he went on for a bit about it being his plan to fix the dysfunctional senate and make senators start working again, no more half work weeks and so on. Which I'm totally all for if he can actually do it. So yeah, at least in the establishment wing, there is a definite sense they all agreed to go with a soft message.
It's great comedy to watch them start talking about bipartisanship now though...it's too bad the democrats aren't going to give them the same medicine they gave the rest of us for 6 years.
What are the odd the tea partiers continue to shit on their own party now that it controls both houses?
Depends on what they bring up. If Boehner and McConnell come out of the gate with Tax Cuts and Obamacare repeals the Tea Party will go with it, but if they do anything that even resembles immigration reform I think things will get a little feisty.
McConnell made it clear he’ll only go so far to please the tea party activists who want big fights with Obama: “There will be no government shutdown, no default on the national debt.” He also noted that “when the American people chose divided government, I don’t think it means they don’t want us to do anything.”
But he also declared that the Senate won’t be shy about sending Obama bills he’s sure to veto.
“We’re going to pass legislation, some of which he may not like, but we’re going to function,” McConnell said.
Translation: Republicans are going to put forward legislation and scream obstruction when (let's be honest, if) Dems/Obama don't accept it.
At which point the narrative will shift from Democrats refusing to compromise with the minority party who should get the exact legislation they want to the Dems refusing to compromise with the majority who should get the exact legislation they want.
here's the thing
whenever i talk to my conservative friends about how it's nonsense that they get to complain about anything when their party has spent four years actively stopping the government from doing anything useful
they say they're happy the government isn't doing anything useful because government is bad
but now they are going to be complaining that obama is stopping them from doing anything useful
What are the odd the tea partiers continue to shit on their own party now that it controls both houses?
Depends on what they bring up. If Boehner and McConnell come out of the gate with Tax Cuts and Obamacare repeals the Tea Party will go with it, but if they do anything that even resembles immigration reform I think things will get a little feisty.
Curious to see where it goes.
So if they come out the gate doing things they know they can't clear through the execuitive they'll be safe from their own party....so that their party can continue to do nothing.
Chris Cristie and Reince Priebus hitting the same compromise notes. The message has gone out to the GOP leadership.
On NBC’s “Today” show on Wednesday, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, who’s eyeing Obama’s job, said McConnell and House Speaker John Boehner should “sit down and decide what their priorities are and then sit down with the president. People want to get things done.”
And Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus said on MSNBC on Wednesday that his party should find “real, achievable goals that are simple, that we can define for the American people … work with the president, get those things done, repeat and repeat and repeat.”
That's basically a continuation of what they were campaigning on. There was no 'Contract With America' or major issues pushes during the election to claim a mandate on. It was basically just a grab bag of ebola, ISIS, brown people crossing the border (even in State races that have an actual international border, which terrorists have crossed in the past), Obama sucks, and the economy sucks. The only thing they can make a play for on the news is trying to out 'reasonable guy' Obama so that when things go to shit he gets the blame.
I think pretty much the only way McConnell has a chance of reigning the Tea Party in is if he hires Francis Underwood to be House Whip.
McConnell knows how to count and he knows how to run a Chamber. The problem remains that Boehner doesn't know how to do either of those things. Though I am still wondering if there will be another attempt at a palace coup against him in January.
I mean, obviously the people not currently accountable for a part in the legislative process are gonna get on the 'compromise/get things done/etc' train
what precisely actually changed from two weeks ago is hard to say, other than that it'll be easier for congressional republicans to do nothing than it was previously. I mean, they just re-elected the guy who said that his first legislative priority was winning the next presidential election
it was the smallest on the list but
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
I would totally find it believable that they'd actually stop being useless shits and start debating things in good faith just because they could now take credit for it and say "See, it's because we have the majority." when there was nothing stopping them from doing the same thing for the past 4 years.
Which I mean, fine, whatever. If that's what it takes. But it's a shame that they just wasted 4 years because getting all the credit for doing their jobs is more important than actually just doing their job.
I would totally find it believable that they'd actually stop being useless shits and start debating things in good faith just because they could now take credit for it and say "See, it's because we have the majority." when there was nothing stopping them from doing the same thing for the past 4 years.
Which I mean, fine, whatever. If that's what it takes. But it's a shame that they just wasted 4 years because getting all the credit for doing their jobs is more important than actually just doing their job.
But that's not going to happen.
They'll just try to push bills they know will never clear Obama, and they can't override, and then in the 2016 election try cry that it's not their fault, and blame the democrats for obstruction.
It'll be harder to pin that complaint on Hillary, which is why we also will never hear the end of Benghazi for the next two years.
If anyone starts to back track on Electikns Has Consequences fuck em
They're geese
They do. Republicans get to write and pass bills they like.
The president gets to veto bills he doesn't and sign ones he can get on board with.
This is how it's supposed to work.
The problem I foresee is the tendency of people of all walks of life to unabashedly succumb to the fallacy of false equivalence.
Allegedly a voice of reason.
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BigWillieStylesExpert flipper of tablesInside my mind...Registered Userregular
If Reid becomes the minority leader, expect McConnell to take that as a "we won't compromise with you" from the Democrats and nuke most of the filibuster.
Because Reid really went too far with his stance against political minority rights while he helmed the Senate. And he's a terrible person, but that's just a side point.
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If Reid becomes the minority leader, expect McConnell to take that as a "we won't compromise with you" from the Democrats and nuke most of the filibuster.
Because Reid really went too far with his stance against political minority rights while he helmed the Senate. And he's a terrible person, but that's just a side point.
What exactly did Reid do to kill minority rights in the Senate again?
He should have killed the filibuster years ago honestly and he didn't/ He waited 2 damn year to kill it for appointments when the GOP said over and over we'll never let you fill the federal courts.
Reid gave too much to a minority that wanted nothing but to grind the government to a halt.
Go ahead nuke the filibuster and pass all the garbage in the world through the Senate. that just gives Obama perfect political cover to veto all of it. Or your party could behave like people who actually want the country to function and strike some deals. Vetoing bipartisan bills will be much more politically costly for Obama and the Dems
If Reid becomes the minority leader, expect McConnell to take that as a "we won't compromise with you" from the Democrats and nuke most of the filibuster.
Because Reid really went too far with his stance against political minority rights while he helmed the Senate. And he's a terrible person, but that's just a side point.
If Reid becomes the minority leader, expect McConnell to take that as a "we won't compromise with you" from the Democrats and nuke most of the filibuster.
Because Reid really went too far with his stance against political minority rights while he helmed the Senate. And he's a terrible person, but that's just a side point.
What exactly did Reid do to kill minority rights in the Senate again?
He should have killed the filibuster years ago honestly and he didn't/ He waited 2 damn year to kill it for appointments when the GOP said over and over we'll never let you fill the federal courts.
Reid gave too much to a minority that wanted nothing but to grind the government to a halt.
Go ahead nuke the filibuster and pass all the garbage in the world through the Senate. that just gives Obama perfect political cover to veto all of it. Or your party could behave like people who actually want the country to function and strike some deals. Vetoing bipartisan bills will be much more politically costly for Obama and the Dems
He put limitations on amendments. Though mostly in response to amendment proposals becoming endless parliamentary delay tactics in order to eat up the calendar.
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AManFromEarthLet's get to twerk!The King in the SwampRegistered Userregular
If Reid becomes the minority leader, expect McConnell to take that as a "we won't compromise with you" from the Democrats and nuke most of the filibuster.
Because Reid really went too far with his stance against political minority rights while he helmed the Senate. And he's a terrible person, but that's just a side point.
This is categorically ridiculous.
By that same metric if McConnell becomes majority leader it'll prove the republicans aren't serious either as he was far too belligerent about undermining congressional procedure and governance.
His screeds against te president were absolutely beyond the pale.
Or wait that's not how it works.
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BigWillieStylesExpert flipper of tablesInside my mind...Registered Userregular
What exactly did Reid do to kill minority rights in the Senate again?
He should have killed the filibuster years ago honestly and he didn't/ He waited 2 damn year to kill it for appointments when the GOP said over and over we'll never let you fill the federal courts.
Reid gave too much to a minority that wanted nothing but to grind the government to a halt.
Go ahead nuke the filibuster and pass all the garbage in the world through the Senate. that just gives Obama perfect political cover to veto all of it. Or your party could behave like people who actually want the country to function and strike some deals. Vetoing bipartisan bills will be much more politically costly for Obama and the Dems
Among other things, he nuked part of the filibuster and limited the ability for the minority to even offer amendments to bills being debated/considered.
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Should the repubs start being reasonable (proper compromising, no repeated Obamacare repeals etc.) the vast majority of Americans will see "Democrats in the senate = nothing getting done, democrats out of the senate= things get done" and suddenly the GOP has a advantage in 2016. So strategically its a win-win-win for the Repubs (Repubs looks good, they can take credit for the country getting going again, democrats looks bad).
Now I will not be surprised that this is all talk and its business as usual from one end of the GOP to the other, these are all words we have heard before. And I wouldn't be surprised if Cruz the Canadian decides to go on another crusade with the other "true believers".
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BigWillieStylesExpert flipper of tablesInside my mind...Registered Userregular
Should the repubs start being reasonable (proper compromising, no repeated Obamacare repeals etc.) the vast majority of Americans will see "Democrats in the senate = nothing getting done, democrats out of the senate= things get done" and suddenly the GOP has a advantage in 2016. So strategically its a win-win-win for the Repubs (Repubs looks good, they can take credit for the country getting going again, democrats looks bad).
Now I will not be surprised that this is all talk and its business as usual from one end of the GOP to the other, these are all words we have heard before. And I wouldn't be surprised if Cruz the Canadian decides to go on another crusade with the other "true believers".
Cruz is a first-term Senator with little influence in the Senate. He has more clout in the House, honestly. And as long as the Majority Whip does his/her job, it won't matter.
Cruz has no real power in the Senate.
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Just_Bri_ThanksSeething with ragefrom a handbasket.Registered User, ClubPAregular
Among other things, he nuked part of the filibuster and limited the ability for the minority to even offer amendments to bills being debated/considered.
You can only amend bills into the ground and only prevent so many bills from even coming to the floor for debate (never mind a vote) before your opposition begins to doubt your sincerity in your 'participation' in the process.
What exactly did Reid do to kill minority rights in the Senate again?
He should have killed the filibuster years ago honestly and he didn't/ He waited 2 damn year to kill it for appointments when the GOP said over and over we'll never let you fill the federal courts.
Reid gave too much to a minority that wanted nothing but to grind the government to a halt.
Go ahead nuke the filibuster and pass all the garbage in the world through the Senate. that just gives Obama perfect political cover to veto all of it. Or your party could behave like people who actually want the country to function and strike some deals. Vetoing bipartisan bills will be much more politically costly for Obama and the Dems
Among other things, he nuked part of the filibuster and limited the ability for the minority to even offer amendments to bills being debated/considered.
So if the Democrats elect as minority leader someone who so grievously violated minority rights by eliminating the filibuster in some specific cases, the GOP will nuke the filibuster in its entirety, but that's totes not a violation of anything?
To be clear I think the filibuster is awful, regardless of who has the majority, but your train of thought here is laughably partisan.
Posts
2012 electorate will be having its say when Obama vetoes all of the things.
fair point
but i don't really have a problem with Congress actually doing its job and then the President vetoing it
considering that's one of the few actual balancing powers the Executive actually has
which is different from the minority party in Congress stymying any attempt at productive legislation while the country burns
The day the other party agrees to that I'm fine with the Democrats making reasonable concessions.
Not me.
The government working again would be a horrible message to send.
This means, occasionally, trying to craft your bill so it does not get vetoed.
Sending a bill up to the Prez to repeal the ACA as a symbolic thing is ok, whatever.
If they send 50 bills, we'll know what we're dealing with.
It means offer up literally everything we were asking for a year ago so we can complain how it doesn't go far enough.
what message
"do some spin?"
I host a podcast about movies.
Well at least the Republican leadership has appeared to learn from 2012.
Just out of curiosity; in what way do you think they've learned anything?
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I was listening in on McConnel's victory speech this morning (which was mostly mumbling and a few awkwardly delivered jokes..seriously who the fuck votes for this guy?) and he was saying the same thing. And he went on for a bit about it being his plan to fix the dysfunctional senate and make senators start working again, no more half work weeks and so on. Which I'm totally all for if he can actually do it. So yeah, at least in the establishment wing, there is a definite sense they all agreed to go with a soft message.
It's great comedy to watch them start talking about bipartisanship now though...it's too bad the democrats aren't going to give them the same medicine they gave the rest of us for 6 years.
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Depends on what they bring up. If Boehner and McConnell come out of the gate with Tax Cuts and Obamacare repeals the Tea Party will go with it, but if they do anything that even resembles immigration reform I think things will get a little feisty.
Curious to see where it goes.
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Unfriend button those hypocrites.
So if they come out the gate doing things they know they can't clear through the execuitive they'll be safe from their own party....so that their party can continue to do nothing.
Fantastic.
:rotate:
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http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40007802/ns/politics-decision_2010/t/gop-leaders-top-goal-make-obama--term-president/
Well, McConnell will definitely make sure that this is his last term.
That's basically a continuation of what they were campaigning on. There was no 'Contract With America' or major issues pushes during the election to claim a mandate on. It was basically just a grab bag of ebola, ISIS, brown people crossing the border (even in State races that have an actual international border, which terrorists have crossed in the past), Obama sucks, and the economy sucks. The only thing they can make a play for on the news is trying to out 'reasonable guy' Obama so that when things go to shit he gets the blame.
McConnell knows how to count and he knows how to run a Chamber. The problem remains that Boehner doesn't know how to do either of those things. Though I am still wondering if there will be another attempt at a palace coup against him in January.
what precisely actually changed from two weeks ago is hard to say, other than that it'll be easier for congressional republicans to do nothing than it was previously. I mean, they just re-elected the guy who said that his first legislative priority was winning the next presidential election
Pluto was a planet and I'll never forget
Which I mean, fine, whatever. If that's what it takes. But it's a shame that they just wasted 4 years because getting all the credit for doing their jobs is more important than actually just doing their job.
But that's not going to happen.
They'll just try to push bills they know will never clear Obama, and they can't override, and then in the 2016 election try cry that it's not their fault, and blame the democrats for obstruction.
It'll be harder to pin that complaint on Hillary, which is why we also will never hear the end of Benghazi for the next two years.
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They're geese
They do. Republicans get to write and pass bills they like.
The president gets to veto bills he doesn't and sign ones he can get on board with.
This is how it's supposed to work.
The problem I foresee is the tendency of people of all walks of life to unabashedly succumb to the fallacy of false equivalence.
Because Reid really went too far with his stance against political minority rights while he helmed the Senate. And he's a terrible person, but that's just a side point.
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Because rolling back civil rights for some large portion of the citizenry is totes the same as (not) giving some people tax breaks. Really.
What exactly did Reid do to kill minority rights in the Senate again?
He should have killed the filibuster years ago honestly and he didn't/ He waited 2 damn year to kill it for appointments when the GOP said over and over we'll never let you fill the federal courts.
Reid gave too much to a minority that wanted nothing but to grind the government to a halt.
Go ahead nuke the filibuster and pass all the garbage in the world through the Senate. that just gives Obama perfect political cover to veto all of it. Or your party could behave like people who actually want the country to function and strike some deals. Vetoing bipartisan bills will be much more politically costly for Obama and the Dems
I can hope, but McConnell isn't that foolhardy.
He put limitations on amendments. Though mostly in response to amendment proposals becoming endless parliamentary delay tactics in order to eat up the calendar.
This is categorically ridiculous.
By that same metric if McConnell becomes majority leader it'll prove the republicans aren't serious either as he was far too belligerent about undermining congressional procedure and governance.
His screeds against te president were absolutely beyond the pale.
Or wait that's not how it works.
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Should the repubs start being reasonable (proper compromising, no repeated Obamacare repeals etc.) the vast majority of Americans will see "Democrats in the senate = nothing getting done, democrats out of the senate= things get done" and suddenly the GOP has a advantage in 2016. So strategically its a win-win-win for the Repubs (Repubs looks good, they can take credit for the country getting going again, democrats looks bad).
Now I will not be surprised that this is all talk and its business as usual from one end of the GOP to the other, these are all words we have heard before. And I wouldn't be surprised if Cruz the Canadian decides to go on another crusade with the other "true believers".
Cruz has no real power in the Senate.
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You can only amend bills into the ground and only prevent so many bills from even coming to the floor for debate (never mind a vote) before your opposition begins to doubt your sincerity in your 'participation' in the process.
chair to Creation and then suplex the Void.
So if the Democrats elect as minority leader someone who so grievously violated minority rights by eliminating the filibuster in some specific cases, the GOP will nuke the filibuster in its entirety, but that's totes not a violation of anything?
To be clear I think the filibuster is awful, regardless of who has the majority, but your train of thought here is laughably partisan.